Synth etic Oil Brand - Page 3 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)

E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:09 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
LL04 is a Low SAPS formulation not for use in U.S, Australia etc.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #52  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:47 PM
Andy320i Andy320i is offline
BMW E46 320i
Location: New Brunswick
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 57
Mein Auto: BMW 320i \ Ford Escape
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
This is the reference to LL-04:

http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php

"BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended."

Based on this if LL-01 is approved for E39 engines then LL-04 should be OK.
Thanks man. I assumed they would not be putting oil in my car that would be harmful. thanks
__________________
1995 Acura Integra (Sold)
2001 Mazda Protege MP3 (Sold)
2004 Acura RSX Type S (sold)
2001 Honda CBR F4i (sold)
2005 Ford Escape XLT 3L 4x4, winter beast
2004 BMW 320i Summer toy
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-21-2016, 11:01 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
You only need to worry about the LL (Long Life) spec if you are going to run longer (say 15,000 mile) oil change intervals. Just use a good quality oil and replace it at a reasonable (say 5000-7500 mile) interval. Your cooling system will explode and leave you with warped cylinder heads before you will suffer any oil related engine damage. That is what you should worry about.

Motor on!!!
Totally incorrect. The LL01 spec sets minimum viscosity, minimum HTHS, etc. Best not to post on an oil thread if you don't understand oil basics
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #54  
Old 02-21-2016, 11:14 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,771
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy320i View Post
Thanks man. I assumed they would not be putting oil in my car that would be harmful. thanks
However, this PDF from BMW does say LL-04 is only approved for use in Europe:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-O...s-and-Recs.pdf

LL-04 supposedly is not suited to high sulphur level in US spec gasoline, although CA CARB-regulated gasoline seems to have sulphur level approaching Euro 5 spec(and the rest of US supposedly should follow by 2017). Maybe it is best to stay with LL-01 for now.

Last edited by namelessman; 02-21-2016 at 11:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-21-2016, 11:17 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,771
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
Totally incorrect. The LL01 spec sets minimum viscosity, minimum HTHS, etc.
A side note is that BMW has moved to LL01FE and LL14FE which both has reduced HTHS in the name of fuel efficiency for MY16 and on N20/26/55 and B58 in US-spec cars. How can that be good for longevity of the engines?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-22-2016, 06:15 AM
crazy4trains's Avatar
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Milton, WV
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,440
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
Totally incorrect. The LL01 spec sets minimum viscosity, minimum HTHS, etc. Best not to post on an oil thread if you don't understand oil basics
I do understand oil "basics". For these cars all that one needs is a basic understanding of oil. These engines are not "special" and do not require special or unique oil characteristics if changed on a reasonable interval. I have yet to read one thread documenting engine failure from somebody that used a good quality non-LL01 oil and that changed the oil at a reasonable interval. Although there may be some science behind the LL01 spec, the main reason for it was purely marketing. BMW's bottom line is what drove them to develop the spec and not the other way around.

I stand behind my earlier statement.
__________________
2002 530i
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:40 AM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,437
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
I do understand oil "basics". For these cars all that one needs is a basic understanding of oil. These engines are not "special" and do not require special or unique oil characteristics if changed on a reasonable interval. I have yet to read one thread documenting engine failure from somebody that used a good quality non-LL01 oil and that changed the oil at a reasonable interval. Although there may be some science behind the LL01 spec, the main reason for it was purely marketing. BMW's bottom line is what drove them to develop the spec and not the other way around.

I stand behind my earlier statement.
If you said the oil cap name is purely marketing/bottom line, I would agree wholeheartedly.. I disagree vehemently that LL01 about the bottom line. Same goes for any manufacturer spec.

Done wrong, you get a VW 1.8T sludge factory.
__________________
e30: '87 325i: MAF+WAR chip, long tube STAHL headers, 5MT swap, 4.27 torsen
e60: '08 550i M-sport, 6MT, ARC, Active Steering, 19" wheel delete
R1100S - oilhead FTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoo View Post
Although I have nothing scientific to say, I can confidently say that it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
If you want to use the fuhrers snowmobile you gotta have das tires
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-22-2016, 11:01 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,771
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
If you said the oil cap name is purely marketing/bottom line, I would agree wholeheartedly.. I disagree vehemently that LL01 about the bottom line. Same goes for any manufacturer spec.

