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Old 03-18-2009, 11:30 AM
farrk007 farrk007 is offline
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Location: great white north, The midwest's "N.Y.C"
 
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Mein Auto: E34,94 E36 325IS,S30 240Z
best oil weight for the summer months

I've narrowed it down to brand(mobil) i just want some input on the weight to get for the coming summer months.
i drive her about 240 miles(approx) each week and my rev's are always in the higher(4-6k) range.
mileage is over 214k.

would appreciate any and all suggestions
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:42 AM
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RTFM. Also, read this:

In the world of import automotive high performance, the kind of answers you get to your technical questions depends as much (or more) on the way you ask the questions as it does on the difficulty of developing the answer. This guide will teach you how to ask questions in a way more likely to get you a satisfactory answer.

Now that modding import vehicles has become widespread, you can often get as good answers from other, more experienced owners without the need to bug the "oldschool" guys. This is a Good Thing; people who are "newer owners" tend to be just a little bit more tolerant of the kind of failures newbies often have. Still, treating experienced users like "oldschool" in the ways we recommend here will generally be the most effective way to get useful answers out of them as well.

The first thing to understand is that a lot of the technical people you'll find around here actually like hard problems and good, thought-provoking questions about them. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. If you give us an interesting question to chew on we'll be grateful to you; good questions are a stimulus and a gift. Good questions help us develop our understanding, and often reveal problems we might not have noticed or thought about otherwise. "Good question!" is a strong and sincere compliment.

Despite this, a lot of us oldschool guys have a reputation for meeting simple questions with what looks like hostility or arrogance. It sometimes looks like we're reflexively rude to newbies and the ignorant. But this isn't really true.

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking a question. People like that are time sinks - they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer.

We realize that there are many people who just want to drive the car, and who have no interest in learning technical details. For most people, a car is merely transportation, a means to an end; they have more important things to do and lives to live. We acknowledge that, and don't expect everyone to take an interest in the technical matters that fascinate us. Nevertheless, our style of answering questions is tuned for people who do take such an interest and are willing to be active participants in problem-solving. That's not going to change. Nor should it; if it did, we would become less effective at the things we do best.

We're volunteers. We take time out of busy lives to answer questions, and at times we're overwhelmed with them. So we filter what we answer. In particular, we don't reply to questions from people who appear to be "time sinks" in order to spend our question-answering time more efficiently, On people who will use the information we provide & will learn from it...

If you find this attitude obnoxious, condescending, or arrogant, check your assumptions. We're not asking you to genuflect to us -- in fact, most of us would love nothing more than to deal with you as an equal and welcome you into our culture, if you put in the effort required to make that possible. But it's simply not efficient or practical for us to try to help people who are not willing to help themselves. It's OK to be ignorant; it's not OK to be stupid.

So, while it isn't necessary to already be technically competent with the car to get attention from us, it is necessary to demonstrate the kind of attitude that leads to competence - alert, thoughtful, observant, willing to be an active partner in developing a solution. If you can't live with this sort of discrimination, we suggest you stop working on the Supra, sell it and buy a Honda Civic (they are cheap & reliable if left stock) instead of asking us to personally donate help to you.

If you decide to come to us for help, you don't want to be one of the "time-sinks". You don't want to seem like one, either. The best way to get a rapid and responsive answer is to ask it like a person with smarts, confidence, and clues who just happens to need help on one particular problem.

(Improvements to this guide are welcome. You can PM me suggestions. Note however that this document is not intended to be a general guide to netiquette, and I will generally reject suggestions that are not specifically related to eliciting useful answers in our forum.)

Before You Ask

Before asking a question do the following:

* Try to find an answer by searching this website.
* Try to find an answer by reading the TSRM. If you don't have one, buy one, you are going to need it.
* Try to find an answer by reading our FAQ section.
* Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.
* Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend.


When you post your question, display the fact that you have done these things first; this will help establish that you're not being a lazy sponge and wasting people's time. Better yet, display what you have learned from doing these things. We like answering questions for people who have demonstrated they can learn from the answers.

Search! This might well take you straight to a thread answering your question. Even if it doesn't, saying "I searched on the following phrase but didn't get anything that looked promising" is a good thing to include in your post requesting help.

Prepare your question. Think it through. Hasty-sounding questions get hasty answers, or none at all. The more you do to demonstrate that having put thought and effort into solving your problem before seeking help, the more likely you are to actually get top shelf help.

Beware of asking the wrong question. If you ask one that is based on faulty assumptions, someone is quite likely to reply with a uselessly literal answer while thinking "Stupid question...", and hoping the experience of getting what you asked for rather than what you needed will teach you a lesson.

Never assume you are entitled to an answer. You are not; you don't pay us for the service. However you can (and will) earn an answer, by asking a substantial, interesting, and thought-provoking question - one that implicitly contributes to the experience of the community rather than merely passively demanding knowledge from others.

On the other hand, making it clear that you are able and willing to help in the process of developing the solution is a very good start. "Would someone provide a pointer?", "What test am I missing?", and "What should I have searched for?" are more likely to get answered than "Please post the exact procedure I should use." because in the former examples you're making it clear that you're truly willing to complete the process if someone can just point you in the right direction. In the last you want someone to read you the manual. Go buy one.

How to search:

Search with key words related to your issue. Read the threads that are returned. Modify your search to include new terms you learned from the previous results. This will yield more/different results. Do this, until you have exhausted the variety of terms applicable, and you may just find the answer before you make a new thread. This works on forum searches and Google searches. Try it.

