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Old 03-01-2019, 12:48 AM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Is this fault code a sign the battery is going?

Hi, 2007 X5 3.0d with 170,000 km.

We've owned it for about 3.5 years and have not changed the battery in that time. No idea how old the battery is.

No sign of starting problems until this morning - my wife tried to start the car, accessory lights came on but otherwise dead when pushing start button. Nothing clicking or turning over. Called the NRMA (local Australian reputable mobile help fleet) and they came and the car started right away! Wife embarrassed. The tech does a battery check - he said it tested "ok", and seeing as it was now starting fine, didn't suggest replacing the battery (which would have cost AUD $450) and he could not see any other problems.

When I got home I used Carly to scan for fault codes and found a 009CCE fault code - "Drive passenger side mirror broken / Battery deep discharge". Tested both side mirrors - working fine. Cleared fault. Car is now running/starting fine.

I figure I have the option to replace the battery DIY and save some money if its probably due for a new battery anyway. They are on sale for 2 more days for AUD $272 down from AUD $363 which is a good price down here in Australia where everything is expensive.
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...ca/405566.html (and further specs here)

Should I grab a new battery on sale and hope thats the likely cause? From a little searching it sounds like this is one of the "weird" codes that can show up when your battery is starting to go.

Anything else I could try to isolate the problem? My wife drives it 90% of the time so I'm kind of keen to get in front of the problem rather than wait for it to die on her.

(I don't have a battery charger - I do have a handheld digital multimeter)

Otherwise running fine. Any help appreciated! Thanks, Pete
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:04 AM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Check voltage while engine running to make sure the alt is charging. Should be 14 up to 14.6v depending on temperature.
Note that number and then turn on defroster headlights seat heaters and see if it stays at that voltage. There will be a volt dip at first which is normal.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:14 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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FYI - The battery in the link you provided doesn’t look like an AGM based on the description.

Also, you need to have a shop program the new battery into the system so that charging parameters are adequate.




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Old 03-01-2019, 08:10 AM
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Replace the battery. It's a maintenance item.
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Old 03-01-2019, 12:47 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Thanks All!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
FYI - The battery in the link you provided doesn’t look like an AGM based on the description.
Also, you need to have a shop program the new battery into the system so that charging parameters are adequate.
Hmm ok - I had assumed it was AGM. Thanks.
So my model X5 (and I'm assuming everyone else's) has no stop/start tech when driving. Non AGM batteries seemed to be recommended as fine down here for my modal X5. Is a NON AGM battery fine - but will just last fewer years? Looks like AGM batteries down here are $650+, so I could probably get 2 NON AGMs for 1 AGM.

Also - I have the Carly app, so as far as I know I can register and recode with it from AGM to non AGM if needed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Replace the battery. It's a maintenance item.
Thanks ARD. Seared in my mind is how you called my DPF issues right at the start of a long ordeal - so I'm pretty inclined to just do whatever you say haha. Would you be ok with non AGM?
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:12 PM
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Yes, Carly can register a new battery. Also, you can monitor the battery voltage in the app.

When mine was 13.7v, it lasted another month or so before I got the battery discharge warning SES. It's an easy DIY replacement job that even me as a pencil pusher can do.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:25 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsindogg View Post
When mine was 13.7v, it lasted another month or so before I got the battery discharge warning SES. It's an easy DIY replacement job that even me as a pencil pusher can do.
Hmm interesting. Ok just went for a 40 min drive and kept an eye on the battery voltage parameter in Carly.

While cruising at highway speeds it hovered around 14.25-14.45v. If I turned on all demisters and lights it would dip into the 13's for a split second, then straight back to 14.3 or so.

While slowing down though in stop and start traffic it hovered down around 14.05-14.15v, and would dip down for a split second into the 13's when idling, then come back up to just above 14.

When I switched the ignition off - but kept Carly running, it showed 12.6v - then started dropping to 12.5v within 15 seconds.

So now reading more about voltages .... and those readings sound like they fall into the ''normal" range?

Starting to think maybe I'm just jumping at shadows here....

======

New Info: One other tidbit of information my wife has just offered up - when the car didn't start, the brake pedal felt rock hard and didn't feel like it could be pushed in prior to starting. She said it felt different to now when you put the foot on the brake to start, the pedal has some give in it before you press the start button and it successfully starts. Does that suggest any other potential problems? Brake switch or something?

.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:37 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Test your alt by running at idle and noting voltage. Then switch on defroster, headlights, fogs, blower high. It will dip a second but stabilize. It should be the same voltage after stabilizing. If not, your alt could be weak. Rev it to 2000 and see voltage increase, that means a winding or diode or the regulator could be dying.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:16 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Test your alt by running at idle and noting voltage.
stable at 14.35v-14.4v

Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Then switch on defroster, headlights, fogs, blower high. It will dip a second but stabilize. It should be the same voltage after stabilizing. If not, your alt could be weak.
did this - stabilized at 14.15v-14.20v.
Is that too much of a difference to the first figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
Rev it to 2000 and see voltage increase, that means a winding or diode or the regulator could be dying.
Rev to 2000 (with all lights/defroster etc on) and voltage decreased to stable around 14.0v - 14.05v.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:27 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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The stabilized dip at idle is not much but I don't have that happen on my x5.

