BMW N20 timing - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)

F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-30-2019, 03:31 PM
lianomorga lianomorga is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 3
Mein Auto:
BMW N20 timing

I bought my first car a 2013 BMW 328i at carmax back in July. I'm almost at 80k and just did my first oil change 2 days ago. Is the timing chain issue that bad!? I really want this car to last up to college with me. I'm 17 and I work and pay for it while doing school too. Should I get the timing chain replaced? Or take the gamble and hope it doesn't break.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 09-30-2019, 03:55 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Is the car in US? If so BWMNA does have 7 years/70000 miles extended limited warranty(ELW) on it, but your mileage already exceeds the ELW.

There is an ongoing class action lawsuit, and rumor mill says there may be resolution in the coming months.

One option is to keep an eye/ear for possible clues of TC issues, e.g. excessive wear marks on TC links, and/or high pitch whining noise.

Some also said 6-7k miles of OCI can help, but there is no scientific proof.

My game plan right now is to wait, mainly that the wear marks are not excessive, and there is no high pitch whining noise yet. If the lawsuit results in extension of ELW(extension of an extension!), that it will be A-OK.

Last edited by namelessman; 09-30-2019 at 04:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-01-2019, 07:12 AM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
Registered User
Location: Fort Worth
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 04 325Ci Sport Coupe
My opinion: pay me now or pay me later; it is a ticking time bomb.

I have a 2012 with 115K. The chain guide let go in July. Per my son, there was none of the typical noise from the chain. the final analysis by my dealer was that the engine had to be replaced since bits of plastic had spread through the engine when the 3 inch piece of the guide was ground up in the front of the engine. Was offered a new engine at their cost (8K), but decided to buy a used engine an swap engines. before I swapped, I did the timing chain / guide as well as the turbo oil feed line. Now I have a 2012 with 115K with a 55K engine.

My recommendation:

1) Call your local dealer and see if the warranty work has been done. they are usually very happy to answer the question.
2) If they seem like a helpful dealer (not all are), engage them in the possibility of performing the work under warranty. Dealers will sometimes advocate for you.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:46 AM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,485
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Replace it.
I did on my 2011 VW Tiguan with EA888 engine that was known for similar issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:29 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleswk View Post
I have a 2012 with 115K. The chain guide let go in July. Per my son, there was none of the typical noise from the chain. the final analysis by my dealer was that the engine had to be replaced since bits of plastic had spread through the engine when the 3 inch piece of the guide was ground up in the front of the engine. Was offered a new engine at their cost (8K), but decided to buy a used engine an swap engines. before I swapped, I did the timing chain / guide as well as the turbo oil feed line. Now I have a 2012 with 115K with a 55K engine.
Was there a CEL, e.g. camshaft sensor fault? What led you to bring the car to dealer for final analysis?

When you said "before I swapped, I did the timing chain /guide ...." should the swapped engine already have timing chain / guide? Why TC/guide was done before swapping engine?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:59 AM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
Registered User
Location: Fort Worth
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 04 325Ci Sport Coupe
The CEL question is a bit irrelevant because the car died on the side of the road in remote new Mexico with no warning (per my son, no noises or CEL and I believe him because he's a bit of a gearhead) and never started after that. When I got it towed to a nearby indie shop, the codes read were for cam errors, oil pressure error, among others. He drained the oil and found bits of plastic in the oil. I made the decision after talking to my local dealer to get it towed to them since I have a good relationship with them. They were the ones that decided engine was done becuase it was likely that bits of plastic had spread through the oil system. Out of curiosity, I pulled the valve cover and oil pan after it was out of the car and there was a 3 inch piece of the guide missing from the top of the exhaust side of the guide and no large pieces anywhere. So, my assumption is it was ground up between the timing chain, the timing chain sprocket, oil chain, and oil chain sprocket. Oil pump chain was off it's sprocket. Note I was the one that did the work with a buddy of mine that has more skills than me and a lift.

One other note: when I got the replacement engine, I secured the VIN from the donor car and checked with my dealer whether the guide had been replaced and the answer was no. I replaced it before I dropped the motor in. I also checked the maintenance record on the car and fortunately, it was serviced regularly by my dealer, so I know the history of the engine.

Last edited by lyleswk; 10-02-2019 at 12:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-02-2019, 12:51 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleswk View Post
The CEL question is a bit irrelevant because the car died on the side of the road in remote new Mexico with no warning (per my son, no noises or CEL and I believe him because he's a bit of a gearhead) and never started after that. When I got it towed to a nearby indie shop, the codes read were for cam errors, oil pressure error, among others. He drained the oil and found bits of plastic in the oil. I made the decision after talking to my local dealer to get it towed to them since I have a good relationship with them. They were the ones that decided engine was done becuase it was likely that bits of plastic had spread through the oil system. Out of curiosity, I pulled the valve cover and oil pan after it was out of the car and there was a 3 inch piece of the guide missing from the top of the exhaust side of the guide and no large pieces anywhere. So, my assumption is it was ground up between the timing chain, the timing chain sprocket, oil chain, and oil chain sprocket. Oil pump chain was off it's sprocket. Note I was the one that did the work with a buddy of mine that has more skills than me and a lift.

