Need Help with First X3 Buying - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 G01 (2018 - current)

X3 G01 (2018 - current)
The third generation X3 starts production in August of 2017 and will include the new X3 M40i top of the line performance model.

View Poll Results: Is BMW X3 a good car to own?
buy 15 65.22%
lease 6 26.09%
get another car 2 8.70%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-21-2019, 12:25 AM
T2020 T2020 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 8
Mein Auto:
Need Help with First X3 Buying

Hi All,

I'm a newbie here. I don't own a BMW yet but looking for a new X3 AWD. I live in bay area, CA. I have test driven the car and loved it. So, visited few dealerships and got some offers. since this is my first time getting a BMW, I'm not sure if the deals are great or I should expect better. It would be very helpful to get some guidance.

Here is my situation,

1. The best offer I got so far is ~9% off MSRP (for a car already in the lot) and 2.99% financing for 60 months - is it a good deal or I can get better year end deals?
2. It seems only 4 scheduled maintenance (up to 50k/4 year, 10K miles apart) is included for free - doesn't BMW cover bumper-to-bumper maintenance? So, any unscheduled visits (for any issue) would be covered too or I need to pay extra?
3. I have excellent credit, can I expect a better financing rate from BMW or is it better to get it from outside and pay dealer cash?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:06 AM
xx xx is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bimmerland, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,202
Mein Auto: F15 X5 and G01 X3
Just contact the Weatherford/Berkeley internet sales folks and see what they can do. My two current ones are from there.
Item 2 should be 3 year 36k miles, limited (also fewer items covered compared to several years ago). Brakes and wiper blades are not included any more.
Best wishes there!
__________________
X3 E83 (sold) | X5 E70 (sold) | X3 F25 (sold) | X5 F15 | X3 G01
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:43 AM
scootr scootr is offline
Registered User
Location: Temecula CA
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2010 E89 3.0 Stick shift
It sounds like you are doing comparison shopping so you won't end up paying too much. Especially good tactic I use is when you finally pic a dealer to buy your new car from tell the salesman you have been visiting the other dealers and all the prices are about the same. Tell him you are looking for somebody who can beat the other guys price. Financing 2.9 % sounds good, call your bank and ask what they can offer. Last time I checked was 3.25 or so for excellent credit. But holidays bring loan rate specials. Ask.
I'm shopping the same car now. I see slightly used 2019s with low miles for a lot less money.
Dealers use this car for courtesy car for a year and sell. I see some good deals out there. Good luck and let us know what you get.
__________________

2010 E89 3.0 Stick Shift
Space Gray Metallic
Bilstein & Sachs suspension
Michelin Pilot 4s NRF
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:58 PM
DTRJ DTRJ is offline
Registered User since 07
Location: EAST COAST, USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 299
Mein Auto: 2020 X4 M40I COMING SOON
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2020 View Post
Hi All,

I'm a newbie here. I don't own a BMW yet but looking for a new X3 AWD. I live in bay area, CA. I have test driven the car and loved it. So, visited few dealerships and got some offers. since this is my first time getting a BMW, I'm not sure if the deals are great or I should expect better. It would be very helpful to get some guidance.

Here is my situation,

1. The best offer I got so far is ~9% off MSRP (for a car already in the lot) and 2.99% financing for 60 months - is it a good deal or I can get better year end deals?
2. It seems only 4 scheduled maintenance (up to 50k/4 year, 10K miles apart) is included for free - doesn't BMW cover bumper-to-bumper maintenance? So, any unscheduled visits (for any issue) would be covered too or I need to pay extra?
3. I have excellent credit, can I expect a better financing rate from BMW or is it better to get it from outside and pay dealer cash?
I think you may be confusing maintenance with warranty. All new BMWs come with 3 years 36000 miles free basic scheduled maintenance. This includes oil and filters, cabin and air filters, remote batteries, brake fluid flush. The basic BMW warranty is 4 years or 50000 miles. This includes almost anything from bumper to bumper that does not operate properly. any part that has failed and roadside service. Their are some limited exclusions but they are few. Hope this clears it up for you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:41 PM
T2020 T2020 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 8
Mein Auto:
I see, that clarifies it a lot . The dealer didn't explain this simply.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:58 PM
scootr scootr is offline
Registered User
Location: Temecula CA
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2010 E89 3.0 Stick shift
Quote:
Originally Posted by T2020 View Post
I see, that clarifies it a lot . The dealer didn't explain this simply.
They never do. Their eyes glaze over when you walk in and they are more interested in getting you to tell them about your kids while they take your money than explaining what you will or will not be getting.