Done wrong, you get a VW 1.8T sludge factory.
Interestingly BMW now pushes LL-01FE on new cars, and that supposedly has HTHS of 2.9(versus 3.5 for FF-01). So nowadays even Mobil 1 5W30 with 3.1 and no A3/B3 seems to qualify for LL-01FE! But is HTHS of 2.9 really good for engine longevity?
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-22-2016, 11:15 AM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,437
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Interestingly BMW now pushes LL-01FE on new cars, and that supposedly has HTHS of 2.9(versus 3.5 for FF-01). So nowadays even Mobil 1 5W30 with 3.1 and no A3/B3 seems to qualify for LL-01FE! But is HTHS of 2.9 really good for engine longevity?
I have yet to have an engine wear out before the transmission/body/electrical was done first.
__________________
e30: '87 325i: MAF+WAR chip, long tube STAHL headers, 5MT swap, 4.27 torsen
e60: '08 550i M-sport, 6MT, ARC, Active Steering, 19" wheel delete
R1100S - oilhead FTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoo View Post
Although I have nothing scientific to say, I can confidently say that it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
If you want to use the fuhrers snowmobile you gotta have das tires
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-22-2016, 11:34 AM
crazy4trains's Avatar
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Milton, WV
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,440
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
I have yet to have an engine wear out before the transmission/body/electrical was done first.
Bingo. You win the prize.
__________________
2002 530i
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:01 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
I do understand oil "basics". For these cars all that one needs is a basic understanding of oil. These engines are not "special" and do not require special or unique oil characteristics if changed on a reasonable interval. I have yet to read one thread documenting engine failure from somebody that used a good quality non-LL01 oil and that changed the oil at a reasonable interval. Although there may be some science behind the LL01 spec, the main reason for it was purely marketing. BMW's bottom line is what drove them to develop the spec and not the other way around.

I stand behind my earlier statement.
Bluster. Can you explain why most XW30's don't meet spec for viscosity and HTHS yet BMW 5W30 does? We await with bated breath
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:19 PM
eburnz's Avatar
eburnz eburnz is offline
30FF <3
Location: DC MD VA
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,613
Mein Auto: 2007 335i sport
so mobile 1 & castrol edge is still good to top off with even with this label change?
__________________
2007 BMW 335i Sport
---
Gone but not forgotten:
2007 550i SMG AMRTuned (Prod. 10/2006)
2004 BMW 530i (Prod: 7/2004)
2001 BMW 525i (Prod: 10/2000)


"Call it what you want, it's a BMW"
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:03 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,771
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post
I have yet to have an engine wear out before the transmission/body/electrical was done first.
Your previous comment of "Done wrong, you get a VW 1.8T sludge factory." still means LL-01 is used to keep engine running so that transmission/body/electrical is done first, right?

The point though is that BMW is heading to a LL-01 "lite" spec, namely LL-01FE. So would you use LL-01FE instead of LL-01?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:57 PM
crazy4trains's Avatar
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Milton, WV
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,440
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
Bluster. Can you explain why most XW30's don't meet spec for viscosity and HTHS yet BMW 5W30 does? We await with bated breath
Please re-read my first post (#41).

I am sure that oil producers are producing better and better oils every day. My point is that "better is often the enemy of good enough". LL01 is good enough. Has been for 15 years. If the oil I buy tomorrow meets the LL01 spec of 10 years ago, but doesn't meet the new LL spec, then that is still good enough for me. I am not driving a high performance race car. Just buy a good quality oil from a major producer, (no dollar store stuff) and change it at a reasonable interval and all will be well.
__________________
2002 530i
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 02-22-2016, 02:50 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
Please re-read my first post (#41).

I am sure that oil producers are producing better and better oils every day. My point is that "better is often the enemy of good enough". LL01 is good enough. Has been for 15 years. If the oil I buy tomorrow meets the LL01 spec of 10 years ago, but doesn't meet the new LL spec, then that is still good enough for me. I am not driving a high performance race car. Just buy a good quality oil from a major producer, (no dollar store stuff) and change it at a reasonable interval and all will be well.
As expected you didn't needs understand the question nor could you answer it.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02-22-2016, 03:01 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 42,365
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
As expected you didn't needs understand the question nor could you answer it.
Give it a rest, Olga....what he`s saying (and rightfully so) is that BMW engines are machines (albeit finely-crafted machines), but they`re not powering the bleeding Space Shuttle, for Chrissakes....

Let me remind you that many generations of car guys behind us ran their high-performance racing engines on dino oil for decades....
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Disabled American Veterans*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02-22-2016, 03:34 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Give it a rest, Olga....what he`s saying (and rightfully so) is that BMW engines are machines (albeit finely-crafted machines), but they`re not powering the bleeding Space Shuttle, for Chrissakes....

Let me remind you that many generations of car guys behind us ran their high-performance racing engines on dino oil for decades....
He stated LL01 is purely about oci length when it obviously isn't. Do you understand why even though he doesn't?
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02-22-2016, 05:50 PM
crazy4trains's Avatar
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Milton, WV
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,440
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
As expected you didn't needs understand the question nor could you answer it.
No I did not answer the question. Nor do I need to. I made a "qualitative" statement about motor oil quality and engine longevity. I am a car enthusiast, not a petroleum engineer. FastBob hit the nail on the head.

