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  #1  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:42 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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fuel injector maze for 2013 335i xdrive - help needed

Hi
2013 335i xdrive and have some questions about replacing fuel injectors. I am in Canada.

- new coils and plugs recently changed
- just had injector #1 replaced with a rebuild ($300 + $200 labour) plus $300 software update
- new software scan says I may have 2 more leaking injectors
- engine light back on and sometimes still rough start

Questions:
- mechanic says injectors are $500 each for new ones or $300 for rebuilds.
How come I see brand-name ones for about $110 new online? Are they just as good?

How much should it cost per new injector and hour(s) labour for each one installed?

Is is good to have all of the injectors replaced at 120k kilometers (80K miles) where I am at now?

Thanks

Last edited by bossman280; 01-21-2020 at 12:33 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2020, 11:54 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Hi
Never mind original questions as I have researched online and found the answers. Looks like there are interchangeable fuel injectors that are less expensive but just as good as OEM. Sorry that I could not delete the post.
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2020, 06:50 AM
southcoastguy southcoastguy is offline
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I did a quick search and found genuine fuel injectors for sale for $230.
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Old 01-25-2020, 10:21 AM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Thanks. I phoned BMW and each injector is about $600 (Canadian) with tax. You are right, you can find OEM for $200-300 each online.

I was also able to find interchangeable BosXX for about $100 each and may go that route.

The thing that gets me is that (according to BMW) no one can tell from the VIN what injector is required for this car as there are two possibilities - OEM 13647597870 for a EU5 or 13648625397 for a EU6 and you only know which one to replace when you remove the originals. Does that make sense?

I think I need the rarer OEM...397 and use a BosXX 62825 as a replacement. It took a lot of work to find the interchangeable part and I'm still not 100% sure. Is there a chart to use as a interchangeable reference? I called BocXX but that was a waste of time.

Also, do I have to buy new decouplers for each injector or does the mechanic just reuse whatever is there?

Thanks for your help.
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  #5  
Old 01-25-2020, 12:05 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Your engine needs either the EU5 or EU6 injector.
Manual says to query the DME with diagnostic software to determine which you have.
Not sure why you can't read PN off of injector.
May be easier to scan than to remove covers and see injectors.
They're available in the US for $70-$95. I suspect most US suppliers will ship to Canada. FCPEuro and others have good reputation
New decouplers are needed.
Looks like EU5 & EU6 injectors do not need DME coding. They are plug-n-play.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...70-13647597871
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ch-13647639994

Last edited by pshovest; 01-25-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2020, 10:29 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Thanks. Those two links are helpful to determine alternate injector part numbers to the OEM injectors.

I did find a supplier for BoXXh injectors in Canada at $90 each so that's a good price.

Still waiting for my independent mechanic to confirm whether I need the EU5 or EU6 injectors as he replaced 1 recently but has not gotten back to me. I can't believe that BMW was unable to tell me that which injector this car needs from my VIN.

Other than puling an injector or scan (which I won't do) I guess there is no other way to know the OEM part number, is there? What I want to do is buy the 5 replacement injectors first and then take them to my mechanic to install.
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2020, 09:09 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Shouldn't have to actually remove the injector to see the PN. With beauty cover removed, you should be able to take a picture of the number w/phone.
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2020, 03:40 PM
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If I had 2 additional leaking injectors I would change all of them though I would prefer a new non OEM/OEM brand over a rebuilt one.

At 89.9K miles I had 1 fuel injector changed by the dealer and for a while lost trust in taking it on a long drive thinking the others would need to be replaced soon. So far so good at 100K miles; eventually I've been able to take it about 3 hours away without any issues. I hope it holds up.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:18 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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pshovest, thanks. I took pictures as you suggested. Help still needed as I am going around in circles on this 2013 335i xdrive issue.

There are two possible injectors for this model: OEM 13647597870 for a EU5 or 13648625397 for a EU6. My mechanic says he replaced one injector with a 397 (the EU6 injector).