One other note: when I got the replacement engine, I secured the VIN from the donor car and checked with my dealer whether the guide had been replaced and the answer was no. I replaced it before I dropped the motor in. I also checked the maintenance record on the car and fortunately, it was serviced regularly by my dealer, so I know the history of the engine.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

That is a smart move to replace the TC/guide on donor engine.

My car has 15 years/150000 miles of emission warranty, and foreman at dealer told me a timing chain problem usually triggers camshaft fault and a CEL, which is an automatic fail for smog test in CA. Failing smog is a covered case under the emission warranty!

Your comment of the cam error (which likely also fired a CEL) backs up the foreman's assertion.

Last edited by namelessman; 10-02-2019 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:28 PM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
Registered User
Location: Fort Worth
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 04 325Ci Sport Coupe
I wish mine had done that...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:23 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleswk View Post
I wish mine had done that...
Post#6 said your son's car broke down in New Mexico, which is a PZEV state.

If the car N26, and registered in New Mexico, and the cam error triggers CEL(which also is mandatory smoke fail in NM), then your failure will be covered!

Last edited by namelessman; 10-02-2019 at 09:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:17 AM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
Registered User
Location: Fort Worth
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 04 325Ci Sport Coupe
It is a Texas car. He and his new bride were visiting the Taos area. But again, there was no CEL, just catastrophic failure.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:12 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleswk View Post
It is a Texas car. He and his new bride were visiting the Taos area. But again, there was no CEL, just catastrophic failure.
Yike that is unfortunate.... There is hope that BMWNA will extend the 7 years/70000 miles ELW further, as mine will expire in a few weeks! :[
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:42 AM
DBU's Avatar
DBU DBU is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,116
Mein Auto: Glacier Silver X4 M40i
Quote:
Originally Posted by lianomorga View Post
I bought my first car a 2013 BMW 328i at carmax back in July. I'm almost at 80k and just did my first oil change 2 days ago. Is the timing chain issue that bad!? I really want this car to last up to college with me. I'm 17 and I work and pay for it while doing school too. Should I get the timing chain replaced? Or take the gamble and hope it doesn't break.
Welcome to the 'Fest.

Go here and educate yourself on this issue.

From reading this thread, one could get the impression that "there is zero warning" when the TC breaks. That is not completely accurate. If you decide to keep the car, make it a habit to listen to it on a monthly basis (have a buddy rev it a bit while you have your head under the hood). Then compare the sound/noise to the video clip on the link above. Also, open the oil filler cap and look at the top of the TC chain. Bright shiny scuff marks is what you don't want to see.
__________________
His: 2017 X4 M40i - Glacier Silver with all the options (except cold weather stuff) - not needed in SoCal
Hers: 2015 X4 28i - Glacier Silver - loaded M-Sport
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:53 AM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
Registered User
Location: Fort Worth
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 63
Mein Auto: 04 325Ci Sport Coupe
I totally agree that there are warnings (noise) a good bit of the time. Wasn't trying to imply it was always sudden and catastrophic.

I also hope they extend it. My hope is that if they do, then I may be able to get a little of the money back on my engine swap.

Last edited by lyleswk; 10-03-2019 at 11:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-03-2019, 01:00 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleswk View Post
I totally agree that there are warnings (noise) a good bit of the time. Wasn't trying to imply it was always sudden and catastrophic.

I also hope they extend it. My hope is that if they do, then I may be able to get a little of the money back on my engine swap.
Yes do keep all the paperwork, esp. the dealer diagnostics confirming engine was toasted due to TC issues, and any photo that dealer/indies took that showed the broken plastic pieces. If the ELW is further extended, then all(not just a little) out-of-pocket costs, including dealer diagnostics, will be reimbursed.

As far as noise, it is likely many owners unfortunately misinterpret the whining from a bad TC as just what Ultimate Driving Machine sounds like ....

Last edited by namelessman; 10-03-2019 at 02:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-04-2019, 06:21 AM
Our BMW Our BMW is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Minnesota
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 324
Mein Auto: 328xi GT
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBU View Post
Also, open the oil filler cap and look at the top of the TC chain. Bright shiny scuff marks is what you don't want to see.

