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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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  #1  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:49 PM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Intake removal tip and more

The last 2 years i am owning a BMW f11 530D from 2011 - n57 1st gen. I am having a fuel consumption of 9 liters/100km which is far from low, but till now i thought that this could be normal. Even in long trips with cruising around 130km/h i get consumption around 8 l/100km.

Lately i get an error regarding the swirl flaps. I am suspecting that the intake is clogged up with carbon. At this moment i am at vacations and i do not have all the tools to have look at it, therefore i went to a local mechanic in Greece. But the mechanic who had a look at it (he removed the swirl flap actuator and not the whole intake) told me that there is not much of CBU such that to create an issue.

The increased consumption was always there and stays the same even after replacing the thermostat and the water pump. The operating temperature of the engine oil is 100-102 C and the coolant fluctuates from 92-108C. Is this normal? I was getting the same temps even before the replacement of the thermostat and the pump. Is this normal, could it affect the fuel consumption?

Meanwhile, i am a competent DIYer so i tried to remove the intake and have a look myself. I removed all the 7 screws of the intake but the intake movement is minimal. Especially on the back of the engine the manifold moves max 10 mm up. Am i missing something? I think that i have removed the valve that is sitting under the manifold and i have followed the information provided in ISTA. Any recommendation there? I have not removed the EGR pipe, but i do not think that this is the issue, since that to my vision the pipe is flexible and with small bend i could lift the intake. It is feels like the intake is stuck in the back of the engine. I pull hard but it does not lift more than 10mm and in the end I am afraid to break something in the intake of I pull extra hard..

So i have the following questions:


1. Is it necessary to remove the EGR pipe in order to be able to lift the intake or by flexing it is it possible to maneuver the intake and take it out? The screws are rusty and the lower one is somehow rounded...

2. Is the average consumption of 8 l per 100km normal for trip cruising mode with 130km/h?

3. Could be an issue of the MAF for low consumption? How do I know that the maf is ok?

4. Finally, the coolant operating temp range of 92-108 C looks too high in my eyes. Is it normal and can it affect the fuel consumption negatively?

Last edited by kostasof; 08-28-2019 at 09:28 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2019, 09:02 AM
APLinhares APLinhares is offline
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1. I've got a n47 so I haven't got that pipe, so sorry, can't help.

2. 8L at 130 it not normal in cruise control, should get around 6,x L/100.

3. You don't, unless you make a log in a ride... but you need some data to compare.

4. It's the normal working temps; lower temps can get higher fuel consumption.

Did you check your DFP? How is it (saturation)?
When you did clean your intake manifold or DFP?
When you did change you fuel filters or engine air filter?
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:14 AM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Well the air filter I changed 5000km ago and the fuel filter 40000km. The intake was cleaned 60k ago, but few months ago I changed the rocker cover from the engine and I asked the mechanic what the condition of the intake was and he told me that it does not require cleaning. As soon as I am back from vacations I will try to remove the intake and have a look, but the intake seems to be stuck somewhere in the back.. I have to drive almost 3000km so if I could consume 6 instead of 8 l per 100km it could save me around 60 Euros in gas...
meanwhile I cleaned the maf but this did not improve things.


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  #4  
Old 09-15-2019, 12:32 AM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Intake removal tip and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by APLinhares View Post
1. I've got a n47 so I haven't got that pipe, so sorry, can't help.

2. 8L at 130 it not normal in cruise control, should get around 6,x L/100.

3. You don't, unless you make a log in a ride... but you need some data to compare.

4. It's the normal working temps; lower temps can get higher fuel consumption.

Did you check your DFP? How is it (saturation)?
When you did clean your intake manifold or DFP?
When you did change you fuel filters or engine air filter?

Thanks for the response. On the way back from Greece to the Netherlands with only highways and 2500km drive, I had average consumption of 8.3 l/100km. Itís is not particularly bad but also not what I would expect from a diesel with an engine made for cruising. Most of the time I was driving around 130kmh and for limited time I went up to 150kmh.

What is the DFP? Do you mean DPF? I never cleaned DPF manually but I think it regenerates automatically, right? Is there other ay to clean it?
The Fuel filter was changed 40000km ago and air filter 10k ago.