Smart move to do some more research


Remember you're not car shopping hard enough until they let you walk out of a dealer
__________________

2010 E89 3.0 Stick Shift
Space Gray Metallic
Bilstein & Sachs suspension
Michelin Pilot 4s NRF

Last edited by scootr; 10-21-2019 at 05:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-21-2019, 07:29 PM
AlteBMW's Avatar
AlteBMW AlteBMW is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New York area
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,393
Mein Auto: 2017 750ix 2019 X3 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootr View Post
I see slightly used 2019s with low miles for a lot less money.
Dealers use this car for courtesy car for a year and sell. I see some good deals out there. Good luck and let us know what you get.
I bought a '19 in August with less than 1500 miles on it. Had been put in service earlier in the year, and has balance of new car warranty. Good deal. If I am remembering right it was about 15% off and 2.49% financing.
__________________
BMWCCA since '88
==============
'20 750i xdrive. Azurite, Cognac,
'19 G01 X3 30
Other: '14 MB E350 wagon
Past: 3, 5 (E39, F31 and F10), 7 & 8 series (twice!) BMW, C, E and S MBenzes, Alfa Romeo GTV, MGB, Toyota Celica, Lincoln, Saab, Volvo, Audi A6, A4, and others (yes I am old )
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:05 PM
scootr scootr is offline
Registered User
Location: Temecula CA
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 76
Mein Auto: 2010 E89 3.0 Stick shift
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlteBMW View Post
I bought a '19 in August with less than 1500 miles on it. Had been put in service earlier in the year, and has balance of new car warranty. Good deal. If I am remembering right it was about 15% off and 2.49% financing.
That's a good deal right there
__________________

2010 E89 3.0 Stick Shift
Space Gray Metallic
Bilstein & Sachs suspension
Michelin Pilot 4s NRF
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:17 PM
Jen4BMW's Avatar
Jen4BMW Jen4BMW is offline
Jen4BMW
Location: St. Paul, MN
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 137
Mein Auto: 2019 xDrive X3 30i
I did mine the same way as AlteBMW. Bought a 2019 G01 service loaner with 4200 miles on it for 16% off MSRP including BMW discounts. I thought the price was pretty fair but they hosed me on the money factor which still annoys me. The previous poster is right. The sales and finance people are the masters of distraction when you start moving into negotiation mode and I am in sales. Go figure.
__________________
Current:
2019 X3 xDrive30i

Former:
2013 X3 xDrive35i Msport
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:00 PM
Stansx5 Stansx5 is offline
Registered User
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 77
Mein Auto: M550i rhodonite silver,
Real deal

I donít know what the other people are talking about. There are incentives. Either 1500 or 2500 for financing, 750 conquest or if you have a bmw 1500 plus you should get 6-6.5% discount. Loan at 2.99 is excellent. You can pay it off any time with no penalties. Donít take any other offers and refuse dealer fees. They have to show it on sales invoice but they can take it off the top
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-22-2019, 08:52 PM
T2020 T2020 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 8
Mein Auto:
Thanks for all the good info everyone. I got a great deal from Mountain view BMW. I feel this one would be tough to beat.

It's a loaded 2020 X3 (luxury trim, premium package, driver's assistance pkg, Driver's assistance plus pkg, navigation, 19 inch wheel), and I'm getting 15.5% off MSRP. Although to avail it I need to go with dealer financing and the rate would be 3.99 (they explained that they need to recover some money for this deep discount, so they cant offer 2.99). I have checked with a few credit union and looks like outside the rate would be ~3%, also I would lose the financing rebate ($2250). So, it seems going with the dealer is the best option.

Please let me know if you see any issues with this offer.

I have showed another dealer this offer and waiting for a counter offer.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-23-2019, 12:17 AM
KevinMR KevinMR is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 196
Mein Auto: 2015 535i
That's an ok deal based on my past experience. You can always pay off the loan early.