Choose your forum carefully

Be selective in choosing where you post your question. You are likely to be ignored, or written off as a waste of time, if you:

* post your question to a forum where it's off topic
* post a very elementary question to a forum where advanced technical questions are expected, or vice-versa
* cross-post to multiple forums.


A lot of us blow off questions that are inappropriately targeted in order to try to protect our communications channels from being drowned in irrelevance. Some people will remember the poster, and classify them as a waste of time. You don't want this to happen to you.

By the way, that last item on the punch list up there brings up a point worth making. We're ALL on the same forums. I'm on SF, SM and just about every other forum out there. If I see your question posted on 5 different forums, I'm less likely to answer it. Here's why. I don't want to put 45 minutes of my time into answering a post on SF if, for example, Dr Jonez is answering it over here. Pick the forum that most closely matches your style and technical level and post it one damned place please.

The first step, therefore, is to find the right topic area here at SM. Again, searching is your friend. Use it to find information about what is giving you difficulties. Check the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) list. Posting on this, or any forum is the final place to go for help, if your own efforts (including reading those FAQs you found and that manual you bought) do not find you a solution.. Think about it, when you post out here, you make your problem our problem, and we don't mind that, provided you have already tried to work it out yourself.

Also while we're close to the topic, sending a PM to a person which you are not familiar with is risky at best. For example, do not assume that the author of an informative post wants to be your free consultant. Do not make optimistic guesses about whether your question will be welcome - if you're unsure, post it publicly, or refrain from sending it at all.

When selecting a topic area verify your question is on-topic. Read some of the back traffic before posting so you'll get a feel for how things are done in that forum. Each topic area and its associated moderator has it's own style. In fact, it's a very good idea to do a keyword search for words relating to your problem before you post. It may find you an answer, and if not it will help you formulate a better question.

Don't shotgun-blast mulitple topic areas at once, that's a violations of the forum rules and it REALLY irritates us admins... Find the right location and post once.

Know what your topic is! One of the classic mistakes is asking questions about turbos in the N/A (non-turbo) section . If you don't understand why this is a blunder, you'd be best off not asking any questions at all until you get it.

In general, questions to a well-selected topic area are more likely to get quality answers than equivalent questions to the wrong one. There are multiple reasons for this. One is simply the size of the pool of potential respondents. Another is the size of the audience; a guy who specializes in helping on turbo cars would rather answer questions in the turbo forum. He may not even read the N/A forum.

Understandably, knowlegable members are already receiving more than their fair share of mis-targeted messages. We get PM's all thet time. By adding to the flood, you could in extreme cases even be the straw that breaks the camel's back - quite a few times, knowlegable members withdrawn their support because collateral damage in the form of useless e-mail & PM traffic to their personal accounts became unbearable.

The MK3 Supra Reference/Tech-Tips forum often has your answer

Here's a link to it.

These are good first places to check, especially if you think you may have tripped over a relatively simple or common problem.

Also, it's worth mentioning that any question good enough to be asked of one person will also be of value to the whole group. Contrariwise, if you suspect your question is too dumb for public posting, it's not an excuse to harass individual members. However, if you are sure your question is non-trivial, and you get no answer in the the general forum for several days, try the asking a mod or admin to help you find someone who could help. We may just have missed it, or we might be able to point out why you aren't getting an answer. You also would be well advised to lurk there for a few days before posting to learn who people are and how they respond to questions.

If you cannot figure out if your post is on topic, go ahead and PM that specifict topic areas moderator or an Administrator. Also mention that you don't object to having your message forwarded to other people. (Many people [myself included] believe that private e-mail and PM's should remain private, even if there is nothing secret in it. By allowing your message to be forwarded you give your correspondent a choice about how to handle your message.)

Use meaningful, specific subject headers

On forums, the subject header is your golden opportunity to attract qualified experts' attention in 50 characters or less. Don't waste it on babble like "Please help me" (let alone "PLEASE HELP ME!!!!"; messages with subjects like that get discarded by reflex). Don't try to impress us with the depth of your anguish; use the space for a super-concise problem description instead.

One good convention for subject headers, used by many tech support organizations, is "object - deviation". The "object" part specifies what thing or group of things is having a problem, and the "deviation" part describes the deviation from expected behavior.

Stupid:
HELP!!!

Smart:
HKS SSQV doesn't blow off

Smarter:
HKS SSQV Blow-Off Valve doesn't blow off after hard pipe install

The process of writing an "object-deviation" description will help you organize your thinking about the problem in more detail. What is affected? Just the BOV or are other problems happening at the same time? Someone who sees a good subject line can immediately understand what it is that you are having a problem with and the problem you are having, at a glance.

More generally, look at the thread list in a forum. Note that just the subject lines are showing. Make your subject line reflect your question well enough that the next guy browsing the forum with a question similar to yours will be able to follow the thread to an answer rather than posting the question again.

Do not simply hit reply to a list message in order to start an entirely new thread. If you are going off in a different direction, search for a thread that applies to that subject. If you don't find it then post a new question. Changing the subject is not a good way to do things. Once a thread has a title it does not change even if you change the subject of your individual post. This makes it harder for people to find.

