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Old 08-05-2013, 01:29 PM
x6_NJ x6_NJ is offline
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Does RV for 2014 335i really went to 65% and it will effect of all upcoming ED?

Guys,

I really need to be clear if my CA is playing by rules in this ED deal of I simply was fooled.

First of all I need to admit that my CA was very helpful thought the whole process of placing ED order. Back in the mid of June he confirmed sweet ED invoice deal for 2014 335i (36 x 10 k with $2186 out of pocket and monthly payment is $489.32) I was very happy and SIGNED a paperwork with $500 deposit.

How when my Munich delivery date is 2 weeks away (Aug 19) and car already in production I am getting the following email from him: "...BMW has
dropped the residual payment from 65% on the 2013 335i to 61% on the 2014 335i. Your new payment is now $562.24. BMW dropped the rebate from $750 to $500".

This increase in monthly payment will cost me $2500 more over the lease period. Was not I suppose to be locked in June rates? Why is my CA changing to the August rates?

If this is a true for all 2014 ED orders which has been placed earlier in June then I would expect to see many posts with similar issues, but I was not able to fine them.

Please advice what is my chances to get this car for the price we initially agreed and when my ED order was placed.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:08 PM
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To my knowledge the first lease rates BMWFS published for 2014 model year 3ers was in July, so there was nothing to lock in for an order placed in June. The August rates and loyalty incentives are the same as those published in July.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:09 PM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x6_NJ View Post
Guys,

I really need to be clear if my CA is playing by rules in this ED deal of I simply was fooled.

First of all I need to admit that my CA was very helpful thought the whole process of placing ED order. Back in the mid of June he confirmed sweet ED invoice deal for 2014 335i (36 x 10 k with $2186 out of pocket and monthly payment is $489.32) I was very happy and SIGNED a paperwork with $500 deposit.

How when my Munich delivery date is 2 weeks away (Aug 19) and car already in production I am getting the following email from him: "...BMW has
dropped the residual payment from 65% on the 2013 335i to 61% on the 2014 335i. Your new payment is now $562.24. BMW dropped the rebate from $750 to $500".

This increase in monthly payment will cost me $2500 more over the lease period. Was not I suppose to be locked in June rates? Why is my CA changing to the August rates?

If this is a true for all 2014 ED orders which has been placed earlier in June then I would expect to see many posts with similar issues, but I was not able to fine them.

Please advice what is my chances to get this car for the price we initially agreed and when my ED order was placed.
You can usually only lock in rates for 60 days from when your credit is run and vehicle is ordered. However, none of this matters ...

You were fooled, because he quoted you a monthly payment for a 2014 in June, which is impossible, since 2014's didn't have lease rates available until July. So he tried to "ballpark" your payment using 2013 rates, which was irresponsible and probably "planned", as he knew 2014 rates would be more expensive than 2013 ones for the first few months of production.

2013 Residual was 65% in june for 36 month and 10K miles per year. It moved down to 63% for the same lease program in July and August..

2014 Residual was 61% in July for the same lease program as the 2013 listed above, and remained the same in August.

In other words, you're getting kinda killed, because your residual dropped 4% from the time you were quoted until the time your delivery month's lease program were realized, and you took a slight reduction in your incentive.

Unfortunately, you're SOL since you have to use August rates as there were no rates that existed when your credit was run for 2014's. Maybe you can shop the lot to see if any 2013's fit your tastes? Otherwise you're going to have to pony up.

That said, the "rebate", is the loyalty incentive, correct? That DID drop from $750 to $500. But I would verify which incentive you were utilizing to confirm.

I would try and talk to a manager. You shouldn't have been misled with a false quote on a separate car (2013) when you were ordering a (2014). Perhaps they can give you an additional reduction of the selling price of the vehicle to compensate you for the misunderstanding.

If you have the patience, you could threaten to not take the car when it arrives, and get your deposit back, and start the ordering process all over at another dealer. At least this way by the time you take delivery, the lease programs for 2014's will have improved and your payment will be better. Only you can weigh this decision though.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:20 PM
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Seems like bait and switch, plain and simple. If it was a regular order, I'd get deposit back and move on. CA should be very clear about pricing on new MY and most won't guarantee you anything till they have the actual #s.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilF30 View Post
You can usually only lock in rates for 60 days from when your credit is run and vehicle is ordered. However, none of this matters ...