I would email Greg at Pacific BMW down in SoCal just for a price check. See the "Ask a Dealer" section here for his info.
__________________
2018 X3 xDrive30i

Former BMWs in the garage:
2015 535i
2008 535i
2003 M5
1998 325
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-23-2019, 01:01 AM
xx xx is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bimmerland, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,202
Mein Auto: F15 X5 and G01 X3
That 3.99% is not acceptable if you qualify for 2.95% or 3%. This interest rate is based on your credit life and not their ability to get back some money from you. That 1% difference will be equivalent to maybe 2 or 3% of the msrp or maybe 10% of the discounts they were initially offering (too big to ignore, should get it back to 3% or use another dealer that doesn't try to do this).
__________________
X3 E83 (sold) | X5 E70 (sold) | X3 F25 (sold) | X5 F15 | X3 G01
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-23-2019, 07:41 AM
Jen4BMW's Avatar
Jen4BMW Jen4BMW is offline
Jen4BMW
Location: St. Paul, MN
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 137
Mein Auto: 2019 xDrive X3 30i
I agree with XX. Consider how swanky most BMW dealerships are. They're making big money on the vast majority of sales plus there's the constant revenue stream from the service dept. It's easy to get swept up in all the glitz.

My point is, I wouldn't fall for their BS about needing a higher margin on the financing, to offset money lost on the car. I was given the exact same line on my 2019 GO1 I leased 4 mo's ago. I can almost guarantee you this is trick #1 they teach their sales people. It's easy to fall for.

With all this said there's no way the BMW Motorwerks in Minnesota would let a 2020 G01 go for 15.5% off MSRP with skinny financing. OP, I think your close to getting a great deal. Hold firm on the interest rate and your golden.
__________________
Current:
2019 X3 xDrive30i

Former:
2013 X3 xDrive35i Msport
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-23-2019, 11:46 AM
xx xx is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bimmerland, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,202
Mein Auto: F15 X5 and G01 X3
Yeah, maybe say/write back to that Mountain View store and say "For a 10-star all good review for you and your entire team,.... not even a tiny problem or issue... how about getting me that 2.99% shown on the BMW USA website or even lower like 1.9 or 0.9... and then we have a deal?" (exchange favors lol). Many years ago a dealer mentioned a number and then I asked how come everyone else getting that 0.9x% shown on the BMW USA website. They went something like oh... didn't know and then quickly gave me that rate. Sometimes they really don't remember/know or didn't check when there are several different numbers for different models posted.

Also ask for 2 free polo shirts, a backpack, etc BMW toys... sometimes may be lucky to get a few, but since you're getting 15.5% off msrp, you're probably not getting anything other than hearing them whine or compliment that you got the 3rd best deal in the last 3 years at this dealer lol. My sister got that from a different dealer/make, not sure if that dealer was telling me the truth but it was a great deal and sounded good to hear (exchanged favors and gave them a 10 star review lol)
__________________
X3 E83 (sold) | X5 E70 (sold) | X3 F25 (sold) | X5 F15 | X3 G01
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-23-2019, 11:53 AM
Stansx5 Stansx5 is offline
Registered User
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 77
Mein Auto: M550i rhodonite silver,
Your lost

Find someone who can use a calculator.. add the incentives you can find on edmunds and bmw web site. Add 6.5% of MSRP. COMPARE THE TOTAL TO YOUR DISCOUNT. ALSO HE LYING ABOUT THE 3.99%
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-23-2019, 10:55 PM
T2020 T2020 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 8
Mein Auto:
Thanks everyone for the great inputs.

I got a bit emboldened with the advice and shot a mail to the dealer saying, 3.99% is too much for me to swallow given my excellent credit history. I said, so I'm talking to another dealer who is willing to match the price and give me a rate of 2.99% (I lied). Then i rang up my bank and surprisingly they promptly agreed on 2.84% rate. Later in the day i dropped a note to another dealer (I took the test drive with them) with the offer details and asked if they can do better. They agreed to match the discount and gave me 2.99% rate. Later on they agreed to match bank loan rate. The good thing is that the 2nd dealership is under the same parent dealer as the 1st one, so if needed, they can get me the car from the 1st one :-).

So, right now here i am - 15.5% off msrp and 2.84% loan rate. Please let me know if anything else I should press for.