Make it easy to reply

Finishing your query with "Please send your reply to [email protected]" makes it quite unlikely you will get an answer. If you can't be bothered to take even the few seconds required to come back and check your thread, we can't be bothered to take even a few seconds to think about your problem. On forums, asking for a reply by e-mail is outright rude, unless you believe the information may be sensitive (and somebody will, for some unknown reason, let you but not the whole forum know it). If you want an e-mail copy when somebody replies in the thread use the "subscribe to this thread" option.

Write in clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled language

Most of us have found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually (there are excptions) careless and sloppy at thinking and working on cars. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding; we'd rather spend our time elsewhere.

So expressing your question clearly and well is important. If you can't be bothered to do that, we can't be bothered to pay attention. Spend the extra effort to polish your language. It doesn't have to be stiff or formal in fact, the car culture values informal, slangy and humorous language used with precision. But it has to be precise; there has to be some indication that you're thinking and paying attention.

Spell, punctuate, and capitalize correctly. Don't confuse "its" with "it's", "loose" with "lose", or "they're" with "there". Don't TYPE IN ALL CAPS; this is read as shouting and considered rude. (All lowercase is only slightly less annoying, as it's difficult to read.)

More generally, if you write like a semi-literate boob you will very likely be ignored. Writing like a l33t script kiddie hax0r or a gangsta from the ghetto is the absolute kiss of death with us and guarantees you will receive nothing but stony silence (or, at best, a heaping helping of scorn and sarcasm) in return.

If you are asking questions on our forum and English is not your native language, you will get a limited amount of slack for spelling and grammar errors - but no extra slack at all for laziness (and yes, we can usually spot that difference). Write in English. We will flush questions in languages that the bulk of our users don't understand, and English is the working language of the Internet. By writing in English you minimize your chances that your question will be discarded unread.

Post your question standard format

If you make your question artificially hard to read, it is more likely to be passed over in favor of one that isn't. So:

Do not abuse "smiley" and text formatting features. A smiley or two is usually OK, but colored fancy text tends to make people think you are lame. Seriously overusing smileys and color and fonts will make you come off like a giggly teenage girl, which is not generally a good idea unless you are more interested in sex than answers.

Be precise and informative about your problem

Describe the symptoms of your problem or project carefully and clearly.

Describe the car in which it occurs (1990 1JZ Swap). Provide your mod list (Turbonetics T-61, RC 550's, Greddy SP Exhaust, DDP)

Describe the research you did to try and understand the problem before you asked the question.

Describe the diagnostic steps you took to try and pin down the problem yourself before you asked the question.

Describe any possibly relevant recent changes to your car. After 10 posts and queries it's maddening to see "oh yea, I forgot to mention I swapped out the fuel pump the day before".

Do the best you can to anticipate the questions a people will ask, and answer them in advance in your request for help.

Volume is not precision

You need to be precise and informative. This end is not served by simply writing a long winded description of the date you were on, or what had for dinner into your help request. If you have a large, complicated situation, try to trim it and make it as small as possible.

This is useful for at least three reasons:

1. Being seen to invest effort in simplifying the question makes it more likely you'll get an answer
2. Simplifying the question makes it more likely you'll get a useful answer.
3. In the process of refining your post, you may develop a fix or workaround yourself.


Remember, 99 times out of 100 there are many other owners that are not experiencing your problem. (If your RC550 injectors aren't working for example) Otherwise you would have learned about it while reading the forum and searching the site (you did do that before complaining, didn't you?). This means that very probably it is you who are doing something wrong.

Grovelling is not a substitute for doing your homework

Some people who get that they shouldn't behave rudely or arrogantly and shouldn't be demanding an answer, retreat to the opposite extreme of grovelling. "I know I'm just a pathetic newbie loser, but...". This is distracting and unhelpful. It's especially annoying when it's coupled with vagueness about the actual problem.

Don't waste your time, or ours, on crude primate politics. Instead, present the background facts and your question as clearly as you can. That is a better way to position yourself than by grovelling.

Describe the problem's symptoms, not your guesses

If you don't know what the problem is, it's not altogether useful to tell people what you think is causing your problem. (If your diagnostic theories were such hot stuff, would you be consulting others for help?) So, make sure you're telling them the raw symptoms of what goes wrong, rather than your interpretations and theories. Let them do the interpretation and diagnosis. If you feel it's important to state your guess, clearly label it as such and describe why that answer isn't working for you.

Since the preceding point seems to be a tough one for many people to grasp, here's a phrase to remind you: "All diagnosticians are from Missouri." That US state's official motto is "Show me" (earned in 1899, when Congressman Willard D. Vandiver said "I come from a country that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I'm from Missouri. You've got to show me.") In diagnosticians' case, it's not a matter of skepticism, but rather a literal, functional need to see whatever is as close as possible to the same raw evidence that you see, rather than your surmises and summaries. Show me!

Describe your problem's symptoms in chronological order

The clues most useful in figuring out something that went wrong often lie in the events immediately prior. So, your description should provide precisely what you did, and what the car did, leading up to the blowup. "I stopped to get gas and then problem x happend" can save us all a lot of work.

All Supras have diagnostic codes. Check the ECU for them before posting a question. Include any codes you got in your description.

If your post ends up being long (more than about four paragraphs), it might be useful to succinctly state the problem up top, then follow with the chronological tale. That way, people will know what to watch for in reading your account.

Describe the goal, not the step

If you are trying to find out how to do something (as opposed to reporting a problem), begin by describing the goal. Only then describe the particular step towards it that you are blocked on.

Often, people who need technical help have a high-level goal in mind and get stuck on what they think is one particular path towards the goal. They come for help with the step, but don't realize that the path is wrong. It can take substantial effort to get past this.

