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Old 07-15-2019, 06:50 PM
bimmerbingo bimmerbingo is offline
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Brake fluid service interval for M Performance Brakes

I've had the M Performance Brake Kit installed close to one year ago and the car wants brake fluid service next month already. The Bentley service manual for my BMW 435i says brake fluid should be flushed every 24 months. Is the service interval shorter for the M Performance Brake Kit?

Also, should I go for OEM brake fluid or something like the Motul RBF 600? I'm not tracking the car, but I also want the best braking performance fitting my brake system.

I wonder what kind of brake fluid was put in when the dealer installed the M Performance brakes...
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bimmerbingo View Post
I've had the M Performance Brake Kit installed close to one year ago and the car wants brake fluid service next month already. The Bentley service manual for my BMW 435i says brake fluid should be flushed every 24 months. Is the service interval shorter for the M Performance Brake Kit?

Also, should I go for OEM brake fluid or something like the Motul RBF 600? I'm not tracking the car, but I also want the best braking performance fitting my brake system.

I wonder what kind of brake fluid was put in when the dealer installed the M Performance brakes...


Brake fluid is not dependent on brake set up. Change every 24 months, use ATE TYP200.


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Old 07-15-2019, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerbingo View Post
I've had the M Performance Brake Kit installed close to one year ago and the car wants brake fluid service next month already. The Bentley service manual for my BMW 435i says brake fluid should be flushed every 24 months. Is the service interval shorter for the M Performance Brake Kit?

Also, should I go for OEM brake fluid or something like the Motul RBF 600? I'm not tracking the car, but I also want the best braking performance fitting my brake system.

I wonder what kind of brake fluid was put in when the dealer installed the M Performance brakes...


Brake fluid is not dependent on brake set up. Change every 24 months, use ATE TYP200.


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So, ignore the brake fluid service due message for one year then? Why would the reminder come up one year early in my case, or is this the same for everyone else? Could it be that my dealer reused the same brake fluid when installing the performance brake kit and not resetting the service reminder? That would make more sense.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:45 AM
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Brake fluid service interval for M Performance Brakes

It probably came up because the tech didn’t reset the service indicator when your new brakes were installed. New fluid had to be used to fill the calipers.
As far is fluid goes, bmw requires a low viscosity fluid which helps with flow through the abs module on cold days. The two I know of are bmw and pentosin LV. All things being equal, brake fluid is brake fluid. Buy the lesser cost LV you can find. Motel is track fluid with a higher boiling point. Do you need that?


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Old 07-16-2019, 07:55 AM
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So, ignore the brake fluid service due message for one year then? Why would the reminder come up one year early in my case, or is this the same for everyone else? Could it be that my dealer reused the same brake fluid when installing the performance brake kit and not resetting the service reminder? That would make more sense.


Tech needs to reset service.
Use any DOT4 from reputable mfrs, but among Euro enthusiasts ATE TYP200 is most popular. As mentioned, Pentosin is good, BMW OE will do. You do not have specific fluid bcs you hace M brakes. If anything, they should dissipate heat faster.


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Old 07-16-2019, 08:56 AM
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So, ignore the brake fluid service due message for one year then? Why would the reminder come up one year early in my case, or is this the same for everyone else? Could it be that my dealer reused the same brake fluid when installing the performance brake kit and not resetting the service reminder? That would make more sense.
If you can't determine whether the dealer replaced the fluid or not my recommendation would be to assume the service is due now.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:57 AM
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No coding is required to reset your brake fluid reminder.
1. push on, to turn on ignition not car
2. press and hold the trip reset (after the service reminders go away)
3. release trip button and push until you see brake flush
4. press and hold
5. will ask if you want to reset
6. press and hold until it resets.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:50 AM
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So, ignore the brake fluid service due message for one year then? Why would the reminder come up one year early in my case, or is this the same for everyone else? Could it be that my dealer reused the same brake fluid when installing the performance brake kit and not resetting the service reminder? That would make more sense.
If you can't determine whether the dealer replaced the fluid or not my recommendation would be to assume the service is due now.
Yeah, then it's likely they didn't change the brake fluid When they installed the new brake kit. Cheap bastards... it was a $1300 job
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:58 AM
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For them to bleed the calipers it would of more than likely forced all the old fluid thru the system.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:03 PM
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Yeah, then it's likely they didn't change the brake fluid When they installed the new brake kit. Cheap bastards... it was a $1300 job


$1300? Just DIY man.


