The Official “Tip-In” / “Acceleration/Throttle Delay” Resolution Thread - Page 4 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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  #76  
Old 05-31-2013, 02:32 PM
MR Bulk MR Bulk is offline
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How and by who?
Desert BMW under warranty during annual service. I didn't make like I was all knowledgeable about TSBs or that I belonged to BMW forums or anything, just played dumb and said there's a drivability problem, hesitation from rest. They simply took it from there.

Good luck.
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  #77  
Old 05-31-2013, 03:22 PM
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How long ago was that? The reason that I ask is that I have had a similar dealer experience, but after some time, my adaptive software relearned and things got laggy again.
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  #78  
Old 05-31-2013, 03:32 PM
MR Bulk MR Bulk is offline
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How long ago was that? The reason that I ask is that I have had a similar dealer experience, but after some time, my adaptive software relearned and things got laggy again.
May 23, just last week. Yeah I have heard about the modification fading away over time, but it seems I saw that on slightly older threads and hoping this is a the "new" fix...
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  #79  
Old 05-31-2013, 03:36 PM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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I guess we will all need to wait and see. If it does come back, and you do a reset routine and it gets good again, I guess your dealer just did a reset to get rid of you
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  #80  
Old 05-31-2013, 06:35 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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I would say that beyond a certain point, throttle hesitation may become a more subjective perception that one can will oneself to be convinced is still present to a slight degree.

I had it big time on my non-turbo 6-cyl. 528i, got something done during service to the computer programming (several other things were reset on my car after I got it back, such as memory sears plus some iDrive settings, etc.), and now the lag is gone and it drives like a "regular car", although now that I've become so sensitized to the issue, even in my wife's Lexus I can make myself feel there is a slight hesitation if I drive it a certain way, etc., yet prior to this I always thought its throttle tip-in was okay and normal.


Weird.
Well, I don't think it's perception when you get horned by the car behind you when you try to merge into his lane and don't accelerate quick enough.

Happened to me a few times because the car just would not respond when you needed to move quick.
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  #81  
Old 05-31-2013, 07:11 PM
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Well, I don't think it's perception when you get horned by the car behind you when you try to merge into his lane and don't accelerate quick enough.

Happened to me a few times because the car just would not respond when you needed to move quick.
If you read my post you will see I am referring to post-service drivability of my car. I did indeed get into dangerous near-rear-end accidents before my car was reprogrammed.
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  #82  
Old 05-31-2013, 07:14 PM
MR Bulk MR Bulk is offline
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I guess we will all need to wait and see. If it does come back, and you do a reset routine and it gets good again, I guess your dealer just did a reset to get rid of you
Yeah it's what I thought at first but on the work order there appear to be BMW computer flash program numbers (I filed it away, I can go look at it later) like SI B12-17-12 or something like that. I gotta go look.
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  #83  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:03 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by MR Bulk View Post
If you read my post you will see I am referring to post-service drivability of my car. I did indeed get into dangerous near-rear-end accidents before my car was reprogrammed.
Yeah, you're right about being a little more sensitive on the lag. I now try to blip the gas pedal once in a while to see what kind of response I'll be getting if I needed to go fast. Try it out. You might be surprised.
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  #84  
Old 06-01-2013, 09:28 AM
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Nothing like driving a $70K car where the driver has to do a workaround on a primary control
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  #85  
Old 06-01-2013, 11:15 AM
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Yeah, you're right about being a little more sensitive on the lag. I now try to blip the gas pedal once in a while to see what kind of response I'll be getting if I needed to go fast. Try it out. You might be surprised.
Wow, that was exactly the kind of thing I caught myself doing when in starting off in tight situations. Sad we had to even resort to that.

"BMW, the ultimate workaround machine"...

I see the X cars (specifically the X1) are experiencing a similar issue.

Why not just be like Kia and Hyundai - they submitted prepared vehicles for EPA mileage testing to get the high ratings, then sold consumers the regular hotted-up versions. My nephew bought one last year and the mileage he got was nowhere near EPA estimates. Lo and behold, Hyundai began periodically sending him pre-loaded credit cards for the difference! A result of some class-action suit against the Korean carmakers. But hey, at least their cars jump when you Say to jump.
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  #86  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:02 PM
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Nothing like driving a $70K car where the driver has to do a workaround on a primary control
Sigh. Please don't remind me on the price...
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  #87  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:19 PM
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Wow, that was exactly the kind of thing I caught myself doing when in starting off in tight situations. Sad we had to even resort to that.

"BMW, the ultimate workaround machine"...

I see the X cars (specifically the X1) are experiencing a similar issue.

Why not just be like Kia and Hyundai - they submitted prepared vehicles for EPA mileage testing to get the high ratings, then sold consumers the regular hotted-up versions. My nephew bought one last year and the mileage he got was nowhere near EPA estimates. Lo and behold, Hyundai began periodically sending him pre-loaded credit cards for the difference! A result of some class-action suit against the Korean carmakers. But hey, at least their cars jump when you Say to jump.
Yep, I'm trying to get a feel on how should I floor the gas pedal to get a repeatable and predictable downshift. But so far, I've found that it seems that it has a mind of its own and I'm learning to drive the way it "likes".