Stupid:
How do I get enough power to my top fuel dragster sized fuel pump?

Smart:
I want to make 350 RWHP, I have 550 injectors. I'm thinking I need one of these huge 400 liter an hour pumps, how do I get power to it?

The second version of the question is smart. It allows an answer that suggests a tool or part better suited to the task.

Don't ask people to reply by private e-mail

Most of us believe solving problems should be a public, transparent process during which a first try at an answer can and should be corrected if someone more knowledgeable notices that it is incomplete or incorrect. Also, helpers get some of their reward for being respondents from being seen to be competent and knowledgeable by their peers.

When you ask for a private reply, you are disrupting both the process and the reward. Don't do this. It's the respondent's choice whether to reply privately - and if he does, it's usually because he thinks the question is too ill-formed or obvious to be interesting to others.

Be explicit about your question

Open-ended questions tend to be perceived as open-ended time sinks. Those people most likely to be able to give you a useful answer are also the busiest people (if only because they take on the most work themselves). People like that are allergic to open-ended time sinks, thus they tend to be allergic to open-ended questions.

You are more likely to get a useful response if you are explicit about what you want respondents to do (provide pointers, suggest parts, check your install method, whatever). This will focus their effort and implicitly put an upper bound on the time and energy a respondent must allocate to helping you. This is good.

To understand the world the experts live in, think of expertise as an abundant resource and time to respond as a scarce one. The less of a time commitment you implicitly ask for, the more likely you are to get an answer from someone really good and really busy.

So it is useful to frame your question to minimize the time commitment required for an expert to field it - but this is often not the same thing as simplifying the question. Thus, for example, "Would you give me a pointer to a good explanation of turbo A/R's?" is usually a smarter question than "Would you explain turbo A/R's, please?".

Prune pointless queries

Resist the temptation to close your request for help with semantically-null questions like "Can anyone help me?" or "Is there an answer?" First: if you've written your problem description halfway competently, such tacked-on questions are at best superfluous. Second: because they are superfluous, people find them annoying - and are likely to return logically impeccable but dismissive answers like "Yes, you can be helped" and "No, there is no help for you."

In general, asking yes-or-no questions is a good thing to avoid unless you want a yes-or-no answer.

Don't flag your question as "Urgent" or "Need help fast!"

That's your problem, not ours. Claiming urgency is very likely to be counter-productive: most of us will simply ignore such messages as rude and selfish attempts to elicit immediate and special attention. We also might not answer if we missed the problem in the first few minutes. We'll assume that if you didn't get an answer quickly, it's too late now.

If you find this mysterious, re-read the rest of this how-to repeatedly until you understand it before posting anything at all.

Courtesy never hurts, and sometimes helps

Be courteous. Use "Please" and "Thanks for your attention" or "Thanks for your consideration". Make it clear you appreciate the time people spend helping you for free.

To be honest, this isn't as important as (and cannot substitute for) being grammatical, clear, precise and descriptive, etc.; We would all in general would rather get somewhat brusque but technically sharp posts than polite vagueness. (If this puzzles you, remember that we value a question by what it teaches all of us.)

However, if you've got your technical ducks in a row, politeness does increase your chances of getting a useful answer.

Follow up with a brief note on the solution

Post after the problem has been solved; let everyone know how it came out and thank everyone again for their help. I can't stress how important this is.

Your followup doesn't have to be long and involved; a simple "Hey! It was a failed fuel pump! Thanks, everyone. - Bill" would be better than nothing. In fact, a short and sweet summary is better than a long dissertation unless the solution has real technical depth. Say what action solved the problem, but you need not replay the whole troubleshooting sequence.

For problems with some depth, it is appropriate to post a summary of the troubleshooting history. Describe your final problem statement. Describe what worked as a solution, and indicate avoidable blind alleys and wastes of time after that. The blind alleys and wastes of time should come after the correct solution and other summary material, rather than turning the follow-up into a detective story. Name the names of people who helped you; you'll make friends that way.

Besides being courteous and informative, this sort of followup will help others searching the forum to know exactly which solution helped you and thus may also help them.

Last, and not least, this sort of followup helps everybody who assisted feel a satisfying sense of closure about the problem. If you are not a techie or mechanic yourself, trust us that this feeling is very important to the gurus and experts you tapped for help. Problem narratives that trail off into unresolved nothingness are frustrating things; we itch to see them resolved. The goodwill that scratching that itch earns you will be very, very helpful to you next time you need to pose a question.

Consider how you might be able to prevent others from having the same problem in the future. Ask yourself if a sticky or additon to the FAQ would help, and if the answer is yes, ask a mod or admin to stick or copy to the FAQ.

We really like to see this, and this sort of good followup behavior is actually more important than conventional politeness. It's how you get a reputation for playing well with others, which can be a very valuable asset.

RTFM and Search! - or - How To Tell You've Seriously Screwed Up

There is an ancient and hallowed tradition: if you get a reply that reads "RTFM", the person who sent it thinks you should have Read The ****ing Manual. He or she is almost certainly right. Go read it.

RTFM has a younger relative. If you get a reply that reads Search!, the person who sent it thinks you should have searched the site. He or she is almost certainly right. Go search it. (The milder version of this is when you are told "Google is your friend!") In fact, someone may even be so kind as to provide a pointer to the previous thread where this problem was solved. But do not rely on this consideration; do your searching before asking.

