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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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Old 06-23-2012, 07:11 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Drove the 2013 Lexus GS350 AWD

A few points:
. The car is much improved vs previous generation
. The interior ergonomics is just right for me
. Navigation screen is huge and much better navigation than on BMW
. Luxurious interior, great use of leather and beautiful stitching
. Exterior styling a bit more aggressive on the front, looks better live than in pictures
. Quiet until you step on the throttle then beautiful music
. The ride is smooth and controlled and sporty
. Steering feel is now better than BMW 5 series, very responsive and true
. Transmission shifts very quickly but could be better
. I has a dip stick
. IT DOES NOT HAVE RFTs
. It has a spare tire and tools to change a tire

I definitely could see myself buying this car over the BMW, it is moving in a direction of sportiness and is now a much better competitor against the 5 series. We will see when I am in the market again in a few years.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:57 PM
dontay dontay is offline
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I think if we are talking about performance to value the Hyundai Genesis 5.0 r spec is a better alternative then the GS350.
429 horsepower 5.0 liter V8. You can probably get it for 46k or so.
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:58 PM
dontay dontay is offline
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It looks better then the GS IMO
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:07 PM
TheRox TheRox is offline
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GS drives better.

Only issue with GS is that it is not as refined, the gearbox and engine are outdated (I"m sure Lexus will address this soon)...and then a lot of people like the feel and ownership experience of a BMW.



Kind of like the same argument with AUdi....its a nice car, but its not a BMW or a Mercedes. It seems ignorant, but such is the handywork of MBA's...you gotta have a BMW. Haha.


GS is a good car. Genesis is not in the same class.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:28 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
GS drives better.

Only issue with GS is that it is not as refined, the gearbox and engine are outdated (I"m sure Lexus will address this soon)...and then a lot of people like the feel and ownership experience of a BMW.



Kind of like the same argument with AUdi....its a nice car, but its not a BMW or a Mercedes. It seems ignorant, but such is the handywork of MBA's...you gotta have a BMW. Haha.


GS is a good car. Genesis is not in the same class.
As Lexus refines this car and the "sportiness" of their brand, perception will change. 10 -15 years. I got the impression they have been humbled by their inability to compete with BMW and they have thrown down the gauntlet, let the games begin. We as consumers will benefit from this competition. I don't think I would feel any less prestige driving a Lexus vs a BMW as it stands right now. But then again, I am not a prestige guy, I like good cars. Drove my sons 2010 Jetta today as he was out of town, great little car.

Last edited by jammat; 06-23-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:31 PM
TheRox TheRox is offline
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Originally Posted by jammat View Post
As Lexus refines this car and the "sportiness" of their brand, perception will change. 10 -15 years. I got the impression they have been humbled by their inability to compete with BMW and they have thrown down the gauntlet, let the games begin. We as consumers will benefit from this competition. I don't think I would feel any less prestige driving a Lexus vs a BMW as it stands right now. But then again, I am not a prestige guy, I like good cars. Drove my sons 2010 Jetta today as he was out of town, great little car.
Competition is always welcome.


The GS is absolutely awesome, even the last generation was a good car. And don't forget, reliable. That means something if you have a family member on the road in a car. That and safety.

I liked their Lexux LS, I wonder if they can make that sporty.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:36 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
GS drives better.

Only issue with GS is that it is not as refined, the gearbox and engine are outdated (I"m sure Lexus will address this soon)...and then a lot of people like the feel and ownership experience of a BMW.



Kind of like the same argument with AUdi....its a nice car, but its not a BMW or a Mercedes. It seems ignorant, but such is the handywork of MBA's...you gotta have a BMW. Haha.


GS is a good car. Genesis is not in the same class.
What is your definition of refined? If you mean the transmission only then I agree, they will fix I am sure.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:42 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by TheRox View Post
Competition is always welcome.


The GS is absolutely awesome, even the last generation was a good car. And don't forget, reliable. That means something if you have a family member on the road in a car. That and safety.

