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Old 01-17-2018, 08:36 AM
Der_Kommissar Der_Kommissar is offline
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$80 a year for CarPlay after the 1st year?

I've heard reports that BMW is moving to a subscription model for CarPlay- no cost up front, free first year, and then $80 a year in perpetuity. Personally, I see this as a very customer unfriendly move for a service that most other makers offer for free when they do offer it. I believe that leasers will pay a bit more across three years than they would have paid for the adding the $300 option for the service at the time of sale, and those of us who buy and hold will pay a lit more. Plus, they get to resell the service to every CPO buyer. Some may be happy with the free 1st year and quit, I suppose. What do you all think of this, and how do you sell this as improvement (to the buyer- it's clearly better for BMW) over the prior system?
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:43 AM
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I still don't see any value in CarPlay the way BMW implemented it. All my other cars have it for free and I still have no need for it in those. I might have used it for navigation once since the other cars don't have nav.
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Kommissar View Post
I've heard reports that BMW is moving to a subscription model for CarPlay- no cost up front, free first year, and then $80 a year in perpetuity. Personally, I see this as a very customer unfriendly move for a service that most other makers offer for free when they do offer it. I believe that leasers will pay a bit more across three years than they would have paid for the adding the $300 option for the service at the time of sale, and those of us who buy and hold will pay a lit more. Plus, they get to resell the service to every CPO buyer. Some may be happy with the free 1st year and quit, I suppose. What do you all think of this, and how do you sell this as improvement (to the buyer- it's clearly better for BMW) over the prior system?
I have not heard this, but lots of businesses are attemping to do "software as a service" now, which I really detest.

I am not subscribing to carplay yearly any more than I am going to pay yearly for a "subscription" to microsoft office (as an example).

As another example, I buy my cellphones outright, rather than pay 30-45 a month for leasing them, with the "get a new one every year trade in" that they push.

I do lease my cars though, but thats just because I like to get new cars every few years, and it works out to be a bit cheaper to me to get a new car every 3-4 years leasing, than buying them and selling them. Its expensive either way, but with the lease process its painless.

Where did you see this rumor?
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:57 AM
Der_Kommissar Der_Kommissar is offline
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Here's the link to the story. It's from a mostly reliable apple rumor site, but I believe the report is fact, based on announcements at the Detroit auto show...

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/16/bmw-c...based-pricing/

I think it's only cheaper for people who lease if they buy CarPlay after purchase as a software download. If you buy at the time of leasing, I would think it's rolled into the purchase price and you like pay something like 3 to 4 bucks a month for the privilege.

Last edited by Der_Kommissar; 01-17-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Kommissar View Post
I've heard reports that BMW is moving to a subscription model for CarPlay- no cost up front, free first year, and then $80 a year in perpetuity. Personally, I see this as a very customer unfriendly move for a service that most other makers offer for free when they do offer it. I believe that leasers will pay a bit more across three years than they would have paid for the adding the $300 option for the service at the time of sale, and those of us who buy and hold will pay a lit more. Plus, they get to resell the service to every CPO buyer. Some may be happy with the free 1st year and quit, I suppose. What do you all think of this, and how do you sell this as improvement (to the buyer- it's clearly better for BMW) over the prior system?
I have Car Play in my 330 and will never get it again in a BMW, its slow to respond and being the typical BMW v apple I had many issues. After about 3 months I stopped completely in using it. So if they want to charge to use it, then it better has more functions and works seamlessly.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:26 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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The article is pretty clear that instead of paying $300 up front, you get one free year and then $80/month.

So on a 3-year lease you'd pay $160, not $300.

If you have the car for 4-years, you'd pay $240.

It's not until year 5 that you would pay more than the $300 "lifetime."

