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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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  #101  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:10 PM
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Same wheelbase as the q5. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Macan

Renember that platform sharing is very common these days (and very necessary). Lots of important differences and it's really not worth worrying about
Ahh. Oh well, Audi is a top brand in its own right so Porsche engineering on top of Audi's isn't so bad I guess. I guess a well equipped Porsche going for $65K (a lot less if you equip it less, mid $50's even) with 340 HP and apparently "911 of SUV'S" dynamics has to have a platform shared with something.
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Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #102  
Old 07-30-2014, 12:07 AM
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.... Just priced out the Macan S. The way I want it comes out to $62K, and that was even being generous with the options (bits like alcantara headliner, Porsche crest, painted Porsche wheel crest, some other interior/exterior aesthetics, PASM, Tech and Premium Packages, etc.) I could cut back a little without sacrificing much if I want.

Beauty is that all that comes WITHOUT a sunroof. For once Porsche's nickel-and-diming you on every little thing works for me.

The price got me excited enough for what I get that after all this miserable revelation of what I can't truly "fit" in, that I thought to myself I'd run to a dealer right now and pay cash up front (not that they'd have inventory of it, but you get the point). I bet the car will hold its value well (like every other Porsche aside from the Cayenne, who was a little soft last generation but maybe this generation holds better).

Then I tried giving it some time, and remembered what I currently drive. And then looked at pictures of what is still a Crossover/small SUV, albeit as nice as you'll ever find one. The F10 M Sport is a sexy car that exudes a certain sporty stateliness. I'm apprehensive that the Macan speaks a language as strong to me. I then showed my girl pictures of it for my ultimate "auto layman test", of which she initially reacted very positively at the front (typical), but was turned off at the back and sides, saying it looks homely and "dorky", like a typical family SUV.

There's always the M3 Sedan, but even that has its own apprehensions. Going from an F10 to an F30 is still going from an F10 to an F30, even if that particular F30 blows the F10 out of the water in mechanical engineering and has slightly more extraverted/exotic body cladding. The F30 still has that horrible interior on a car that costs upwards of $75K. A tough pill to swallow for someone like me, especially used to what I'm used to.

I started questioning whether I'd look back at and admire a Macan as much as I do my F10 when I walk away or toward is. I find that almost impossible, though in some pictures the Macan does look pretty stunning, though the nature of it is totally something that was off my radar. Or will I toward an F30 for that matter. I KNOW an M3 would turn me "on" when I look at it, but more than a basic M Sport F10? Perhaps, but it's a close one.

Fact remains, I'm still limited to those two cars and have little other, if any options otherwise, in the high-end space. Maybe I'll just get a used Van and call it a day until one day I could fathom budgeting for a new M6 GC, which isn't completely accommodating itself, but close to as good as it gets in this space.
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #103  
Old 07-30-2014, 12:29 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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Well take in consideration the Macan is a VAG Modular Querbaukasten product, the big volume of this car is sold as a Volkswagen Tiguan FWD SUV.
A tipical family container. Even in Porsche disquise it still will have its roots visible. Maybe look up a Volkswagen Passat, a lot more car, not a SUV, roomy and top car from the VAG stables without the overpricing by the Audi or Porsche labels.
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  #104  
Old 07-30-2014, 12:56 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Well take in consideration the Macan is a VAG Modular Querbaukasten product, the big volume of this car is sold as a Volkswagen Tiguan FWD SUV.
A tipical family container. Even in Porsche disquise it still will have its roots visible. Maybe look up a Volkswagen Passat, a lot more car, not a SUV, roomy and top car from the VAG stables without the overpricing by the Audi or Porsche labels.

The Macan is based on the mlb platform, not the mqb that underpins the golf and tiguan. But "platform" in this case just means some of the safety cell engineering and chassis hard points anyway. Porsche has its own interior, suspension, engines, etc. It seems that whenever a vag product comes up, someone always reduces it to "just a golf, Jetta or passat". It's similar to telling someone to buy a mini instead of a 5 series. I personally have no interest in any small SUV and could care less but let's be a bit more fair to non bmws here.
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  #105  
Old 07-30-2014, 04:38 AM
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Lol. You guys and your oversized Mini Coopers!