Enjoy your evening.
__________________
2002 530i

Last edited by crazy4trains; 02-23-2016 at 10:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:08 PM
Fast Bob's Avatar
Fast Bob Fast Bob is offline
Keeping it surreal
Location: Here, there, everywhere....
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 42,365
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci ZHP 3 pedals
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
He stated LL01 is purely about oci length when it obviously isn't. Do you understand why even though he doesn't?
Are you familiar with the old saying "Can`t see the forest for the trees" ? Well, you are definitely THERE, my man.... truth be told, I couldn`t give a rat`s ass about the technical merits of any particular oil, because I put faith in the fact that a whole team of engineers WAY above my pay grade formulated these oils to get the job done, as I`m sure they do....
__________________
The road goes ever onward....
(R.I.P. Jever)

*Please support the Disabled American Veterans*

When faced with choosing between two evils, always go with the one you`ve never tried before....
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:37 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,771
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
I am sure that oil producers are producing better and better oils every day. My point is that "better is often the enemy of good enough". LL01 is good enough. Has been for 15 years. If the oil I buy tomorrow meets the LL01 spec of 10 years ago, but doesn't meet the new LL spec, then that is still good enough for me. I am not driving a high performance race car. Just buy a good quality oil from a major producer, (no dollar store stuff) and change it at a reasonable interval and all will be well.
It looks like for Mobil 1 0W40(and others too?) the issue is the the testing process is enhanced, and 0W40 no longer qualifies as LL-01. So the oil does not improve, but the testing improves, even when the spec LL-01 stays the same.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:53 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4trains View Post
No I did not answer the question. Nor do I need to. I made a "qualitative" statement about motor oil quality and engine longevity. I am an car enthusiast, not a petroleum engineer. FastBob hit the nail on the head.

Enjoy your evening.
Hers a tip. If you know nothing about oil stay of oil threads. Simple as...
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:55 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 239
Mein Auto: E46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Are you familiar with the old saying "Can`t see the forest for the trees" ? Well, you are definitely THERE, my man.... truth be told, I couldn`t give a rat`s ass about the technical merits of any particular oil, because I put faith in the fact that a whole team of engineers WAY above my pay grade formulated these oils to get the job done, as I`m sure they do....
Oh dear...
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:22 PM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,437
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Your previous comment of "Done wrong, you get a VW 1.8T sludge factory." still means LL-01 is used to keep engine running so that transmission/body/electrical is done first, right?

The point though is that BMW is heading to a LL-01 "lite" spec, namely LL-01FE. So would you use LL-01FE instead of LL-01?
My comment about the sludge factory means that spec'ing the wrong oil can have consequences. anyways, i would not rule out an FE oil purely on the basis of it being an FE oil, but that would not be my primary reason for using/not using it. I'd like to get some data before mixing it up, as what I'm doing now seems to be working out so far.
__________________
e30: '87 325i: MAF+WAR chip, long tube STAHL headers, 5MT swap, 4.27 torsen
e60: '08 550i M-sport, 6MT, ARC, Active Steering, 19" wheel delete
R1100S - oilhead FTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoo View Post
Although I have nothing scientific to say, I can confidently say that it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
If you want to use the fuhrers snowmobile you gotta have das tires
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:50 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,771
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Bob View Post
Are you familiar with the old saying "Can`t see the forest for the trees" ? Well, you are definitely THERE, my man.... truth be told, I couldn`t give a rat`s ass about the technical merits of any particular oil, because I put faith in the fact that a whole team of engineers WAY above my pay grade formulated these oils to get the job done, as I`m sure they do....
The subtle point is that the technical merits are the basis of the automaker's recommendations, so not understanding those merits (and/or demerits) will be a disservice to the consumers themselves. For example, when BMWAG starts to push LL-01FE as a substitute of LL-01, should consumers follow suite? Is the push of LL-01FE for BMWAG's benefits(e.g. CARB), or customer's(fuel efficiency)?

And the fact that the LL-01 testing is changed such that long standing, LL-01 is "demoted"(?) is an interesting development too. Should consumers feel confident to put any currently labeled LL-01 oil in their cars, since they put faith in the the engineers who originally came up with the rating, but now those oils fail the enhanced tests?

Last edited by namelessman; 02-22-2016 at 08:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 02-23-2016, 09:02 AM
crazy4trains's Avatar
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Milton, WV
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,440
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
Hers a tip. If you know nothing about oil stay of oil threads. Simple as...
Oh my, you really are stuck on yourself!

I know a little bit about oil. That level of knowledge is good enough for me and most others on this board. I think I'll stay.
__________________
2002 530i

Last edited by crazy4trains; 02-23-2016 at 09:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.