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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #151  
Old 02-27-2016, 09:17 PM
hans-groper hans-groper is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
My stockpile of LL-01 labeled M1 0w40 should last a while, so hopefully by then the reformulated 0w40 will become LL-01 approved again.
Probably a stupid question but how can I tell the difference between the old and new formulas on the label? TIA. (M1 0w40) Flame away everyone.
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  #152  
Old 02-27-2016, 10:47 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by hans-groper View Post
Probably a stupid question but how can I tell the difference between the old and new formulas on the label? TIA. (M1 0w40) Flame away everyone.
If the label says LL-01 approved then it should be the old formulation.
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  #153  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:13 AM
hp7950 hp7950 is offline
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Look on the production date of the oil do to oil oxydation if its freash so no problem at all .all the oils are very good and the marks are for mony making from the car makers

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  #154  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by hp7950 View Post
Look on the production date of the oil do to oil oxydation if its freash so no problem at all .all the oils are very good and the marks are for mony making from the car makers

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Engine oil should have no expiration date if unopened.
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  #155  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:03 AM
hp7950 hp7950 is offline
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It have long expiration but still evrything have a date .but i never see exp date but still few yers are ok but 5 yrs old are to long

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  #156  
Old 02-28-2016, 02:06 AM
hans-groper hans-groper is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
If the label says LL-01 approved then it should be the old formulation.
Thanks for that. I wonder when the new formulation will hit the shelves.
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  #157  
Old 02-28-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hans-groper View Post
Thanks for that. I wonder when the new formulation will hit the shelves.
It is already on the shelves in some locations. My local wallyworld still has the old formula on the shelves. Not sure for how long. I just bought some German made Castrol 0w-40 and will put that in tomorrow. I'm not too worried.
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  #158  
Old 02-28-2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by hans-groper View Post
Thanks for that. I wonder when the new formulation will hit the shelves.
Check out post#30 pictures. Our local walmart still had lots of the old jugs last week, but yesterday none was left.
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  #159  
Old 02-28-2016, 10:47 AM
hans-groper hans-groper is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Check out post#30 pictures. Our local walmart still had lots of the old jugs last week, but yesterday none was left.
Apparently there aren't many readers of this thread in your city. That's why was asking because Walmart is only a few blocks away and I'll be getting it there. Post #30 seems so long ago in this thread I forgot that pic was there. I can barely see the LL-01 with my elderly eyes.

Last edited by hans-groper; 02-28-2016 at 10:54 AM.
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  #160  
Old 02-28-2016, 06:57 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Interestingly, the recently purchased bottles of Mobil 1 oil, as well as BMW(twinpower turbo) oil, no longer has production dates on them. In the past there were production dates on the BMW high performance oil, as well as Mobil 1 as well. So does it mean these LL-01 engine oils have no expiration dates(if stored in cool temperatures)?
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  #161  
Old 03-16-2016, 07:26 PM
tpaxadpom tpaxadpom is offline
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I got tired of speculations and wrote a message to Mobil 1 tech support today. I am sharing this information but I deleted the contact of the person who reply for legal purposes.

My message:
I have a question about the European Formula Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 engine oil. I have noticed that recently the packaging has changed and LL01 certification was dropped. The name has changed as well to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. What is the difference between Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and Mobil 1 0W-40? What does FS stands for? Is there a difference in the chemestry between the two?

Reply:

Yes, we did recently introduce a new formulation, along with a new product name to differentiate the two. One assumes FS is just short for Full Synthetic. Performance of the new recipe is very comparable to the outgoing product.

At the same time, BMW had modified the testing requirement for the LL-01 spec adding of a more severe N20 2liter turbo test that, apparently, we do not yet meet.


My Followup Message:
Thank you for such a prompt reply. Does the "FS" version of 0W-40 still comply with the old LL-01 standard? In other words am I safe using the new formulation with BMW N62TU Engine (550i 2010)?

And the reply:
Yes, since the new M1 FS 0W-40 did not lose any performance relative to the previous version, it will continue to provide similar (if not slightly improved) performance in your model.

I hope this helps someone.

I have sent another message asking about mixing old with new oil but they haven't replied yet. I am tempted to go to another Walmart and find the old 5qts jug as I still have about 6qts of old oil.

Last edited by tpaxadpom; 03-16-2016 at 07:29 PM.
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  #162  
Old 03-16-2016, 08:19 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post
I got tired of speculations and wrote a message to Mobil 1 tech support today. I am sharing this information but I deleted the contact of the person who reply for legal purposes.

My message:
I have a question about the European Formula Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 engine oil. I have noticed that recently the packaging has changed and LL01 certification was dropped. The name has changed as well to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. What is the difference between Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and Mobil 1 0W-40? What does FS stands for? Is there a difference in the chemestry between the two?