I've been reading up on the Macan. Seems thoroughly Porsche-esque via its perfection in execution in a segment. Many consider it the first Crossover that actually has a "want" factor (goes without saying, Crossovers are the lamest segment out there, the Macan actually brought balls into it).

What's impressive to me is the power train. I had no idea it was an all new motor, I thought it was a tweaked carryover. The only thing I'm not crazy about is it being a V6, as V6's are typically kind of a boring idea to me, especially when I6's a Flat 6's are so damn impressive and interesting. BUT, I didn't know it was a torque heavy TT V6 engineered by Porsche in that thing! That motor must be amazing and such a trip in a car like that. One thing I didn't like about the 911 Carrera (Base) and Panamera V6 (and Ghibli TT V6 even) was lack of low-end, after being used to the torque monster that is the N55. The Macan appears to be similar in its focus on torque, though also shares a high redline where it's said to make strong power into (whereas the N55 redlines impressively high for a Turbo motor, but runs out of breath way before redline.... curious how the TT V6 in the Porsche compares in that regard).

The Macan certainly makes most sense to me right now, aside from the fact that it'll lease terribly, so I'd have no choice but to buy it, which puts some major faith into its resale factor. I just have to really get more personal with them and see if I can morph into a guy that can fall head over heels for "that type of car". I wouldn't consider it if it wasn't a Porsche that was so seemingly well put together.

On the other hand, I wonder if M3's will see discounts by this year. Not sure as they're selling every one they can get to dealers, before they even prep them currently (seems same with the Macan's). One thing I know I wouldn't do is pay full MSRP for an M3. I'd also like to know if anyone has experience in M3 depreciation rates. It appears it's one of the rare M's that truly holds its value well, as even 6 year old M3's are still going for sometimes even more than half their MSRP's.
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #106  
Old 07-30-2014, 08:03 AM
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Lol. You guys and your oversized Mini Coopers!
You meant us in our bourgeois Rolls Royces


Have you looked at any of the Jaguar or dare I say it, Cadillac offerings?
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  #107  
Old 07-30-2014, 08:57 AM
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So K-A, you're in need of headroom right? Here's your solution! 1963 Caddy Fleetwood. You know back then, Fleetwood had the trim-line specific "bubble" hardtop for the wealthy clientele at the time who wore top hats while driving, Mad Men style!. C'mon, look, it's a classic in Jet Black with Crimson interior. Put some 20"-ers on that baby and you're ready to roll!
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  #108  
Old 07-30-2014, 09:38 AM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Lol. .......


The Macan certainly makes most sense to me right now, aside from the fact that it'll lease terribly, so I'd have no choice but to buy it, which puts some major faith into its resale factor.

.........

On the other hand, I wonder if M3's will see discounts by this year. ..... It appears it's one of the rare M's that truly holds its value well, as even 6 year old M3's are still going for sometimes even more than half their MSRP's.
As I might have mentioned in the past, I grew up in a family that worshiped Porsches, and I still have a romantic attachment to them. However, remembering my "challenging" Porsche sales and service experience (I drove a 911 Turbo for a number of years) vs. the excellent treatment I receive from BMW - gives me pause when I start thinking Porsche. Bottom line - if you harbor a case of Porsche fever -
"There Is No Substitute" as they say - go for it. Yes, you will pay top dollar - but Porsches cost more than BMWs to buy and to service - just the price of admission to the PCA. I word of caution - I would seriously consider leasing a new Porsche - especially a model just being introduced. Porsches depreciate. Alternatively - you might put Porsche depreciation to work for you, and investigate a lightly used 911.

