Video module. Video INPUT possible? - Page 2 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #26  
Old 03-01-2018, 11:26 PM
rochahe rochahe is offline
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Hi,

I am starting to explore several options...

Is the back camera input atuomatic?
If i connect a camera to the RV Camera input, will it switch automaticaly to the camera image?
I know i have to connect the trigger switch (to pin 17 i think)... but will it work without codding? I checked ncsexpert and i do not see any option for this... There are options for dvd, nigth vision, vÝdeo/tv, Mp3, rear entertainment, etc.... but no RV camera....
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  #27  
Old 03-01-2018, 11:26 PM
rochahe rochahe is offline
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Hi,

I am starting to explore several options...

Is the back camera input automatic?
If i connect a camera to the RV Camera input, will it switch automaticaly to the camera image?
I know i have to connect the trigger switch (to pin 17 i think)... but will it work without codding? I checked ncsexpert and i do not see any option for this... There are options for dvd, nigth vision, vÝdeo/tv, Mp3, rear entertainment, etc.... but no RV camera....
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  #28  
Old 03-05-2018, 12:51 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Hi guys,

Apologies for the pictures missing from my old posts, i will have to retrieve them from photobucket (if possible) and host them elsewhere.

With regards to the video inputs on the video module, Im pretty sure you wont be able to get any video switched through using the DVD CVBS input unless the actual DVD changer hardware is present and on the MOST network. I have read some old documents from BMW saying there is a possibility for video input as an 'individual' option but I have never seen it.

Stuart
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2008 F01 - Sophistograu with Saddle Brown Leather
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Night Vision, Digital TV, Heated M-Sport Steering Wheel + Paddles, Combox, 6NF Baseplate, 6NR Apps, Rear Entertainment System, Automatic Boot Close and Surround View Cameras.
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  #29  
Old 03-05-2018, 12:56 PM
irish745 irish745 is offline
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Welcome back pal .i must investigate this as i have the indiviual twin tvs in the rear the proper idrive screens same as the fond screen and i think it still has the sgfd module and then the signal is split via a lvds splitter and sent to the screens

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  #30  
Old 03-05-2018, 03:20 PM
rochahe rochahe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochahe View Post
Hi,

I am starting to explore several options...

Is the back camera input automatic?
If i connect a camera to the RV Camera input, will it switch automaticaly to the camera image?
I know i have to connect the trigger switch (to pin 17 i think)... but will it work without codding? I checked ncsexpert and i do not see any option for this... There are options for dvd, nigth vision, vÝdeo/tv, Mp3, rear entertainment, etc.... but no RV camera....
Hi Stuart,

Can you help me with this? Does the TV tuner switches to the reverse image?
One more thing.... The sound output from the tv tuner is by fiber optic?

Thanks in advance....
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  #31  
Old 03-06-2018, 07:17 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartjohn24 View Post
Hi guys,

Apologies for the pictures missing from my old posts, i will have to retrieve them from photobucket (if possible) and host them elsewhere.

With regards to the video inputs on the video module, Im pretty sure you wont be able to get any video switched through using the DVD CVBS input unless the actual DVD changer hardware is present and on the MOST network. I have read some old documents from BMW saying there is a possibility for video input as an 'individual' option but I have never seen it.

Stuart
Hi,

Are there any solutions to get video through the stock VM?
I was just considering to retrofit rear entertainment and found on ebay stock OEM DVD player which has no connectors with MOST, only CVBS plugs.
I wonder whether it is not possible to use video signal through stock VM.

My earlier thought were even that to retrofit rear view or even TopView or side view cameras should be practically possible,if we have CVBS signal from a respective device.
I have TRSVC set from e70, and would really like to get the signal to my Control Display...

I understand that RearViewCamera even in a more advanced way than oem retrofit is already done.

Cimdahers

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  #32  
Old 03-06-2018, 07:57 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartjohn24 View Post
Hi guys,

Apologies for the pictures missing from my old posts, i will have to retrieve them from photobucket (if possible) and host them elsewhere.

With regards to the video inputs on the video module, Im pretty sure you wont be able to get any video switched through using the DVD CVBS input unless the actual DVD changer hardware is present and on the MOST network. I have read some old documents from BMW saying there is a possibility for video input as an 'individual' option but I have never seen it.

Stuart
Maybe there still is available that old BMW document somewhere?

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  #33  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:07 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Maybe there still is available that old BMW document somewhere?

