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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:33 PM
PeterO PeterO is offline
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Transmission swap

Has anyone ever upgraded from the 6spd to the 8spd? Just curious what all would be required to do this.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:43 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterO View Post
Has anyone ever upgraded from the 6spd to the 8spd? Just curious what all would be required to do this.
I think ....this would be a NIGHTMARE. I have X5 E70. My transmission broke down at 200K miles (previous owners listened to ZF/BMW and never changed OIL!).
BMW docs claim it is 6HP19Z, upon opening it was 6HP21x (deriviative)

But here the problem starts. They are made by ZF. the transmission type (6hp21x in my case) ..is just generic type of transmission
I got 6HP21x from E60. All same..almost all same but 2 screws... I looked at 6HP21x from diesels... all same BUT inside torque converters and planetary
wheels just a BIT DIFFERENT ...different JUST A BIT almost same but different... your so called STALL RPMs would be different... so computer would be throwing car into malfunction...ALL the time
on any minor difference..IF you managed to FIT it. There are hundreds of 6hp21 variants, each has a DIFFERENT STUCKL number.

After 6 months of research (I am now in EU with this car), when NOONE could help at BEST TRANSMISSION shops I was forced to try
to re manufacture existing broken transmission, not even dream of getting same one from same model X5 E70 ...EVEN if I got it from
exact same car, the gearing would work yet MECHANTRONICS would have to be swapped as INPA/INSTA reprogramming the transmission...out of question
Reprogramming the mechantronics to the VIN etc.... nightmare unless you are the ZF factory!

The very least you need to MATCH stuckl number stamped on YOUR transmission.


It all was HELL for me and all I wanted was to get SAME transmission from another car, even same X5 E70. In US it will cost you ARM and a LEG.
I am in EU and BWMs are common junk here(well X5 E70 made in US but I am in Germany so you would think KNOW HOW is here...it was NOT)... it was cheaper in EU
but it was hard to overcome the issues...for comparison. it costs $150 to remove and reinstall transmission in E70. price in US for same type of time 'tinkering' to just try....
If I did not live in US for 25 years...I would not know that it is NOT $150..

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-05-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:32 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Agree with the nightmare part and most of the post, but not this part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadeusz.tomasze View Post
(previous owners listened to ZF/BMW and never changed OIL!).


..


BMW says the fluid is lifetime and doesn’t need changing. ZF recommends regular maintenance.
I went with the ZF recommendation. Transmission is too expensive of a component to roll the dice when planning on keeping the car for the long haul.


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  #4  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:42 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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i stand corrected then. But ZF should force BMW to keep the same line. As owner I am not gonna be running around to look for manuals to every pieces of stuff they crammed into their cars...like VALEO radiators and VALEO alternators... shall we keep chasing manuals for all those separately? I went over HELL with VALEO 250A alternator ..for some reason US cars had 250Amp and all EU versions...180A...

for me BMWs are cars cobbled up from parts made by 3rd parties... no sense of diligence that I see in Lexus and Toyota in making it all actually seamlessly line up.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:18 PM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadeusz.tomasze View Post
I think ....this would be a NIGHTMARE. I have X5 E70. My transmission broke down at 200K miles (previous owners listened to ZF/BMW and never changed OIL!).
200k on no fluid change is reasonable.

I think this is an interesting swap, like to have paddles shifting as well.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:27 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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i stand corrected then. But ZF should force BMW to keep the same line. As owner I am not gonna be running around to look for manuals to every pieces of stuff they crammed into their cars...like VALEO radiators and VALEO alternators... shall we keep chasing manuals for all those separately? I went over HELL with VALEO 250A alternator ..for some reason US cars had 250Amp and all EU versions...180A...

for me BMWs are cars cobbled up from parts made by 3rd parties... no sense of diligence that I see in Lexus and Toyota in making it all actually seamlessly line up.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:31 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzlbimmer View Post
200k on no fluid change is reasonable.