Plus we as dealers won't have to add $240 to the invoice. It will be your choice at year 2. Just like Sat Radio.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:38 PM
Der_Kommissar Der_Kommissar is offline
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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you lease a car with CarPlay as an option, you never end up paying the full $300, correct? Just like the rest of the car, you pay for the portion you use based on the residual and based on the negotiated price. That price is likely to be closer to $150 spread out across monthly payments for 3 years than it is to be $300. Thus, under the new plan, a lessee of three years would pay about the same or possibly more depending on how they negotiated. Maybe this is the wrong way to think about it?

And that's just people leasing. Someone on a CPO would have paid essentially nothing for car play before, whether they use it or not. Now they would pay $80 a year as long as they own the car and want the service.

I agree that not charging up front will help you at the time of the sale because people tend to be insensitive to incremental costs, but the long term costs will be higher in most every use case, and BMW can continue to monetize CarPlay for the life of every car, which has a huge return for them. That has to be more profit than just the $300 times the take rate on the option.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
The article is pretty clear that instead of paying $300 up front, you get one free year and then $80/month.

So on a 3-year lease you'd pay $160, not $300.

If you have the car for 4-years, you'd pay $240.

It's not until year 5 that you would pay more than the $300 "lifetime."

Plus we as dealers won't have to add $240 to the invoice. It will be your choice at year 2. Just like Sat Radio.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
The article is pretty clear that instead of paying $300 up front, you get one free year and then $80/month.



So on a 3-year lease you'd pay $160, not $300.



If you have the car for 4-years, you'd pay $240.



It's not until year 5 that you would pay more than the $300 "lifetime."



Plus we as dealers won't have to add $240 to the invoice. It will be your choice at year 2. Just like Sat Radio.


Hypothetically if the 3 year lease residual is 58% during this time period customer would only pay for 42% of $300 which is $126 or $42 per year.

BMW is effectively doubling the price of CarPlay. I ordered for both my 2018’s as per a request from Ibiza’sWife, but it’s junk especially on the F83 non-touch screen. After the 1st year, no renewal for me in the future.

The Verge and AppleInsider also reported on this yesterday.
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:57 PM
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What’s next? $50 a year to use the heated seats? And oh you want to put gas in the car, that’s an extra $5 a week to unlock the gas filler door.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:29 PM
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What’s next? $50 a year to use the heated seats? And oh you want to put gas in the car, that’s an extra $5 a week to unlock the gas filler door.
Don't be surprised if both of those "features" are added to BMW automobiles in the near future. BMW's value proposition has gone from bad to worse to truly ugly...
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:08 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Why are most people OK with Sat Radio being subscription based but not Apple CarPlay?
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:14 PM
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$80 a year for CarPlay after the 1st year?

Because it’s a radio stream where as car play is just a connection. Just like Bluetooth streaming. In my opinion anyway. I just want to see my phone’s screen and apps on the main display.

For example: https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/17/comme...-subscription/
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:23 PM
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Or you could get it through BMW Assist for $300 and its good for I believe 15-20 years. We stopped ordering cars with Carplay from the factory months ago for this reason
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Why are most people OK with Sat Radio being subscription based but not Apple CarPlay?
Because Sat Radio is a subscription Service, this is a car feature. There is no additional effort on BMW's end.

The closest I can find in the market to this type of behavior is Cisco will now sell some customers a networking device for almost nothing, then license it by the port in the future. So you can install a 48 port switch and only pay for 12 ports until you need more.

The key difference here is that when Cisco does it, the price for the device+12 active ports is extremely cheap compared outright buying the entire device.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] of Bel Air View Post
Or you could get it through BMW Assist for $300 and its good for I believe 15-20 years. We stopped ordering cars with Carplay from the factory months ago for this reason


The ‘back door’ is generating aftermarket 143 CarPlay FSC Code:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=926721

Just like how F engines have recently been ‘cracked’ to allow flash tuning via OBDII, only a matter of time CarPlay subscription goes the same route.

