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  #1  
Old 11-14-2018, 05:04 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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coolant temp low

I have a 2007 328xi. As the weather is getting colder (right around freezing temperature), I notice that my heater only blows lukewarm air. Coolant level is ok. I checked the coolant pump fuses, and they are ok. I get two codes 2E84 and 2E85 which both say "coolant pump, communication." Also the engine never overheats. In fact the temperature is running really low. The temperature usually stays around 60C, dips to 50C and sometimes gets to 69C, but doesn't stay there long. I'm thinking that the thermostat is stuck open. But just to test the coolant pump, I tried to do the bleed procedure, and the pump never kicks on. That would make me believe it's the pump. But like I said, the temperature stays way below normal operating temperature. The temperature stays low if I'm on the city or the highway. Does anybody think it's the thermostat failed open?

Last edited by Dano328xi; 11-14-2018 at 05:05 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:25 PM
ctuna ctuna is offline
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ACmbfEgCbsVKeH

I think cooling explanation starts at something like page 67
The point is the engine can run at 4 different temperatures
depending on what it thinks is needed in the way of cooling.

Last edited by ctuna; 11-14-2018 at 06:28 PM.
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:37 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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my engine temperature falls well below all four of the temp ranges in the article
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2018, 08:58 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
2007 328xi... my heater only blows lukewarm air. Coolant level is ok. I checked the coolant pump fuses, and they are ok. I get two codes 2E84 and 2E85... Also the engine never overheats. In fact the temperature is running really low. The temperature usually stays around 60C, dips to 50C and sometimes gets to 69C, but doesn't stay there long. I'm thinking that the thermostat is stuck open. But just to test the coolant pump, I tried to do the bleed procedure, and the pump never kicks on...Does anybody think it's the thermostat failed open?
Welcome to the Forum! Yes, it sounds like open thermostat. Just a few questions to make sure.

QUESTIONS:
1) What software/Scan Tool did you use to read codes?
2) Do you have a laptop and if so, have you downloaded/are you interested in downloading INPA?
3) What are you using to read Coolant Temp, and have you verified the temp with a secondary device?

For instance, you could plug a scan tool into the OBD II Socket and read ECTS (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor) signal parameter in real time, or you could use "Hidden Menu" 7.00 to read the same signal on the instrument cluster, AND you can point an Infrared Thermometer at the ECTS housing (at the OFH - Oil Filter Housing) to confirm the sensor signal. Hidden Menu Info:
http://e90.wikifoundry.com/page/BC+hidden+menus

If you have INPA, there are a number of "Status" screens that are very helpful in diagnosing Cooling System issues, such as the ability to read the following in real time (parameters): Pump speed %, Fan speed %, ECTS signal, Radiator Outlet Temperature (Lower Radiator Hose temp), Thermostat open %.

Also using INPA, you can use Activations/Steuern to (1) run the Coolant Pump at 5%, 50% or 95% of max speed while monitoring radiator inlet & outlet temps; AND (2) operate the Thermostat at 15%, 50% & 90%, also while monitoring radiator in/out temps. You can also monitor fan speed with radiator temp in another selected screen.

As you know, the thermostat is designed to maintain a temp at the ECTS in the 90-95C range.

As for the two codes you cite, "BMW-North" who is a BMW Pro, has posted the following Definitions:
FC 2E84 Electric coolant pump, communication

FC 2E85 Electric coolant pump, communication, no voltage at emergency operation input of pump

I have to wonder if those are CURRENTLY PRESENT Faults. INPA always tells you if a code is currently present, and if it would set a warning light. It (and most other good Scan Tools) also provides Freeze Frame Data that indicates the Mileage/km when the code was saved in Module (here DME) memory.

I would highly recommend INPA for those who already have the only expensive part of the system (Laptop ;-) as the K+DCAN cable is $20 - $45 and the software download is free. Attached are three Screen Prints showing INPA Activation/ Steuern screens for (1) Coolant Pump (Wasserpumpe), (2) Thermostat (KFK) and (3) Radiator Fan (E-Lufter). EACH screen shows % Status of component WITH Radiator Inlet/Outlet Temps. You can use these screens either to MONITOR the DME-controlled status of the system, OR you can manually Activate the component and see how the manually-activated status of the component affects the system.