You were fooled, because he quoted you a monthly payment for a 2014 in June, which is impossible, since 2014's didn't have lease rates available until July. So he tried to "ballpark" your payment using 2013 rates, which was irresponsible and probably "planned", as he knew 2014 rates would be more expensive than 2013 ones for the first few months of production.

2013 Residual was 65% in june for 36 month and 10K miles per year. It moved down to 63% for the same lease program in July and August..

2014 Residual was 61% in July for the same lease program as the 2013 listed above, and remained the same in August.

In other words, you're getting kinda killed, because your residual dropped 4% from the time you were quoted until the time your delivery month's lease program were realized, and you took a slight reduction in your incentive.

Unfortunately, you're SOL since you have to use August rates as there were no rates that existed when your credit was run for 2014's. Maybe you can shop the lot to see if any 2013's fit your tastes? Otherwise you're going to have to pony up.

That said, the "rebate", is the loyalty incentive, correct? That DID drop from $750 to $500. But I would verify which incentive you were utilizing to confirm.

I would try and talk to a manager. You shouldn't have been misled with a false quote on a separate car (2013) when you were ordering a (2014). Perhaps they can give you an additional reduction of the selling price of the vehicle to compensate you for the misunderstanding.

If you have the patience, you could threaten to not take the car when it arrives, and get your deposit back, and start the ordering process all over at another dealer. At least this way by the time you take delivery, the lease programs for 2014's will have improved and your payment will be better. Only you can weigh this decision though.
He got his car at ED invoice from a forum sponsor. There is no room for a further price reduction. It appears to me from the email he quoted that the CA stated he was working from MY 2013 numbers. I imagine he notified the OP that those numbers could not be guaranteed.

It isn't the agreed upon car pricing that changed; it is the actual lease terms that ended up being offered by BMWFS and there's nothing the CA or dealership can do about that. The OP could choose to buy the car at the agreed upon price rather than lease it if he wants.

If the OP chooses at this point not to take the car the dealership will be forced to take it and they will incur penalties for a cancelled ED order. The OP took a chance with his June order and now he is between a rock and a hard place. This deal isn't going to get any better and if he were to back out of it the dealer is very unlikely to do anymore business with him at all.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:33 PM
x6_NJ x6_NJ is offline
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Thank to all of you for your quick responses.

I have dozen of emails between me and my CA - our deal was well documented but non of his email was clearly stating that it was estimated calculation and it will be change as soon as August rates will comes in.


So I am thinking to call general manager of that dealership and see if they would be willing to to work this our with me.

BTW what is the money factor for Aug ED Delivery? I want to confirm dealer's updated calculation myself.

Last edited by x6_NJ; 08-05-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x6_NJ View Post
Thank to all of you for your quick responses.

I have dozen of emails between me and my CA - our deal was well documented but non of his email was clearly stating that it was estimated calculation and it will be change as soon as August rates will comes in.


So I am thinking to call general manager of that dealership and see if they would be willing to to work this our with me.

BTW what is the money factor for Aug ED Delivery? I want to confirm dealer's updated calculation myself.
You should post that question in the Ask a Dealer forum. You may or may not get an answer. Jon Shafer has recently said the BMWFS has cracked down on him and others publishing MFs as this is considered confidential proprietary information. Having said that, from posts I've seen it appears it has stayed the same as July, which was widely reported to be .00127 and possibly dropped to .00125. You will need to add .0003 to that for the mandatory ED adder, which is non-negotiable.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:34 PM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
He got his car at ED invoice from a forum sponsor. There is no room for a further price reduction. It appears to me from the email he quoted that the CA stated he was working from MY 2013 numbers. I imagine he notified the OP that those numbers could not be guaranteed.

It isn't the agreed upon car pricing that changed; it is the actual lease terms that ended up being offered by BMWFS and there's nothing the CA or dealership can do about that. The OP could choose to buy the car at the agreed upon price rather than lease it if he wants.

