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BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 10-18-2019, 08:30 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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550i LCI project has me pulling my hair out

Hey guys, its been a minute since ive been back here but im over my head.
I just picked up an 08 550i with the sport trans. picked it up with a transmission not going being able to select a gear, but now I have done a deep dive and finding a lot more things. like the engine is lucking to be idling, starts up good, then it idles down and a little after that it goes to hell. engine barely stays running, I get misfires all over mostly 5,6,7,8, all at once. I have noticed it is when the valvtronic motors spin down it turns to crap. I have already pulled the valve cover and inspected the system and all I can see was the chain tensioner is very weak. I don't have timing tools to verify timing so I have no info for that yet.

could a weak tensioner cause this? or could it have slipped timing?

I have other issues I will be back for that later!

I am using maxisys pro for data and coding.

thanks guys
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2019, 02:14 AM
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ok..... so what are the codes...

stop touching stuff!
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:41 AM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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OK, so as requested, the codes:

as time goes on I will move to the idrive problems!
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Old 10-19-2019, 02:26 PM
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mis fireing on one bank ah?
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Old 10-22-2019, 03:57 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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ok so here is the latest. I put the VC back on after inspection, seems very clean, I pulled the vanos solenoids hoping to find the screen full of crud but barely anything. swapped the intake/exhaust locations on that head, calibrated valvetronic end-stops. started it up and waited for the warm up that usually led to the horrible running mis-fire nightmare. it never did, checked the cleared codes and had only 2A85 code (Outlet-VANOS variable cam control test) but I am unable to clear that. the engine seems much smoother, not perfect, and the throttle response seems sluggish from hitting the gas to when the engine actually revs. not sure if this has ever been lived through by someone but any info would be great,
oh and I will be ordering new solenoid orings and cleaning them, the vacuum pump orings and the valvetronic motor orings so maybe I can get the engine sealed up better.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:22 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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UPDATE:
so I got the transmission finished, had to replace the #4 solenoid, replace pan/filter and fluid, no trans faults and it shifts into gear normally. I replaced the valvetronic actuator seals both banks (learned end stops), replaced the vacuum pump seals and removed, cleaned and checked with 12 volts the vanos solenoids, and reinstalled with new O-rings. started it up the first time when servicing the transmission and seemed to have run great. had a little roughness to it but revved pretty good. later on I started the engine again to check the status of the active cruise control sensors and after idle down the engine missed like crazy! since I had the scanner in hand I checked and found the entire bank 2 was misfiring (5,6,7,8, plus the multiple misfire code and a 2A85-DME exhaust vanos activation). then as fast as it came it was gone and the codes cleared themselves. what can this be? could I have an intermittent cam pos sensor?
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2019, 06:47 AM
Rookiemistake Rookiemistake is offline
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did you ohm out your coils?
a misfire or two will make your
trans shift hard, buck, etc.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:56 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookiemistake View Post
did you ohm out your coils?
a misfire or two will make your
trans shift hard, buck, etc.
I did not ohm the coils but I have swapped them around and the problem did not follow. I am also going off of the unlikeliness of 4 different components to fail at the same time and then all be fine at the same time when it runs without the faults.
I have a chain tensioner, O2 sensor and cam sensor on the way. the chain slaps pretty hard on start up and feels weak, the O2 numbers seem pretty different between the two banks, correct me if I'm wrong but seems like after start up and idle down the DME switches to open loop and turns to garbage.

thanks again guys, any and all information helps
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:23 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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UPDATE:
I am closing in on these issues. I was on the right track with the change over between open and closed loop, I swapped out the O2 sensor on that bank and put a new chain tensioner in for that bank also. started up and the same misfire thing happened, then I pulled the scanner out and cleared the codes while running and BOOM, settled down smooth as glass. has a little ticking going on that bank near the timing chain so I can only assume the slop and 175K miles has the chain less than perfect. revved awesome!!, I was so excited!! BUT THEN,..... I turned the car off to do some things and came back to start it and right back to the rough idle, scanner said the same misfires and once cleared, smooth as glass again.