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Old 07-16-2019, 08:21 PM
bimmerbingo bimmerbingo is offline
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Yeah, then it's likely they didn't change the brake fluid When they installed the new brake kit. Cheap bastards... it was a $1300 job


$1300? Just DIY man.


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I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself but I am planning to flush my brake fluid and do the oil change, spark plugs, brake pads... the little things.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:50 PM
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Also, should I go for OEM brake fluid or something like Motul RBF 600?
Yes to the first, no to the second. RBF600 is entirely wrong for a purely street-driven BMW, for many reasons.

Quote:
I wonder what kind of brake fluid was put in when the dealer installed the M Performance brakes...
A BMW dealer would have used only OE (Genuine BMW) brake fluid, stocked by their parts department. There's nothing wrong with that--it's actually quite good fluid with a surprisingly high dry boiling point, apart from being correct for the car.

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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Use any DOT4 from reputable mfrs, but among Euro enthusiasts who don't know better ATE TYP200 is most popular.
Fixed that. Typ200 is a "no"--it's not a low-viscosity fluid and will hinder low-temperature response of the ABS and DSC systems.

As someone mentioned, two excellent choices are Genuine BMW and Pentosin DOT 4 LV. Another top-rank alternative is ATE SL.6 (their low-viscosity fluid).
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:14 PM
bimmerbingo bimmerbingo is offline
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Yes to the first, no to the second. RBF600 is entirely wrong for a purely street-driven BMW, for many reasons.
Can you please elaborate on this? I don't want to have regrets...
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:24 AM
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I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself but I am planning to flush my brake fluid and do the oil change, spark plugs, brake pads... the little things.


Of all those stuff, brake fluid is most complex. Rotors , pads? That is piece of cake.
Make sure you have good pressure pump. I use Schwaben and works great.


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Old 07-17-2019, 12:28 AM
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Yes to the first, no to the second. RBF600 is entirely wrong for a purely street-driven BMW, for many reasons.

A BMW dealer would have used only OE (Genuine BMW) brake fluid, stocked by their parts department. There's nothing wrong with that--it's actually quite good fluid with a surprisingly high dry boiling point, apart from being correct for the car.

Fixed that. Typ200 is a "no"--it's not a low-viscosity fluid and will hinder low-temperature response of the ABS and DSC systems.

As someone mentioned, two excellent choices are Genuine BMW and Pentosin DOT 4 LV. Another top-rank alternative is ATE SL.6 (their low-viscosity fluid).


Yeah SL6 is LV. Pentosin is major OE brake fluid supplier and would not be surprised that BMW brake fluid is Pentosin.
Still, my vote goes to ATE TYP200 due to dry and wet boiling point. How much it would hinder ABS and DSC is questionable, but understand reasons why to go LV too.


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Old 07-17-2019, 06:46 AM
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Can you please elaborate on this? I don't want to have regrets...
Just follow BMW's recommendation. There is a lot of mis-information and guessing to be found online.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:15 AM
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Yeah SL6 is LV. Pentosin is major OE brake fluid supplier and would not be surprised that BMW brake fluid is Pentosin.
Could well be, but is could as easily be Castrol React 4 LT or Shell DOT 4 ESL, since Shell is (and for many years, Castrol was) the partner-supplier of BMW-branded oil. Stands to reason they'd get the nod for the house-brand brake fluid, too. Regardless, they're all about the same in all respects...kinda have to be, to meet the relevant standards. So whichever is readily & cheaply available in one's area is the "best" choice.

Quote:
Still, my vote goes to ATE TYP200 due to dry and wet boiling point. How much it would hinder ABS and DSC is questionable, but understand reasons why to go LV too.
Here's the plain truth, for street use: The benefit of the higher BPs is zero; the detriment of non-LV fluid is non-zero. For an enthusiast wanting maximum overall performance from their brake system in the widest range of conditions, including ABS/DSC, any non-LV fluid is a worse choice than the OE/OEM fluid.

