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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #51  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:29 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkimport View Post
I have just experienced very similar situation. I was told my X5 suddenly locked up while dealer mechanic was test driving. ... What options advice would you suggest?
Lawyer up!. Under the common law bailment theory of locatio operis faciendi you are due extreme care and due damages apart from civil or tort law.
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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Last edited by Doug Huffman; 07-09-2019 at 02:33 AM.
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  #52  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:58 AM
X5Driver01 X5Driver01 is offline
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From my recent firsthand personal experience, Chitown offered up some very sound advice:

1.) Learn what you can what may have happened from the forums or an independent BMW only shop, don't necessarily believe the dealer.
2.) KINDLY (don't lose your cool too much) push the issue with the dealer and BMWNA if needed. You paid a surcharge for a CPO.
3.) If all else fails get a quote from a BMW independent shop.

Re-read this thread. Be prepared and let them know you are very ready to move to option #3 listed above. This, I found, was crucial to my success during negotiations. An independent mechanic can be very important leverage - and be prepared to spend the $$ to get closer to the truth. The dealer and BMWNA does not want this!!
Do not accept the first, second or even third offer. See option #2
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  #53  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:05 AM
chitown312 chitown312 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5Driver01 View Post
From my recent firsthand personal experience, Chitown offered up some very sound advice:

1.) Learn what you can what may have happened from the forums or an independent BMW only shop, don't necessarily believe the dealer.
2.) KINDLY (don't lose your cool too much) push the issue with the dealer and BMWNA if needed. You paid a surcharge for a CPO.
3.) If all else fails get a quote from a BMW independent shop.

Re-read this thread. Be prepared and let them know you are very ready to move to option #3 listed above. This, I found, was crucial to my success during negotiations. An independent mechanic can be very important leverage - and be prepared to spend the $$ to get closer to the truth. The dealer and BMWNA does not want this!!
Do not accept the first, second or even third offer. See option #2
Thanks. So did you keep the car and if not what did you replace it with?
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  #54  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:18 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5Driver01 View Post
3.) If all else fails get a quote from a BMW independent shop.

Re-read this thread. Be prepared and let them know you are very ready to move to option #3 listed above. This, I found, was crucial to my success during negotiations. An independent mechanic can be very important leverage - and be prepared to spend the $$ to get closer to the truth. The dealer and BMWNA does not want this!!
Do not accept the first, second or even third offer. See option #2
+1

So true. People are facing a $15k bill, but wont spend $250 for a solid diagnosis.... dealerships know this, and use it. How many owners will seriously get a tow truck to move a car!??

"Oh, BMWNA recommends replacing the whole motor, so they wont pay for a teardown- will cost you $2500". Dealer most definitely DOES NOT WANT anyone saying 'this was the mechanics fault', because then the DEALER pays for it.

Dealer will make BMWNA look like the bad guy too. Remember, dealer's #1 goal is to protect their a$$es. They cannot be trusted to be an honest broker with BMWNA on your behalf. While you are limited, just understanding their conflicts can help you manage the communications.


If this happened to me, I would do the following:

1. Ask for a written explanation as to what happened
2. Ask if the dealer and BWMNA are going to cover it
and if no
3. Tell then they have no permissions to touch the car, I will make arrangements to have the car transported to my expert for a forensic teardown. "Can I have them pick it up tomorrow morning?"

If you have a locked motor, that is known to be scrap, it is only a few hours of aggressive parts removal to figure out the cause.... you arent doing a 'book time disassembly'. Its a 'what happened look-see'. JMHO
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #55  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:21 PM
junkimport junkimport is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
+1

So true. People are facing a $15k bill, but wont spend $250 for a solid diagnosis.... dealerships know this, and use it. How many owners will seriously get a tow truck to move a car!??

"Oh, BMWNA recommends replacing the whole motor, so they wont pay for a teardown- will cost you $2500". Dealer most definitely DOES NOT WANT anyone saying 'this was the mechanics fault', because then the DEALER pays for it.

Dealer will make BMWNA look like the bad guy too. Remember, dealer's #1 goal is to protect their a$$es. They cannot be trusted to be an honest broker with BMWNA on your behalf. While you are limited, just understanding their conflicts can help you manage the communications.


If this happened to me, I would do the following:

1. Ask for a written explanation as to what happened
2. Ask if the dealer and BWMNA are going to cover it
and if no
3. Tell then they have no permissions to touch the car, I will make arrangements to have the car transported to my expert for a forensic teardown. "Can I have them pick it up tomorrow morning?"

If you have a locked motor, that is known to be scrap, it is only a few hours of aggressive parts removal to figure out the cause.... you arent doing a 'book time disassembly'. Its a 'what happened look-see'. JMHO

Thank you for your advice, I appreciate the comments and suggestions from everybody.
Now our dealer is trying to negotiate with BMWNA and I expect some offer or explanation will be given to me.