New M3/M4 - I advise wait - my dealer has already offered me a good customer courtesy discount - however the discount situation will most likely improve by the end of the year. Lease vs. buy? - I like to hedge and I am guided by the old truism regarding BMWs - lease new - buy used. As we all know - first year BMW introductions can be dicey.
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  #109  
Old 07-30-2014, 12:24 PM
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-The M6 GRAN Coupe also came closest of any car in fitting me (thanks to CF roof). Again, I can't sit straight up in it, but it's the safest of any high end car I've found. My friend was shocked to see any air space above my head at all! So this is an option, though way out of what I'd want to spend. Unless CPO examples start to cross under $80's soon.


-BIG SURPRISE: PORSCHE MACAN. Barely even knew about this car. And I hate Crossovers. It's way nicer than the Cayenne, looks kind of like a big 911, SHOCKINGLY affordable in S trim, and with no moonroof (thankfully easy to get without one) provided the BEST headroom of any vehicle aside from the G. It was like a shining gift that came out of nowhere.
You missed the boat on the 6-series deals last month. All the 2014s are gone in Great LA area. 2015 has no programs on them yet.

Macan S. If you didn't order one few months ago, you are not getting one soon. I have a few Porsche contact that will let you know as soon as someone cancels. She had a base 55k car last week that was cancelled and sold within days.

PM me if you need some help.
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  #110  
Old 07-30-2014, 01:05 PM
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You missed the boat on the 6-series deals last month. All the 2014s are gone in Great LA area. 2015 has no programs on them yet.

One of the Denver BMW dealers had been advertising a 650 at $15K off list on the radio. I figured there must be some good programs on 2014 6ers going on.


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  #111  
Old 07-30-2014, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by demas View Post
You meant us in our bourgeois Rolls Royces


Have you looked at any of the Jaguar or dare I say it, Cadillac offerings?
Jaguar isn't really making anything I love, plus I'm not huge on their quality levels. Though I DO like Jaguar's current lineup and am not against getting one. I just know that nothing they have would give me any more room than the Germans anyway. Caddy is something I probably couldn't get myself to do. I was gonna check out the CTS but I'm sure it's pretty limited for me with a moonroof. The new Escalade might be the only choice I have for a next car though, at this point, and I'm wondering if that even has the headroom I'd expect it to (pretty much everything lets me down).

Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
So K-A, you're in need of headroom right? Here's your solution! 1963 Caddy Fleetwood. You know back then, Fleetwood had the trim-line specific "bubble" hardtop for the wealthy clientele at the time who wore top hats while driving, Mad Men style!. C'mon, look, it's a classic in Jet Black with Crimson interior. Put some 20"-ers on that baby and you're ready to roll!
You had me at "Mad Men". And it won't depreciate!

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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
As I might have mentioned in the past, I grew up in a family that worshiped Porsches, and I still have a romantic attachment to them. However, remembering my "challenging" Porsche sales and service experience (I drove a 911 Turbo for a number of years) vs. the excellent treatment I receive from BMW - gives me pause when I start thinking Porsche. Bottom line - if you harbor a case of Porsche fever -
"There Is No Substitute" as they say - go for it. Yes, you will pay top dollar - but Porsches cost more than BMWs to buy and to service - just the price of admission to the PCA. I word of caution - I would seriously consider leasing a new Porsche - especially a model just being introduced. Porsches depreciate. Alternatively - you might put Porsche depreciation to work for you, and investigate a lightly used 911.

New M3/M4 - I advise wait - my dealer has already offered me a good customer courtesy discount - however the discount situation will most likely improve by the end of the year. Lease vs. buy? - I like to hedge and I am guided by the old truism regarding BMWs - lease new - buy used. As we all know - first year BMW introductions can be dicey.
I'd say I have more 911 fever overall, but even a 911 is obviously a terrible bang for the buck for what I need. The Macan is something that would never be on my radar had it not been about this headroom debacle. When I saw it in the showroom and realized it was that "new non Cayenne Porsche SUV" I sat in it (with no moonroof) and was shocked that it had actually ample headroom (relative to most other cars). I figured it'd be about $80K or whatever Porsche's always go for, especially since it was an "S" model (which is the current "Base" model until they probably release a true "Base" model), and was floored when he said it was $59K. Only issue is that it's a Crossover still, even a nice Porsche one, and I've gotta get used to the thought of it. As a value and functional/fundamental car, it appears to be one of the bests on the road today (of course, factoring in the badge on the front as well, but it isn't even too necessary to).

