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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #26  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:11 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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Have you ever spent time in one? The craftsmanship and the quality of the materials is on a completely different level. The cars are hand-built. Not worth the money to me, at all - but I do see how they are a different product.

Now - let's talk about people spending more than 80 large on a Cadillac Escalade.
Back in the late '80's or early '90's, GM did a study to determine which of their cars are bought by their most affluent customers. The assumption is that it would have been Cadillac's or Corvette's. Nope. Chevy and GMC Suburban's. What they found was that these people specifically needed the massive passenger, cargo, and towing capacity of the Suburban. They'd pack up the family, groceries, and luggage for a trip to their country/lake/beach house for the weekend, or use it to tow their horses, sailplane (glider), or boat.

So, GM figured if they up-scaled the Suburban those affluent customers would pay even more for their vehicles. A lot of people still consider any Cadillac to be a... well... a ghetto car. Hence, the GMC Denali was born. GM's come a long way in getting the interior of the Escalade and Denali up to snuff. The people who have them love them. These same people would look at a cramped X5 (an M-Sport xDrive 35d can hit an MSRP of $80k) and ask "WTF?"

Last edited by Autoputzer; 07-29-2016 at 01:13 PM.
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  #27  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:18 PM
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Not true at all. Status buyers go for Mercedes or Lexus. BMW buyers do expect a better handling from their and usually care less about interior quality, noise, sound system, status, etc.
For sure only a small percentage of BMW owners track their cars but day to day handling is the most important reason for choosing a BMW. Cheap leases being the second main reason.

And please leave the 320 alone. A lighter, better handling car with a small efficient engine makes a lot of sense. A true enthusiast can very well chose 320 over 340 due to the handling advantage.
You are sorely mistaken if you think people don't buy BMW, or any premium car, for status. It's not an accident that the F30 is less of an enthusiast car than the last generation--it's by design to gain more sales.
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Does anyone actually believe BMW drivers were all enthusiasts in the good old days? I drove my first BMW in mid-80s when the brand was seen much more as a status symbol than it is today.
Exactly. Before Lexus existed; before leasing brought higher end cars to the masses; at a time when Cadillac and Lincoln were truly at their low points; and when Audi was an upstart smeared by 60 Minutes; and before a fully-loaded Camry or Accord was *really* nice.
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  #28  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:44 PM
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BJ was right and then some. I remember him predicting 428 almost 7 years before it happened and being hugely ridiculed for it (as he should have been, mind). That ridicule coming from enthusiasts certainly didn't stop BMW from doing it anyway (creating 4 series) and then going ka-ching! big time.

BMW is going to have issue or two maybe 5-10 years down the line when it becomes completely obvious that they poached Ford, Toyota and Honda customers and became one in the process. Something that already happened in Europe and especially so in UK.
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  #29  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:54 PM
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One thing I think is generally true about BMW owners versus Mercedes owners - BMW people tend to like to do more things for themselves, while Merc people tend to prefer to have more things done for them. I've posted this before and had more than one Merc owner agree.


Maybe we should start a poll looking at how many Bimmerfesters would prefer to have BJ back. I'm not sure if it would stay up and not get deleted. Ive gotten some moderator pushback at least once when I've posted wondering about what got BJ banned.


sonofBJ, I say just tell him to setup another account with a new username. I think it's fair to say most posters would welcome him back.
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  #30  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:01 PM
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BJ was right and then some. I remember him predicting 428 almost 7 years before it happened and being hugely ridiculed for it (as he should have been, mind). That ridicule coming from enthusiasts certainly didn't stop BMW from doing it anyway (creating 4 series) and then going ka-ching! big time.

BMW is going to have issue or two maybe 5-10 years down the line when it becomes completely obvious that they poached Ford, Toyota and Honda customers and became one in the process. Something that already happened in Europe and especially so in UK.
Has BMW been the Ford/Toyota/Honda in UK and Europe for at least 20 years? If so it is likely that BMW will do OK 5-10 years down the road, since basically BMW is just bringing additional offerings from its worldwide lineups to the US.