what can be happening on warm start up to have that bank knock enough for the DME to cut off those injectors? I'm surely not going to drive this thing around with a scanner to clear codes all the time!!
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:30 PM
audiophool audiophool is offline
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Can you clear the rough running by restarting the car? I had a bad injector (leaky) and once it started rough running it would not self-clear, but would be OK after shutting off and immediately restarting. How did the spark plugs look?
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Old 11-09-2019, 02:23 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophool View Post
Can you clear the rough running by restarting the car? I had a bad injector (leaky) and once it started rough running it would not self-clear, but would be OK after shutting off and immediately restarting. How did the spark plugs look?
the car misfires and run like garbage, while its running I can clear all those misfire codes with the scanner and I smooths out. a shut down and immediate restart nets the same thing, flashing MIL light and same misfires on the bank 2 ( 5,6,7,8 cyl). clear it with a scanner and back to being smooth again. plugs are all new and the coils have been swapped to the other side and didn't follow.

I also checked out the smooth running values and bank 2 stayed all negative .35 to .58 while the bank 1 stayed positive .39-.46

I decided to change the minimum valve lift from the valvetronic system from .3 to .8 mm to see if the system has some wear and if it gets better, and it did. the rev is not as smooth, but pulls through it and the smooth running values are a lot better. (sideways pic is min lift of .8mm)

if I don't end up with a smoking gun soon I may end up getting rid of this rag even after I got all the other things fixed, without a smooth running engine is all for nothing.
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Last edited by spoonsc1; 11-09-2019 at 02:31 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 11-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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shift your attention to the timing part of the ignition

your problem is not coils, its not plugs,

its timing

the reason you know its timng.. is because you have cut off.. so the Dme can see

but you have a timing issue that is realated to temperature?

what tells the temp,
who needs to know what temp they are at?

you need to think like the computer

I like to run fuel pressure test when i have unknown ignition issues *everything you have done so far should have taken about 45 min if your going to sell this job (*back to the service writer)

your 2a85 code is the cam sensor screaming @ you


if you made a video people would hear it and say...
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:18 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Burning2nd
Thank you for your involvement with my post, I have seen your advice on many others and I was hoping you would show up with a one word solution!! that first code of 2A85 has never showed up again since that one time I have posted it, so to be fair its not screaming much anymore so I assumed it was a nuisance code since it never returned. I to have been thinking about the timing, however I was trying to cover absolutely every base before I start purchasing super expensive one time use tools, expensive timing chain kit just to find out it is something else and would have been cheaper and faster to buy another motor and swap it out.

so as of now, before I up'd the minimum lift to get more data, on start up, at the idle down it starts to miss, engine light flashing and barely idles. codes are: mult misfires, almost always 6,7,8 cyl misfire, sometimes all four of that bank, as soon as the codes clear the engine straightens up. and if I shut down and start back up immediately, same thing, rough, light cleans up after clearing the code. now since the min valve lift has been increased I can start without codes, just not as smooth of a rev.

As far as the temperature related talk, im not sure what you are referring that to. a cold engine or warm engine on start up yields the same misfire.

I guess I have to make a decision on timing tools and chain/guides, or something else

thanks again
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:49 AM
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No im not saying timing like timing chain,

Im saying timing like electronic ignition
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:38 AM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
No im not saying timing like timing chain,

Im saying timing like electronic ignition
Ooooooooooooh.
I guess I will need to look into that, never considered that. I guess I will start researching that and what can be done concerning the electronic ignition.

I guess since the DME dictates through spark maps it can only be sensor error.....sound right?

thanks again
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Last edited by spoonsc1; 11-10-2019 at 07:19 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:45 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Just to clarify I misspoke about the changed min valve lift not causing the misfire on start up, its the same. started today and just a minute into it, it pulled the same misfires on bank 2.
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Old 11-10-2019, 02:35 PM
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a misfire on a bank is a indication that the dme or computer is having problems with timing...

cam or crank angle
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Old 11-10-2019, 05:24 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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i will pay more attention to it but I don't remember seeing any crazy indication on the scanner, and started leaning toward the timing chain slop and possibly worn or broken guide. I do have a new cam sensor to install if need be, maybe I will look at the other crank sensor as well.

thank you
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:28 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Hey guys, little update while waiting for crank sensor to get here.

