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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #101  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:57 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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LVDS to CVBS?

Vibbelito,

I wanted to ask You a favour for some time already. Now, i am again at my desktop computer to write longer texts again..
Once I started to look after the individual rear monitor equipment on the seats. Originals are rare and cost a fortune, in addition I would say that already rather outdated.
Therefore, I started to look at aftermarket Android options, however none of the aftermarket screens are with LVDS input, obviously. However, I still want my BMW OEM rear menu and video available at my rear screens in addition to modern android screen capabilities.

I found on ETK that there is an LVDS signal splitter used for rear screens. Manufacture by Haberl electronics.
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E6..._infotainment/
I even found a picture of selling item in Poland, but nobody responds.

Anyway, splitting us not enough, probably there are no many (if any at all) aftermarket options with LVDS input capabilities.
Therefore I wonder isn't it possible to convert LVDS back to CVBS?
You had some investigations with Your rear view screen and MMIGT, and maybe You already have figured it out...
It would be good to split the output from MMIGT which goes out to Rear Screen, and somehow convert an LVDS signal to video format which an aftermarket screen tablet would be capable to take.
I contacted one Chinese manufacturer again, and the contact responded that it would be possible and they would be ready to make a converting cable, but I have to define specifications. What are the PINs, input signals and what output?
Have You any thoughts on that?Oher considerations? Options?
I would be very appreciated.
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  #102  
Old 04-29-2019, 01:02 PM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Vibbelito,



I wanted to ask You a favour for some time already. Now, i am again at my desktop computer to write longer texts again..

Once I started to look after the individual rear monitor equipment on the seats. Originals are rare and cost a fortune, in addition I would say that already rather outdated.

Therefore, I started to look at aftermarket Android options, however none of the aftermarket screens are with LVDS input, obviously. However, I still want my BMW OEM rear menu and video available at my rear screens in addition to modern android screen capabilities.



I found on ETK that there is an LVDS signal splitter used for rear screens. Manufacture by Haberl electronics.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E6..._infotainment/

I even found a picture of selling item in Poland, but nobody responds.



Anyway, splitting us not enough, probably there are no many (if any at all) aftermarket options with LVDS input capabilities.

Therefore I wonder isn't it possible to convert LVDS back to CVBS?

You had some investigations with Your rear view screen and MMIGT, and maybe You already have figured it out...

It would be good to split the output from MMIGT which goes out to Rear Screen, and somehow convert an LVDS signal to video format which an aftermarket screen tablet would be capable to take.

I contacted one Chinese manufacturer again, and the contact responded that it would be possible and they would be ready to make a converting cable, but I have to define specifications. What are the PINs, input signals and what output?

Have You any thoughts on that?Oher considerations? Options?

I would be very appreciated.
Well I've been down this road back and forth but haven't had the time to really dive into it. But yeah I have found some things. For one I have talked to haberl Electronic but they won't disclose any details about the splitter and won't sell me one directly either. I to have looked at that splitter for sale on allegro but they don't ship to Sweden and I wasn't to interested to find someone in Poland to order it for me and then ship to me although my Mother has a friend that is polish so it could probably be arranged.
Irish745 on this forum actually have this splitter in his car and has promised to take some pictures of it if he can open it up without breaking it when he finds it in his car.

I have been searching for a way to split the lvds signal in some other way and have found some things. I got some help from a guy over at this forum so please read this!
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...litter.155888/
I have really no experience in designing and building a circuit and so this is way past my comfort zone and therefore I haven't done much more.

A document about the drop link configuration (splitter)
snla157.pdf

But yeah I have also been trying to see if there is a way of converting it to either cvbs or HDMI but I haven't made any progress there.



Now to the signals and that stuff (if I remember correctly).

This is where the front and rear mmi are different so I will focus on the rear mmi only.

The navi/TV signals are input as RGsB to this converter

That converts it to digital RGB and sends it on to this

Where the menus and navi/tv signals are combined in the xilinx FPGA and output as 21 bits of CMOS/TTL (I think) to this

Which converts it into three LVDS data streams. A phase-locked transmit clock is transmitted in parallel with the data streams over a fourth LVDS link. Every cycle of the

transmit clock 21 bits of input data are sampled and transmitted.