The 2015 3-series versus 4-series is about 2:1 ratio, is that the same ratio for previous generations of 3-series sedan + coupe?
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  #31  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:16 PM
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Has BMW been the Ford/Toyota/Honda in UK and Europe for at least 20 years? If so it is likely that BMW will do OK 5-10 years down the road, since basically BMW is just bringing additional offerings from its worldwide lineups to the US.

The 2015 3-series versus 4-series is about 2:1 ratio, is that the same ratio for previous generations of 3-series sedan + coupe?
That's an interesting observation. In the past I'm pretty sure the ratio of sedans to coupes was closer to 3:1. Looks like the 4GC is having a significant effect on 4 Series sales.
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  #32  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:20 PM
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The 2015 3-series versus 4-series is about 2:1 ratio, is that the same ratio for previous generations of 3-series sedan + coupe?
Not sure where you are going with this. I meant to say we ridiculed BJ with his 428 shtick while insisting that his 328 cabrio should be called 428 because it brings more status and costs more. That is exactly what BMW did with next generation and profited nicely. If it were for enthusiasts, they would have sorely regretted that decision, that should tell you how many BMW customers are BMW or generally car enthusiasts.

As far as UK goes, 3 series became a first choice of company car squeezing out perennial winner Ford Mondeo as a top choice. Something a white Malibu used to be 15 years ago here. Imagine what status that brings to the owners of 3 series in UK. This happened about 5 years ago, so we will know better the consequences in about a decade - my best guess, don't have crystal ball with me
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  #33  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:31 PM
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Not sure where you are going with this. I meant to say we ridiculed BJ with his 428 shtick while insisting that his 328 cabrio should be called 428 because it brings more status and costs more. That is exactly what BMW did with next generation and profited nicely. If it were for enthusiasts, they would have sorely regretted that decision, that should tell you how many BMW customers are BMW or generally car enthusiasts.

As far as UK goes, 3 series became a first choice of company car squeezing out perennial winner Ford Mondeo as a top choice. Something a white Malibu used to be 15 years ago here. Imagine what status that brings to the owners of 3 series in UK. This happened about 5 years ago, so we will know better the consequences in about a decade - my best guess, don't have crystal ball with me
My guess is the G20 will move back toward ATS/Jaguar XE handling and the interior will move closer to the G11/12 7er (obviously not up to that level).
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  #34  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Not sure where you are going with this. I meant to say we ridiculed BJ with his 428 shtick while insisting that his 328 cabrio should be called 428 because it brings more status and costs more. That is exactly what BMW did with next generation and profited nicely. If it were for enthusiasts, they would have sorely regretted that decision, that should tell you how many BMW customers are BMW or generally car enthusiasts.

As far as UK goes, 3 series became a first choice of company car squeezing out perennial winner Ford Mondeo as a top choice. Something a white Malibu used to be 15 years ago here. Imagine what status that brings to the owners of 3 series in UK. This happened about 5 years ago, so we will know better the consequences in about a decade - my best guess, don't have crystal ball with me
In UK the 3-series and 5 series seems to project a status of junior/mid-level executive saloons(read company paid cars), and they are supposedly still very popular(esp. the 2.0i and 2.0d) for their business-like/no-bling/no-BS functionality(the German way?) and good handling.

As far as 4-series being a separate "series", it is unclear to me if calling the 4-series the same old 3-series coupe will hurt the coupe/GC sales or not. In other words, is the ka-ching due to the 4-series marketing lingo, or does the product(which can as well be labeled as 3-series coupe/GC) sell itself?
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  #35  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:51 PM
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My guess is the G20 will move back toward ATS/Jaguar XE handling and the interior will move closer to the G11/12 7er (obviously not up to that level).
My guess is that G20 will be a good handling E39.
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  #36  
Old 07-29-2016, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliCO View Post
Have you ever spent time in one? The craftsmanship and the quality of the materials is on a completely different level. The cars are hand-built. Not worth the money to me, at all - but I do see how they are a different product.