Often, the person telling you to do a search has the manual or the web page with the information you need open, and is looking at it as he or she types. These replies mean that he thinks (a) the information you need is easy to find, and (b) you will learn more if you seek out the information than if you have it spoon-fed to you.

You shouldn't be offended by this; by our standards, your respondent is showing you a rough kind of respect simply by not ignoring you. You should instead be thankful for this grandmotherly kindness.

Sometimes an answer will be "TSRM EM-53" - this means your question is answered in the TSRM in the Engine Mechanical section on page 53" - if you don't have a TSRM buy one. (There are TSRM's online, but we'd rather see you pay for that copyrighted material to encourage our manufacturer to keep printing the manuals.

If you don't understand...

If you don't understand the answer, do not immediately bounce back a demand for clarification. Use the same tools that you used to try and answer your original question (The TSRM, FAQs, the Web, skilled friends) to understand the answer. Then, if you still need to ask for clarification, exhibit what you have learned.

For example, suppose I tell you: "It sounds like you've got a stuck wastegate; you'll need to free it up" Then: here's a bad followup question: "What's a Wastegate?" Here's a good followup question: "OK, I read the manual and page and I found the wastegate, but the the manual doesn't say anything about freeing it up. Am I missing something here?"

Dealing with rudeness

Much of what looks like rudeness in our circles is not intended to give offence. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bull**** communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about the tech and solving problems than making others feel good about themselves.

When you perceive rudeness, try to react calmly. If someone is really acting out, it is very likely an admin like me on the forum will call him or her on it. If that doesn't happen and you lose your temper, it is likely that the person you lose it at was behaving within the community's norms and you will be considered at fault. This will hurt your chances of getting the information or help you want.

On the other hand, you will occasionally run across rudeness and posturing that is quite gratuitous. The flip-side of the above is that it is acceptable form to slam real offenders quite hard, dissecting their misbehavior with a sharp verbal scalpel. Be very, very sure of your ground before you try this, however. The line between correcting an incivility and starting a pointless flamewar is thin enough that even moderators and administrators themselves not infrequently blunder across it; if you are a newbie or an outsider, your chances of avoiding such a blunder are low. If you're after information rather than entertainment, it's better to keep your fingers off the keyboard than to risk this. We do ban people for using this as a form of entertainment. Please don't do it.

In the next section, we'll talk about a different issue; the kind of "rudeness" you'll see when you misbehave.

On not reacting like a complete loser.

Odds are you'll screw up a few times on the forum - in ways detailed in this article, or similar. And you'll be told exactly how you screwed up, possibly with colourful asides. In public.

When this happens, the worst thing you can do is whine about the experience, claim to have been verbally assaulted, demand apologies, scream, hold your breath, threaten lawsuits, complain to people's employers, leave the toilet seat up, etc. Instead, here's what you do:

Get over it. It's normal. In fact, it's healthy and appropriate.

Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public. Don't whine that all criticism should have been conveyed via private e-mail: That's not how it works. Nor is it useful to insist you've been personally insulted when someone comments that one of your claims was wrong, or that his views differ. We don't have time to teach everyone on a one on one basis. If you get slammed in public, everyone learns from it.

There have been forums where, out of some misguided sense of hyper-courtesy, participants are banned from posting any fault-finding with another's posts, and told "Don't say anything if you're unwilling to help the user." The resulting departure of clueful participants to elsewhere causes them to descend into meaningless babble and become useless as technical forums. That isn't going to happen here. Grow a thicker skin.

Motivations for calling you on your bad behavior

Remember: When that someone tells you that you've screwed up, and (no matter how gruffly) tells you not to do it again, he's acting out of concern for (1) you and (2) his community. It would be much easier for him to ignore you and filter you out of his life. If you can't manage to be grateful, at least have a little dignity, don't whine, and don't expect to be treated like a fragile doll just because you're a newcomer with a theatrically hypersensitive soul and delusions of entitlement. We don't have time for it.

Sometimes people will attack you personally, flame without an apparent reason, etc., even if you don't screw up (or have only screwed up in their imagination). In this case, complaining is the way to really screw up.

These flamers are either idiots who don't have a clue but believe themselves to be experts, or would-be psychologists testing whether you'll screw up. The other readers either ignore them, or find ways to deal with them on their own. The flamers' behavior creates problems for themselves, which don't have to concern you. Trust us, the administrators and moderations staff will handle these people.

Don't let yourself be drawn into a flamewar, either. Most flames are best ignored - after you've checked whether they are really flames, not pointers to the ways in which you have screwed up, and not cleverly ciphered answers to your real question (this happens as well).

Questions Not To Ask

Here are some classic stupid questions, and what we are thinking when we don't answer them.

Q: Where can I find the list of ECU error codes?
A: The same place I'd find it, fool - at the other end of a search. Doesn't everybody know how to use the damned search feature yet?

Q: Where do I find the wiring diagram for the APEXi S-AFCII?
A: If you're smart enough to ask this question, you're smart enough to RTFM and find out yourself.

Q: How can I set my boost controller?
A: If you're smart enough to ask this question, you're smart enough to RTFM and find out yourself.

Q: My car doesn't work
A: This is not a question, and I'm not interested in playing Twenty Questions to pry your actual question out of you - I have better things to do. On seeing something like this, my reaction is normally "Damn, that's too bad, I hope you get it fixed.."

Good and Bad Questions

Finally, I'm going to illustrate how to ask questions in a smart way by example; pairs of questions about the same problem, one asked in a stupid way and one in a smart way.