This signal is described as differential RGB in tis.
From tis
Quote:
LVDS data wire
LVDS stands for ”Low Voltage Differential Signalling”.
There is always an LVDS data wire between the control unit for the display and the screen (except E83, E85, E86):
LVDS is a special technology for fast and secure data transmission:
There are 2 wires for each signal. The signal is transmitted positively on one wire, negatively on the other (inverted). This means that each pair of wires is electrically neutral.
*
Interference from outside has*no*effect on the signal transmission: such interference affects both wires equally. The signal information is thus unaffected. This is because: The control unit processes the difference between the positive and negative signals. This difference remains unchanged even in the event of interference from outside.
The LVDS data wire for the television consists of the following wires:

2 wires for red

2 wires for green

2 wires for blue

2 earth wires

Screening

The synchronised pulses are transmitted on the wire for image signals.
Her is tis wiring diagram https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...onitor/nnxGCze

It is then sent out to the screen over the lvds cable where it is received by a DS90CR216.
The DS90CR216 receiver converts the LVDS data streams back into 21 bits of CMOS/TTL data. At a transmit clock frequency of 66 MHz, 21 bits of TTL data are transmitted at a rate of 462 Mbps per LVDS data channel. Using a 66 MHz clock, the data throughput is 1.386 Gbit/s (173 Mbytes/s).



Although it looks like only 4 leads are used?


This is as much as I know at the moment without going in with some scope and measure the signals. Hope this helps and let me know if I need to go deeper into something or clarify.

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  #103  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:26 PM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Well I've been down this road back and forth but haven't had the time to really dive into it. But yeah I have found some things. For one I have talked to haberl Electronic but they won't disclose any details about the splitter and won't sell me one directly either. I to have looked at that splitter for sale on allegro but they don't ship to Sweden and I wasn't to interested to find someone in Poland to order it for me and then ship to me although my Mother has a friend that is polish so it could probably be arranged.
Irish745 on this forum actually have this splitter in his car and has promised to take some pictures of it if he can open it up without breaking it when he finds it in his car.

I have been searching for a way to split the lvds signal in some other way and have found some things. I got some help from a guy over at this forum so please read this!
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...litter.155888/
I have really no experience in designing and building a circuit and so this is way past my comfort zone and therefore I haven't done much more.

A document about the drop link configuration (splitter)
Attachment 849955

But yeah I have also been trying to see if there is a way of converting it to either cvbs or HDMI but I haven't made any progress there.



Now to the signals and that stuff (if I remember correctly).

This is where the front and rear mmi are different so I will focus on the rear mmi only.

The navi/TV signals are input as RGsB to this converter

That converts it to digital RGB and sends it on to this

Where the menus and navi/tv signals are combined in the xilinx FPGA and output as 21 bits of CMOS/TTL (I think) to this

Which converts it into three LVDS data streams. A phase-locked transmit clock is transmitted in parallel with the data streams over a fourth LVDS link. Every cycle of the

transmit clock 21 bits of input data are sampled and transmitted.

This signal is described as differential RGB in tis.
From tis

Her is tis wiring diagram https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...onitor/nnxGCze

It is then sent out to the screen over the lvds cable where it is received by a DS90CR216.
The DS90CR216 receiver converts the LVDS data streams back into 21 bits of CMOS/TTL data. At a transmit clock frequency of 66 MHz, 21 bits of TTL data are transmitted at a rate of 462 Mbps per LVDS data channel. Using a 66 MHz clock, the data throughput is 1.386 Gbit/s (173 Mbytes/s).



Although it looks like only 4 leads are used?


This is as much as I know at the moment without going in with some scope and measure the signals. Hope this helps and let me know if I need to go deeper into something or clarify.

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Wow, thank You!
Not sure I understood everything, but I will dig a litlle into this writeup in coming weekend.
Hope You will not be angry if I use these materials and send some parts for the inquiry to the chinese manudacturer.

What is Your progress with the process of reading out the chip. Have You got the reader? And adapter?

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  #104  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:51 PM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Wow, thank You!
Not sure I understood everything, but I will dig a litlle into this writeup in coming weekend.
Hope You will not be angry if I use these materials and send some parts for the inquiry to the chinese manudacturer.

What is Your progress with the process of reading out the chip. Have You got the reader? And adapter?

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
Haha I don't even understand everything so I don't expect anyone else to do it either at first glance. No I won't be angry, it would be rather awesome if this converter is something that can be done so I would be really interested in getting my hands on it if successful!

Well yesterday I ordered the Chinese flash reader/programmer with the appropriate tsop48 adapter so it will probably arrive in a few weeks and then I aslo have to buy a hot air soldering station.

As for the Jtag interface I haven't done much in the past few weeks since I fried the FPGA in the rear MMI. Until yesterday when I soldered on the OEM like connector.