I think this is an interesting swap, like to have paddles shifting as well.
We have Toyota Camry Hybrid 2007 with about 500K miles. NO FLUID CHANGE.
Imagine that. I think German cars are WAY overpriced and senselessly over engineered.
I am in EU now. This was my last BMW. I have had issues with every BMW i ever had...
the door handles disintegrate even on those cars...leases...to own beyond lease term... SUICIDAL.
They cannot make things LAST and some ideas are just INSANELY CRAZY...like the orange key to disconnect transmission from
engine to pull car on truck... Toyota requires a BUTTON PRESS...BMW insanity of ABSOLUTE NONSENSICAL proportions.

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-06-2018 at 04:33 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2018, 06:32 PM
ard ard is offline
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so wait...why do you own it?
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:01 PM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
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So he can come on the BMW forums and complain about it every chance he can haha.
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:40 AM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
So he can come on the BMW forums and complain about it every chance he can haha.
OK come on...no more complaining on my part ...now I will only lie how BEAUTIFUL BMW are and NEVER FAIL.
(I cannot sell it. I took it to EU and in EU US cars are particularly hard to sell. I am stuck with the junk. This is the reality)

However, I appreciate an American forum to respect the right to freedom of speech and opinion! See my contributions on transmission swaps etc!

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 03:49 AM.
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2018, 04:01 AM
smassey321 smassey321 is offline
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I was excited to read this thread until I read this thread. Wow what a bunch of useless info. I would love to do this mod on my diesel as the eurpean LCI got the 8 speed. Issues to consider. Will the electronics support it? It could be as easy a a coding change. Will the engine ECU be confused? Both differentials need to be swapped out. Will the drive shafts need to be replaced (it looks like the front one is good). Does the transfer case bolt up from the 6 speed to the 8. Is the 6 the same length as the 8? Is the mount the same. And so on.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2018, 04:41 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
so wait...why do you own it?
+1
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:29 AM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadeusz.tomasze View Post
OK come on...no more complaining on my part ...now I will only lie how BEAUTIFUL BMW are and NEVER FAIL.
(I cannot sell it. I took it to EU and in EU US cars are particularly hard to sell. I am stuck with the junk. This is the reality)

However, I appreciate an American forum to respect the right to freedom of speech and opinion! See my contributions on transmission swaps etc!
No ones telling you to lie about your experience with BMW. You posted that you were warned against BMWs and you still went through with the purchase of your X5.

Sounds like you bought a high mileage vehicle that wasn't serviced regularly and are paying the price for it now. It seems like lots of your issues could have been avoided with proper research ahead of time.
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:36 AM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
No ones telling you to lie about your experience with BMW. You posted that you were warned against BMWs and you still went through with the purchase of your X5.

Sounds like you bought a high mileage vehicle that wasn't serviced regularly and are paying the price for it now. It seems like lots of your issues could have been avoided with proper research ahead of time.

I was just used to having a TOYOTA CAMRY HYBRID with hundred of 1000s of miles...and no issues while no service of transmission and only oil changes in engine... thats it. amazing.

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:38 AM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smassey321 View Post
I was excited to read this thread until I read this thread. Wow what a bunch of useless info. I would love to do this mod on my diesel as the eurpean LCI got the 8 speed. Issues to consider. Will the electronics support it? It could be as easy a a coding change. Will the engine ECU be confused? Both differentials need to be swapped out. Will the drive shafts need to be replaced (it looks like the front one is good). Does the transfer case bolt up from the 6 speed to the 8. Is the 6 the same length as the 8? Is the mount the same. And so on.

>I was excited to read this thread until I read this thread. Wow what a bunch of useless info.

Wow... maybe because few bother to post as the question posits a useless nonsense idea devoid of engineering savvy and knowledge of software in transmissions, ECUs and engines in todays world.