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Yes they are available. That's where I originally got the idea.
Here is a link to where I have collected many interesting documents about the car among other things.
I can't remember exactly which one that states that but it should be in there.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...WtDbEowclItUDA

But I still haven't found any car that's using that input on the VM. They only utilize ether the DVD or NIVI input on the VM or the input on the navigation computer.

I haven't found any system that let's you have more than 2 (FBAS) inputs without hijacking other wires (like the reverse camera) sadly.

And I don't have the gear to try and sniff the MOST signal to see how it triggers the different functions.

My easiest solution would be trying a dvb-t modulator and make the input show up as a TV channel with both sound and video

Last edited by vibbelito; 03-11-2018 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Added link
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  #34  
Old 03-27-2018, 03:04 PM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Hi

Little offtopic

Retrofitted MMC - DVD multimedia changer.

Picture shows very dark and colors blue something red and very very vaguely, hardly can see anything.

INPA shows an error only in VM
A390
See pic.

Audio just fine. All controls available.


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  #35  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:03 PM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Solved.
One profi-Guy helped me, he has figured out that WDS has error and PIN allocation for CVBS video wires at DvD socket is not correct.
He changed CVBS shield wire from 13 to 18. EBA retrofit installation guidance shows right PINs 7 and 18 at X10389, but not 7 and 13 is right as in WDS (or TIS)
Everything works, picture clear..
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:02 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Is there someone here that would know where to begin to rewrite the mmi software code?

to include a different option (AV in) to be selected in the mmi wich would change to another video input on the video module that is only in use with different equipment configuration but should theoretically still be available to switch to.

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Yesterday I looked into an old known xolmatic.com webpage of a spanish guy.
Under xe65 project there is a CAN analyser used. As per google translate I couldn't understand the details, but assumed the guy can do a hell with his head and hands. Even enabled night vision on computer, and connected a PC to e65... although some time has passed since then...

BTW, under TIS have found Video module PINout description table (below), which led ne to think that there are PINs available for individual input under pin8 and 17. Remember that this was suggested by StuartJohn.
Maybe that's a clue in addition...



https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ystems/1zzikjt

*

*

Pin assignment for connector X18804, 18-pin

Video module*5

Type:

Pin

Type

ECE

RGB

DRIVE

Description*

*

E*= Input*
x*= Assigned

For current specifications regarding pin assignments, please refer to BMW*diagnosis system

1

E

x

x

x

FBAS signal from night-vision camera

2

---

---

---

---

---

3

E

x

x

x

FBAS signal from DVD changer

4

---

---

---

---

---

5

E

---

x

x

Red-green-blue wire earth for external navigation system

6

---

---

---

---

---

7

---

---

---

---

---

8

E

---

---

x

FBAS signal from external video source (via AUX-in connection)

9

---

---

---

---

---

10

E

x

x

x

FBAS wire earth for night-vision camera

11

E

x

x

x

FBAS wire earth for DVD changer

12

E

---

x

x

Red*75****937;, input for external navigation system

13

E

---

x

x

Green*75****937;, input for external navigation system, simultaneously synchronous impulse

14

E

---

x

x

Blue 75****937;, input for external navigation system

15

--

---

---

---

---

16

--

---

---

---

---

17

E

---

---

x

FBAS wire earth for external video source (via AUX-in connection)

18

E

---

x

x

Synchronisation pulse from Japan navigation system (if fitted):

The JNAV has an external synchronisation pulse.

*




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  #37  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:12 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Yesterday I looked into an old known xolmatic.com webpage of a spanish guy.
Under xe65 project there is a CAN analyser used. As per google translate I couldn't understand the details, but assumed the guy can do a hell with his head and hands. Even enabled night vision on computer, and connected a PC to e65... although some time has passed since then...

BTW, under TIS have found Video module PINout description table (below), which led ne to think that there are PINs available for individual input under pin8 and 17. Remember that this was suggested by StuartJohn.
Maybe that's a clue in addition...



https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ystems/1zzikjt

*

*
Doesn't the car car communicate with the Video module via MOST fiber optics and not CAN?
But do you have a link to that site?

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  #38  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:25 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Doesn't the car car communicate with the Video module via MOST fiber optics and not CAN?
But do you have a link to that site?