I liked their Lexux LS, I wonder if they can make that sporty.
Rox, the LS is out of my price range, I thing you need to be in the over 400 per year to drive that.

Absolutely agree with you on the reliability side.

Am I a heretic, have I gone to the dark side? Competition is what made America great and so I embrace it. Lexus is nipping at the heel of BMW as we speak. This new GS is indeed impressive.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:04 PM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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There's only one bad part about Lexus--it's not a BMW.

I've had my share of crappy German cars (Benz is the worst that I've had next to Audi). I looked at Lexus before, and could not pull the trigger.

I looked at a new Lexus LS460 AWD which would have been about neck and neck MSRP wise with my 550. I didn't really like it enough to want to spend that kind of money on it.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:35 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by schnell525 View Post
There's only one bad part about Lexus--it's not a BMW.

I've had my share of crappy German cars (Benz is the worst that I've had next to Audi). I looked at Lexus before, and could not pull the trigger.

I looked at a new Lexus LS460 AWD which would have been about neck and neck MSRP wise with my 550. I didn't really like it enough to want to spend that kind of money on it.
LS is out of my league and so I did not look at it. like I said I think you have to be in the 400's per year to afford the LS, I am not.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:39 AM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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Jammat,

From my calcs, a 36 month lease 10k miles a year with 1k down should be around 1010 a month on an LS460 awd. You don't have to be in the 400's to get that car, nor a BMW. All the considerations required for the lease are in play, but that's rediculous income for this car as a requirement. Ride with G's numbers are off in terms of MF at least on BMW's MF.

If you want to buy it, yes it will be more costly. I'd rather lease and see what the future holds. What I can say is BMW is crushing them with their FS arm. I don' think its worth it.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:32 AM
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w5lx w5lx is offline
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Originally Posted by jammat View Post
A few points:
. The car is much improved vs previous generation
. The interior ergonomics is just right for me
. Navigation screen is huge and much better navigation than on BMW
. Luxurious interior, great use of leather and beautiful stitching
. Exterior styling a bit more aggressive on the front, looks better live than in pictures
. Quiet until you step on the throttle then beautiful music
. The ride is smooth and controlled and sporty
. Steering feel is now better than BMW 5 series, very responsive and true
. Transmission shifts very quickly but could be better
. I has a dip stick
. IT DOES NOT HAVE RFTs
. It has a spare tire and tools to change a tire
One of the major selling points for me was NO hesitation when you step on the throttle. When entering a freeway or need instant acceleration to make a lane change, you don't have that annoying hesitation when you put your foot into it. And they manage to deliver 306 H.P. without a turbo-charger. The acceleration is smooth and instantaneous and the handling is excellent for a 4-door sports sedan.

Last edited by w5lx; 06-24-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:42 AM
ksoze ksoze is offline
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GS is a good car. Genesis is not in the same class.
Economically and frills, true. But the R-Spec for the price performs pretty damn well, considering the car maker would not have even been considered in this conversation a few years ago.

Have you driven the R-spec? If not, it is worth it just see how much can bought if you are wiling to trade off some status and fresh cut flowers in the waiting room. It is NOT a BMW however and the steering is artificial, but it has some real giddy up and the interior can now stand with the premium brands.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:03 AM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by w5lx View Post
One of the major selling points for me was NO hesitation when you step on the throttle. When entering a freeway or need instant acceleration to make a lane change, you don't have that annoying hesitation when you put your foot into it. And they manage to deliver 306 H.P. without a turbo-charger. The acceleration is smooth and instantaneous and the handling is excellent for a 4-door sports sedan.
I should have included that point, I agree. The GS is now a strong competitor to the 5 series and I could see it being my next car. I think Lexus is moving in the right direction and they do not use those horrible RFTs. I think BMW needs to go back to "normal tires," or insist on major improvements from the suppliers of this inferior and expensive product.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:05 AM
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THe AWD version is by far the least sporty. Try the RWD, especially in FSport guise.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:17 AM
jammat jammat is offline
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THe AWD version is by far the least sporty. Try the RWD, especially in FSport guise.
Will check it out. Here I will only buy the AWD version since it would be my daily driver all year. When I retire to warmer non-snowbelt region, then RWD it is.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:44 AM
rikwynn rikwynn is offline
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You're Way off Point