I would say,before you claim other post nonsense abswers you ponder before posting ridiculous nonsene questions devoid of ANY VIABILITY .

You cannot mod if without significant changes in transmission and mechanics software plus at least 4 of the ECU need to be entirely changed.
So WOW what abunch of useless info - useful hints but it takes intelligence to be able to understand it.

> I would love to do this mod on my diesel as the eurpean LCI got the 8 speed. Issues to >consider. Will the electronics support it?

they will not.

next question like your to post: can I fit a Honda Civic WING onto my BMW. This is just about same level of USEFULNESS. SO do not expect useful answers.

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 11:52 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:40 AM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
No ones telling you to lie about your experience with BMW. You posted that you were warned against BMWs and you still went through with the purchase of your X5.

Sounds like you bought a high mileage vehicle that wasn't serviced regularly and are paying the price for it now. It seems like lots of your issues could have been avoided with proper research ahead of time.

research had been done as you noted by those that warned me against getting a BMW...
mile to mile, service to service comparison to toyota. and you land up with a BMW that you regret.
AND car WAS serviced REGULARLY ACCORDING TO BMW schedule. BMW stated that TRANSMISSION OIL WAS NEVER TO BE CHANGED.
this car was 100% serviced as required by BMW. What is you point? That I did not service according to ZF manuals?
I never got them. BMW never offered one. Or you are just attacking me because this car company misled customers wrt proper
servicing of a transmissions - maybe they did not know themselves what they sell as they have no clue?

Hey...they should offer a subscription to bimmerfest to override their nonsense then with your preaching.
Why I own it? huh...no none wants to buy BMW with mileages a fraction of what I have on toyota camry hybrid.
I would gladly offload it. junk engineering in stone age of steam engines esp compared to toyota or tesla that I also own.

stick to the subject.

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:44 PM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadeusz.tomasze View Post
research had been done as you noted by those that warned me against getting a BMW...
mile to mile, service to service comparison to toyota. and you land up with a BMW that you regret.
AND car WAS serviced REGULARLY ACCORDING TO BMW schedule. BMW stated that TRANSMISSION OIL WAS NEVER TO BE CHANGED.
this car was 100% serviced as required by BMW. What is you point? That I did not service according to ZF manuals?
I never got them. BMW never offered one. Or you are just attacking me because this car company misled customers wrt proper
servicing of a transmissions - maybe they did not know themselves what they sell as they have no clue?

Hey...they should offer a subscription to bimmerfest to override their nonsense then with your preaching.
Why I own it? huh...no none wants to buy BMW with mileages a fraction of what I have on toyota camry hybrid.
I would gladly offload it. junk engineering in stone age of steam engines esp compared to toyota or tesla that I also own.

stick to the subject.
Simply search up BMW lifetime fluids and you'll quickly realize that it's BS. You fell for the marketing scheme of lifetime fluids and now you're pissed off that you had a failed transmission.

Do you know of any driveline fluids that lasts forever?

Every vehicle manufacturer has their fair share of problems. Don't even start with Tesla reliability

You keep saying research was done and you were warned against BMW. Yet you bought one and instead of getting rid of it before you left the US you decided to bring it with you to another country? You've got no one to blame but yourself here.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:22 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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>You keep saying research was done and you were warned against BMW. Yet you bought one >and instead of getting rid of it before you left the US you decided to bring it with you to >another country? You've got no one to blame but yourself here.

yes I brought BMW to GERMANY. How insane is that! to bring a GERMAN car to GERMANY and be shocked that it is such a pain to fix!

If I was not all about QUALITY GERMAN engineering and if I was not an engineer (yes computer science and mechanical engineering with a PhD at best US schools)
I would not believe...guess who offered me the "buying and ownership experience research"?

Fellow engineering PhD buddies who have gone through HUNDREDS of BMWs, MBes, Audis to the death of their transmissions and engines in test conditions.

>You've got no one to blame but yourself here.