I would like see how it will work first.then I may not be able to update every single dialogue with them.

Thank you again.
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  #56  
Old 07-09-2019, 11:00 PM
newnovice newnovice is offline
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good luck with this!
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  #57  
Old 07-10-2019, 05:48 AM
X5Driver01 X5Driver01 is offline
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Thanks. So did you keep the car and if not what did you replace it with?


I had daily discussions with first the service manager and then the general manager of the dealership to come up with an acceptable outcome. When we came to an impasse over labor charges to replace the engine, I went to the sales manager and after 3 face-to-face sometimes contentious discussions with the service, sales and general managers we finally agreed they would buy the car as-is for $9,500 and I would use this as credit to lease a new X3.
I paid $0 for the repairs.
I had scheduled an independent mechanic to pick up the car at the dealership and determine the cause of the engine failure - and that helped push the the negotiations.

In the end I was quite satisfied with the new lease terms and I think they were happy to see this issue go away.
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  #58  
Old 07-10-2019, 09:09 AM
[email protected] Kdsjhs@aol.com is offline
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Mein Auto:
2012X5 locked motor

My car has a 6 cyclinder engine. It is currently at another dearlership trying to diagnosis what caused the motor to lock. Still communicating with BMWNA.
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  #59  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:17 AM
chitown312 chitown312 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
My car has a 6 cyclinder engine. It is currently at another dearlership trying to diagnosis what caused the motor to lock. Still communicating with BMWNA.
Interesting, hopefully one dealer isn't on the same team as the other. In other words, will one tech will cover another if it's a mistake.

What was the reaction of the move to another dealer?

Keep us posted. Don't disappear and never return to the forum.
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e70 N63, M adaptive suspension.
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  #60  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:38 AM
TroubledGnome TroubledGnome is offline
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Mein Auto: 1988 M3, 2011 X5 35D
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
My car has a 6 cyclinder engine. It is currently at another dearlership trying to diagnosis what caused the motor to lock. Still communicating with BMWNA.
Why did it take 3 month just to get to this point?
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  #61  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:57 PM
junkimport junkimport is offline
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I'm glad to hear you have satisfied settlement with them.
As for the my case, it is very unfortunate but offer from BMW through local dealer was completely unsatisfactory. I have to start communicating to both BMW NA and the local dealer. I'm getting tired to hear their excuses without any proven facts.

Thank you for your advise.
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  #62  
Old 07-16-2019, 03:49 PM
junkimport junkimport is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown312 View Post
Just to be sure by N55 you mean you have an inline 6 and not a v8 twin turbo right? The engine seizing after a valve cover seal does sound highly unusual. I wonder if other forums members could chime in regarding what could go wrong with the cover off. Can a contaminate drop in the engine during the mentioned service and eventually make its way into the combustion part of the engine? Knowing what could go wrong could potentially help you argue the point better.

Either way if you bought the car CPO i'd think BMWNA or the dealer would help you in some way. At a 15k replacement cost it sounds like there isn't any discount which is shameful if you bought it from them as a CPO. At the same time BMW corporate and the profit machine may almost depreciate the car fully since they think people only drive BMWs up to 100k miles.

1.) Learn what you can what may have happened from the forums or an independent BMW only shop, don't necessarily believe the dealer.
2.) KINDLY (don't lose your cool too much) push the issue with the dealer and BMWNA if needed. You paid a surcharge for a CPO.
3.) If all else fails get a quote from a BMW independent shop.

The dealer offered me $8400 for replacing motor. I’m trying to find win win settlement as well as X5Driver01. I hope BMWNA will make reasonable offer to get out the situation.
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  #63  
Old 07-16-2019, 04:11 PM
ard ard is offline
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Question: Was this from the DEALER? or from BMWNA? In writing? Im asking to see if it is some kind of admission of guilt.

If they are giving you $8400 off a new $24000 motor, then they are still making money on you.....

If it is 8400 off the first $15k number you posted, not too horrible.

Say, did you ever find out what caused the failure?????

Finally, if you dont want to post details, just say so. We'd love to know, and help, but sometimes it isnt in your best interests- until the deal is done.
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #64  
Old 07-18-2019, 12:50 AM
junkimport junkimport is offline
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Mein Auto: E70 X5
The discounted quote of $8400 including new motor and labor was provided verbally by the dealer. We were told both BMW NA and the dealer discounted by 50% each. However there is no proven fact why we have to be responsible. I'm requesting the dealer to work out with BMW to figure out the trade-in value for my X5 as is. I'm waiting for their reply.

I hope their estimated trade-in value will be matched to market value in order to make me move for leasing new vehicle.
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