Wouldn't Bright and shiny scuff marks mean something has already broken???
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy ****, what a ride!"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:19 AM
DBU's Avatar
DBU DBU is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,116
Mein Auto: Glacier Silver X4 M40i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our BMW View Post
Wouldn't Bright and shiny scuff marks mean something has already broken???
Yes, which is why "you *don't* want to see this."
__________________
His: 2017 X4 M40i - Glacier Silver with all the options (except cold weather stuff) - not needed in SoCal
Hers: 2015 X4 28i - Glacier Silver - loaded M-Sport
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-05-2019, 02:03 PM
Adamf4 Adamf4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
Mein Auto:
Ok guys so im in the uk and own a 2014 bmw 320i msport auto. Iv owned it for nearly a year and the car has clocked 66k miles. We drive on average 8k miles a year and most of them are short journeys like the school run or days out. Im aware of the timing chain and guides issue so every now and then open the oil cap on a morning and have a look. I dont obsess about it like some owners do but im just mindful of the fact this has been an issue across a few models. Iv included a photo so you can see...can anyone offer their opinion? Does it look ok? What should i look out for besides obvious broken parts.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20191005_101247_1570306020488.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	85.2 KB
ID:	867101  
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:50 AM
DBU's Avatar
DBU DBU is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,116
Mein Auto: Glacier Silver X4 M40i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamf4 View Post
Ok guys so im in the uk and own a 2014 bmw 320i msport auto. Iv owned it for nearly a year and the car has clocked 66k miles. We drive on average 8k miles a year and most of them are short journeys like the school run or days out. Im aware of the timing chain and guides issue so every now and then open the oil cap on a morning and have a look. I dont obsess about it like some owners do but im just mindful of the fact this has been an issue across a few models. Iv included a photo so you can see...can anyone offer their opinion? Does it look ok? What should i look out for besides obvious broken parts.
Sorry to say, but I believe these are the exact marks that indicate your TC is rubbing where it shouldn't be. Can you upload a video with sound?
__________________
His: 2017 X4 M40i - Glacier Silver with all the options (except cold weather stuff) - not needed in SoCal
Hers: 2015 X4 28i - Glacier Silver - loaded M-Sport
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:53 AM
Adamf4 Adamf4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
Mein Auto:
Thanks for the reply. Yeah sure il give that a go when the engines cold on a morning. Im not sure which marks you are referring to? Could you elaborate? I see a spotless chain with no scuffs or scratches and my oil is also clean considering it has not been changed since the last service 14k miles ago.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:18 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamf4 View Post
Im not sure which marks you are referring to? Could you elaborate? I see a spotless chain with no scuffs or scratches and my oil is also clean considering it has not been changed since the last service 14k miles ago.
In photo of post#17 there are shiny spots on the links(mine has the same).
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:39 PM
Adamf4 Adamf4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
Mein Auto:
From what iv seen there are no marks on the chain when i looked at it in person. Its possible the flash from the camera is making the chain appear to have some shiny spots. I will make a video and upload tomorrow during the daylight. The engine makes no whine or any kind of noise during idle or when driven forwards. Does anyone have an example of how the chain should look? So maybe seeing that we can compare and see the difference.

Thanks again guys.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-07-2019, 01:40 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamf4 View Post
Its possible the flash from the camera is making the chain appear to have some shiny spots.
The reflected flash light is OK, the silver shiny color patches are the wearing marks(compared to dull non-reflective surface). Magnifying the photo will clearly show the contrast.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-07-2019, 01:56 PM
Adamf4 Adamf4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
Mein Auto:
Ok i will take a few more photos and a video during the daytime and see what you guys think. Maybe on the next service which is due in 1000k miles it could be worth looking at replacing the guides and chain? What would your advice be?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-07-2019, 07:13 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,768
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamf4 View Post
Ok i will take a few more photos and a video during the daytime and see what you guys think. Maybe on the next service which is due in 1000k miles it could be worth looking at replacing the guides and chain? What would your advice be?
For a UK spec 2014 320i, is your driving habit hard driving, towing, uphill, etc, etc? How much is it to swap out timing chain, plastic rails, oil chain, and oil pump in your locales?

If used moderately, your 320i N20 [email protected] HP, without xDrive and no X3 weight to pull, may not stress TC too much as DD in mild terrain.

One option is to get familiar with the noise and sight of N20 TC issues from bmwtechnician.com thread, and keep an ear and eye on the issue. Another option is to sell the car.

Last edited by namelessman; 10-07-2019 at 08:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:11 AM
Adamf4 Adamf4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
Mein Auto:
Our driving habits are usually short journeys at low speed. We have young children so theres no hard driving at all. We do live on a hill so theres some hill driving daily but not to the point where the engine is straining to climb it. We dont tow and there is no heavy load in the car.

I have also read somewhere in the past that the darker coloured plastic guides are the modified ones...and it was the lighter ones that were being used pre 2014 that caused all the havoc.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.