Stupid: Where can I find out stuff about the HKS SSQV BOV? - (This question just begs for "Search..." as a reply.)
Smart: I used search to try to find out about the HKS SSQV BOV, but I got no useful hits. Can I get a pointer to install information on this BOV?

Stupid: I'm having problems with my car. Can anybody help? - (The average response to this is likely to be "Yes, if you'd tell us what is wrong..")
Smart: I tried X, Y, and Z on on my car. When that didn't work, I tried A, B, and C. Note the curious symptom when I tried C. Obviously the ignition isn't getting power, but the results aren't what one might expect. Anybody got ideas for more tests I can run to pin down the problem?

This person, on the other hand, seems worthy of an answer. He/she has exhibited problem-solving intelligence rather than passively waiting for an answer to drop from on high.

In the last question, notice the subtle but important difference between demanding "Give me an answer" and "Please help me figure out what additional diagnostics I can run to achieve enlightenment."

If You Can't Get An Answer

If you can't get an answer, please don't take it personally that we don't feel we can help you. Sometimes the members of the asked group may simply not know the answer. No response is not the same as being ignored, though admittedly it's hard to spot the difference from outside.

In general, simply re-posting or 'bumping' your question more than once every 24 hours is a bad idea. This will be seen as pointlessly annoying. Have patience: the person with your answer may currently be asleep, in a different time-zone, on vacation, etc.

There are also plenty of commercial companies you can go to for help, both large and small. Don't be dismayed at the idea of having to pay for a bit of help! Mechanics & shops exist for reason.

Participating: How To Answer Questions in a Helpful Way

Be gentle. Problem-related stress can make people seem rude or stupid even when they're not. Sometimes they are just freaked out that this car they have dumped thousands of dollars into is now dumping on them!

If you don't know for sure, say so! A wrong but authoritative-sounding answer is worse than none at all. Don't point anyone down a wrong path simply because it's fun to sound like an expert. Be humble and honest; set a good example for both the querent and your peers. If someone corrects you, accept it with good grace.

If you can't help, don't hinder. Don't make jokes about procedures that could trash the car - the poor sap might interpret these as instructions. I've seen this happen!

Ask probing questions to elicit more details. If you're good at this, the querent will learn something - and so might you. Try to turn the bad question into a good one; remember we were all newbies once.

While just muttering "Search" is sometimes justified when replying to someone who is just a lazy slob, a pointer to documentation (even if it's just a suggestion to search for a specific key phrase) is better.

If you're going to answer the question at all, give good value. Don't suggest crappy workarounds when somebody is using the wrong tool or approach. Suggest good tools, the right parts - Reframe the question.

Help your community learn from the question. When you field a good question, ask yourself "How would the relevant documentation or FAQ have to change so that nobody has to answer this again?" Then contact a mod or admin for a sticky or faq additon.

If you did research to answer the question, demonstrate your skills rather than writing as though you pulled the answer out of your butt. Answering one good question is like feeding a hungry person one meal, but teaching them research skills by example is teaching them to grow food for a lifetime.'
__________________
// Chad //
// 2006 BMW 330i Sport 6MT // 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid //
// 1997 Range Rover 4.0 // 1994 Range Rover Classic //
// 1997 Land Rover Discovery // 1998 Land Rover Discovery //
// 2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 // 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250 //
// 1999 Chevy Tahoe //
Ok...this is getting ridiculous. Someone come buy a few of these things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimKlim View Post
You're a derbanana
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:42 AM
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E36 Phantom E36 Phantom is offline
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Double post.

Last edited by E36 Phantom; 03-18-2009 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Dammit. Double Post.
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:49 AM
farrk007 farrk007 is offline
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this is not the first time you have responded to one of my posts and i have to question the amount of time you have on your hands......i'll extend you the courtesy you dont have and say this:

PLEASE IF YOU CANT ANSWER MY POST THEN DONT.

but these smart remarks really belong somewhere else. this is a forum and if everyone had the same attitude you do then there be no reason to have new posts.
'
AREN'T ALL THE PROBLEMS PPL FACE HERE WITH THEIR CARS JUST A REPEAT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO SOMEONE ELSE?

please guy....if your bored, hit the gym or something 'cos i've had it with your comments
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:00 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farrk007 View Post
this is not the first time you have responded to one of my posts and i have to question the amount of time you have on your hands......i'll extend you the courtesy you dont have and say this:

PLEASE IF YOU CANT ANSWER MY POST THEN DONT.

but these smart remarks really belong somewhere else. this is a forum and if everyone had the same attitude you do then there be no reason to have new posts.
'
AREN'T ALL THE PROBLEMS PPL FACE HERE WITH THEIR CARS JUST A REPEAT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO SOMEONE ELSE?

please guy....if your bored, hit the gym or something 'cos i've had it with your comments
Where's the fun in THAT?
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:11 PM
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E36 Phantom E36 Phantom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farrk007 View Post
this is not the first time you have responded to one of my posts and i have to question the amount of time you have on your hands......i'll extend you the courtesy you dont have and say this:

PLEASE IF YOU CANT ANSWER MY POST THEN DONT.

but these smart remarks really belong somewhere else. this is a forum and if everyone had the same attitude you do then there be no reason to have new posts.
'
AREN'T ALL THE PROBLEMS PPL FACE HERE WITH THEIR CARS JUST A REPEAT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO SOMEONE ELSE?

please guy....if your bored, hit the gym or something 'cos i've had it with your comments
I did answer your post. First thing I said. My answer is RTFM.