Reply:

Yes, we did recently introduce a new formulation, along with a new product name to differentiate the two. One assumes FS is just short for Full Synthetic. Performance of the new recipe is very comparable to the outgoing product.

At the same time, BMW had modified the testing requirement for the LL-01 spec adding of a more severe N20 2liter turbo test that, apparently, we do not yet meet.


My Followup Message:
Thank you for such a prompt reply. Does the "FS" version of 0W-40 still comply with the old LL-01 standard? In other words am I safe using the new formulation with BMW N62TU Engine (550i 2010)?

And the reply:
Yes, since the new M1 FS 0W-40 did not lose any performance relative to the previous version, it will continue to provide similar (if not slightly improved) performance in your model.

I hope this helps someone.

I have sent another message asking about mixing old with new oil but they haven't replied yet. I am tempted to go to another Walmart and find the old 5qts jug as I still have about 6qts of old oil.
You're being ridiculous.
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  #163  
Old 03-16-2016, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
You're being ridiculous.
Most definitely....give it a rest fer Chrissakes....
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  #164  
Old 03-16-2016, 10:17 PM
tpaxadpom tpaxadpom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
You're being ridiculous.
Olga your comments are simply priceless for bimmerfest community! I find it quite entertaining for a female (based on your avatar name) to spend so much time on the forum with the group of people (mostly man) that know so little about friction control.
***1055;***1080;***1096;***1080; ***1067;***1089;***1095;***1086;.
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  #165  
Old 03-16-2016, 11:34 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post
Olga your comments are simply priceless for bimmerfest community! I find it quite entertaining for a female (based on your avatar name) to spend so much time on the forum with the group of people (mostly man) that know so little about friction control.
***1055;***1080;***1096;***1080; ***1067;***1089;***1095;***1086;.
Studied tribology for 20 years. It's oil we are discussing, not Cold Fusion!!
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  #166  
Old 03-17-2016, 12:24 AM
tpaxadpom tpaxadpom is offline
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Originally Posted by OlgaMPM View Post
Studied tribology for 20 years. It's oil we are discussing, not Cold Fusion!!
You shouldn't be so hesitant and share some of that knowledge of yours or perhaps provide useful links to where this information can be gathered. Let's celebrate your achievements and go through hypothetical comparison of the oil of interest:

M1 FS 0w-40:
Approvals:
- API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
- MB 229.3, 229.5, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40

Specs:
@ 40C .................................................. .....................70.8
@ 100C............................................. .........................12.9
Viscosity Index............................................. .................186
MRV at -40C, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................21600
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, (ASTM D4683).......................3.6
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................12.6
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3 4
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1
Flash Point, C (ASTM D92).............................................. .226
Density @15C, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.8456


Old M1 0w-40:

Approvals:
- API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
- MB 229.3, 229.5, LL-01, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, Nissan GT-R

Specs:
@ 40C .................................................. .....................75
@ 100C............................................. .........................13.5
Viscosity Index............................................. .................185
MRV at -40C, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................31000
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, (ASTM D4683).......................3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1
Flash Point, C (ASTM D92).............................................. .230
Density @15C, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.85

What is the key change that upset you so much? I can pull up ASTM standards at work (not ready to pay $30 to get .pdf copies online/too lazy to search Chinese sites for free version) but as you probably know these standards are more about how to setup the experiement vs what the experiment is trying to prove and why. So it would be more helpful to hear the comments from the Expert versus speculating what a given parameter really means or reading Mobil 1 customer support replies.

Your turn
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  #167  
Old 03-17-2016, 01:36 AM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post
You shouldn't be so hesitant and share some of that knowledge of yours or perhaps provide useful links to where this information can be gathered. Let's celebrate your achievements and go through hypothetical comparison of the oil of interest:

M1 FS 0w-40:
Approvals:
- API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
- MB 229.3, 229.5, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40

Specs:
@ 40C .................................................. .....................70.8
@ 100C............................................. .........................12.9
Viscosity Index............................................. .................186
MRV at -40C, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................21600
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, (ASTM D4683).......................3.6
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................12.6
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3 4
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1
Flash Point, C (ASTM D92).............................................. .226
Density @15C, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.8456


Old M1 0w-40:

Approvals:
- API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
- MB 229.3, 229.5, LL-01, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, Nissan GT-R

Specs:
@ 40C .................................................. .....................75
@ 100C............................................. .........................13.5
Viscosity Index............................................. .................185
MRV at -40C, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................31000
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, (ASTM D4683).......................3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1
Flash Point, C (ASTM D92).............................................. .230
Density @15C, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.85

What is the key change that upset you so much? I can pull up ASTM standards at work (not ready to pay $30 to get .pdf copies online/too lazy to search Chinese sites for free version) but as you probably know these standards are more about how to setup the experiement vs what the experiment is trying to prove and why. So it would be more helpful to hear the comments from the Expert versus speculating what a given parameter really means or reading Mobil 1 customer support replies.