Lauterbach (OEM supplier for the debugging interface) said that they can supply everything necessary for jtag (H-UDI) at the low price of just 4000 euro Haha so probably not.. unless we can go together as a group and buy it.

I just have the bus pirate but we're having something of a hard time setting up the interface to talk to the CPU

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  #105  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:56 PM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Haha I don't even understand everything so I don't expect anyone else to do it either at first glance. No I won't be angry, it would be rather awesome if this converter is something that can be done so I would be really interested in getting my hands on it if successful!

Well yesterday I ordered the Chinese flash reader/programmer with the appropriate tsop48 adapter so it will probably arrive in a few weeks and then I aslo have to buy a hot air soldering station.

As for the Jtag interface I haven't done much in the past few weeks since I fried the FPGA in the rear MMI. Until yesterday when I soldered on the OEM like connector.



Lauterbach (OEM supplier for the debugging interface) said that they can supply everything necessary for jtag (H-UDI) at the low price of just 4000 euro Haha so probably not.. unless we can go together as a group and buy it.

I just have the bus pirate but we're having something of a hard time setting up the interface to talk to the CPU

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I was just thinking that my reader is useless at my home. I don't think i will use it. I could send it to You. However it does not have the 48pin adaper, I think...

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  #106  
Old 04-30-2019, 12:15 AM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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Oh if only I would have known that yesterday I could have bought a cas instead to build a test bench. To flash and code over obd. The mmi needs to see terminal R (I think) to boot and even send power to the CPU in the first place. Thanks to Stuartjohn24 we know how the power supply works in the MMI.

Anyway in some time I will build something like this:




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  #107  
Old 04-30-2019, 12:28 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Oh if only I would have known that yesterday I could have bought a cas instead to build a test bench. To flash and code over obd. The mmi needs to see terminal R (I think) to boot and even send power to the CPU in the first place. Thanks to Stuartjohn24 we know how the power supply works in the MMI.

Anyway in some time I will build something like this:




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Oh. Anyway. Let me know.

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  #108  
Old 04-30-2019, 12:41 AM
irish745 irish745 is offline
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For a test bench of which i have just for coding and flashing units before i send them out .u need cas module with key .sgm module which acts as the gateway between the buses . idrive controller .obd socket .mmi screen .ask unit .and a 12v power supply .i have a setup i made and it works quiet well and seems to be faster at flashing modules due to lack of other peripherials in the buses .stuartjohn has a fantastic setup where he can pull the different module plates for different chassis as he has a case with a backplane and just in and out

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  #109  
Old 04-30-2019, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish745 View Post
For a test bench of which i have just for coding and flashing units before i send them out .u need cas module with key .sgm module which acts as the gateway between the buses . idrive controller .obd socket .mmi screen .ask unit .and a 12v power supply .i have a setup i made and it works quiet well and seems to be faster at flashing modules due to lack of other peripherials in the buses .stuartjohn has a fantastic setup where he can pull the different module plates for different chassis as he has a case with a backplane and just in and out

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Oh thank you for this info, I'm gonna try to source all the needed components and cables if I can find them at a reasonable price. I already have a front MMI on the way that should have arrived already some days ago.. is the ASK really necessary?

Is it this thing you're talking about?


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  #110  
Old 04-30-2019, 01:11 AM
irish745 irish745 is offline
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Yeah something like that but my powersupply is alot smaller .il get details of it later if i get near it .generally ask is not needed .but if ur doing anything to the sound part of the loop it is as its the primary controller so u will have no sound .i hooked it up and 1 speaker to the output of it so i have sound and at least when i do anything to the loop i know it works .that been said i have a parts car here so i was able to make up a full loop with video module antenna module and tuner.bluettooth etc so i can swap out and code any module i like .i will be in the future adding the byteflite bus and others so i can do all buses .but other priorities first as now have 2 760s apart in my shed and no car to drive lol

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  #111  
Old 04-30-2019, 04:40 AM
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Cimdahers: yes I'll let you know if I would need it but I think it's better that you keep it no that I already got one on my way. Maby someone also interested in this project could make use of it on their part.