It's explicitly detailed in a cute little chart. It seems like it's in the 80's or 90's page numbers. None of us know your local climate. And we've all answered this question to that effect multiple times.

So in conclusion, move your little mouse button to the one the says SEARCH and click it before posting a thread. And for something obvious like oil weights, light bulb types, etc, check the damn manual first. That's what it's there for.

__________________
// Chad //
// 2006 BMW 330i Sport 6MT // 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid //
// 1997 Range Rover 4.0 // 1994 Range Rover Classic //
// 1997 Land Rover Discovery // 1998 Land Rover Discovery //
// 2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 // 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250 //
// 1999 Chevy Tahoe //
Ok...this is getting ridiculous. Someone come buy a few of these things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimKlim View Post
You're a derbanana
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2009, 12:20 PM
farrk007 farrk007 is offline
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OH MAN!!! THATS HOW THAT THING WORKS "PHANTOM"...I'LL BE SURE TO USE IT!!!

MANY MANY THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE, WOW!!




"someppl in life have tiny egos, so to boost it they must **** on others to stroke theirs"

Last edited by farrk007; 03-18-2009 at 12:20 PM. Reason: sp. error
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  #8  
Old 03-18-2009, 01:29 PM
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bimmerblack bimmerblack is offline
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 Phantom View Post
I did answer your post. First thing I said. My answer is RTFM.

It's explicitly detailed in a cute little chart. It seems like it's in the 80's or 90's page numbers. None of us know your local climate. And we've all answered this question to that effect multiple times.

So in conclusion, move your little mouse button to the one the says SEARCH and click it before posting a thread. And for something obvious like oil weights, light bulb types, etc, check the damn manual first. That's what it's there for.

Absolutely Unnecessary. You would have spent a shorter amount of time answering his question which i surmise you surely know. If you enjoy this however. whatever.
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2009, 01:33 PM
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heidifleiss heidifleiss is offline
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looks like someone hasn't been getting enough of lovin' lately
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2009, 01:56 PM
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E36 Phantom E36 Phantom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerblack View Post
Absolutely Unnecessary. You would have spent a shorter amount of time answering his question which i surmise you surely know. If you enjoy this however. whatever.
By that grounds your post is unnecessary as well. But all of that is irrelevant.

I'm not sure which part of my post you missed - you choose oil by climate. I don't know what "summer climate" would be in the "great white north." Do you? I don't even know where the "great white north" is - do you? There's a chart in the owners' manual. That's what it's there for. Look at the chart, put in the oil.

I have absolutely, positively no desire to help someone who wants to be spoon fed. If you don't want to do some thinking on your own, you're not a contributing part of the community, you're a time waster. I, for one, don't want time wasters sucking up resources on our board.

I told the OP where the information could be found (in the manual). I even gave him or her a rough idea of where to find it in the manual. If that's not enough information for an intelligent person to decide with, then excuse me for being rude, but I would much rather them leave and find another board, because they're utterly useless to our community.

And Heidi......... It's finals week. Plan is to remedy said lovin' situation this weekend.
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// Chad //
// 2006 BMW 330i Sport 6MT // 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid //
// 1997 Range Rover 4.0 // 1994 Range Rover Classic //
// 1997 Land Rover Discovery // 1998 Land Rover Discovery //
// 2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 // 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250 //
// 1999 Chevy Tahoe //
Ok...this is getting ridiculous. Someone come buy a few of these things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimKlim View Post
You're a derbanana
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  #11  
Old 03-18-2009, 02:01 PM
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B/\/\W B/\/\W is offline
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Summer and winter, WTF. The engine is the same temperature inside at normal operation regardless of where you live or what temperature it is, therefore you want thick viscosity at running temperature whatever the time of year. Let's have some common sense.

Just for your information, 15W-50 is rated for use down to -20 C. This business of putting in 5W-30 for when the engine is warming up is unnecessary.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2009, 03:09 PM
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HyphE36 HyphE36 is offline
Search Button Upper Right
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*sniff* *snifffff* ~~ I SMELL BEEF !!! ~~ *sniff* *snifffff*

*unnecessary post *
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2009, 05:39 PM
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Progress Progress is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farrk007 View Post
OH MAN!!! THATS HOW THAT THING WORKS "PHANTOM"...I'LL BE SURE TO USE IT!!!

MANY MANY THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE, WOW!!




"someppl in life have tiny egos, so to boost it they must **** on others to stroke theirs"
You, Shut the F*** Up, And use the search button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerblack View Post
Absolutely Unnecessary. You would have spent a shorter amount of time answering his question which i surmise you surely know. If you enjoy this however. whatever.
You, Read what you type before you say it. That way you don't look like a idiot doing what you just said not to do.
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As soon as I saw "Progress" as I was scrolling down I knew you were gonna piss on his parade....
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2009, 05:56 PM
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ffej ffej is offline
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Allow me to chime in as the voice of reason.

Asking a question that has already been discussed 11,289,365,211 times is bound to get you some smarmy answers. Seriously. Use the fvcking search button and pull the manual out of your glove box and read it. I did a search for "summer oil" in *just* the E36 forum and got 39 results. Many of them looked like they'd be useful.

If, after those two things fail to get you the answer you're seeking, then DELIBERATELY state that you have ALREADY DONE YOUR DUE DILIGENCE before you ask the question. That way, you're far more likely to get help.