I'm assuming the M3/M4 discount they quoted you is obviously light? Yeah, waiting is for sure. My lease is up on December 30th which puts me in the perfect date-repeated place to have a chance of scoring a great deal, as long as my homework is right. I'll be obviously hitting up Jon and some of the sponsors here as time nears, especially since an M3 is not a volume car, but don't think it's imperative yet since I doubt I'll be hearing of any good deals.

M3 the way I want it is priced in the $76K range. How low I can get it down will determine if I'll go that route.

As for new vs used, I agree. ONLY issue is that M3's lease horribly compared to like a $75K MSRP 5 Series. So I wonder if it's a better deal to lease. I dunno. If one has the liquid available, putting half down on an M3 might be smarter as it seems in 3-4 years you can make your downpayment back, therefore only paying like $700-ish a month for the car (pretending that you can score an M3 out the door for $70K-ish). Leases seem to run like over $1K with moderate drive-off on an M3 right now?

The Macan has a similar issue. It'll probably cost as much to lease a $62K Macan what it would to lease a $75K volume BMW? Also, Porsche's seem to have pretty strong resale from what I've seen? Panamera's are one of the only Luxury Sedans that don't tumble in value right away, 911's always hold strong value, I'm sure Caymans do. Only the Cayenne seems to get "normal car" depreciation. I guess with the Macan, whether it depreciates more Panamera-like or Cayenne-like is up in the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ae86pwr View Post
You missed the boat on the 6-series deals last month. All the 2014s are gone in Great LA area. 2015 has no programs on them yet.

Macan S. If you didn't order one few months ago, you are not getting one soon. I have a few Porsche contact that will let you know as soon as someone cancels. She had a base 55k car last week that was cancelled and sold within days.

PM me if you need some help.
Grr, I'd be super mad at everyone for not filling me in on the 6er remaining deals, but fact is, I have to miserably say, I can't fit comfortably in one anyway. An M6 GC with CF roof I CAN fit in comfortably enough, but unless someone's got an M6 GC that is around or under $80K....

Definitely please keep me updated on anything aggressive that you hear about re: M3's or M6's anyway though. I'd appreciate it.
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #112  
Old 07-30-2014, 01:33 PM
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Has anyone done an "F80 vs $65-$75K MSRP F10" thread yet?
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  #113  
Old 07-30-2014, 02:16 PM
Mark K Mark K is online now
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Yes, you will pay top dollar - but Porsches cost more than BMWs to buy and to service - just the price of admission to the PCA. I word of caution - I would seriously consider leasing a new Porsche - especially a model just being introduced. Porsches depreciate. Alternatively - you might put Porsche depreciation to work for you, and investigate a lightly used 911.
LOL. Cayenne, Macan, Panamera, 911 ... just confirming the truth in what, I very much hope, might become my new signature this fall: "I am too poor to own a Porsche so I bought a Cayman."

By the way, personally tested result with my behind in the Sport seat: Cayman (without moonroof) has 3" more headroom than E92 with moonroof. That's A LOT. Besides, it is the best driving non-Porsche that Porsche builds - which then leaves 911 as a best driving Porsche that Porsche builds

I have your same problem - fortunately, it becomes huge only with helmet on. I do brush the moonroof in my E92 with my (short) hair, though. Driving on a track with a helmet in improper driving position (have to incline the seat in order to fit and still have to drive hunched) gets old VERY fast. That and the weight are the main reason I will change the car this fall. Hopefully, everything will fall in place, Universe will cooperate and restrain itself from serving me nasty surprises and I will be able to get a Cayman I want to own.
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  #114  
Old 07-30-2014, 02:37 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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LOL. Cayenne, Macan, Panamera, 911 ... just confirming the truth in what, I very much hope, might become my new signature this fall: "I am too poor to own a Porsche so I bought a Cayman."