Now I have a different question. I have two cars short listed (one each from 1st & 2nd dealer) - same configuration. One with black interior, one beige. The 2nd dealer told me that beige interior is difficult to maintain. Apparently they sometime get stain from even denims! So, I should stick to black (their car has black interior). I think I like the beige interior more. Any inputs from your experience on light color SensaTec? Are they really bad? Also, 19" wheel or 18" - which one should I go for ?

Last edited by T2020; 10-24-2019 at 12:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-24-2019, 01:30 AM
xx xx is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bimmerland, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,202
Mein Auto: F15 X5 and G01 X3
That's a great update/news on the interest rate! It might go even lower a little after the Oct 30 or Dec 11 federal reserve meeting (no guarantees it will drop but the market is counting on it lol). Either way just buy now since that quarter percent doesn't make a difference.

I would pick the larger rim between the two just for the looks. The 18 will show too much black rubber height.

Regarding the interior color, that stain issue would be true. At one time had a light beige (called oyster) leather and it sure looks so lovely and luxurious, and almost has a british car flavor. But it does get stained by blue jeans. Lately the blue jeans trend happens to be the dark-dark blue type and not the medium blue which means even easier to get it stained. Every time I take it to the car wash, the service writer person automatically asks if I wanted to do a seat cleaning/conditioning (turns out we have to do that twice or 3 times a year). They can get it out easily since that's what they do all day. But yeah the light color interior is always beautiful and that'll tickle you every time you walk up to the car lol
__________________
X3 E83 (sold) | X5 E70 (sold) | X3 F25 (sold) | X5 F15 | X3 G01

Last edited by xx; 10-24-2019 at 01:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-25-2019, 11:53 AM
mtbrdad mtbrdad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Elmhurst, IL
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 743
Mein Auto: 2018 X3 M40i
run flats suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by T2020 View Post
Thanks everyone for the great inputs.

I got a bit emboldened with the advice and shot a mail to the dealer saying, 3.99% is too much for me to swallow given my excellent credit history. I said, so I'm talking to another dealer who is willing to match the price and give me a rate of 2.99% (I lied). Then i rang up my bank and surprisingly they promptly agreed on 2.84% rate. Later in the day i dropped a note to another dealer (I took the test drive with them) with the offer details and asked if they can do better. They agreed to match the discount and gave me 2.99% rate. Later on they agreed to match bank loan rate. The good thing is that the 2nd dealership is under the same parent dealer as the 1st one, so if needed, they can get me the car from the 1st one :-).

So, right now here i am - 15.5% off msrp and 2.84% loan rate. Please let me know if anything else I should press for.

Now I have a different question. I have two cars short listed (one each from 1st & 2nd dealer) - same configuration. One with black interior, one beige. The 2nd dealer told me that beige interior is difficult to maintain. Apparently they sometime get stain from even denims! So, I should stick to black (their car has black interior). I think I like the beige interior more. Any inputs from your experience on light color SensaTec? Are they really bad? Also, 19" wheel or 18" - which one should I go for ?
Get the non-run-flat tire option, the run-flats absolutely suck! If you like feeling every bump in the road because of the run-flats stiffer sidewall sure then get them. If you're buying off the lot request the dealer to swap the tires for non-runflats before you sign anything, you might get a deal.
__________________
Current Vehicles
2019 Audi Q7 3.0
2018 X3 M40i
2008 Saturn Astra XR Manual
2007 X3 3.0si
1997 Kaswasaki Concours
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-25-2019, 01:25 PM
AlteBMW's Avatar
AlteBMW AlteBMW is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New York area
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,393
Mein Auto: 2017 750ix 2019 X3 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbrdad View Post
Get the non-run-flat tire option, the run-flats absolutely suck! If you like feeling every bump in the road because of the run-flats stiffer sidewall sure then get them. If you're buying off the lot request the dealer to swap the tires for non-runflats before you sign anything, you might get a deal.
X3 M40 may have relatively harsh ride. I have X3 30 and run flats and the ride is surprisingly comfortable. I test drove a X5 and ride was much harsher. I have found dealers reluctant to switch tires. Also many seem to overinflate on delivery. Good idea to check and adjust to specs.
__________________
BMWCCA since '88
==============
'20 750i xdrive. Azurite, Cognac,
'19 G01 X3 30
Other: '14 MB E350 wagon
Past: 3, 5 (E39, F31 and F10), 7 & 8 series (twice!) BMW, C, E and S MBenzes, Alfa Romeo GTV, MGB, Toyota Celica, Lincoln, Saab, Volvo, Audi A6, A4, and others (yes I am old )
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-25-2019, 02:36 PM
mtbrdad mtbrdad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Elmhurst, IL
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 743
Mein Auto: 2018 X3 M40i
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlteBMW View Post
X3 M40 may have relatively harsh ride. I have X3 30 and run flats and the ride is surprisingly comfortable. I test drove a X5 and ride was much harsher. I have found dealers reluctant to switch tires. Also many seem to overinflate on delivery. Good idea to check and adjust to specs.
What is your tire size and ratio, normally a higher ratio tire does give a smoother ride.