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  #112  
Old 05-03-2019, 12:39 AM
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This is translated from a document in german

Quote:
The Rear Display control unit generates digital image data. The digital image data is transmitted via a LVDS cable (Low Voltage Differential Signaling for the transmission of digital images, digital RGB cable) for graphical representations on the rear display.
So some form of balanced digital RGB

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  #113  
Old 05-03-2019, 12:43 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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This is translated from a document in german



So some form of balanced digital RGB

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Yes, probably. Also the wires (except the grounding) seem to be 3 in pairs. Probably we should somehow figure out which ones are for R, G and B.
Thanks

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  #114  
Old 05-03-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Yes, probably. Also the wires (except the grounding) seem to be 3 in pairs. Probably we should somehow figure out which ones are for R, G and B.
Thanks

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Yes and then all the clock/sync signals on 9 and 10 most likely

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  #115  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:05 AM
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It just hit me that the Avin USA replacement idrive screens for the CCC uses this same input LVDS connection as the rear idrive screen!

Unfortunately they don't seem to make this in a 6.5" version so that the rear OEM screen could be replaced or in a form factor like this

But I don't see why they shouldn't be able to make one like this if there's just a demand for it. Then no lvds to cvbs converter would be needed. One could just use a OEM lvds splitter to 2 of these screens.

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  #116  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:16 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
It just hit me that the Avin USA replacement idrive screens for the CCC uses this same input LVDS connection as the rear idrive screen!

Unfortunately they don't seem to make this in a 6.5" version so that the rear OEM screen could be replaced or in a form factor like this

But I don't see why they shouldn't be able to make one like this if there's just a demand for it. Then no lvds to cvbs converter would be needed. One could just use a OEM lvds splitter to 2 of these screens.

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I also think that it would be possible.
I asked from manufacturer from which I bought my front screen android.
Unfortunatelly, they seemed not understanding me. Just replied that they don't have 6'5version.
My android screen has not such LVDS input...
Rear screen android would really solve the problem...

Maybe without the Idrive control, since from rear i drive there are different can messages, i guess...

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  #117  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
I also think that it would be possible.
I asked from manufacturer from which I bought my front screen android.
Unfortunatelly, they seemed not understanding me. Just replied that they don't have 6'5version.
My android screen has not such LVDS input...
Rear screen android would really solve the problem...

Maybe without the Idrive control, since from rear i drive there are different can messages, i guess...

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Maby try to rephrase the question for them?
Who is the manufacturer of those?
Yeah that lvds input is only on the version made to replace the CCC idrive systems.

Yeah I aslo think the can messages are different but that can be sorted with a CAN filter. or if they could just change the software in the Android unit to listen for the rear controller messges instead.

So if they could just integrate the lvds input in one of these screens with support for the rear idrive controller it would be awesome.


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  #118  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:53 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Maby try to rephrase the question for them?
Who is the manufacturer of those?
Yeah that lvds input is only on the version made to replace the CCC idrive systems.

Yeah I aslo think the can messages are different but that can be sorted with a CAN filter. or if they could just change the software in the Android unit to listen for the rear controller messges instead.

So if they could just integrate the lvds input in one of these screens with support for the rear idrive controller it would be awesome.


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Witson
Honestly, I was not happy with their communucation and service. The item is good, but mirrorong did not wirk. They fixed it.
Anti-glare screen was not installed upon my request although promised. Ok. They refunded the difference.
I wrote several times about the 6'5 screen and rear screen. Maybe that was only one man issue...
Probably, should give a try once again.

Mayhe also, more inquiries from different inquirers would help..

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  #119  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:43 AM
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I can try to send them an inquiry as well then to put some more pressure on them

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  #120  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:50 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Sure
The more inquiries, the more they respond to the need

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  #121  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:50 AM
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Anyone of you that have an extra video module that is broken or that you are not afraid of breaking?

What I need you to do is open it up and confirm what video switch chip is installed and then trace the i²c bus line from that.



I think at least this lower shield with holes in it needs to be removed and very likely the whole riser board will have to be desoldered


In order to trace the i²c bus from pin 3 and 4 from the VPD3134Y hopefully to any of these contact pins.



So I can then just hook up my bus pirate and send the i2c commands to see if it switches the input to the aux in. I would dismantle my own but I am somewhat afraid of breaking it while it still works and then I can't test it with the bus pirate...

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  #122  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:55 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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I have one from 2002, and one younger, bit those are without the rear monitor support

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  #123  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
I have one from 2002, and one younger, bit those are without the rear monitor support

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I think they should have almost the same setup just without the video splitter and dual VPD3134Y so that should not matter for this experiment

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  #124  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:59 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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I could look into tomorrow evening

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  #125  
Old 05-17-2019, 01:03 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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I also have one with rear monitor support. However I don't want it to be broken, it is rare.
Anyway don't ask me to sokder something, and I don't know how to test anything in those circuits...
I will revert when I find it and open to confirm

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