You kept it at 2000 and it stayed at 14? Switch off things and see if it goes up if so maybe your brushes on the regulator aren't contacting well.

Usually a bad diode/winding means you can't make power at low rpm. It could be brushes too but that's harder to narrow down
Brushes skip at higher speeds when they're worn... But I'm just guessing here based on my past experiences with different cars

Btw I think that mirror code could have been what killed your battery, because things can get stuck and drain the battery but what I don't get is that the bmw would cut off power to everything when voltage goes low to save the battery. I only seen cases where comfort access handles that don't seem to shut off and somehow they bypass this protection? Do you have comfort access?

The brake pedal addition: that's vacuum assisted and supposed to hold vacuum when shut off but it can leak down of you let the car sit for a couple days, that's normal. It's not electrical... If it's still hard when engine is on, then that's an issue.

Last edited by robnitro; 03-01-2019 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU Pete View Post



Thanks ARD. Seared in my mind is how you called my DPF issues right at the start of a long ordeal - so I'm pretty inclined to just do whatever you say haha. Would you be ok with non AGM?
If Carly can program to a non-AGM, Id be OK

Surprised that AGM is that much there.... really?
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:43 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Yeah carly can do it. After you change the battery type make sure you go to register battery, hit read and double check it says 90ah (without agm) to be sure.
If you can post the hours listed below the mileage... It's the historical time the battery was at different percentages of charge.

Then you can click register.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:09 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Circling back around here to provide more info

Firstly - I didn't end up replacing the battery. I read on a thread elsewhere (may have been this one - Battery drain due to passenger mirror circuit) that if you lock the car after exiting, it forces the full shutdown/sleep process or something, rather than leaving the car to go to sleep itself after 10-15 minutes - and sometimes not properly going to sleep (?). Anyway - I figured we'd try locking the car on exit for a while and see if the battery issues continued. And guess what - since locking the car on exit from about 5 months ago, we've not had any more car not starting issues. Battery still going strong...

I'd almost forgotten about this lock-after-exiting quirk and then today noticed that the passenger side mirror is not operating up & down, its only going side to side. So am assuming one of the motors in there is faulty, or one of the little cogs is stuck.

Suddenly it feels obvious that the battery drain issue is related to the passenger side mirror (surprise! that was the fault code in the first post in the thread! haha) - has anyone had that mirror apart? any tips?

I'm nervous about pulling the mirror assembly out and breaking something / making it worse...

Pete

PS: The Carly App (iOS) seems to have updated and now my non Carly brand ODB wifi dongle is no longer working fully - just says "engine type cant be identified" when I try to check parameters. So I've ordered an official Carly Adapter. Seems like a pretty smart way to sell a bunch of official adapters
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Last edited by AU Pete; 06-09-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:50 PM
aloyouis aloyouis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU Pete View Post
Circling back around here to provide more info

Firstly - I didn't end up replacing the battery. I read on a thread elsewhere (may have been this one - Battery drain due to passenger mirror circuit) that if you lock the car after exiting, it forces the full shutdown/sleep process or something, rather than leaving the car to go to sleep itself after 10-15 minutes - and sometimes not properly going to sleep (?). Anyway - I figured we'd try locking the car on exit for a while and see if the battery issues continued. And guess what - since locking the car on exit from about 5 months ago, we've not had any more car not starting issues. Battery still going strong...

I'd almost forgotten about this lock-after-exiting quirk and then today noticed that the passenger side mirror is not operating up & down, its only going side to side. So am assuming one of the motors in there is faulty, or one of the little cogs is stuck.

Suddenly it feels obvious that the battery drain issue is related to the passenger side mirror (surprise! that was the fault code in the first post in the thread! haha) - has anyone had that mirror apart? any tips?

I'm nervous about pulling the mirror assembly out and breaking something / making it worse...

Pete

PS: The Carly App (iOS) seems to have updated and now my non Carly brand ODB wifi dongle is no longer working fully - just says "engine type cant be identified" when I try to check parameters. So I've ordered an official Carly Adapter. Seems like a pretty smart way to sell a bunch of official adapters
Carly sucks in this regard. They are short-sighted. Fine by me as they do not get my $ nor anyone's that ask me about them.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:20 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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By locking on exit, you weren't locking it because of garage etc?
It's always best to lock the car because low power mode is only achieved with the alarm on. Same for my last car vw jetta.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:35 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
By locking on exit, you weren't locking it because of garage etc?
It's always best to lock the car because low power mode is only achieved with the alarm on. Same for my last car vw jetta.
correct - car is in a secure garage so we'd never even thought to lock it (when at home) prior to this experiment. I don't even know if the car has an alarm btw do they all have one? I've never heard it or known when its arming/disarming.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:50 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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so after doing a bit more searching it sounds like the passenger side mirror dip/vertical movement not working is a bit of a thing - at least, i found a few threads on xoutpost (links 1 2 3 4)