Now - let's talk about people spending more than 80 large on a Cadillac Escalade.
In fact I have and no one is spending a $300K premium for materials. They're spending it for what those materials represent - they've made it.
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  #37  
Old 07-29-2016, 04:16 PM
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Hi everyone! Some of you may remember me from as being an old school 'Fester before I kind of dropped off the map. I'm closing the door on my career with BMW, and I after five years with the brand, I have to let everyone know, BJ was right. We may have joked about it, and pretended that it's not true, but it is. The majority of BMW owners drive them for the status that it brings. They could care less about driving dynamics or how well the car goes into a corner, or how well it does on a track. All they care about is that badge on the back of the car, and the status that it brings them. It doesn't have to be anything too fancy, either. A 3 or 4 series does just as much as a 6 or 7 series. The 'enthusiast' is few and far between. We make up such a small percentage of the market, that I don't think we even count.

BJ, you were right. Everything you said was spot on. Not sure if you'll see this, but everything you said hit the nail right on the head. The majority of BMW buyers own these cars because of the status that it brings, and how it makes other people perceive them. I didn't want to admit it and I tried my best to deny it, but I can't anymore.


BJ, you were right.
Congratulations on your new awareness!

But what is your point?

Or, how is your new Ford/Toyota/etc. working out for you?

(As much as you would like to "pimp" a long, controversial thread like BJ was so successful at doing, you have to do better than this lame post.)

Perfect solution: buy stock in BMW because they have the marketing figured out.
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  #38  
Old 07-29-2016, 04:46 PM
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Among friends and family the allure of BMW is mainly the status of no-frill/business-like functionality, well-engineered chassis/engine/transmission, and capable handling in DD and twisties alike.

It is unclear if that is the kind of status that OP mentioned in post#1 or not, but at least that's my interpretation of status that a bimmer brings.

With this interpretation, the current 5 and 6 and 7 may not fit, nor the M aero kits, but the M cars(preferably the smaller ones) do fit.
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  #39  
Old 07-29-2016, 05:11 PM
Kafkaesque328 Kafkaesque328 is offline
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It is ridiculous that guy got banned. He was funny. We are all big boys and girls on here and we can take it. Bring back the Beej'
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  #40  
Old 07-29-2016, 05:41 PM
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I know BJ got "banned" one or twice, but I thought he always changed his sign in "name" a little so he always came back.
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  #41  
Old 07-29-2016, 05:50 PM
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I know BJ got "banned" one or twice, but I thought he always changed his sign in "name" a little so he always came back.
Personally, I think last time he got fed up with the moderators and decided he didn't care to try to come back. He also got banned on Bimmerpost around the same time. I've looked back at his posts on both forums and I can't find anything that would remotely lead to being banned. From my point of view it's inexplicable. Maybe he got into some disagreement via PM, though that doesn't seem particularly likely.
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  #42  
Old 07-29-2016, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Hi everyone! Some of you may remember me from as being an old school 'Fester before I kind of dropped off the map. I'm closing the door on my career with BMW, and I after five years with the brand, I have to let everyone know, BJ was right. We may have joked about it, and pretended that it's not true, but it is. The majority of BMW owners drive them for the status that it brings. They could care less about driving dynamics or how well the car goes into a corner, or how well it does on a track. All they care about is that badge on the back of the car, and the status that it brings them. It doesn't have to be anything too fancy, either. A 3 or 4 series does just as much as a 6 or 7 series. The 'enthusiast' is few and far between. We make up such a small percentage of the market, that I don't think we even count.

BJ, you were right. Everything you said was spot on. Not sure if you'll see this, but everything you said hit the nail right on the head. The majority of BMW buyers own these cars because of the status that it brings, and how it makes other people perceive them. I didn't want to admit it and I tried my best to deny it, but I can't anymore.


BJ, you were right.
I see no evidence to support the notion that the "majority of BMW buyers own these cars because of the status that it brings" vs the actual driving experience...but even if true, why would that make you "close the door on your career with BMW"?

I don't get the connection.

For what it's worth, I bought a BMW 2 series because I wanted a coupe that drove well, cost under 30 grand and got over 30 miles to the gallon. The 228i was clearly the best choice for me, but my point is I could care less why others made their purchase. Why do you?
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  #43  
Old 07-29-2016, 06:08 PM
sjpaul sjpaul is offline
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Maybe we should start a poll looking at how many Bimmerfesters would prefer to have BJ back. I'm not sure if it would stay up and not get deleted. Ive gotten some moderator pushback at least once when I've posted wondering about what got BJ banned.
Raises hand...