Right. Your logic does sound like that of the designer of the transmission unlock key fumble in X5 E70s. Self to blame that BMWs are so unreliable juxtaposed with other brands. Here you go....impressive.
I suggest you post on the subject not on the 'religion of BMW ownership'. If you were in EU you would know what reputation BMW 2.0 diesels with timing chains mounted on the transmission side they have.
They break all the the time as they are like bicycle chans...to fix...you need to remove the engine... what engineering is that...single use throw away quality...
here we go BMW durability and quality. Next step. Look at door handles on an X5 E70 after 2-3 years or tail lights and how they leak water...in 3 years of ownership

Dough DeMuro..put it best...here







and respect my freedom of speech right as I respect yours

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:54 PM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
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You do not get it. Yes, you brought a German car to Germany that was built for the US MARKET. You also brought a problematic vehicle with you overseas when you could have cut your losses and moved on BEFORE you moved. Now you complain that you "can't sell it" because US cars are hard to sell in the EU. Well yeah, no sh!t Sherlock of course anyone with half a brain would rather buy a used car that was bought new locally and probably has lower mileage versus one that was imported from another country with 320,000+ km. Plus, the used car market is probably flooded with older used E70's over there in Germany so it's more than likely a buyers market.

Now, not only do you have a ~11 year old BMW that's more than likely out of warranty, you've also got one with high mileage. Who did you think would buy it? Would you buy an out of warranty BMW with high mileage? Probably not, unless you were an avid DIYer.

Re-read your own previous post, you thought a used transmission from a different model BMW would work in your X5 because it was the same generic transmission type. And you even pointed out that you failed to cross reference part numbers. So who's to blame? Your transmission made it to 320,000km, I'd say that's pretty damn good for NEVER HAVING THE FLUID CHANGED AT ALL as you claim. I've had Acura's and Honda's that had transmissions that failed or had weird jerky shifting problems with less than 200,000km with mixed city/highway commute.

Post on the subject and not 'religion of BMW ownership'? You already derailed this thread when you first posted your spiel on how your Toyota Camry hYbRiD is the king of reliability. And I agree with you there, Toyota's are generally more reliable than BMW's. German vehicles are generally known to require more maintenance overall than Japanese vehicles. This isn't a brand new concept, it's been this way for a long time now.

How am I not respecting your freedom of speech? Am I impeding your ability to respond? Just because I don't agree with some of your opinions doesn't mean I don't respect your freedom of speech so I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up. It's the internet, stay off of it if you can't handle when someone does not agree with you.

Last edited by J_ANT$; 12-07-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:04 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
You do not get it. Yes, you brought a German car to Germany that was built for the US MARKET.
.
Now, Most EU X5 are made in US and are brought to EU. You do not even understand the differences(none that matter at all for relaibility). FYI in my family there are 2 X5s. One bought in EU from EU dealer one from US I brought by me. Both same JUNK. BOTH made in US at the same SC plant. BOTH.