George
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  #5  
Old 11-17-2018, 05:49 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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I changed the thermostat today, and that solved the low temperature problems.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:55 AM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Welcome to the Forum! Yes, it sounds like open thermostat. Just a few questions to make sure.

QUESTIONS:
1) What software/Scan Tool did you use to read codes?
2) Do you have a laptop and if so, have you downloaded/are you interested in downloading INPA?
3) What are you using to read Coolant Temp, and have you verified the temp with a secondary device?
1) I used a Peake Research scan tool
2) I took your advice and downloaded INPA
3) I was using the hidden menu feature to monitor the temp while driving

It seems that the problem is NOT fixed after all. I did install a new thermostat, but the low temperatures persist. The temperature will get to about 87C at the most on the highway. It can get to 100C only if driving very slow (25mph) for 15 minutes or so. The temperature drops somewhat rapidly if I turn on the heater. On the highway it never gets above 66C or so with the heater blowing medium fan speed.

I used INPA to look at the thermostat and the pump. The pump was running about 75% when the engine temp was about 80C and sitting idle. The thermostat was at 0% while sitting idle. I used the feature to change it to 50%. The green bar reads 50% for 30 seconds or so then drops back to 0%. I assume 0% means the thermostat is fully open. Also I get the same 2E85 error code in INPA that I get from the Peake tool. The 2E84 code went away when I changed the thermostat.

Any ideas? thanks in advance
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Last edited by Dano328xi; 11-21-2018 at 06:36 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:50 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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new thermostat, new water pump, new temperature sensor, no fault code errors. Still no heat and the temperature never gets above 70C. Anybody have any ideas?
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:25 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
new thermostat, new water pump, new temperature sensor, no fault code errors. Still no heat and the temperature never gets above 70C. Anybody have any ideas?
Which "temperature sensor" was changed -- the ECTS at the Front of the OFH?

Something doesn't compute.

1) Did you bleed the cooling system after changing pump/thermostat per the last page of this TIS Procedure, specifically with a battery charger attached and lights on? Skip the first ~ 8 pages related to vacuum filling unit:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...check/CNCeB76L

2) Is Radiator Outlet Temp 7.5C lower than ECTS Temp when you read the values in INPA?

3) If you use INPA to shut off the cooling fan, can you get ECTS temp signal to 95C, just running engine at idle for several minutes (doesn't matter if thermostat is wide open if no air flow through radiator)?

4) Do you have an Infrared Thermometer with which you can confirm ECTS temp value you are seeing in INPA and/or with Hidden Menu 7.00?

Please let us know what you find,
George
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:22 AM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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HI George, can you tell me where the best place to measure with the infrared thermometer is? lower radiator hose?
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  #10  
Old 12-09-2018, 11:27 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
HI George, can you tell me where the best place to measure with the infrared thermometer is? lower radiator hose?
What I was suggesting was to use the Infrared Thermometer to CONFIRM or calibrate the sensor temp readout you are seeing in INPA or in Hidden Menu 7.00. What I asked was: "Do you have an Infrared Thermometer with which you can confirm ECTS temp value you are seeing in INPA and/or with Hidden Menu 7.00?"

So if you are trying to check the temp readout you are seeing on the instrument cluster using Hidden Menu 7.00, that is the signal from the ECTS (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor), which is located on the front of the OFH (Oil Filter Housing). For that sensor, you would point your thermometer (laser if it has one) at the housing next to the sensor, and if your thermometer and the sensor signal temp readout agree (within ~ 2 degrees C) then no problems. This is to rule out a problem in the ECTS Connector or wiring between the ECTS and the DME, as you are reading the DME's calculation of temp based on the voltage of the signal from the ECTS, as received by the DME.

Same for the Radiator Outlet Temp Sensor. Visualize the sensor (at the lower radiator hose or its connection to the Thermostat), and point the Infrared Thermometer at the hose next to the sensor.

Answers to the questions I posed in the prior post would help the rest of us help you.

George
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2018, 12:46 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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I replaced the sensor on the OFH. The infrared measurement is a couple degrees cooler than the hidden menu temperature and the inpa temperature. The latter two coincide closely.