I didn't see any DIY threads here - let me know if you know of one.
It sounds like it might even be just greasy/dirty contacts within the mirror/motor assembly. Some people report pulling it apart and cleaning it all out and it begins working again... tempted to give it a shot once i know for certain the correct procedure to get the mirror off without breaking it ...
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:48 AM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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To stop the tilting on reverse of pass mirror, keep the mirror adjuster switch flipped to passenger side. I flip it only when I need it.. Flip to driver and the tilt engages.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:47 PM
cvgtpc1 cvgtpc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU Pete View Post
Circling back around here to provide more info

Firstly - I didn't end up replacing the battery. I read on a thread elsewhere (may have been this one - Battery drain due to passenger mirror circuit) that if you lock the car after exiting, it forces the full shutdown/sleep process or something, rather than leaving the car to go to sleep itself after 10-15 minutes - and sometimes not properly going to sleep (?). Anyway - I figured we'd try locking the car on exit for a while and see if the battery issues continued. And guess what - since locking the car on exit from about 5 months ago, we've not had any more car not starting issues. Battery still going strong...

I'd almost forgotten about this lock-after-exiting quirk and then today noticed that the passenger side mirror is not operating up & down, its only going side to side. So am assuming one of the motors in there is faulty, or one of the little cogs is stuck.

Suddenly it feels obvious that the battery drain issue is related to the passenger side mirror (surprise! that was the fault code in the first post in the thread! haha) - has anyone had that mirror apart? any tips?

I'm nervous about pulling the mirror assembly out and breaking something / making it worse...

Pete

PS: The Carly App (iOS) seems to have updated and now my non Carly brand ODB wifi dongle is no longer working fully - just says "engine type cant be identified" when I try to check parameters. So I've ordered an official Carly Adapter. Seems like a pretty smart way to sell a bunch of official adapters
Leaving the Carly BT adapter always causes a low battery warning on mine.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:38 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
To stop the tilting on reverse of pass mirror, keep the mirror adjuster switch flipped to passenger side. I flip it only when I need it.. Flip to driver and the tilt engages.
Thanks - yeah we like the tilting on reverse action. to confirm - the vertical tilting of the passenger mirror is not working at all in this case - regardless of the mirror adjuster switch position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvgtpc1 View Post
Leaving the Carly BT adapter always causes a low battery warning on mine.
good tip. yeah i never leave my wifi adapter plugged in after testing parameters etc.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:56 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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So after thinking the problem of car not starting went away, today it has completely stopped. The dash lights come on when trying to start, but it won't crank. Assumed the battery had finally died, called NRMA roadside assistance - he checked battery said it checked a little low, but then to be sure of fault he tried to jump start the car, and it still would not start. He charged the battery for about half hour and tried a few things under the hood. He suspected maybe a starter relay but you could tell he had no idea - he just said we'd have to get it towed.

So tomorrow morning I'm planning to get it towed to mechanic that we haven't used before (am out of town). He is a local euro specialist though with good reviews so fingers crossed. In the meantime - any ideas? I have Carly, but no tools (well, some basic tools but not my own - no volt meter or anything etc ).

From reading other threads I'm suspecting starter motor or a ground wire issue... no other symptoms lately other than slightly slower crank times in last month

Any suggestions?

Pete
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:22 AM
ard ard is offline
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You MAY be about to learn a very expensive lesson in 'battery as a maintennace item'.

AS the voltages drop and get flakey, the BMW system moves current around - IF it inadvertantly starves a module that is needed for say AWS- to- DME sync, your car can lose the ability to start. Not saying this IS your issue, but we have seen this happen before. L:ow battery, jump starting...all makes me nervous.

Alternators fail; starters fail; relays and sensors fail.... This isn't a Holden w 3 parts between the ignition key and a running motor!



GL
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:28 AM
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Ill throw 2 things out there... 1 my pass side no longer goes up and down..have to look into that.... 2 the ground cables on these cars are crap the braided line disintegrates off the driver side engine. Def wrth a shot to crawl under there and chk. Mine broke at the mechanic while he was doing a suspension refresh. i touuched the cable and it crumbled.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:56 AM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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So, relatively good news - it was the starter motor.
Replaced for AUD$700 (~USD$500) fitted.
Back to running great. The slightly slower crank times we noticed in last month are now gone - so feel pretty sure that was a sign of the starter on its last legs.

Was going to praise the efforts of the little small-town euro specialist until my wife picked up the car and wasn't until she got home i discovered that they neglected to re-fit the underbody plastic engine protector sheet things! Geeeees - can mechanics ever just do the job! So now we have a 3-4 hour round trip to ye olde small town to get the underbody covers back on and fitted. Really makes me wish I was retired and had the time/equipment to do all the stuff myself. alas i do not. a coworker picked up a new toyota rav4 hybrid today. must say i lusted after the low risk of stuff going wrong with such a car!
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