I'll sign the petition to bring back BJ, the guy brought a lot of levity to this place
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  #44  
Old 07-29-2016, 06:13 PM
sjpaul sjpaul is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
BJ, you were right. Everything you said was spot on. Not sure if you'll see this, but everything you said hit the nail right on the head. The majority of BMW buyers own these cars because of the status that it brings, and how it makes other people perceive them. I didn't want to admit it and I tried my best to deny it, but I can't anymore.


BJ, you were right.
This is certainly true. But ultimately its good for the brand. Enthusiasts alone don't pay the bills, but those status shoppers willing to pay a premium for the badge finance the development of really great cars.

There would be no ///M if BMW couldn't sell no-line 328i x-drive lease-specials to people who have no idea whether their engine is transverse or longitudinal.

Just ask Porsche why they developed the Cayenne.

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  #45  
Old 07-29-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Personally, I think last time he got fed up with the moderators and decided he didn't care to try to come back. He also got banned on Bimmerpost around the same time. I've looked back at his posts on both forums and I can't find anything that would remotely lead to being banned. From my point of view it's inexplicable. Maybe he got into some disagreement via PM, though that doesn't seem particularly likely.
The relevant posts might have been deleted long ago.
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  #46  
Old 07-29-2016, 07:17 PM
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The relevant posts might have been deleted long ago.
That's true. It would have been out of the "character" he had been most recently displaying, but it could have happened.

I'll just throw this out there real quick, I'm not some big defender of BJ. On more than one occasion I was highly critical of some of his antics. Even BJ v2. His second time around I just never saw him do anything ban worthy. That doesn't mean I couldn't have missed it.

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  #47  
Old 07-29-2016, 08:17 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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That's true. It would have been out of the "character" he had been most recently displaying, but it could have happened.

I'll just throw this out there real quick, I'm not some big defender of BJ. On more than one occasion I was highly critical of some of his antics. Even BJ v2. His second time around I just never saw him do anything ban worthy. That doesn't mean I couldn't have missed it.
My recollection was that around the time of the censorship there was an invitation to participate in BMW survey/focus groups, it might be related to that(or might be not).

Last edited by namelessman; 07-30-2016 at 01:12 AM.
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  #48  
Old 07-29-2016, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
That's true. It would have been out of the "character" he had been most recently displaying, but it could have happened.

I'll just throw this out there real quick, I'm not some big defender of BJ. On more than one occasion I was highly critical of some of his antics. Even BJ v2. His second time around I just never saw him do anything ban worthy. That doesn't mean I couldn't have missed it.
Here's what my dad told me tonight:

There was a poster (he doesn't want to name him) who lived in Canada who drove a white E90 who was always fighting with my father in the F30 forum. This poster put up a photo of his E90 and in the side view mirror it showed the guy's face. My dad zoomed in on the guy's face and made a comment that he looked like some famous singer or something. The Canada guy complained and he got banned.

I mentioned to my dad that people post about him sometimes and he laughted and said he misses the guys and to say hello but he is worried that it will get me banned which he doesn't want. He said he would be happy to come back but only if the moderators here said it was okay.
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  #49  
Old 07-29-2016, 09:01 PM
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First of all - who is BJ and why do I care about his opinion ???***128518;
When I got my car it was between the BMW 328i and the BMW 328i ***128521; as the other cars all sucked as far as the driving joy/interior/mpg. I also love the exterior shape of the F30.

That's why I bought a 328 but it def helps that it's a premium car. Why does one need to care about anyone else's opinion? It's your $$ spend it on a goat or spend it on a BMW.
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  #50  
Old 07-29-2016, 09:31 PM
CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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BJ, you were right.

Well, yeah....cost me a chunk o'change to fix too, not to mention the time involved.

Shoulda bought M3 right off the bat, but nooooooooo I had to have twin turbos......


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M Sport is vivid proof that BJ lives.

M Division attracts real BMW pilots, but is also widely bought by BJ personnel interested in Max Impression. Love the poseurs - they baby their rides - come end of lease, it's cherry pickin' time, if ever I part with what I got.
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