When I let the car sit idle for about 10 minutes the temperature gets up to 75C.

There is no lower radiator hose sensor.

I bled the cooling system a couple times with a battery charger according to the instructions.

According to INPA the coolant outlet temp is about 7.5 degrees cooler than the coolant temp. I attached a screenshot.

Thanks for your time and expertise.
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
1)
It seems that the problem is NOT fixed after all. I did install a new thermostat, but the low temperatures persist. The temperature will get to about 87C at the most on the highway. It can get to 100C only if driving very slow (25mph) for 15 minutes or so. The temperature drops somewhat rapidly if I turn on the heater. On the highway it never gets above 66C or so with the heater blowing medium fan speed.

Any ideas? thanks in advance
--------------------------------------------
Edit: Just noticed (after posting the below) you said the temp drops to 66C when you turn on the cabin blower. If that's the case the below info might not be relevant? I'll leave it anyway though as I would still check the heater valve operation and you need to eliminate all possibilities seeing you're out of ideas. The one other thing I'll add is ensure the coolant system is bled of any air thoroughly.
--------------------------------------------
In reading the above I think your concern is a lack of hot air in the cabin via the vents - Is that correct?

I routinely log engine params in the e9x so I'm familiar with the drastic variances in the normal op temp. I've seen everything from 85C to 108C on a perfectly working n52 e90 and e92.

Op temps between 87C and 100C are normal. Even at 87C your heater should be blowing very hot air - the IHKA via the Heater Core temp sensor doesn't permit very hot coolant through it anyway as a safety issue. As an example, on the M5x engines IHKA will close the heater valve when the coolant temp at the heater core >80C. Not sure the exact temp for the N5X but it will be similar if not the same.

Think about how this works for a moment: The heated water is pumped out of the engine via an electric water pump through the water Heater Valve to the heater core (heat exchanger). From here, the water is routed back to the engine and engine thermostat. If you're not getting hot water through the heater valve and therefore the heater core - you'll not get hot air in the cabin.

Your issue sounds like a stuck Heater valve. Meaning the coolant is not cycling through the heater core. The coolant in the heater core will heat up slightly from conduction as the engine warms but the minute the blower is turned on you will get warm/hot air for a second or two then it will rapidly cool and then you will just get cool air.

Examine the water heater valve. After the engine is warmed up feel the hoses going in and out with your heater turned on. They should all be hot. You can bypass it temporarily to see if it is indeed the root problem.

Last edited by BMW-North; 12-09-2018 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:20 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post

In reading the above I think your concern is a lack of hot air in the cabin via the vents - Is that correct?
Yes that's correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post
Examine the water heater valve. After the engine is warmed up feel the hoses going in and out with your heater turned on. They should all be hot. You can bypass it temporarily to see if it is indeed the root problem.
When you say hoses in and out, do you mean in and out of the firewall? If that's the case, I may need to remove the air filter housing to do that.

Last edited by Dano328xi; 12-09-2018 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
When you say hoses in and out, do you mean in and out of the firewall? If that's the case, I may need to remove the air filter housing to do that.
Yes - check those hoses. There are different configs on these models depending on destination and climate. Some have aux pumps, others a changeover valve. In either case you need hot water going into the heater core (thru the firewall) to get heat. Are you in EU or USA? Put your VIN in REAL OEM and get the exact system config for your model.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:38 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
I replaced the sensor on the OFH. The infrared measurement is a couple degrees cooler than the hidden menu temperature and the inpa temperature. The latter two coincide closely. When I let the car sit idle for about 10 minutes the temperature gets up to 75C...

I bled the cooling system a couple times with a battery charger according to the instructions. According to INPA the coolant outlet temp is about 7.5 degrees cooler than the coolant temp. I attached a screenshot.
Perhaps first we should understand WHERE in the world you are located, and what the ambient temp was when you are reporting the failure of the ECTS to get above 87.8C as shown in the INPA Thermostat Activation (F6 | F1 | F6) that you attached.