If the OP chooses at this point not to take the car the dealership will be forced to take it and they will incur penalties for a cancelled ED order. The OP took a chance with his June order and now he is between a rock and a hard place. This deal isn't going to get any better and if he were to back out of it the dealer is very unlikely to do anymore business with him at all.
Sorry, but that's a bad CA. The CA quoted him for a MY2013 and bait and switched to a MY2014, and as a result payment increased almost $100. If the CA had no facts (which, he didn't, since we all know they weren't published until the month following the order), the CA should have said so. I would definitely raise a stink with management at the dealer or BMW NA.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:51 PM
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Bad CA.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by EstorilF30 View Post
Sorry, but that's a bad CA. The CA quoted him for a MY2013 and bait and switched to a MY2014, and as a result payment increased almost $100. If the CA had no facts (which, he didn't, since we all know they weren't published until the month following the order), the CA should have said so. I would definitely raise a stink with management at the dealer or BMW NA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Bad CA.
I think you guys might be jumping to some quick conclusions. It very well could be what you guys are saying, but we are only getting one side of the story. Not saying the OP is lying, but these mis-communications happen often. Unless we have more facts and the CA's side of the story, I'm not sure we can really know what happened yet.

But, unfortunately reality is reality, especially with time being so short. OP you really have few options and I'm sorry it worked out like it did. I would be shocked if a board sponsored CA would do this for just a little bit more profit. Full well knowing what kind of a sh** storm it can start on Bimmerfest.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:36 PM
x6_NJ x6_NJ is offline
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Guys,

Actually I never mentioned in my posts that
I was dealing with one of the CA who is sponser of this forum. Sure each story has 2 sides but I have copy of the buyer order where CA wrote: 2014 BMW 335 and listed all of the option and payments. I will post that tomorrow for you to see.

Once we agreed on the deal back in June my CA took $500 deposit and has been very heplfu with all questions and selecting delivery date. I told him that I am buying tickes, booking hotels and looking forward for this event which I was dreaming of for at least 10 years

Now when vacation days already reserved and canceling the trip is not an option I was nicely surprised with his email just 2 weeks before delivery.

Sure I can afford to pay an extra $70 bucks a month but I feel like now like a have big ink stain on my white short which put on for the biggest event of my life ...

Don't you think CA should note on the buyer order that quotes might change once MY 2014 rates will be announce.

BTW in his last email he told me that I can cancel my order if the fine of $500...

Thank to all of you guys for support and understanding!

Last edited by x6_NJ; 08-05-2013 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:50 PM
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You posted in another thread that your deal was handled by a forum sponsor.

Communication may have been a problem, but did you agree to buy a car you wanted at a specified price or did you agree to buy a payment? As I said previously the CA nor the dealer have an ounce of control over the lease terms that BMWFS decided to offer on 2014 model 3ers.

Personally I have never seen a buyer's order that specified monthly payments. Typically buyer's orders spell out the details of the purchase, not the financing. I'll be interested to see what yours shows.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:19 AM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x6_NJ View Post
Guys,

Actually I never mentioned in my posts that
I was dealing with one of the CA who is sponser of this forum. Sure each story has 2 sides but I have copy of the buyer order where CA wrote: 2014 BMW 335 and listed all of the option and payments. I will post that tomorrow for you to see.

Once we agreed on the deal back in June my CA took $500 deposit and has been very heplfu with all questions and selecting delivery date. I told him that I am buying tickes, booking hotels and looking forward for this event which I was dreaming of for at least 10 years

Now when vacation days already reserved and canceling the trip is not an option I was nicely surprised with his email just 2 weeks before delivery.

Sure I can afford to pay an extra $70 bucks a month but I feel like now like a have big ink stain on my white short which put on for the biggest event of my life ...

Don't you think CA should note on the buyer order that quotes might change once MY 2014 rates will be announce.

BTW in his last email he told me that I can cancel my order if the fine of $500...

Thank to all of you guys for support and understanding!
Nah, deposit doesn't work that way (as I have learned). Canceling an order doesn't mean you don't get your deposit back.

If you're comfortable paying $2,520 more over the course of the lease, then so be it - it's your wallet.