By the way, personally tested result with my behind in the Sport seat: Cayman (without moonroof) has 3" more headroom than E92 with moonroof. That's A LOT. Besides, it is the best driving non-Porsche that Porsche builds - which then leaves 911 as a best driving Porsche that Porsche builds

I have your same problem - fortunately, it becomes huge only with helmet on. I do brush the moonroof in my E92 with my (short) hair, though. Driving on a track with a helmet in improper driving position (have to incline the seat in order to fit and still have to drive hunched) gets old VERY fast. That and the weight are the main reason I will change the car this fall. Hopefully, everything will fall in place, Universe will cooperate and restrain itself from serving me nasty surprises and I will be able to get a Cayman I want to own.
Yeah, the Cayman is a surgical scalpel. I drove an "S" and it was very fun, though a little too small for my tastes. Beautiful car as well.

I re-sat in it yesterday, and go figure, headroom was too tight. The E92 with moonroof has HORRIBLE headroom indeed! Wow, I was shocked when I sat in that E92 M3 yesterday.

If I were to get an M3, I'd probably figure the only way I can get my money's worth out of such a scalpel in its own right is by taking it to a track. Since where I live I'd be forced to drive a car that costs what it costs because it's designed as a practical daily race car, in congested traffic, it's razor sharp handling suspension becoming only a nuisance as it jars and jolts whenever I go over these pothole riddled roads.

The issue is, since the M3 giving me as good of headroom as any premium car I've sat in gets (thanks to the CF roof and the F30 actually having MORE headroom than an F10 inherently, already) means that my head isn't naturally touching the roof.... just a bit under it, I doubt I could ever get a helmet on to fit in it.
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #115  
Old 07-30-2014, 11:55 PM
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Hey K-A, how many miles does your f10 have now? Also, be prepared for any possible "pull-ahead" offers from BMW any time now. I know your lease isn't up until Dec, but I suspect you will probably be able to turn it in earlier due to the pull-ahead offers that may come out. FYI...there has been a special 6-month pull-ahead offer from BMW. Unfortunately, 2013 f10's aren't included in this offer. It's quite a bummer since I also have a 2013 also maturing in Dec, but can't take advantage of this offer due to this limitation.

In any case, BMW will also waive your disposition/turn-in fee if you lease/buy another BMW, so as minor as this may be, it (along with the pull-ahead offer) may entice you to get into another BMW (m3 or 6 GC). :-)
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  #116  
Old 07-31-2014, 04:10 AM
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Hey K-A, how many miles does your f10 have now? Also, be prepared for any possible "pull-ahead" offers from BMW any time now. I know your lease isn't up until Dec, but I suspect you will probably be able to turn it in earlier due to the pull-ahead offers that may come out. FYI...there has been a special 6-month pull-ahead offer from BMW. Unfortunately, 2013 f10's aren't included in this offer. It's quite a bummer since I also have a 2013 also maturing in Dec, but can't take advantage of this offer due to this limitation.

In any case, BMW will also waive your disposition/turn-in fee if you lease/buy another BMW, so as minor as this may be, it (along with the pull-ahead offer) may entice you to get into another BMW (m3 or 6 GC). :-)
Hey Cal. I've actually just crossed 19k miles! Spreading it real thin here. Wow, I had no idea the 13 F10's weren't eligible for pull-ahead! Either way it probably wouldn't do me much good yet as M3 deals are lousy to non existent right now.
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  #117  
Old 07-31-2014, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
My take.