.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>You also brought a problematic vehicle with you overseas when you could have cut your >losses and moved on BEFORE you moved.
.
I brough FAMILY CAR from FAMILY member owned from NEW. Again you do not get ANYTHING at all here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
> Now you complain that you "can't sell it" because US cars are hard to sell in the EU.
.
Mostly because I have conscience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>Well yeah, no sh!t Sherlock of course anyone with half a brain would rather buy a used >car that was bought new locally and probably has lower mileage versus one that was >imported from another country with 320,000+ km. Plus, the used car market is probably >flooded with older used E70's over there in Germany so it's more than likely a buyers >market.
.
You obviously saw Germany in a postcard at best. I am from Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>Now, not only do you have a ~11 year old BMW that's more than likely out of warranty, >you've also got one with high mileage. Who did you think would buy it? Would you buy an >out of warranty BMW with high mileage? Probably not, unless you were an avid DIYer.
.
Family owned from 0 miles. get it. I bought it off a family member to be used by a teenager that wanted a bigger SUV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>Re-read your own previous post, you thought a used transmission from a different model BMW would work in your X5 because it was the same generic transmission type.
.
Dude, imagine I worked and designed transmission software for a major manufacturer. you do not get what the pint of my post was. do not tell me what I was thinking.
I am giving an example for the person asking question. You probably have no clue what a STUCKL number is and just feed off my post like a troll attributing your not understanding
to me confuding anything...I did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>And you even pointed out that you failed to cross reference part numbers.
.
No I did not. BMW did. They reference 6HP19z while thet put in 6HP21x in 2007 BMW X5 E70.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>So who's to blame?
.
Dude, get off my back focus on issues and do not tell me what I did wrong.
All you do is feed off what other write. provide some mertiful input without attacking people.
I tried to explicate the issues he will face trying to match transmission. Yes some of them could work despite different planetry gears if you has SAME CASE and reprogrammed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>Your transmission made it to 320,000km, I'd say that's pretty damn good for NEVER >HAVING THE FLUID CHANGED AT ALL as you claim. I've had Acura's and Honda's that >had transmissions that failed or had weird jerky shifting problems with less than >200,000km with mixed city/highway commute.
.
what is good for you is obviously not good for me. This si why you love BMW and consider them reliable. Just you have low standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post

>Post on the subject and not 'religion of BMW ownership'? You already derailed this thread >when you first posted your spiel on how your Toyota Camry hYbRiD is the king of >reliability.
.
Dude, my having to reply to your IDIOT post is derailing the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
>And I agree with you there, Toyota's are generally more reliable than BMW's. German >vehicles are generally known to require more maintenance overall than Japanese >vehicles. This isn't a brand new concept, it's been this way for a long time now.
.
really..your well maintained BMWs are best cars reliability wise....do you change the wipers (or diapers) daily on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
How am I not respecting your freedom of speech? Am I impeding your ability to respond? Just because I don't agree with some of your opinions doesn't mean I don't respect your freedom of speech so I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.

I suggest we do not continue off the subject. lets focus on the subject of the post.

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:17 PM
ard ard is offline
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Sigh.

__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #22  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:22 PM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
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Can't argue with a person who doesn't understand what I am trying to get at. I'm done here. I fed the troll. My bad guys.
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:26 PM
tadeusz.tomasze tadeusz.tomasze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_ANT$ View Post
Can't argue with a person who doesn't understand what I am trying to get at. I'm done here. I fed the troll. My bad guys.

you keep posting off the subject. this is trolling. I made posts with technical info describing the matching process and what one needs to be aware of.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO TECHNICAL INFO IN ANY OF YOUR POSTS.

Anyway cheers from Germany from a Californian. We go for the BEST and never SETTLE FOR JUNK.

Last edited by tadeusz.tomasze; 12-07-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:39 PM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Alberta, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 461
Mein Auto: '05 X3 3.0i, '08 X5 3.0si
Yeah because it's common sense that it would most likely be a lot of labour and money to try to match up a transmission that was never offered with a specific engine from the factory for a certain model. It doesn't take 6 months to figure this out. Can it be done? Yeah maybe. Is it worth it? Probably not. So good for you and your technical info.

Look at the post history, idiot. You chimed in about your Toyota's reliability before me or ard or anyone else had anything to say. So cut the crap and learn how to form complete sentences that make sense before you start trolling.
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  #25  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:49 PM
J_ANT$ J_ANT$ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Alberta, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 461
Mein Auto: '05 X3 3.0i, '08 X5 3.0si
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadeusz.tomasze View Post
Anyway cheers from Germany from a Californian. We go for the BEST and never SETTLE FOR JUNK.
Except for the fact you've settled for your lemon X5 instead of selling it like a person who thinks it's junk, would do. I get it, you've had a crappy experience with BMW.

Last edited by J_ANT$; 12-07-2018 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Edited to speak for myself.
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