BTW, do you EVER see "Status Map-Thermostat" (Status Kennfeldthermostat in the German) reading anything OTHER than "0"? If not, perhaps (1) you did not connect the Connector X6279 that goes to the Thermostat, OR (2) Fuse F78 which supplies power to BOTH the Thermostat control circuit, AND the Coolant Pump control circuit is blown. I am assuming that your 2007 328xi was built between 3/1/2007 & 8/31/2007. If that is NOT the case, then you need to lookup the correct fuse number for "-2007/02" models.

NOT to beat all that into the ground, but the INPA screen you attached shows coolant temps at the two sensors in question in a reasonable range, and if Coolant Temp at the ECTS is 88C, you SHOULD be able to get heat from your heater core and IHKA outlets with coolant at that temp, UNLESS something is wrong with your IHKA system, such as (1) Heater Valve NOT opening as it should to route hot coolant through the heater core as Ian/BMW-North describes, OR (2) Blend flaps NOT directing air (already cooled by Evaporator unless Snowflake Button NOT green-lighted) through the heater core.

If your primary concern is lack of heat from the heater, then rather than diagnose the Thermostat/ KFK, you should use INPA to diagnose the IHKA function, since your coolant temperature is really NOT that low. I would suggest that you try the following:
1) Using INPA, connect to IHKA module (Body | Air Condioning/Control Panel;
2) In IHKA Main Menu, select F5 (Status), then F2 (Read Controller Analog Values);
3) With Temp Controls set to max temp, and engine fully warm, save a screenprint of that screen, and attach it to your next post. That screen shows Inside Temp, Outside Temp, Footwell Temp & and the setpoint of each of the two thermostats.
4) Then select Submenu F4 (Analog Flaps), and with controls still set the same and engine runnning, do screenprint of that screen. Make sure you accurately record (via screenprint or otherwise) the Blend or Mixing Flap Positions (bottom two bars) and the positions of the other 6 flaps (although the Blend/ Mixing Flaps are key.

I am NOT aware of any readout (Status) or Control (Activation) function available in INPA for the Water Valve, so we just have to test all the other variables, and if nothing else explains your lack of heat, then the water valve is all that is left (unless ANYONE else KNOWS a diagnostic test for the Water Valve).

One other thing you could do is remove the trim panel above the pedals in the Left/ US Driver footwell and using your Infrared thermometer, read/record the temp of the tubes going TO and FROM the heater core, but the Footwell Temp from INPA as described above should tell us what we need to know.

Please let us know what you find,
George
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:39 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Perhaps first we should understand WHERE in the world you are located, and what the ambient temp was when you are reporting the failure of the ECTS to get above 87.8C as shown in the INPA Thermostat Activation (F6 | F1 | F6) that you attached.
Marion, Ohio temperature is 28F.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
BTW, do you EVER see "Status Map-Thermostat" (Status Kennfeldthermostat in the German) reading anything OTHER than "0"? If not, perhaps (1) you did not connect the Connector X6279 that goes to the Thermostat, OR (2) Fuse F78 which supplies power to BOTH the Thermostat control circuit, AND the Coolant Pump control circuit is blown. I am assuming that your 2007 328xi was built between 3/1/2007 & 8/31/2007. If that is NOT the case, then you need to lookup the correct fuse number for "-2007/02" models.
I haven't seen anything other than 0 for the thermostat in INPA (KFK). I have tried to change it to 50 % and it stays there for 30 seconds or so then goes back to 0. I have checked F78, and it's good. Same with that fuse under the hood next to the computer. This car was built in 06/2007. I made sure the plug was seated in the thermostat. I even unplugged it to see if I got a fault code. I did. 2EF5. I plugged it back in and cleared the fault code. iAlso I can see in INPA where the water pump varies its flow. When I turn on the heater fan, it goes to 76.1% and stays there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
If your primary concern is lack of heat from the heater, then rather than diagnose the Thermostat/ KFK, you should use INPA to diagnose the IHKA function, since your coolant temperature is really NOT that low. I would suggest that you try the following:
1) Using INPA, connect to IHKA module (Body | Air Condioning/Control Panel;
2) In IHKA Main Menu, select F5 (Status), then F2 (Read Controller Analog Values);
3) With Temp Controls set to max temp, and engine fully warm, save a screenprint of that screen, and attach it to your next post. That screen shows Inside Temp, Outside Temp, Footwell Temp & and the setpoint of each of the two thermostats.
4) Then select Submenu F4 (Analog Flaps), and with controls still set the same and engine runnning, do screenprint of that screen. Make sure you accurately record (via screenprint or otherwise) the Blend or Mixing Flap Positions (bottom two bars) and the positions of the other 6 flaps (although the Blend/ Mixing Flaps are key.
George
which values do you want to see a screen shot? See attached screen shot. I'm not sure where I should go in this menu.
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Last edited by Dano328xi; 12-10-2018 at 04:00 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:57 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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also, I felt the two hoses on the bottom right in the attached photo. They look like they go to the firewall. They both felt warm. This was earlier when the car was at about 75C coolant temp. The top hose was 44C and the bottom hose was about 36C.