We who run (organize) BMW CCA driving schools have years of experience and data on this. OE BMW fluid holds up just fine under racetrack conditions, even for novice/low-intermediate students who tend to over-brake. Our technical inspection requirements don't even mandate the use of high-performance brake fluids. Stock is fine, as long as it's reasonably fresh.

So, if it's good enough for the track, it's more than good enough for the street, even for the most aggressive lunatic drivers. Unless one drives like a complete idiot--like driving down Pikes Peak with one foot on the brake--chances of boiling the stock fluid in ordinary use are virtually nil. So IMO an "upgrade" to something that raises BPs at the expense of other, more useful characteristics (viscosity) is a poor trade-off.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Yeah SL6 is LV. Pentosin is major OE brake fluid supplier and would not be surprised that BMW brake fluid is Pentosin.
Could well be, but is could as easily be Castrol React 4 LT or Shell DOT 4 ESL, since Shell is (and for many years, Castrol was) the partner-supplier of BMW-branded oil. Stands to reason they'd get the nod for the house-brand brake fluid, too. Regardless, they're all about the same in all respects...kinda have to be, to meet the relevant standards. So whichever is readily & cheaply available in one's area is the "best" choice.

Quote:
Still, my vote goes to ATE TYP200 due to dry and wet boiling point. How much it would hinder ABS and DSC is questionable, but understand reasons why to go LV too.
Here's the plain truth, for street use: The benefit of the higher BPs is zero; the detriment of non-LV fluid is non-zero. For an enthusiast wanting maximum overall performance from their brake system in the widest range of conditions, including ABS/DSC, any non-LV fluid is a worse choice than the OE/OEM fluid.

We who run (organize) BMW CCA driving schools have years of experience and data on this. OE BMW fluid holds up just fine under racetrack conditions, even for novice/low-intermediate students who tend to over-brake. Our technical inspection requirements don't even mandate the use of high-performance brake fluids. Stock is fine, as long as it's reasonably fresh.

So, if it's good enough for the track, it's more than good enough for the street, even for the most aggressive lunatic drivers. Unless one drives like a complete idiot--like driving down Pikes Peak with one foot on the brake--chances of boiling the stock fluid in ordinary use are virtually nil. So IMO an "upgrade" to something that raises BPs at the expense of other, more useful characteristics (viscosity) is a poor trade-off.
Excellent write-up, that's exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you!
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:36 AM
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Just follow BMW's recommendation. There is a lot of mis-information and guessing to be found online.
+1 and +200, respectively. But, to elaborate as requested:
  1. RBF600 is not a low-viscosity fluid and thus not ideal for ABS/DSC-equipped cars
  2. As just noted above, the boiling point of OE fluid is more than sufficient for even the most aggressive street use (provided you change it on schedule)
  3. Even the higher BP mattered, maintaining it requires more frequent changes than stock fluid. Generally speaking, the higher the dry BP, the more hygroscopic the fluid (meaning it absorbs water faster & should be changed more often)
  4. RBF600 costs ~$19/liter; Pentosin DOT 4 LV, etc. ~$13/l; and Genuine BMW fluid ~$11/l
Mainly, it's just overkill. Hell, it's overkill for most driving-school track-day cars. It's designed for race-prepped cars with heavily-upgraded brake systems that generate high peak temperatures, and/or much longer on-track driving stints than the typical 25-40 minute student session. For daily use, its only possible justification is "because racecar".
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:17 AM
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Brake fluid service interval for M Performance Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Could well be, but is could as easily be Castrol React 4 LT or Shell DOT 4 ESL, since Shell is (and for many years, Castrol was) the partner-supplier of BMW-branded oil. Stands to reason they'd get the nod for the house-brand brake fluid, too. Regardless, they're all about the same in all respects...kinda have to be, to meet the relevant standards. So whichever is readily & cheaply available in one's area is the "best" choice.



Here's the plain truth, for street use: The benefit of the higher BPs is zero; the detriment of non-LV fluid is non-zero. For an enthusiast wanting maximum overall performance from their brake system in the widest range of conditions, including ABS/DSC, any non-LV fluid is a worse choice than the OE/OEM fluid.