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I gues there is a difference between the meaning of CAN bus system analysis and CAN socket... etc. Don't judge me about this...

http://www.xolmatic.com/xprojects/xe65.htm

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  #39  
Old 04-25-2018, 08:21 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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I found this regarding to change the code from
http://revtor.be/ncsdummy/ncsdummy.pdf

Quote:
4.2. NFS files
4.2.1. Updating checksums in NFS files
Unlike all other functionality of NCS Dummy, the NFS file checksum updater is not related to NCS Expert but
NFS/WinKFP. The NCS in NCS Expert stands for new coding system whereas NFS stands for new flash system.
Coding is changing the settings (parameters) of a module. Flashing is updating the actual software (firmware)
of a module.
It is outside the scope of this manual to explain working with NFS/WinKFP, but for those who want to
perform binary firmware modifications without resorting to EEPROM programmers or third party flashing
software and interfaces NCS Dummy can provide a helping hand. NFS/WinKFP refuses to flash modified files,
but you can circumvent that by using NCS Dummy to update the checksums in the modified files. NCS
Dummy supports updating checksums in NFS data files (*.0DA), NFS program files (*.0PA) and NFS NAAB
boot update description files (*.0BA). Below is an excerpt of an NFS data file.
;==========================================
;Austausch-Datei Daten
;==========================================
$REFERENZ 01118300BE02 2
:020000020000FC
:020000040000FA
:1000000042804E7B08012E4031FC8000FB4021FCE9
:10001000FFFFE000FB4431FC0000FB404EB9000054
:100020004C9A4EB900004D7831FCFFC0FB0431FC06
:100030000000FB00307CC000303C037F429851C878
:10004000FFFC21FCFFFFFFFFCAB611FC0001CB5CE7
:100050006000482C48E7C0C0007C070048F81C043A
:10006000C4885238C4B90C380001C4B9662411FCE4
:100070000001C6740C2F0020001067080C2F002709
:100080000010660E11FC0000C67431CFC4BA4FEFE9
:10009000FFE46100662452B8C4986B00132A5378B9
:020000020000FC
:020000040000FA
:00460010AA
$CHECKSUMME 02B2 S
:00000001FF
Lines starting with a semicolon (;) are comments and ignored, lines starting with a colon (:) are a derivative
of the Intel HEX file format for binary dumps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_HEX) and lines
starting with a dollar sign ($) are special keywords for NFS/WinKFP. Each Intel HEX line ends with a checksum
byte, each special keyword has a single checksum character appended to its value and each NFS file has
special keyword $CHECKSUMME which contains a full-file checksum. NCS Dummy recalculates all of these
checksums and (if necessary) asks the user to update the file.
wich can be helping.

Last edited by vibbelito; 04-25-2018 at 08:24 AM.
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  #40  
Old 09-25-2018, 05:38 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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I have not given up yet and is still looking for a possible solution and was able to get a picture on both screens when broadcasting a playstation 2 as a TV channel with a modulator but the picture wasn't so great and no sound was coming through and it wast causing pretty bad distortion in my sound system.

Anyways I have also looked deeper into if there is a hidden option in the coding to enable it like with what they did with the Video in motion. Since there is talk about a possible (individual) input in the BMW training materials. But I haven't actually come around to try this method due to lack of time and knowledge of how the coding parameters are built up. Even though I have figured much of it out thanks to Revtors NCS Dummy guide. I have only done some basic examination of the visible code and haven't found anything obvious like an empty address section close to the other similar options.

I have also thought about setting everything up on a test bench to speed things up but that's probably out of my league.

Please feel free to fill me in on the details of how the coding parameters work and the addresses. Click image for larger version

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  #41  
Old 09-26-2018, 12:52 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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I found this comment by Stuart himself in his thread about building a reverse camera.

Quote:
*The hardware itself is pretty straight forward, it's the software that's the clever bit.*But I'm interested, I will have to investigate how much I can learn from reverse engineering one of the MOST modules. I STARTED WITH THE VIDEO MODULE SOME TIME AGO AND UNDERSTOOD HOW IT SENT THE CHANNEL INFORMATION TO THE MMI JUST BY SNIFFING THE DATA ON THE I2C BUS BETWEEN THE MOST CONTROLLER AND THE PROCESSOR.*Sadly I sold my old CD changer but I could take my iPod interface apart if needs be!*Stuart
So maby, just maby I could be able to sniff and isolate the different video switch messages the same way if I'm lucky.

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  #42  
Old 10-03-2018, 09:12 AM
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Well I did some experiments today and ripped out my navigation computer and pulled out the composite cable from the NIVI and put in my own and as expected when I turned on the night-vision my input showed up on the idrive, although in black and white.. Yikes... but the cool thing with using the navi input I was able to use ether the normal 16:9 view or the full screen view with no line where the info window is normally separated from the other part of the display. When you use something like a NAVtv that line is still there when you select "full screen" which leads me to think that it is added by the idrive screen normally.

But using the NIVI screen I can still use the AUX input for sound and the picture isn't bad considering it's black and whit.