In the background, is that the heater valve? It looks like it's attached to the firewall.

Just now to warm the car up, I went for a drive, then sat in the driveway taking the screenshots. Of course when the car warmed up when sitting idle (103C) the heat was somewhat warm. Maybe the valve fails intermittently?

It looks like if I take off the cabin air filter and the housing, maybe I can get to the heater valve. I ordered one, and it should be here tomorrow. Maybe I'll just replace it anyway regardless of the diagnosis. That way I can keep with the theme of replacing every part until I have a new car.

Unfortunately this doesn't explain why the damn thermostat never reads above 0% in INPA.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:34 PM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
...you SHOULD be able to get heat from your heater core and IHKA outlets with coolant at that temp, UNLESS something is wrong with your IHKA system, such as (1) Heater Valve NOT opening as it should to route hot coolant through the heater core as Ian/BMW-North describes, OR (2) Blend flaps NOT directing air (already cooled by Evaporator unless Snowflake Button NOT green-lighted) through the heater core...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
Marion, Ohio temperature is 28F...I haven't seen anything other than 0 for the thermostat in INPA (KFK). I have tried to change it to 50 % and it stays there for 30 seconds or so then goes back to 0...This car was built in 06/2007. I made sure the plug was seated in the thermostat. I even unplugged it to see if I got a fault code. I did. 2EF5. I plugged it back in and cleared the fault code. iAlso I can see in INPA where the water pump varies its flow. When I turn on the heater fan, it goes to 76.1% and stays there...which values do you want to see a screen shot? See attached screen shot. I'm not sure where I should go in this menu.
I notice in the ScreenPrints you attached that the ECTS Temp is 95.3C & 94.5C, so if the air discharge from the footwell vents is NOT toasty warm with coolant temp over 90C, there HAS to be a problem with the Water Valve or Blend flaps, or at least some restriction of flow through the heater core.

In my earlier post I described how to use INPA to check for proper Blend Flap/Mixing Flap operation. I copy that again below:

1) Using INPA, connect to IHKA module (Body | Air Conditioning/Control Panel;
2) In IHKA Main Menu, select F5 (Status), then F2 (Read Controller Analog Values);
3) With Temp Controls set to max temp, and engine fully warm, save a screenprint of that screen, and attach it to your next post. That screen shows Inside Temp, Outside Temp, Footwell Temp & and the setpoint of each of the two thermostats.
4) Then select Submenu F4 (Analog Flaps), and with controls still set the same and engine runnning, do screenprint of that screen. Make sure you accurately record (via screenprint or otherwise) the Blend or Mixing Flap Positions (bottom two bars) and the positions of the other 6 flaps (although the Blend/ Mixing Flaps are key).

Also, in my earlier post, I stated that I was NOT aware of any way to test or operate the Water Valve. I have since discovered a way to "switch on Water Valve for 30 seconds."

Connect to the JBE by Selecting Left Listbox: Body/Karosserie, and then after tabbing to Right Listbox, select "Junction Box Passenger II DCAN"; you should now see the JBE (or JBBF) Main Menu. Select F6 (Activations/Steuern), F4 (Auxiliary Water Pump/ Water Valve) and then select F3, Switch on Water Valve for 30 seconds. Try that several times and see if ANYTHING changes related to footwell vent temps.

If the heat worked last winter but has NOT worked effectively since summer when A/C was used constantly, it is possible that the Heater Valve (or the Blend Flaps) just need to be "exercised" through several cycles.