I did all the checking and adjusting on my own, I'm an ME so I'm anal about that stuff. I'm working on switching to non-runflats and want to get the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ but my local Costco dealer will not install non-runflats on a car without a spare and equipment to change, so I'm working on that.
__________________
Current Vehicles
2019 Audi Q7 3.0
2018 X3 M40i
2008 Saturn Astra XR Manual
2007 X3 3.0si
1997 Kaswasaki Concours
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-25-2019, 02:43 PM
AlteBMW's Avatar
AlteBMW AlteBMW is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New York area
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,393
Mein Auto: 2017 750ix 2019 X3 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbrdad View Post
What is your tire size and ratio, normally a higher ratio tire does give a smoother ride.

I did all the checking and adjusting on my own, I'm an ME so I'm anal about that stuff. I'm working on switching to non-runflats and want to get the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ but my local Costco dealer will not install non-runflats on a car without a spare and equipment to change, so I'm working on that.
Tires are 245/50 on 19" wheels.
__________________
BMWCCA since '88
==============
'20 750i xdrive. Azurite, Cognac,
'19 G01 X3 30
Other: '14 MB E350 wagon
Past: 3, 5 (E39, F31 and F10), 7 & 8 series (twice!) BMW, C, E and S MBenzes, Alfa Romeo GTV, MGB, Toyota Celica, Lincoln, Saab, Volvo, Audi A6, A4, and others (yes I am old )
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-25-2019, 06:46 PM
Ziggy328xi Ziggy328xi is offline
Ziggy.
Location: Boston MA
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 371
Mein Auto: 11 328xi N51
As a bmw tech ill provide some imput on the other end of things. Yes the tan/white/light colored interiors are meh, they soak up the ink from denim and we get a ton of complaints about it. also dont expect tires to last more than 20-30k miles. these new x3's eat tires. we have also had a bunch of issues with check engine lights on x3's at least early production ones in regards to radiator blinds- not a huge deal as i think they got most of the bugs worked out and extended the warrenty until 10/120k. the car comes with a 3/36 maintence and 4/50 factory warrenty. unlike previous years (ended in 16 i think) the 3/36 does not cover wipers and brakes but you can buy an upgraded maintence package that does for 4/50 or like 7/70 or up to 100k i think. the brakes seem decent on the x3s so im not sure you would get a free set if u only get the 4/50 plan. other than that they are decent cars all things considered.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-29-2019, 05:54 PM
Kamdog's Avatar
Kamdog Kamdog is offline
<- Bailey
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,655
Mein Auto: 2019 RDX
Denim is easy to clean off if you stay on it. Get leather wipes from Meguires or some other reputable place, and wipe the seats down every couple of months.

We always go with light interiors, and have had no problems.
__________________

Retired - 535i, Monaco, Cream, Light Poplar, ED.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-30-2019, 02:51 AM
Clivem2 Clivem2 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: UK - Cheshire
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 163
Mein Auto: F25 35D MSport
I mostly just use a damp microfibre cloth to wipe of denim transfer, it comes of really easily - whether it would if left for 6 months I can't say. The issue is not the leather, it's the denim. We have a couple of sofas which suffer, one is white, the other is light green. Denim transfer can be removed from our sofas with a dry towel and rubbing, it transfers to the towel.

I've seen so many people seeming to blame the leather for denim transfer....you can be use the issue is with the denim. We might as well complain about the car not moving when there's no fuel in it - get the cause an effect right!
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories

Tags
bmw, bmw x series, california, san francisco bay area, x3


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 G01 (2018 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.