I then tried to connect my ps3 to the DVD video input on the VM without removing the DVD wires which just created a mess when it wanted to display both inputs at the same time but I guess I could buy a cheap composite video switch and call it a day but that's not how I do it.

I have started to try and disassemble the program code for the MMI to convert it back to C code and add my own parameters but if I will ever be able to it will take a while without the source code.Click image for larger version

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  #43  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:03 AM
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As I have never seen any pictures of this on the internet I thought that I would share these of the Inside of the rear monitor LCD display. ( rear entertainment system)

I opened it to see if it would be possible to split the LVDS signal and then convert it to FBAS and install 2 separate screens in the backrests.

I have really no idea what everything is inside of this except the thick black wire which is the 8pin (10pin 2 unused) lvds connection and I don't know what that gray cable is
It also seems like the lcd is made by sharp but I could not make out any model number as it was -10░C outside.

I am not entirely sure how lcds are driven but I think that this board takes the rgb lvds (10pin 8 used although in the wiring diagram it has 10 wired up and in the system overview there are only 8)and converters it to the right frequency and screen size and then outputs it to the LCD via a 30pin lvds cable that I suspect is a standard lvds pin out and signaling so I think this is where the signals can easily be converted to hdmi or what ever. Instead of the proprietary 8pin lvds thing they have going on that it's impossible to find a converter for. Anyway my quest continues.Click image for larger version

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  #44  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:18 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Wow. Thanks!
I was just thinking to split LVDS signal by my self as well. I wanted to buy two aftermarket monitors, but stuck with understanging how to convert the LVDS into CVBS or just split lvds (if found the right monitors witj right lvds inputs. I was considering also to open the back of the rear control display. But You did it already, thanks.

Keep on.
In between I have other querie in re rear screen. When I fold ot down, it cuts short something in the wires and screen switches off and all audio disappears. Sone cable probably. And was just considering to open the back cover.

Regards

Cimdahers

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  #45  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:27 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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In between, it really sux that my DVD image cannot be switched to full screen, and with rear compartment screen insta***316;ed video cannot be together with navigation in front. Navigation switches off and the smaller window turns black or empty. It better would be filled with the video picture then.

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  #46  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
In between, it really sux that my DVD image cannot be switched to full screen, and with rear compartment screen insta***316;ed video cannot be together with navigation in front. Navigation switches off and the smaller window turns black or empty. It better would be filled with the video picture then.

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Yep the only thing that's able to go full screen in the front without any lines and use navigation at the same time is the night-vision which is black and white sadly.

As for the switch off function I did not see anything but I suspect it's just a simple ON/OFF switch.

I was thinking of installing something like these android screens that looks like the OEM facelift F01 screens Click image for larger version

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  #47  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:56 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Yes, exactly my thoughts re android screens. Probably not the OEM ones, but in case it has lvds connection I should consider this as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Yep the only thing that's able to go full screen in the front without any lines and use navigation at the same time is the night-vision which is black and white sadly.

As for the switch off function I did not see anything but I suspect it's just a simple ON/OFF switch.

I was thinking of installing something like these android screens that looks like the OEM facelift F01 screens Attachment 829255Attachment 829257Attachment 829259Attachment 829261Attachment 829263

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  #48  
Old 11-26-2018, 02:35 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Hi, again.
Have You considered also retrofitting a newer apliance to existing video module?
I mean e65 has CVBS signals mostly or rgb. Newer car models FBAS, RGB and LVDS etc.
Most probably I am mistaken, but googling around suggests me that CVBS and FBAS are actually (if not the same then) very similar. But CVBS in our e65 has two wires - signal and screen, but newer three - signal, ground and screen.
For example night vision of the second generation has 3 video wire leads, but e65 just two.

Are there big differences between them?
I am asking because I have an e70 TopView caneras with the ECU, but video output comes from the ECU as FBAS with 3 wires according to TIS.
I consider this as an alternative to possible rearview camera rerofit.

Regards,

Cimdahers

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  #49  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:39 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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Do you mean like from a newer mode? No I haven't because of the possible incompatibility and different ways of communicating with the control units.

From my understanding CVBS and FBAS is the exact same FBAS is just the German word for it. But I have never heard of a 3 wire composite signal unless mabey balanced signaling.

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Old 11-29-2018, 03:44 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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I did some quick googling and found what the chips are on the rear display board. One is an LVDS to parallel TTL converter and another is the can bus communication and a smaller one that is a Dual Low-Drop Voltage Regulatorsnls129d.pdfInfineon-TLE4470-DS-v01_20-EN.pdfMB90F497G.pdf

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