We who run (organize) BMW CCA driving schools have years of experience and data on this. OE BMW fluid holds up just fine under racetrack conditions, even for novice/low-intermediate students who tend to over-brake. Our technical inspection requirements don't even mandate the use of high-performance brake fluids. Stock is fine, as long as it's reasonably fresh.



So, if it's good enough for the track, it's more than good enough for the street, even for the most aggressive lunatic drivers. Unless one drives like a complete idiot--like driving down Pikes Peak with one foot on the brake--chances of boiling the stock fluid in ordinary use are virtually nil. So IMO an "upgrade" to something that raises BPs at the expense of other, more useful characteristics (viscosity) is a poor trade-off.


I agree with that about boiling point, especially on cars such as BMW with big brakes. More relevant when it comes to BP is on vehicles like I have now, a minivan with brakes that tend to fade immediately. Ok, I upgraded rotors and pads and fluid, but average person usually rides brakes in these vehicles. Best to observe this is on the Pikes Peak when people going down. Holy moly what kind of interesting events one could observe. Forest service had to install brake check point where they measure temperature of rotors. Now think about a decade old fluid in average Toyota Sienna. Track? What track? Average soccer mom going down I70 towards Denver will boil that fluid in no time


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Old 07-17-2019, 09:26 AM
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OE BMW fluid holds up just fine under racetrack conditions, even for novice/low-intermediate students who tend to over-brake. Our technical inspection requirements don't even mandate the use of high-performance brake fluids. Stock is fine, as long as it's reasonably fresh.
+1
My HPDE instructor mentioned exactly this. I've never encountered any issues during tech inspection using the OE brake fluid. The fluid just has to be 6 months old or newer.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:00 AM
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Best to observe this is on the Pikes Peak when people going down. Holy moly what kind of interesting events one could observe. Forest service had to install brake check point where they measure temperature of rotors. Now think about a decade old fluid in average Toyota Sienna. Track? What track? Average soccer mom going down I70 towards Denver will boil that fluid in no time
This is exactly the scenario I had in mind when I said "complete idiot"! (Close friends who traveled to Pikes Peak shared the checkpoint horror stories with me when they came home.)

Good luck pitching any particular brake fluid to that soccer mom--it would be an achievement to get her to change the fluid at all every few years. Which is pretty much the whole point here: Like most other fluid-change questions, what brand you use isn't half as important as just doing it often enough.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:21 AM
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This is exactly the scenario I had in mind when I said "complete idiot"! (Close friends who traveled to Pikes Peak shared the checkpoint horror stories with me when they came home.)



Good luck pitching any particular brake fluid to that soccer mom--it would be an achievement to get her to change the fluid at all every few years. Which is pretty much the whole point here: Like most other fluid-change questions, what brand you use isn't half as important as just doing it often enough.



Yeah, well these are specific forums. People who ask for advice here are not a problem. Like you said, any fluid that meets specs. will do. We tend to always find “better “ and that is good.
I ski twice a week. Seeing all kind of crap related to maintenance or overconfidence due to not understanding how vehicles work (this is where Subaru drivers are absolute champions). I saw peoples brake catching fire. There is a lot of strain on the vehicle going from Vail Pass to Denver for example. Interstate, relatively high speeds and huge loss of elevation in fairly short period of time.
One might argue that going downhill on Pikes Peak is less strain on brakes as speed is super slow since 3,000ft drops are all over.
When it comes to sharing road with others, always keep in mind that saying: never underestimate stupidity!


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Old 07-17-2019, 12:05 PM
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I grew up in the Denver area and this conversation brings back fond memories.

I remember driving in the mountians with friends of family and we'd start smelling the distinctive odor of overheated brakes. It then became a morbid game of trying to figure out which car around us was the one in trouble.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:12 PM
edycol edycol is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
I grew up in the Denver area and this conversation brings back fond memories.

I remember driving in the mountians with friends of family and we'd start smelling the distinctive odor of overheated brakes. It then became a morbid game of trying to figure out which car around us was the one in trouble.


Yeah, there is a lot of burnt odor on I70 going downhill.


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