We had an E53 X5, followed by 3 E70's. They were all marvelous, sturdy as tanks, sporty handling, luxurious interiors. The last was my 2011 X5D with the full Sport Package treatment, including Multi Contour seats and those massive staggered 20" wheels (the rears were wider than Roseanne Barr's butt). There was never any illusion of it being a soccer-mom-mobile. In fact, while my wife loved our 3 previous X5's she hated the X5D. Part of it was the diesel fuel (she resented the fact that not every station carried diesel, and not every diesel nozzle fit in the tank). But she also hated the things I loved most: firm suspension (I had not opted for DHP), really firm, communicative steering, and unbelievably stout brakes. So she drove the F10 and I drove the X5D, and we were both as happy as clams.

I felt like a muy macho stud in an Armani suit every time I drove it.

I liked that E70 so much that I was appalled when the F15 debuted. It was just too darn different, and in a fine display of prejudice I decided on the spot that I hated it. But a funny thing happened last month. I was invited to a private Ultimate Drive evening at a high end restaurant, where the line up included an Alpina B7, several 6GC M Sports, and some amazingly tasty 6 Series Coupes and 'verts, including a Sakhir Orange one that was jaw-dropping. But one of the prettiest, sexiest BMW's that was there that eveing was an M Sport F15, with a beautiful gray exterior over a two-tone interior (Mineral over Ivory?). All of a sudden I found myself drooling over a car I'd promised I'd hate.

The moral: people can have a knee-jerk reaction to the F15. Some of the reasons may be valid, but some (like mine) may just be prejudice. Drive one - preferably with DHP - and form your own opinion.

One other option I'd explore is the Porsche Macan. You can build a really, really tasty version for $65,000 to $70,000. If you fit (and I bet you would, but there are no front and rear headroom measurements on the Porsche website), it would be one sporty, exclusive ride. Not sure how Porsche does with leasing these days, so that might be a deal killer. But the Macan is one sexy ride.
Going back to this post. Seems like you nailed it with the Macan.

At this point it seems that or the M3 are my closest "want" cars that can decently fit me. Another option is a sports car like a 991 with racing seats and/or stock seats bolted onto the frame. Not sure if I'd want to go through all that especially since thankfully the M3 would give me something close enough to fulfilling my semi "exotic"sports car desires. In person it really does have a presence that's way more "M" than "3" but maybe that's being wishful (I think it's genuinely true). It's just a lot of scratch for that downmarket interior (with stunning seats and bits here and there).
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #118  
Old 07-31-2014, 08:38 AM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
.....In person it really does have a presence that's way more "M" than "3" but maybe that's being wishful (I think it's genuinely true). It's just a lot of scratch for that downmarket interior (with stunning seats and bits here and there).
I have long considered one of the coolest aspects of an M3 is its "Q Ship" factor. Most people perceive an M to be just another BMW 3 series. In the wild Ms are largely ignored. If you are looking for "presence" - Porsche is in another league.

Regarding interiors, I appreciate the enhanced luxury fittings of the new generation M3/M4 - but ultimately they are just nice amenities and not essential. You pay a bunch of money in an M for engineering that is not readily apparent but enhances the driving experience.

I drive an M for the sheer love of the M driving experience.
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  #119  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
I have long considered one of the coolest aspects of an M3 is its "Q Ship" factor. Most people perceive an M to be just another BMW 3 series. In the wild Ms are largely ignored. If you are looking for "presence" - Porsche is in another league.

Regarding interiors, I appreciate the enhanced luxury fittings of the new generation M3/M4 - but ultimately they are just nice amenities and not essential. You pay a bunch of money in an M for engineering that is not readily apparent but enhances the driving experience.

I drive an M for the sheer love of the M driving experience.
I'm really going back and forth between which car I want to put as my #1 choice for now, between M3 and Macan.

What MIGHT have clinched it (for now) for the Macan is that Porsche just introduced a SportDesign body kit for it, which makes it look ridiculously mean and dynamic IMO. I priced one out the way I want it for $64K. The same as my F10, though it'll lease exceptionally higher and I doubt I could get the same discount I got on the 5er.