Chad, you need to get some sleep or some nookie or both.
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My input is that ffej knows what he's talking about .
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2009, 07:35 PM
farrk007 farrk007 is offline
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well.........i think i'm like the 5th owner of this particular e36 so no fvckin manual to read thank you very much!

while i sincerely appreciate the response, yes i could have searched b/4 i posted but i didn't, i dont have to get an essay/schooling 'cos i failed to do so, especially from a person who has a knack for being such a "child" here on this forum....i have read numerous posts to which "phantom" has responded to and i have to say the guys a real piece of work.

sorry his comments got the best of me today.

as for you "progress".........really?, is that the best you can do?....... give yourself a pat on the back for me eh.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2009, 01:21 AM
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E36 Phantom E36 Phantom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffej View Post
Chad, you need to get some sleep or some nookie or both.
Agreed. Plans in place to remedy said situation this weekend as soon as the damn finals are over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farrk007 View Post
well.........i think i'm like the 5th owner of this particular e36 so no fvckin manual to read thank you very much!

while i sincerely appreciate the response, yes i could have searched b/4 i posted but i didn't, i dont have to get an essay/schooling 'cos i failed to do so, especially from a person who has a knack for being such a "child" here on this forum....i have read numerous posts to which "phantom" has responded to and i have to say the guys a real piece of work.
I agree. That guy was such a douchebag. Can't believe he would say all that. Damn jackass. Shoulda just spoon fed you the answer.

Oh wait.

Nevermind.

Thanks for the kind words, bro!

And seriously, get a f*cking manual. If not, search, and we've answered it for people before. If you search Google, you can even get an image of the chart someone scanned in. Glad to know you appreciate my responses on the board though!
__________________
// Chad //
// 2006 BMW 330i Sport 6MT // 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid //
// 1997 Range Rover 4.0 // 1994 Range Rover Classic //
// 1997 Land Rover Discovery // 1998 Land Rover Discovery //
// 2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 // 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250 //
// 1999 Chevy Tahoe //
Ok...this is getting ridiculous. Someone come buy a few of these things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimKlim View Post
You're a derbanana
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2009, 01:49 AM
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jason_recliner jason_recliner is offline
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ww

So THAT'S the Monologue, huh? I've been waiting to see it for weeks.
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2009, 02:35 AM
farrk007 farrk007 is offline
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Anytime bro!!!......i've kept quiet in the past when you made rude comments on my posts hoping you'd catch some manna but seeing as that hope was bust i figured a dose of your own meds would do you a world of good.

Last edited by farrk007; 03-19-2009 at 02:42 AM. Reason: sp. error
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  #19  
Old 03-19-2009, 05:59 AM
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jason_recliner jason_recliner is offline
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You don't catch manna. You just pick it up of the ground every morning.
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A word on our sponsors: Iridium sparks thanks to NGK. #42 wheels are lovingly dressed by Yokohama C-Drive. The dark road ahead is turned into daylight by Eagle-Eye 6000K HID, supplemented by 7000K CCFL Angel eyes. HB/Fog have selected to go with Philips 4000K BlueVision. Engine parts choose to slip and slide with Castrol's finest 20-50 GTX genuine dinosaur slime, renewed every 10,000km.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2009, 12:45 AM
e30e e30e is offline
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to quote myself from the e36 chat with chad i am having now: Mobil 1 if your poor, royal purple if your baller........the f'n car does not care.
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  #21  
Old 03-20-2009, 01:37 PM
orangeman orangeman is offline
 
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I see this, not just on the forums, but in real life situations also. I have worked in retail most of my life. Some people just can't do anything for themselves. I don't understand it. Some people need to be walked through everything and can't find information on there own even though that information is made readily available with little search. I compare them to little old ladies at grocery stores that need help finding everything on their shopping list.

Other people are independent and resourceful. They usually need little help, and these people I like.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2009, 09:45 PM
Franky goes Franky goes is offline
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I though there was a rule or something to the effect of remaining civil to forum members ?
I must be old school because I feel it's more important than asking, or not, the correct question.

If I may suggest... If you don't like a question move to the next thread. Easy, painless and fast.
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  #23  
Old 03-21-2009, 11:44 AM
C Sean Watts C Sean Watts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky goes View Post
I though there was a rule or something to the effect of remaining civil to forum members ?
I must be old school because I feel it's more important than asking, or not, the correct question.

If I may suggest... If you don't like a question move to the next thread. Easy, painless and fast.
With the children around here (whom most still live in Mom's basement) you would waste your own efforts. Of all the BMW fora in English, this one has the mean of the least educated and most B.S. filled individuals on the entire net.
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  #24  
Old 03-21-2009, 05:01 PM
farrk007 farrk007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Sean Watts View Post
With the children around here (whom most still live in Mom's basement) you would waste your own efforts. Of all the BMW fora in English, this one has the mean of the least educated and most B.S. filled individuals on the entire net.
I hate to have to agree with you on that comment. i dont know why they have to be such a-holes but as the saying goes "it takes all kinds" this one particular guy that responded with the "essay" seems to be one of the worst ones here...Its like he's got an itch...or maybe too much time on his hands, then you have the few that are just bored.

Last edited by farrk007; 03-24-2009 at 03:43 AM. Reason: SP. ERROR
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2013, 03:27 PM
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DinanM3e36 DinanM3e36 is offline
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Damn use 0-40 there
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