Your turn
Nothing upsets me it just a slightly thinner 0W40 with a return to the HTHS of previous version. Change to basestock but I'll be surprised if UOA's don't show improved performance (as occurred when they changed from
Tri-syn to Supersyn)
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  #168  
Old 03-17-2016, 08:04 AM
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Grubrunner Grubrunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Engine oil should have no expiration date if unopened.
I agree. It's the consensus I came to.

I had several email exchanges with the folks at Amsoil, Mobil 1, and Pennzoil a few years back on this very subject. I was helping build a sub-10 second street registered 1/4 miler.

They all agreed that while most manufacturers will put a 3-5 YR shelf life on unopened engine oil, it's ambient storage temperature is the most vital factor when it comes to longevity and usability. After that, it's the surrounding elements it's exposed to once opened.

Unopened and stored in temperatures between 50-80 degrees Fahrenheit [optimal], they're shelf life is [amost] unlimited.

One begs to ask: why would anyone have engine oil - opened or otherwise - stored for longer than 5YRS?

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  #169  
Old 03-27-2016, 12:52 AM
hans-groper hans-groper is offline
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Only the new formula at 3 local Walmarts I've checked.
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  #170  
Old 03-27-2016, 02:32 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans-groper View Post
Only the new formula at 3 local Walmarts I've checked.
Which is good as it's a better product
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  #171  
Old 07-11-2016, 08:27 PM
Greg220 Greg220 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post
I got tired of speculations and wrote a message to Mobil 1 tech support today. I am sharing this information but I deleted the contact of the person who reply for legal purposes.

My message:
I have a question about the European Formula Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 engine oil. I have noticed that recently the packaging has changed and LL01 certification was dropped. The name has changed as well to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. What is the difference between Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and Mobil 1 0W-40? What does FS stands for? Is there a difference in the chemestry between the two?

Reply:

Yes, we did recently introduce a new formulation, along with a new product name to differentiate the two. One assumes FS is just short for Full Synthetic. Performance of the new recipe is very comparable to the outgoing product.

At the same time, BMW had modified the testing requirement for the LL-01 spec adding of a more severe N20 2liter turbo test that, apparently, we do not yet meet.


My Followup Message:
Thank you for such a prompt reply. Does the "FS" version of 0W-40 still comply with the old LL-01 standard? In other words am I safe using the new formulation with BMW N62TU Engine (550i 2010)?

And the reply:
Yes, since the new M1 FS 0W-40 did not lose any performance relative to the previous version, it will continue to provide similar (if not slightly improved) performance in your model.

I hope this helps someone.

I have sent another message asking about mixing old with new oil but they haven't replied yet. I am tempted to go to another Walmart and find the old 5qts jug as I still have about 6qts of old oil.
That's excellent info, thanks for sharing! Have you heard back from them about the last question, i.e. mixing old and new oil? I have 3 qt left of the old Mobil 1.
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  #172  
Old 07-11-2016, 09:07 PM
OlgaMPM OlgaMPM is offline
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Location: UK
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post
You shouldn't be so hesitant and share some of that knowledge of yours or perhaps provide useful links to where this information can be gathered. Let's celebrate your achievements and go through hypothetical comparison of the oil of interest:

M1 FS 0w-40:
Approvals:
- API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
- MB 229.3, 229.5, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40

Specs:
@ 40C .................................................. .....................70.8
@ 100C............................................. .........................12.9
Viscosity Index............................................. .................186
MRV at -40C, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................21600
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, (ASTM D4683).......................3.6
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................12.6
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3 4
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1
Flash Point, C (ASTM D92).............................................. .226
Density @15C, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.8456


Old M1 0w-40:

Approvals:
- API SN, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
- MB 229.3, 229.5, LL-01, VW 502 00/505 00, Porsche A40, Nissan GT-R

Specs:
@ 40C .................................................. .....................75
@ 100C............................................. .........................13.5
Viscosity Index............................................. .................185
MRV at -40C, cP (ASTM D4684) .........................................31000
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150C, (ASTM D4683).......................3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896).......................................11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)..........................................1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981).........................................0.1
Flash Point, C (ASTM D92).............................................. .230
Density @15C, g/ml (ASTM D4052).....................................0.85

What is the key change that upset you so much? I can pull up ASTM standards at work (not ready to pay $30 to get .pdf copies online/too lazy to search Chinese sites for free version) but as you probably know these standards are more about how to setup the experiement vs what the experiment is trying to prove and why. So it would be more helpful to hear the comments from the Expert versus speculating what a given parameter really means or reading Mobil 1 customer support replies.

Your turn
FS version uses GTL basestock, performance will surpass old version
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