Oh wait, the car is the machine and I'm the driver in control right?

The only thing interesting is that the adaptive feature seems to be real. The more frequent I blip the gas pedal, the more it seems to be willing to downshift. I'm going to continue to purposely blip the gas pedal to see if this "behavior" persists.

It's weird that my wife's X1 with the old six speed tranny does not have any issues close to this. That's why I'm even more sensitive to this issue.
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  #88  
Old 09-24-2013, 09:54 AM
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Do these SB's apply to a 2011 550?

I have the Acceleration/Throttle delay on mine and took it to the Stealer. He told me no problem found. He gave me a lame explanation that the engine and transmission have to make so many decisions when you press the throttle it has to determine what to do next, that is the reason for the delay. Hmmm a .75 second delay while computers that function in milliseconds process a few codes....Sounds like BS to me. No issues in Sport mode...What, the computer only becomes lazy in normal mode?

Before I escalate it to BMW as recommended, is there somewhere I can point the Service Advisor to?
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  #89  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:37 AM
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Do these SB's apply to a 2011 550?
No. This applies to early build 2011 528i's.
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  #90  
Old 09-24-2013, 02:39 PM
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BMW does not officially acknowledge this issue, and THEY are the one's who play dumb, but this is indeed a major SAFETY issue as outlined in Sonnie's initial post. I had EXACTLY that experience: in traffic, cruising along, need to switch lanes, look in side view and have ample room/time to do so, hit the gas pedal and go NOWHERE. the only BMW dealer i know of, that has actually come out and addressed this openly, is in NC (i spoke to them directly because my dealership in FL are really dumb, or just good at playing dumb). i believe through a software update they are addressing tip in issue, but the car can revert back for different reasons and the issue resurfaces. unbelievable that a company of this caliber, would make a car for this price, have a major safety concern such as this... and NO ONE is doing anything about it. I walked into the dealer with paperwork from all kinds of threads on this issue, and NOTHING. class action law suit is what's necessary to get them to take notice... whose in? $60K+ for this car, paid in full the day i bought it, and it hesitates and is downright sluggish at times? and, it has everything to do with the fuel consumption mechanism and what they did to make it legit get 23+ mpg by conserving at lower speeds.. I AM CERTAIN OF IT. its the first BMW i'm ever owned and needless to say, i'm astounded on every level, about this problem.
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  #91  
Old 09-24-2013, 02:45 PM
mldbayern mldbayern is offline
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workaround is absurd and completely unacceptable (although i tried it and it didn't work). do not let anyone tell you this issue does not apply to the 528i... IT DOES, and can be proven very easily. further, if - as a completely new BMW owner and totally green about any of this, was experience this issue enough to be able to describe it so well and find tons of forums and threads about it all over the internet... no one could tell me there's a known issue of this sort with the 535 that does not apply to the 528i. straight up bs. 2+ years later, let's tackle this. we would settle - or win - a legal battle! my guess is 'settle', as BMW would not want such publicity affecting their stock, affecting sales in general and particularly of 5 series. worse case, we all end up with new 5 series, or cash settlement. ready when you are.. it takes a village!
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  #92  
Old 09-24-2013, 09:01 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by jfandl View Post
Do these SB's apply to a 2011 550?

I have the Acceleration/Throttle delay on mine and took it to the Stealer. He told me no problem found. He gave me a lame explanation that the engine and transmission have to make so many decisions when you press the throttle it has to determine what to do next, that is the reason for the delay. Hmmm a .75 second delay while computers that function in milliseconds process a few codes....Sounds like BS to me. No issues in Sport mode...What, the computer only becomes lazy in normal mode?

Before I escalate it to BMW as recommended, is there somewhere I can point the Service Advisor to?
It's not the hardware (engine/transmission/computer). It's just the software programming in the Normal mode that is causing the delay. If it was hardware, the Sport mode would suffer from the same thing as well. I have no idea why they would want to program it that way other than to bump up the MPG figures.

It is definitely a safety issue because they delay might come at a wrong time when you need the acceleration on the spot. The worst thing is that it doesn't happen all the time, so you can't really anticipate it.
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  #93  
Old 09-24-2013, 11:00 PM
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No. This applies to early build 2011 528i's.
A definite yet uninformed answer; my 2013 528xi still has it, and it's getting worse all the time.
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  #94  
Old 09-25-2013, 12:19 AM
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A definite yet uninformed answer; my 2013 528xi still has it, and it's getting worse all the time.
I'm surprised that this issue still exists in your 2013. I thought only the early batches have the problem.
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  #95  
Old 09-25-2013, 01:01 AM
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Yeah... Plus, neither the "throttle reset" DYI method, nor installing the newest soft (supposedly addressing the issue) helps.

What's more, the hesitation is there even in Sport mode with manual shifting (which should exclude the SAT from the equation). Standing still and smashing the gas pedal to the floor with 1st gear engaged only increases revs after a second or so!