If I were in your shoes, I would raise hell. I have no patience for sly CA's.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:20 AM
EstorilF30 EstorilF30 is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You posted in another thread that your deal was handled by a forum sponsor.

Communication may have been a problem, but did you agree to buy a car you wanted at a specified price or did you agree to buy a payment? As I said previously the CA nor the dealer have an ounce of control over the lease terms that BMWFS decided to offer on 2014 model 3ers.

Personally I have never seen a buyer's order that specified monthly payments. Typically buyer's orders spell out the details of the purchase, not the financing. I'll be interested to see what yours shows.
This is a good point for clarification - did the OP KNOW they were ordering a 2013 or 2014?

Orders don't specify monthly payments, but the buyer is making a huge uneducated decision if he doesn't negotiate the financing before the order process to end up with a ballpark payment that may slightly change by the date of delivery.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by EstorilF30 View Post
Nah, deposit doesn't work that way (as I have learned). Canceling an order doesn't mean you don't get your deposit back.

If you're comfortable paying $2,520 more over the course of the lease, then so be it - it's your wallet.

If I were in your shoes, I would raise hell. I have no patience for sly CA's.
Do we know the CA was being disingenuous in this case? There are so many things we don't know. Plus what would the CA's motivation be to jack up the monthly payment? If it is truly what has been said the RV factor went from 65% to 61% it does nothing for the CA or dealers bottom line. From the numbers the OP posted on the other website it was a hell of a deal for this car. Now if they changed the price of the car, then yes you got screwed.

I'll say it again, I would be stunned if the CA who is a forum sponsor and would not be newbie CA would make a mistake like this. Like others have said there would be know way to get a lease payment as the figures for August weren't even out yet. So I'm guessing the OP wanted a ballpark payment and they used what numbers they had, but again would be surprised that the CA didn't tell the OP that those numbers were subject to changing. If the CA really did not say that and promised you the original price, then yes you have reason to raise hell.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:20 AM
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Hi guys, I never though my post will create so much activity and now I feel obligated to tell you how the story is unfolding.

Well, many of you already pointing out to miscommunication as main reason for the situation I ended up with. However, I purposely used ONLY emails during the price negotiation and later for configuration of the car. I had just one 5 mins call conversation with CA after we both come to agreement on all details via email.

As you all predicted correctly CA told me that it was an estimated lease number
for 2013 model and now with new rates for 2014 lease number has been adjusted BUT !!! he is keeping his main promise and still selling car for ED invoice, as he promised originally. After that I reminded him that all deal has been documented in many emails and asked to forward me at least one email which clearly states that it was estimation. Sure, he can't find that email and told me that he mentioned to me in our conversation over the phone.

Well after that I scanned his "estimated" document and highlighted MY 2014 as my the only solid proof in writing - see attached file.

Still claiming that it was miscommunication CA offered me to cancel order without any penalties. At that point I felt like I got my victory but all it meant that someone else will be driving my "hand build" Alpine on Red Beauty

Since tickets and hotels has been booked and the only option to keep planned itinerary (Munich - Cannes - Geneva) was to rent the carů it could be also BMW but not the one it meant to be. The whole idea about that special trip has turning in "just another" European vacation.

It's not hard to guess that I decided to keep the car and go for my first ED. Lucky me - I know I can afford increase in payments and the toughest part of this story was how to explain my wife why new "toy" will cost more..

I must admit that communication with CA has been conducted in a very civilized manner and he was extremely responsive to all of my requests.

Even after I spent many hours reading this forum and educating myself how to get good deal for ED I misunderstood the concert of "locking the rate", to be exact I did not realized that it can't be applied to new year model and I hope by reading this thread other members of this forum won't make such a mistake.

Also I took some time to cool off before I was ready to write this summary and now I decided not to announce CA name because technically (!!!) if it would not be for such big change in BMW lease rates for 2014, he (CA) would gave me the deal he promised originally. Whoever was right or wrong - let it be peace !!!
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2013, 03:17 PM
Daniel @ #1 Daniel @ #1 is offline
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I dont think you shouldve blocked the name of CA or dealership.
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