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Last edited by kostasof; 09-15-2019 at 12:38 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2019, 04:44 AM
APLinhares APLinhares is offline
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DPF has a determined usage; even with regeneration it leaves residues (ash) and keeps getting full.
When it gets around 85-100g it won't work as supposed and suffocates the engine.
This will giving you higher milleage consumption and very higher probability in turbo damages.
It can be measure by some noj official tools (odb2 dongle with btool lite, carly...)
Can be cleared in many ways through right product for that propose; can be with it mounted or get the DPF out for cleaning.

Last edited by APLinhares; 09-15-2019 at 04:46 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2019, 11:29 PM
MunichMark MunichMark is offline
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Goede Dag, Kalimera,

If you understand German look up on the F10 German Forum "Verkokung".

Not knowing how many KM's you have and the typical driving profile hard to say if you may be affected.

Short City driving and 100,000 KM it's usually time to start thinking about cleaning the entire Trakt from the EGR Valve to the Inlet Valves (Manual cleaning and Walnut blasting usually).

Then again, like my Car 150,000 KM and very little Carbon Buildup, I drive long distance and with premium Diesel usually.

As mentioned it could also be your DPF never had a chance to burn through properly but if you drove GR-NL that should have taken care.

To check the Verkokung condition takes about 30 minutes at any BMW Dealer or Indy using an Endescope looking into the MAF and thru the Maniifold to the Valves... Then you know for sure. I've seen people spend thousands on shotgunning with various parts and work done only to find out a simple cleaning was all that was wrong, you can't do this halfway, clean everything like new and not piece meal.

Also there is an important recall on the EGR Valve... If not done BMW will sometimes assist if heavy carbon buildup found. Carry a fire extinguisher in the mean time !

Veel Success !
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MunichMark
2014 535XD LCI
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2019, 01:39 AM
Buick430 Buick430 is offline
F11 520d 2010
Location: Denmark
 
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If you wanna pull the entire intake, it appears you will have to remove the EGR as well. Check Newtis:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...nifold/5WQfhyN

But you can buy an endoscope (for smartphones) on ebay for next to nothing, so start with the easy jobs before tearing down the whole engine, unless you wanna do it "just for fun"

FYI: My old E39 530D used on average about 6L/100km - so 9/100 seems a little high, unless you do a lot of start/stop driving...
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:41 AM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunichMark View Post
Goede Dag, Kalimera,

If you understand German look up on the F10 German Forum "Verkokung".

Not knowing how many KM's you have and the typical driving profile hard to say if you may be affected.

Short City driving and 100,000 KM it's usually time to start thinking about cleaning the entire Trakt from the EGR Valve to the Inlet Valves (Manual cleaning and Walnut blasting usually).

Then again, like my Car 150,000 KM and very little Carbon Buildup, I drive long distance and with premium Diesel usually.

As mentioned it could also be your DPF never had a chance to burn through properly but if you drove GR-NL that should have taken care.

To check the Verkokung condition takes about 30 minutes at any BMW Dealer or Indy using an Endescope looking into the MAF and thru the Maniifold to the Valves... Then you know for sure. I've seen people spend thousands on shotgunning with various parts and work done only to find out a simple cleaning was all that was wrong, you can't do this halfway, clean everything like new and not piece meal.

Also there is an important recall on the EGR Valve... If not done BMW will sometimes assist if heavy carbon buildup found. Carry a fire extinguisher in the mean time !

Veel Success !


Kalispera,

Thank you for the response. I will check the status of the DPF. I will buy also a camera to have a look inside. Regarding EGR recall I asked BMW NL and they told me that my car is not under recall while the production dates match. My car is imported from a Germany though and maybe BMW NL is not liable to offer support? I anyway have bad experience with the dealer so most of the maintenance and repairs in the car I do myself. But what do you mean with recall? Shall I push them? I am recalling sending them an email that I am concerned about my car catching fire and they told me that there is no reason to worry about and that the cars in NL do not have this issue, which I doubt. But since that I have this response in email, in case my car catches fire they will be blamed.. but do you know if there is specific action that I should take?


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  #9  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:52 AM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Location: Eindhoven
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buick430 View Post
If you wanna pull the entire intake, it appears you will have to remove the EGR as well. Check Newtis:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...nifold/5WQfhyN



But you can buy an endoscope (for smartphones) on ebay for next to nothing, so start with the easy jobs before tearing down the whole engine, unless you wanna do it "just for fun"



FYI: My old E39 530D used on average about 6L/100km - so 9/100 seems a little high, unless you do a lot of start/stop driving...