With great difficulty for me (ha ha!!) i took pictures of a couple of the injectors with my phone and there were several codes but the common code on both injectors is 0261500109, That is a code that appears to be equivalent to Bosch 62805 or OEM ...870. Am I correct in my assumption that it required the EU5 injector and not the EU6 version that my mechanic says it needs?

A parts seller on line said that for the EU6 version to be used, the car must have been manufactured after March 2013 but my car was made in 2012. If that advice is correct, then I do indeed need the EU5 injector. Not sure if that advice is sound.

Now I'm really confused as it seems my mechanic installed the wrong one. Is it possible that the EU6 version that he installed still fit? The two types of injectors are probably very similar.

Any help is appreciated.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:04 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Unbelievable. All injectors must be the same. (1) EU6 will not work properly with (5) EU5's. The EU6 must be replaced. If this injector is changed the other problems you have may go away. I'm a DIY guy and won't pre-preemptively replace good working parts. I maintain (4) Bimmers and replacing good parts is money down the toilet as far as I'm concerned. I would replace the bad injector(s) only. Most mechanics compare old and new parts & part numbers before installation. Your guy goofed. I don't believe you can simply install (5) new EU6 injectors to fix the issue. A 2012 build date almost certainly was shipped with EU5 injectors. Looks like the numbers you are seeing are the Bosch PN, not BMW's and that's OK. You should double check that you've got (5) EU5's and (1) EU6 by checking part numbers then talk to your mechanic. Not sure how "software scan shows (2) leaking injectors". Usual test is see misfire codes, then pull plugs to look for rich running or wet plugs, which often indicates leaking injectors. Let us know how you make out.
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:32 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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OK here's an update but problems continue.

Turns out the mechanic told me to buy the wrong injector so thanks to the help in this forum (previous posts), I was able to determine that an EU5 was required. So I bought 5 EU5 injectors to put into spots 2-6 for the shop mechanic to put in (BMW trained). Injector 1 had been replaced a few weeks ago with a rebuilt one.

Also, new spark plugs put in with the injectors (plus new coils in September). Yes, this is costing me a fortune.

Car started great (very smooth) and drove home and acceleration seems better. Engine light off.

Started the car later the same evening, engine light back on!!!!!

Back to the shop to scan codes in the morning. Could it be a bad senor or that an injector has to be reinstalled? Mechanic says that the 335i xdrive twin turbos are frustrating to get it right or is that their excuse?

The car just has 125K kilometers. I do not drive it hard.

I am very frustrated. Any comments or suggestions are welcome (not many German car mechanics close to me except for a dealership)?
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2020, 03:21 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Post the codes.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:21 AM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Hi again (2013 335i xdrive with 126K kilometers)
Back in the shop this week. They scanned and new the injectors and all vacuums have no error codes. Now that those are clear, error code(s) appear for throttle body and carbon issues (sorry, the mechanic does not give me precise codes). So they replaced 2 sensors and pulled the throttle body and cleaned it. Car is cold starting fine but what do you know, yellow light is back on after the 3rd cold start - again! Another $400 gone. Light comes on every time soon after they have serviced the car.

So they say that the car is fine to drive and think about next steps because light come on:
1) Mechanic implied that 2013 BMW dual turbos are very difficult / sensitive to deal with.
2) They said that engine is purring like a kitten but computer does not like some of the output codes. Yes, it does start & run much smoother with new injectors and plugs.
3) They said to consider putting in a new throttle body ($400 + 1-2 hours labor)
4) One of the mechanics said that the 2013 throttle bodies don't have a good reputation.
5) If new throttle body does not resolve the light on issues, then next step may have to get some type of extensive carbon cleaning with (walnut blast?) which perhaps only a dealer could do and could cost $1000.