It's probably because I focus on the details so much that the F80 had such a powerful presence to me. I can see others just dismissing it as any other 3. To me, it makes the F10 M5 look almost boring for an "M" car in comparison, and "too similar to the regular F10" as the F80 has almost entirely new body panels all around, except for the doors, greenhouse, trunk and lights. But again, you'd have to pay attention to truly notice them.

The Porsche I agree will have more presence. Though the Macan being an entry level Crossover version is why I wonder what might carry that stronger, between it and the M3. Being that the Macan does look more "Porsche" than the Cayenne (and looks more expensive, IMO), I could see it taking the presence cake. Though, I'm assuming they'll be everywhere in due time (of course, the 3 is the king of premium ubiquity), though Porsche as a whole will always be a comparatively more "exclusive" brand and with a SportDesign package, a Macan would really stand out.

I guess pricing/discounts between these two brand spanking new cars that are so in demand currently that they aren't being dealt, could be a clincher. Though, the Macan is of course over $12K cheaper by MSRP the way I've optioned both.
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #120  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:27 AM
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Who cares about "presence".

Drive whatever you prefer based on your acceptance of it's design, quality, handling, features, and comfort.

What others think is irrelevant.
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  #121  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Who cares about "presence".

Drive whatever you prefer based on your acceptance of it's design, quality, handling, features, and comfort.

What others think is irrelevant.

With attitudes like this, we'll all be driving Hyundai's before we know it.

That said, K-A have you sat in an Equus?
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  #122  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:04 PM
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If Hyundai can make a sedan that meets my design, quality, handling, feature, and comfort requirements, and for less money than BMW, I'll buy it.
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  #123  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Who cares about "presence".

Drive whatever you prefer based on your acceptance of it's design, quality, handling, features, and comfort.

What others think is irrelevant.
"Presence" to me is defined BY me. How I feel when I walk up to the car. I'm as picky as it gets when it comes to cars, so if the CAR impresses me, that's all I need. When I walk up to my F10, I feel good, it stirs my emotions in a good way, makes me feel a type of way. If I can't admire my car and its presence when I walk up to it, then it's a waste of money, i.e I might as well just get a Hyundai or Honda Accord, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
With attitudes like this, we'll all be driving Hyundai's before we know it.

That said, K-A have you sat in an Equus?
The Genesis was definitely not for me. Felt more like a gussied up Accord rather than a gussied down BMW. The Equus had a nice interior, but I still got that "imitation" vibe from it. Little details didn't feel so high quality and elegant to me. Interior of the Equus isn't the issue though, I'd be more than happy to drive it for many utilitarian, careless miles, but it's the exterior. The thing is just the antithesis to sexy for me.

But again, I'm not playing with many choices here. The Genesis was out when I sat in it anyway 'cause the sunroof cramped things down too much. Not sure how the Equus would fare.
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  #124  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
"Presence" to me is defined BY me. How I feel when I walk up to the car. I'm as picky as it gets when it comes to cars, so if the CAR impresses me, that's all I need. When I walk up to my F10, I feel good, it stirs my emotions in a good way, makes me feel a type of way. If I can't admire my car and its presence when I walk up to it, then it's a waste of money, i.e I might as well just get a Hyundai or Honda Accord, etc.
...
In that context, I can't agree more.
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  #125  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:37 PM
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Granted the way I've equipped it isn't quite as nice, this is a general idea of what's really sold me on the Macan. The body cladding is the newly released (won't pop up on streets until probably after October) SportDesign kit, which is all me. The only thins I wouldn't order would be those sweet black wheels (too costly and I don't want 21's), instead I'd probably pick the silver multi-spoke 20's (would've went 19's, which are free, but might be too small and ruin the effect of the Sport Kit).

Also, I wouldn't have a bike or its accompanying rack on the roof.

And unfortunately I don't know how he got the headlights with that cool dark background.

Maybe I'm on crazy pills, because I've never spoke like this about a Sport 'Ute, but to me it's absolutely stunning and up there with the 911 and Cayman as flawless Porsche designs after the "sort of/not really/meh" reactions to the Panamera and the improved yet bland current Cayenne.


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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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