First off Lexus = Toyota.
1. Toyota is dealing with multiple quality and safety issues today so its hardly accurate to say they are "moving in the right direction".
2. Toyota has already been caught removing a $1/car part to save money which ultimately made their cars unsafe.
3. Toyota has lost share as a result of these safety and quality issues (in addition to poor supply management which resulted from the tsunami).
4. BMW on the other hand is maybe the most successful car maker in the world right now by sales and profits.
5. BMW really dont care that you dont like their RFT tires. The switch to RFT tires allowed them to hit suspension and weight targets that they felt were needed. Also weight reduction was achieved.
6. Comparing the quality of the F10 and GS interior is just silly. The Japanese car screams cheap (exc for the leather dash cover) while the F10 interior is of very high quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammat View Post
I should have included that point, I agree. The GS is now a strong competitor to the 5 series and I could see it being my next car. I think Lexus is moving in the right direction and they do not use those horrible RFTs. I think BMW needs to go back to "normal tires," or insist on major improvements from the suppliers of this inferior and expensive product.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:01 AM
swajames swajames is offline
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First off Lexus = Toyota.
1. Toyota is dealing with multiple quality and safety issues today so its hardly accurate to say they are "moving in the right direction".

It's all relative. Even with a drop, Toyota quality remained high. Toyota and/or Lexus continue to outscore all German brands in every major quality survey.

2. Toyota has already been caught removing a $1/car part to save money which ultimately made their cars unsafe.

Wiser heads recognize that there was never an issue re unintended acceleration. Media driven storm in a tea cup that blew over as quickly as it arrived.

3. Toyota has lost share as a result of these safety and quality issues (in addition to poor supply management which resulted from the tsunami).

Your latter comment is appalling. The earthquake was devastating to Japan and to most of its manufacturers. There was no "poor supply management" - there was a disaster which impacted Toyota and others.

4. BMW on the other hand is maybe the most successful car maker in the world right now by sales and profits.

Prior 12 mth profits per Forbes: VW $21.5bn, Ford $20.2bn, GM $9.2bn, MB $7.3bn, Hyundai $6.9bn, BMW $6.8bn

Sales: Toyota $228.5bn, BMW $95.8bn
Market Cap: Toyota $147.9bn, BMW $61.2bn
Assets: Toyota $358.3bn, BMW $160bn

5. BMW really dont care that you dont like their RFT tires. The switch to RFT tires allowed them to hit suspension and weight targets that they felt were needed. Also weight reduction was achieved.

RFT's add plenty of mass. They are very heavy tires. There is little to no weight savings compared to a standard tire setup with a spare. More to the point, focusing on a few pounds of spare tire mass on a car that has ballooned at the high end to close to 4600lbs is nuts.

6. Comparing the quality of the F10 and GS interior is just silly. The Japanese car screams cheap (exc for the leather dash cover) while the F10 interior is of very high quality.

The GS interior is pretty much on a par with the F10.
See above.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:02 AM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by rikwynn View Post
First off Lexus = Toyota.
1. Toyota is dealing with multiple quality and safety issues today so its hardly accurate to say they are "moving in the right direction".
2. Toyota has already been caught removing a $1/car part to save money which ultimately made their cars unsafe.
3. Toyota has lost share as a result of these safety and quality issues (in addition to poor supply management which resulted from the tsunami).
4. BMW on the other hand is maybe the most successful car maker in the world right now by sales and profits.
5. BMW really dont care that you dont like their RFT tires. The switch to RFT tires allowed them to hit suspension and weight targets that they felt were needed. Also weight reduction was achieved.
6. Comparing the quality of the F10 and GS interior is just silly. The Japanese car screams cheap (exc for the leather dash cover) while the F10 interior is of very high quality.
So I should just sit in a corner and not say the RFTs are crappy? All car companies have had recalls and safety issues. What about BMW having to be shamed by Nightline into recalling the dangerous HPFP?