Please let us know what you find,
George
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:52 AM
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BMW-North BMW-North is offline
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I realize you said it was new but also look at the water pump rpms. On your n52 the wp is responsible for pushing water thru the heater core.

Also look for any temp sensor errors in ihka and DME.

Last edited by BMW-North; 12-11-2018 at 03:57 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:45 AM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
1) Using INPA, connect to IHKA module (Body | Air Conditioning/Control Panel;
2) In IHKA Main Menu, select F5 (Status), then F2 (Read Controller Analog Values);
3) With Temp Controls set to max temp, and engine fully warm, save a screenprint of that screen, and attach it to your next post. That screen shows Inside Temp, Outside Temp, Footwell Temp & and the setpoint of each of the two thermostats.
4) Then select Submenu F4 (Analog Flaps), and with controls still set the same and engine runnning, do screenprint of that screen. Make sure you accurately record (via screenprint or otherwise) the Blend or Mixing Flap Positions (bottom two bars) and the positions of the other 6 flaps (although the Blend/ Mixing Flaps are key).
Thanks for your help. From the main menu if i select F5(status) then F2 (read controller analog values) the attached screenshot is the result. It looks like I need to make one more selection. Am I missing something? thanks

edit: that screenshot is very small, but it is the same screenshot as in my post #16 - far left screenshot.

edit: also I didn't have the car last winter so I don't know if it worked unfortunately. but it does work sometimes. very rarely.
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  #21  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:04 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano328xi View Post
...From the main menu [Main Menu you are seeing is DME/MSV80 Main Menu -- you need to connect to IHKA] if i select F5(status) then F2 (read controller analog values) the attached screenshot is the result. It looks like I need to make one more selection. [Yes, and THAT selection was at the opening List Boxes ] Am I missing something? [Yes, but hopefully all will be made clear by attached ScreenPrints]
Think of the Electrical components of your car being controlled by ~ 20 different computer chips or ECMs (Electronic Control MODULES).

Most engine-related components such as coolant pump, thermostat, alternator, radiator fan, fuel injectors, etc. are controlled by the DME (MSV80 in your case). In controlling those functions, the DME also gets INPUTS from components such as sensors, the input usually being in the form of (a) a variable voltage in the case of the temperature sensors, or (b) a "square wave" in the case of others reporting speed/RPM such as the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor). BOTH the electrical devices being controlled, and the Inputs that enable the DME to control those devices, are wired directly to the DME.

So in that context, it should make sense that if you want to use F5 Status to observe function of a sensor, or use F6 Steuern/Activations to CONTROL or temporarily over-ride Module control of a component, you would connect to THAT MODULE to which the sensor is directly wired, or to which the controlled component is directly wired.

So to correctly understand how to diagnose an electrical issue (and with this car, MOST issues relate to an electrical component), you need to understand the general wiring diagram concepts of what MODULE a particular sensor connects to or supplies a signal to, AND what MODULE controls operation of a particular component, motor, valve, etc. THAT is NOT always what you would guess based on general function of components, as components are often wired to/ controlled by the nearest ECM (Module) as opposed to the one that generally controls function.

That latter concept is proven by the fact that the Water Valve is wired to, and controlled via, the JBE (as is the A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor ;-) So, to more quickly get the concept of how to use INPA, one should learn how to quickly find the TIS circuit diagram for the electrical component in question (for YOUR particular year/model as systems changed during E9x run) to see what module the component connects to.

You HAVE successfully connected to, and read Status/Live Data/Parameters from, the DME. NOW, in your case, as I tried to explain in my prior post (apparently NOT well ;-), you need to connect to two other modules, 1) IHKA; 2) JBE. Note that at the top-left of your screen print INPA informs you WHAT MODULE you are connected to. In the Left attachment to your Post #16, you see "MSV80" which indicates INPA is connected to the DME/MSV80 in your vehicle.

So hopefully you now understand WHY you need to connect to different modules for different diagnostics. HOW do you connect to IHKA or JBE/JBBF?