I should note that this mechanic did update the software a few weeks ago. Could it be that the new software has specs that are too difficult for this model to meet and is generating error codes? I am just theorizing.

This car has not had a highway drive in months due to these problems. Could yellow light go out on its own if computer readings are good for awhile - e.g. after 10 good starts?

Advice on next steps would be appreciated.

Thank you.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2020, 04:15 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Tough to have confidence in the competence of the shop that told you to buy the wrong fuel injector.
Your car has a single turbo. It is not a dual turbo.
Post the part numbers of the sensors replaced. Should be on the receipt.
We can't help if we don't know the codes. Buy a code reader. Many like the Foxwell NT520 scanner. Read, google and post the codes. There are not many code surprises on a 7 year old Bimmer.
Consider paying dealer diagnostic fee to inspect car and estimate cost to repair. You are under no obligation to let them make the repair.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2020, 02:48 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Ok so the fault code (?) he wrote on the invoice is: 101F01 air mass system plausibility

parts replaced: intake m?? senors x 2: 13 62 7 599 042

I took the car and he light came back on after I paid the invoice and here I am today.

Does this help?

Please tell me more about the Foxwell; can a novice use it? Would this replace taking it to a BMW dealer as you suggested or are you recommending both - take it to a dealer for a repair quote as well as consider buying the diagnostic tool?
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2020, 04:38 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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How long have you owned?
Do you have a tune or CAI? If so, remove and see if code disappears.
Google the code. There are many hits, most are related to tunes.
Try posting in other F30 forums that have more traffic.
Scanner make you less reliant of having shop read codes. You'll see all of the codes, not just the ones the shop puts on the invoice.
If you have a tune, dealer may not want to get involved.
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Old 02-09-2020, 06:48 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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I have owned the car for almost 4 years. Got it at 70K kilometers and it now has 126K kilometers. I always use top brand-name premium gas.

It ran perfectly until this issue with the engine light and injectors. Looks like the injector change was required.

I looked up the fault code and it says for a fault code 101F01 in a N54:
Label: Air mass system, plausibility: calculated air volumes in air intake system implausible

The diagnosis monitors whether the ratio of the air mass flow calculated through the throttle valve position is plausible for the enclosed air mass flow.
Fault monitoring conditions:
The fault is detected if the ratio of the calculated air mass flow to the enclosed air mass flow exceeds a limit value.

Possible actions:
- If faults for monitoring of the voltage supply of the sensor system actuator system (5 V) are stored (tension outside valid range), then they must be rectified first.
- Check intake system and crankcase for tightness.
- Check connection of tank ventilation to intake system.
- Check throttle valve (contamination, carbon residue, icing).
- Check wiring harness between DME and intake pipe vacuum sensor.
- Check wiring harness between electromotive throttle controller and DME.
- Replace intake pipe vacuum sensor.
- Replace the electromotive throttle actuator.

Looks like the mechanic did check for at least some of those issues and did clean and reinstall the throttle bottle. They also changed the sensors.

Interestingly, it says that there is "no impact" from the fault. Looks like it is OK to drive for now and probably change the throttle as a next step.

Sound reasonable?

I will consider buying the Foxwell NT 510. Any other scanning tool recommendations other than the NT510?

All comments are appreciated. I am learning a lot.

Great site and great help.
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  #18  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:02 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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You don't have the N54, you have the N55. The N55 has a MAF, the N54 doesn't.
So intake leak, defective MAF, bad throttle body or carbon buildup on intake valves are possible causes, UNLESS you have a tune or CAI. Having any of these opens up other possible causes.
Are you positive you don't have a tune?
A walnut blast is $3-400 in US at an indy shop.
I don't have the Foxwell, I use ISTA+ on a laptop. The Foxwell seems to get good reviews.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:04 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Sorry, not sure what you mean by a "tune" or "CAI". Do you mean a scanner?

The info I posted about fault 101F01 was from an internet search on BMW codes and the fault code was what the mechanic wrote on the last invoice.