MJB- the subscription renewal rate had to be low for Sirius, thus why it’s no cost factory installed in all vehicles now and 1st year service is free.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:42 PM
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$80 a year for CarPlay after the 1st year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieKnight View Post
Because Sat Radio is a subscription Service, this is a car feature. There is no additional effort on BMW's end.



The closest I can find in the market to this type of behavior is Cisco will now sell some customers a networking device for almost nothing, then license it by the port in the future. So you can install a 48 port switch and only pay for 12 ports until you need more.



The key difference here is that when Cisco does it, the price for the device+12 active ports is extremely cheap compared outright buying the entire device.


BMW was one of the 1st manufactures for wireless CarPlay, which had strong support from Apple. Wouldn’t be surprised if this never reaches market in 2019 due to pressure from Apple. Which Apple software these days is subscription based? Only iCloud and Apple Music, but similar to Sirius. BMW customers are affluent who are also core Apple customers, this decision by BMW NA doesn’t aid Apple market expansion of CarPlay.
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:09 PM
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Good points all. Thanks for helping me see it differently.

A personal note: As a diehard Android user, this is all "much a do about nothing" for me. Sour grapes ...

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] of Bel Air View Post
Or you could get it through BMW Assist for $300 and its good for I believe 15-20 years. We stopped ordering cars with Carplay from the factory months ago for this reason
Can you clarify please. So on newer models even without factory CarPlay, the needed hardware is all there and can be enabled via BMW Assist for $300?

If so, I wonder if that will go away when the yearly subscription model rolls out.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:15 PM
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Can you clarify please. So on newer models even without factory CarPlay, the needed hardware is all there and can be enabled via BMW Assist for $300?

If so, I wonder if that will go away when the yearly subscription model rolls out.
Need NBT EVO head unit for Carplay, which I dont think a 2016 340 has. You also need to have iDrive 5+ I think which I am virtually positive a 2016 3 series doesnt have, because my 2016 4 series DOES have NBT evo but still has idrive 4.
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaselboy View Post
Can you clarify please. So on newer models even without factory CarPlay, the needed hardware is all there and can be enabled via BMW Assist for $300?

If so, I wonder if that will go away when the yearly subscription model rolls out.


I know that 2018 models have CarPlay capability as my ED 2018 M4 cabrio was ordered with the option, but wasn’t accessible in Germany. Wasn’t until the VPC that CarPlay was activated via a FSC code.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:58 AM
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Thanks for the answers. I guess we will have to wait and see if the BMW Assist activation option goes away when or if this yearly fee kicks in.
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:49 AM
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It's an accounting/marketing ploy

I'm on the record calling this a red herring: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...09&postcount=7
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:40 PM
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CarPlay is more than just a one-time "hardware" feature. It is largely software. I would have to assume that the software is continually under development.

If the licensing price model means we will get more development and frequent updates, I'm o.k. with the change. I only lease for 3 years anyway, so I would save money too.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:12 AM
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$80 a year for CarPlay after the 1st year?

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CarPlay is more than just a one-time "hardware" feature. It is largely software. I would have to assume that the software is continually under development.



If the licensing price model means we will get more development and frequent updates, I'm o.k. with the change. I only lease for 3 years anyway, so I would save money too.


The software development and updates are done by Apple, not BMW.

BMW just put in the hardware to allow for the phone to put its display on the screen and give input via the wheel and buttons.

And you don’t save money because you lease due to only paying the usage amount of the $300 (and not the residual)

Last edited by Squeak; 01-20-2018 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:26 AM
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A personal note: As a diehard Android user, this is all "much a do about nothing" for me.
+1
You're in good company, as Android devices - especially those that are typically used with an automotive infotainment system - completely dominate the market with close to 90% share globally. Everything else including Apple's iOS devices are minor players.

BMW steadfastly refuses to implement Android Auto in iDrive. Personally, that doesn't matter to me as I don't use mobile computing and communication devices while in my F30.
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