I double checked fuel pressure at the rail and it was a solid 50 psi, I installed a new cam sensor in the bank 2 side exhaust, ran it and kept moving sensor with no change. I did check a few more things on the scanner and noticed the spark advance was showing over 186 degrees! sometime over 190. I hope the crank sensor fixes everything, because this particular car is testing me. after clearing codes it seems to settle in a more normal advance 10-15 at idle. graphs still show a spike once in a while, but im crossing my fingers
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:43 PM
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the next step is wave forum viewing... at that point i cant help you over the internet
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:37 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
the next step is wave forum viewing... at that point i cant help you over the internet
I understand and I am not equipped with a scope to do so, but thank you for your time, and let me know when you will be in SC!!


thanks everybody, if I stubble across a repair I will let you know
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Old 11-16-2019, 08:42 AM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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For those still interested and watching this post,
today while waiting for parts to get here I decided to try something for troubleshooting purposes.
before starting the car for the first time today, I disconnected the valvetronic servos, manually ran them to full lift, 9.6 verified by the scanner and started the engine.
the engine started up, stumbled a second until it figured out it had no control of the valvetronic system and idles pretty good. revs with a small stutter with a quick snap of the throttle but revs smooth after.
only codes are the 2 servos disconnected, no misfires like before

not sure what this tells me but.....its something
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:36 AM
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What this is saying is how the programing is responding to the timing.....

honestly i think you have pressed to many buttens.. and flipped to many switches...

right now its hard for me to even follow what has been done..

a clear start, with proper code clearing, proper data retention, and proper live data.. Is what is needed...

i have faith in you though, you have the info.. your just struggling to put it all together,
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:00 PM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
What this is saying is how the programing is responding to the timing.....

honestly i think you have pressed to many buttens.. and flipped to many switches...

right now its hard for me to even follow what has been done..

a clear start, with proper code clearing, proper data retention, and proper live data.. Is what is needed...

i have faith in you though, you have the info.. your just struggling to put it all together,
Again I appreciate all the help I have gotten from everyone here, as far as just mashing buttons and flipping switches I have not made any changes or thrown parts at the vehicle. I believe I methodically NDI'd (non destructive inspection) the problem areas. I started with an unkown condition of an engine, pulled the codes on start up, led me to misfires, and knowing before I posted anything that everyone is rock hard about batteries, coils and plugs so I inspected the plugs, replaced and relocated coils and documented locations. that was the first logical step, problem remained.
inspected eccentric cam and timing change due to slap heard and found a weak tensioner, which was replaced and repaired the slap. original misfires 5,6,7,8 remain. noticed the O2 sensor on bank two not with in limits and replaced which did clean up the roughness and indicates correctly.
going off of suggestions for timing I payed more attention to cam and crank sensors, found all data seemed normal I picked up a sensor to allow troubleshooting which has netted no faults found.
bumped the min valve lift up to check for the possibility of wear, netted no positive results and back again to original settings.
just today I disconnected valvetronic to and ran them to max lift and all problems seem to be gone. I believe this is all good data, maybe I could have saved a few dollars if I would have noticed something on a scanner before I bought anything but now I have spares and a good piece of mind that it has been checked.

I guess now I need to figure out what data I need to observe and what systems are included to control the valvetronic system. and what is out of spec. I can only assume is I am still finding no erroneous indications, the valvetronic control module may be faulting if all indications are good.

I appreciated everything I can get off this site, as an aircraft mechanic/troubleshooter, car guy and only dealt with M54's valvetronic system is new to me, but I feel im am totally green at all this, just learning more stuff
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Old Yesterday, 10:07 AM
spoonsc1 spoonsc1 is offline
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For the guys following this post.
after more and more research I decided to disconnect the VANOS solenoids as other have in the past to disable the valvetronic system and set the VANOS cams to a null position.
well this thing is smooth as glass, started great no hicups, idles smooth and runs great.

looks like since the problems were only bank 2 side, I can only assume this is indication eccentric cam or lever wear, or VANOS cam gear issue.

I believe I will just stare at the check engine light and drive until its engine change time.

thanks for all who posted, I was able to rebuild the drivers seat, troubleshoot and fix the idrive controller and navigation issues, repair the transmission valve body solenoid all while trying to figure this engine out. thanks everyone!
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