Yes, the mechanic did tell me the wrong code for the injector part (it is an EU5 not EU6) but that was corrected and he did put in the right parts all along. It appears that he also checked everything related to the code and the next steps would be to replace MAF sensor, then throttle body and finally consider a walnut cleaning.

I'll let you know how things turn out.
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Old 03-28-2020, 02:42 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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2013 BMW 335 xdrive
Background:
- rough starts (almost stalling) and engine light came on in early January
- new plugs, coils, injectors and engine light back on with code 101F01 but starts & runs smoothly.
- mechanic cleaned throttle body and switched out related sensors. mechanic cleared the code so that engine light went out but it came back on again within a minute or two with same fault code.
- started well and drove very smoothly but light stayed on; next steps were to replace throttle body and possibly a walnut cleaning

A surprise:
I drove it maybe 5-10 times including a 100 kilometer highway drive; all of a sudden, next time I started it, ENGINE LIGHT WAS OFF!
- I have driven it for over a week and engine light remains off. Running very smoothly.
What gives? Does the software require a number of clean, problem-free starts before turning off the engine light on its own?
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  #21  
Old 03-28-2020, 03:03 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman280 View Post
2013 BMW 335 xdrive
Background:
- rough starts (almost stalling) and engine light came on in early January
- new plugs, coils, injectors and engine light back on with code 101F01 but starts & runs smoothly.
- mechanic cleaned throttle body and switched out related sensors. mechanic cleared the code so that engine light went out but it came back on again within a minute or two with same fault code.
- started well and drove very smoothly but light stayed on; next steps were to replace throttle body and possibly a walnut cleaning

A surprise:
I drove it maybe 5-10 times including a 100 kilometer highway drive; all of a sudden, next time I started it, ENGINE LIGHT WAS OFF!
- I have driven it for over a week and engine light remains off. Running very smoothly.
What gives? Does the software require a number of clean, problem-free starts before turning off the engine light on its own?
101F01=Air mass system, plausibility: calculated air volumes in air intake system implausible

Since your mechanic cleaned the throttle body, and probably replaced/cleaned MAF sensor, it would take some accumulated miles for ECU/DME to collect new data to recompute.
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:45 PM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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OK. That make sense We did a lot on this car so it was frustrating that the engine light stayed on but then I was very happy when it magically went off. That is a good learning about some problem-free starts and mileage required to get things recognized as "fixed".

Any other comments? If not, then this case is closed.
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2020, 08:06 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Unlike N54 engines, N55's have both MAP and MAF sensors. Plausability code means the measured air mass doesn't agree with some other indicator of air flow. If there is an intake leak that causes air to bypass the MAF, there could be a plausability error. Carbon buildup on intake valves restricts air flow into engine and will result in MAP and MAF sensors showing different air flows. The DME via the O2 sensors can compensate for many of these plausibility errors, hence no driveability issues. There is a flow difference threshold beyond which, a CEL will be set. If CBU is the cause it's more likely to trigger code after high rpm runs where the difference will be greatest.
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Old 03-29-2020, 09:41 AM
bossman280 bossman280 is offline
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Hi.
That is a very technical answer but is there seems to be an assumption that there is still an issue and there may not be. Actually, the light went out after a solid 100KM drive at high speed.

The performance had been a mess all of a sudden with rough starts, outdated software and injectors that needed replacing badly. Before the mechanic got to the 101f01 code, there were other error codes. After updating the software version, changing the injectors and plugs, the 101f01 code remained. He then changed some of the sensors, checked for leaks and cleaned the throttle body. The engine light remained on until I drove it 5-10 times. I had a similar error with another German car I had whereby an engine light remained on after the problem had been fixed. The light went off after several good starts and a bit of driving. I think this is what happened in this case and as highlighted by Namelessman.

Hopefully, the light won't be back on any time soon.

Thank you everyone for comments and help.
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