As a Roger Waters' fan, I can't resist paraphrasing his words from "Two Suns in the Sunset" ('cause I've had many moments like this in my F10 already):

Like the moment when the throt' lags
And you see that coming big truck
"Oh no!"
"[scream] Daddy, Daddy!"

You stretch the frozen moments with your fear.
And you'll never hear their voices
And you'll never see their faces
You have no recourse to the law anymore.


[...]

But we the F10 owners should still have a recourse to the law, right?!!!

ACT BMW, before it happens...
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:07 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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When did you do the software update? Maybe there is another update that is launched with the LCI?

Wonder if the LCI still has this issue?

For me, the "throttle reset" works, but the lag comes back after a few days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoldCAD View Post
Yeah... Plus, neither the "throttle reset" DYI method, nor installing the newest soft (supposedly addressing the issue) helps.

What's more, the hesitation is there even in Sport mode with manual shifting (which should exclude the SAT from the equation). Standing still and smashing the gas pedal to the floor with 1st gear engaged only increases revs after a second or so!

As a Roger Waters' fan, I can't help paraphrasing his words from "Two Suns in the Sunset" ('cause I've had many moments like this in my F10 already):

Like the moment when the throtth' lags
And you see that coming big truck
"Oh no!"
"[scream] Daddy, Daddy!"
You stretch the frozen moments with your fear.
And you'll never hear their voices
And you'll never see their faces
You have no recourse to the law anymore.


[...]

But we the F10 owners should still have a recourse to the law, right?!!!

ACT BMW, before it happens...
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  #97  
Old 09-25-2013, 03:32 AM
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I've had it programmed in June; my SA is aware that didn't help, and promised to keep me updated on any new bulletins etc. As for the LCI - no idea, but will try to get one for a test drive. I wonder whether it should also be a 528xi, or just any 2014 F10 with SAT?
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  #98  
Old 10-01-2013, 05:20 PM
Fastpaddler Fastpaddler is offline
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Yes.Switching to Sport mode works reportedly. But with the 2011 528i there is NO sport mode. I complained loudly last Fall(2012) and the dealer downloaded a "fix" from HQ in Ontario. It now shifts much more quickly, not as quick as the Sport Mode I tried on a 328I but quite acceptable. Previously, I would hit the pedal and get the question:"can I help you".Totally unsafe on busy autoroutes. Seem ok now and hopefully others are getting software re-programs with this sort-of fix.
AL
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  #99  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:21 PM
Michael540 Michael540 is offline
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Test drove a 2011 528i last weekend here in California.. and it has M/T sport mode. I am shopping a replacement for my E39 which was totaled in an accident last month. I had the hesitation happen on the test drive with the fleet manager in the right seat. He professed to not know why the car did that.. hesitated, then kicked us in the pants when 3 seconds later it launched itself into the intersection at 3/4 throttle. There is no way I would drive this car in stop and go traffic on the freeway. I would probably end up hitting the car in front at some point.

The fleet manager followed up with me this week, I sent him an email explaining what I discovered about this issue (thank you Bimmerfest) and let him know that this is the reason they lost a sale to a (former) long term BMW owner. Only when the dealers realize that they are losing SALES because of this issue will they do anything. He said he'd pass the email along to a group of people, so we will see if I get a response. At least this happened before I bought the car. There is no cooling off period on car sales in Calif., and frankly, trying to work the issue through the dealers and BMW-NA as the owner of a CPO would have been impossible.

Now that I'm reading this whole thread, it seems that the problem isn't just 2011 model year, and that it's not just 528's.. so I'm thinking it's goodbye BMW period.
What a waste. The E39 was the last of the best.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:02 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael540 View Post
Test drove a 2011 528i last weekend here in California.. and it has M/T sport mode. I am shopping a replacement for my E39 which was totaled in an accident last month. I had the hesitation happen on the test drive with the fleet manager in the right seat. He professed to not know why the car did that.. hesitated, then kicked us in the pants when 3 seconds later it launched itself into the intersection at 3/4 throttle. There is no way I would drive this car in stop and go traffic on the freeway. I would probably end up hitting the car in front at some point.

The fleet manager followed up with me this week, I sent him an email explaining what I discovered about this issue (thank you Bimmerfest) and let him know that this is the reason they lost a sale to a (former) long term BMW owner. Only when the dealers realize that they are losing SALES because of this issue will they do anything. He said he'd pass the email along to a group of people, so we will see if I get a response. At least this happened before I bought the car. There is no cooling off period on car sales in Calif., and frankly, trying to work the issue through the dealers and BMW-NA as the owner of a CPO would have been impossible.

Now that I'm reading this whole thread, it seems that the problem isn't just 2011 model year, and that it's not just 528's.. so I'm thinking it's goodbye BMW period.
What a waste. The E39 was the last of the best.
Well, there only so much the dealers can do. They can feedback to Bmw-NA, but it's Germany that designs and control the software (which is causing the problem)

You might want to try out the 2014s. They might have fixed the issue with the LCI.
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