I think a lot of us on this board agree they do not care that we do not like RFTs, why else would they continue to put them on the cars with no option to opt out except to buy another brand.

Because they maybe the most successful car company now does not mean they will be that way forever and not listening to customers and being arrogant is the perfect formula to loose the top spot.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:08 AM
jammat jammat is offline
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See above.
I have no idea how Rikwynn could say what he said about the interior of the Lexus. BMW has just caught up with the Lexus in that department.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:49 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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To everyone his own, I do not care for any japanese car at the moment.
I totally agree about the subadequat tire experience the RFT types are giving.
My 540 Nm torque, but only 250 hp car is a RWD.
I put on a set of Michelins super sports 245 45 R18.
And love the ride.

In western europen surroundings, 250 hp is not really usable as it is.
I drive my car now and then in Germany at the max 155 mph it does, hmm that is not something comon and only occasional.
This car does it better than my former 5 series, is not as fast as the occasionally driven 911, but do I love the comfort..
Makes me wonder what all you high horsepowered cars in the states are being used for.
And why compare all these statistics with ugly looking other foreign cars.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:57 AM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sophisto View Post
To everyone his own, I do not care for any japanese car at the moment.
I totally agree about the subadequat tire experience the RFT types are giving.
My 540 Nm torque, but only 250 hp car is a RWD.
I put on a set of Michelins super sports 245 45 R18.
And love the ride.

In western europen surroundings, 250 hp is not really usable as it is.
I drive my car now and then in Germany at the max 155 mph it does, hmm that is not something comon and only occasional.
This car does it better than my former 5 series, is not as fast as the occasionally driven 911, but do I love the comfort..
Makes me wonder what all you high horsepowered cars in the states are being used for.
And why compare all these statistics with ugly looking other foreign cars.
I think a lot of people have just accepted the RFTs, I don't, they are crap and need to be improved. I am not one of those people who just accept crap, I call it out. Love the cars, hate the tires.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:58 PM
elitex elitex is offline
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Originally Posted by rikwynn View Post
First off Lexus = Toyota.
1. Toyota is dealing with multiple quality and safety issues today so its hardly accurate to say they are "moving in the right direction".
2. Toyota has already been caught removing a $1/car part to save money which ultimately made their cars unsafe.
3. Toyota has lost share as a result of these safety and quality issues (in addition to poor supply management which resulted from the tsunami).
4. BMW on the other hand is maybe the most successful car maker in the world right now by sales and profits.
5. BMW really dont care that you dont like their RFT tires. The switch to RFT tires allowed them to hit suspension and weight targets that they felt were needed. Also weight reduction was achieved.
6. Comparing the quality of the F10 and GS interior is just silly. The Japanese car screams cheap (exc for the leather dash cover) while the F10 interior is of very high quality.
Agreed. Lexus is nice, but it's no BMW. I think people are missing the point. This is coming from a person who's had nothing but Japanese cars. Japanese cars look very good on paper, especially when comparing to more expensive German cars.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:08 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Agreed. Lexus is nice, but it's no BMW. I think people are missing the point. This is coming from a person who's had nothing but Japanese cars. Japanese cars look very good on paper, especially when comparing to more expensive German cars.
Pretty much most of what he posted was BS...
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:09 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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Agreed. Lexus is nice, but it's no BMW. I think people are missing the point. This is coming from a person who's had nothing but Japanese cars. Japanese cars look very good on paper, especially when comparing to more expensive German cars.
+1. I think it's so interesting how so many BMW owners on these forums rave about other brands' new models. Whether it's Audi, Lexus or something else, they all think the new models are beautiful, great driving, whatever. Let's see how many actually leave BMW and go elsewhere -- I hope they do and then report back after a year or so. If they love these other cars and think them worthy, more so than the BMW, then please, instead of continuing to complain, go buy one and be happy.
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