6l/100km would be a dream for me. I get this if I drive with cruise control 80-100kmh. I will try with the endoscope. Indeed ISTA and newtis mention that the pipe should be removed. My difficulty is that the screws of the pipe are heavily rusty and the lower one even rounded.. So possibly they will snap while trying to remove them. So I was wondering if the intake can be removed without removing the egr pipe since that the pipe flexes here and there.. if anyone else had similar experience?


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  #10  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:04 PM
APLinhares APLinhares is offline
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Your 530D is a normal or xDrive?
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:38 PM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Intake removal tip and more

For clarification my car now has now 200k km. I bought it at 140K and the previous owner had the intake cleaned. But I have no clue how good did he clean it. I have no due if the valves where cleaned as well. I typically use my car for long trips. Having said that, I do not recall in the past my car keeping high vers in order to perform regeneration.
I was wondering that since my intake is difficult to be removed because of the rusty screws on the egr pipe, if someone has tried various carbon cleaner sprays that you spray in the intake while the engine on idle and claim to remove the carbon residues. Are they any good? I have seen that liquimoly has also one. Has anyone tried any of those or is it a waste of money? If the carbon build up is minimum they might help, or not?

Last edited by kostasof; 09-16-2019 at 09:53 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:40 PM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APLinhares View Post
Your 530D is a normal or xDrive?


It is normal but with 19 inch rims which of course affect the consumption but I do not expect to affect 2l per 100km.


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  #13  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:03 PM
APLinhares APLinhares is offline
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Mein Auto: F10 520d
My 520d 2003 auto has passed 300k km and I can do milleage of (minimal) 5,4-5,6L/100 in highway @ 120km/h.
And I've M Suspension (245/45/r8+275/40r18) and a clean system including EGR+DPF... Not bad for a 1,7ton sedan with 1000+ kms range

Your milleage is very high for declared values, in my opinion.

Last edited by APLinhares; 09-17-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:46 PM
kostasof kostasof is offline
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Location: Eindhoven
 
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Mein Auto: BMW 530d
Intake removal tip and more

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunichMark View Post
Goede Dag, Kalimera,

If you understand German look up on the F10 German Forum "Verkokung".

Not knowing how many KM's you have and the typical driving profile hard to say if you may be affected.

Short City driving and 100,000 KM it's usually time to start thinking about cleaning the entire Trakt from the EGR Valve to the Inlet Valves (Manual cleaning and Walnut blasting usually).

Then again, like my Car 150,000 KM and very little Carbon Buildup, I drive long distance and with premium Diesel usually.

As mentioned it could also be your DPF never had a chance to burn through properly but if you drove GR-NL that should have taken care.

To check the Verkokung condition takes about 30 minutes at any BMW Dealer or Indy using an Endescope looking into the MAF and thru the Maniifold to the Valves... Then you know for sure. I've seen people spend thousands on shotgunning with various parts and work done only to find out a simple cleaning was all that was wrong, you can't do this halfway, clean everything like new and not piece meal.

Also there is an important recall on the EGR Valve... If not done BMW will sometimes assist if heavy carbon buildup found. Carry a fire extinguisher in the mean time !


Veel Success !


Last weekend I had sometime to check the DPF status. ISTA claims that the DPF was regenerated 6h ago. Moreover I checked the residues in the DPF and they are 7.85 grams, which I think is ok. I further removed the throttle valve and with an endoscope I tried to look inside. The dirt though is like a paste and blocks the camera while trying to push it in. I cleaned the intake pipe just where the egr pipe comes in and up to 20 cm further. I could not reach the ports with the intake in situ. I would of course like to remove the whole intake but thanks to the rusty coroded screws, I cannot..
Having said this I think that the carbon build up in the intake, at least the part that I can see with the camera does not look too bad. It has 0.5 mm I would say of carbon build up, which is not coked and fells like grease. In the link below you can check the video and you can see how can I can inspect. To give you an idea I managed to clean up to 10 cm further from where camera can reach in the video.

Video link:

Meanwhile, I changed the diesel fuel filter and the oil and with this clean I get a bit better fuel consumptions. But not significant and therefore maybe itís just me driving like grandma, to prove that my work has paid off.Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0068.JPG
Views:	10
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ID:	865787


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Last edited by kostasof; 09-26-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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