A. Connect to IHKA:
1) Open INPA program & select E90 (vehicle series), and you should see "Script selection" Listbox that looks like first attached Screenprint;
2) INSTEAD of selecting Engine & then MSV80 as you did to connect to the DME, press the DOWN arrow key in the Left Listbox to highlight/select Body/Karosserie (my version is almost entirely German); you should note as you scroll down, the selections which may be made in the RIGHT Listbox change;
3) When you arrive at Body (or Karosserie), you should see a screen that looks like, or is similar to, the second attached Screenprint;
4) Press Tab and use DOWN arrow to select/highlight "Air Conditioning / Control Panel";
5) Press Enter or click on selection and you should NOW see the IHKA Main Menu which looks like the third attached Screenprint;
6) Follow the instructions provided in prior post to see IHKA | F5 | F2 & F5 | F4 Screens.

If the wheels come off somewhere, please post back.

Connect to JBE/JBBF:
1) Perform steps 1 - 3 above
4) Press Tab and use DOWN arrow to select/highlight "Junction Box Passenger II (DCAN)"
5) Press Enter/Click and you should NOW see the JBBF Main Menu which looks like the fourth attached Screenprint;
6) Follow the instructions provided in prior post to see JBBF | F6 | F4 screen & there, select F3.

Please let us know what you find,

George
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:01 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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the plot thickens! Thanks for that. I'll try it in a couple hours. I just downloaded INPA a couple weeks ago and obviously am a newbie.
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:42 PM
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BMW-North BMW-North is offline
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I was looking through Real OEM in comparison to workshop manuals and it shows e90 328 with and without heater valve, and/or Aux pump & changeover valves. Not sure if it's dependent on if you have dual climate control or the destination code in the FA or not at all? At this point though I'm quite certain that your 328xi does NOT have a heater valve or changeover valve. I posted pics of 3 different configs all for the n52 in e9x. I think you have the config in the last pic.

N52 with HV & Aux (WSM)


Also seems that vehicles with N52 has heater valve while N52N does not. What's odd is all the e9x tech documentation I have includes the heater valve in describing operation and diagrams.

N52 with Heater Valve (RealOEM)


I don't believe you have a heater valve or changeover valve. If that is the case then your water pump is responsible for driving coolant to the core. Narrows down possibilities. Waterpump, T-Stat, or clogged core.

N52 without Heater Valve (RealOEM)


Heat control on your car must be confined to blend doors. I'm at a loss however to understand what prevents hot coolant from travelling through the heater core in summer.

I hazard you have a clogged core or a lack of flow. Flushing the core would be one test but perhaps not this time of year for a DIY. Even a whacky sensor wouldn't affect anything if there were no heater valve (flow control) - unless on these models there is a Flow control built into the Heater Core. That I do not know.

Last edited by BMW-North; 12-11-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2018, 06:27 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Connect to JBE/JBBF:
1) Perform steps 1 - 3 above
4) Press Tab and use DOWN arrow to select/highlight "Junction Box Passenger II (DCAN)"
5) Press Enter/Click and you should NOW see the JBBF Main Menu which looks like the fourth attached Screenprint;
6) Follow the instructions provided in prior post to see JBBF | F6 | F4 screen & there, select F3.
George
The third screenshot shows what happens when I try to do this. I hope the other two screenshots are what you were looking for.

I think I will try the heater core flush for fun.
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Last edited by Dano328xi; 12-11-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2018, 07:20 PM
Dano328xi Dano328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post
I don't believe you have a heater valve or changeover valve. If that is the case then your water pump is responsible for driving coolant to the core. Narrows down possibilities. Waterpump, T-Stat, or clogged core.
If there is a heater valve or changeover valve, I don't see it. Wouldn't you be able to see it in the attached photo where the air filter housing is removed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post
I hazard you have a clogged core or a lack of flow. Flushing the core would be one test but perhaps not this time of year for a DIY. Even a whacky sensor wouldn't affect anything if there were no heater valve (flow control) - unless on these models there is a Flow control built into the Heater Core. That I do not know.
I will definitely try to back flush the heater core. It looks like the top hose is the one that I want to put the water into for back flushing.

In the second photo, I don't know what that part is that is circled. Any idea? The part with the arrow touching is just the open tube where the air filter housing would attach
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