7/70,000K timing chain warranty. - Page 2 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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  #26  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:20 AM
nran29 nran29 is offline
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What are the chances they re-call the affected models and just replace the parts?
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  #27  
Old 12-26-2017, 10:56 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by nran29 View Post
What are the chances they re-call the affected models and just replace the parts?
My guess is based on projected costs to BMWNA.

E.g, TC job without engine damage is $2000(e.g.), while new engine is $20000(e.g.), so the cost difference is 10x.

My rough guesstimate is that the failure % has passed 1% of total affected unit shipped in US, say, 1500 out of 150k units covered by 7-yr/70k-mile. When that % creeps up quickly to 2%(and it is heading that way), BMWNA will issue a recall.

The rationale behind the above guesstimate is that, if all 1% requires new engine, BMWNA has already paid 10% of costs to recall all 150k cars. 2% will imply 20%.

A recall of all affected units will cost $300m.

If there is a pending lawsuit that can cost $150m(e.g.), BMWNA probably will issue recall before hitting 2% failure rate.
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  #28  
Old 12-26-2017, 03:59 PM
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A recall would affect all cars regardless of mileage. Warranty only covers 70k.
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  #29  
Old 12-26-2017, 04:32 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
A recall would affect all cars regardless of mileage. Warranty only covers 70k.
That is true, so should owners dump before hitting 70k?
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2017, 04:46 PM
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That would be my advice unless they:
A. Have an extended warranty
B. Have a lot of money and in love with the car
C. Have a sharp attorney that they can use to go after bmw
D. Have better luck than I do
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  #31  
Old 12-26-2017, 04:48 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
That would be my advice unless they:
A. Have an extended warranty
B. Have a lot of money and in love with the car
C. Have a sharp attorney that they can use to go after bmw
D. Have better luck than I do
Is your car having TC issue?

BMW ESC is at best 7-yr/100k-mile, and aftermarket ESCs have aggregate caps that won't pay for new engines ....

Last edited by namelessman; 12-26-2017 at 04:49 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-26-2017, 04:53 PM
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No it's not, but if I didn't have the extended warranty then it would!

I'm going for service tomorrow so hopefully they will do a thorough check for that issue.

Last edited by mr_clueless; 12-26-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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  #33  
Old 12-26-2017, 05:02 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
No it's not, but if I didn't have the extended warranty then it would!

I'm going for service tomorrow so hopefully they will do a thorough check for that issue.
Actually BMW ESCs also have aggregate cap, so if you car does need new engine for $20k(e.g.), and your car is worth $15k, the payout will be capped at $15k.

Only ELWs and new car warranty have no cap(but BMWNA can buyback).
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  #34  
Old 12-26-2017, 05:23 PM
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The cap does scare me. I don't think my car will be worth more than $10k by the time it gets to 90k.
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  #35  
Old 12-26-2017, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
The cap does scare me. I don't think my car will be worth more than $10k by the time it gets to 90k.
The cap is aggregate, e.g. a previous repair for $2k(paid by the ESC) can further reduce the current payout to max out at FMV minus $2k.

The aggregate cap is the worst clause on any ESC and is seldom discussed on enthusiast forums.
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  #36  
Old 12-26-2017, 06:10 PM
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My guess is that BMW would probably make an exception for the case of a known issue like damage due to the timing chain. Of course, one won't know until it actually happens.
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  #37  
Old 12-26-2017, 07:14 PM
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It is unclear how this will play out. E.g. UK had big issues with N47 diesel TC, and in that car the TC is at the rear and requires engine-out. :[ . Most UK owners pay out of pockets to rebuild engines.

Will BMWNA do things differently in US?
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  #38  
Old 12-27-2017, 04:32 PM
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SA says he hasn't seen a single one of these failures until now. So maybe it is not affecting that many cars.
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  #39  
Old 12-27-2017, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
SA says he hasn't seen a single one of these failures until now. So maybe it is not affecting that many cars.
The reported failures on forums are mainly X and 5-series, and 3-series xDrive, so maybe the loads can also be contributing factors.

If true, then for sure factory spec 320i N20 is the least susceptible to this issue.
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  #40  
Old 12-27-2017, 06:55 PM
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Checked my 2014 F31 today and it sounded okay. But I wonít be keeping it past the 7 years unless BMW does a recall. Iím picking up an X3 M40i in three weeks and I plan on talking with them about the N20 and TC issues.


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  #41  
Old 12-27-2017, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by calbbs View Post
Checked my 2014 F31 today and it sounded okay. But I wonít be keeping it past the 7 years unless BMW does a recall. Iím picking up an X3 M40i in three weeks and I plan on talking with them about the N20 and TC issues.


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The B46 and B58 have different TC design, which is now next to the firewall! :[

Having said that B46 TC(either lower or upper) are covered by PZEV warranty as emission parts.
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  #42  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis03 View Post
I DO NOT know if this is true, but read elsewhere that a class action lawsuit has recently been initiated against BMW for this N20 timing chain issue. I have read in horror, where some of these timing chain issues created a total engine loss and the cost to replace the engine was anywhere between $14K and $28K. For some of the older model year cars that cost was more than the value of the entire car and the car was simply scrapped. Yikes! I really hope the replacement B48 engine that is now in BMW's does not develop problems.
sounds like any HONDA out there, lol
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  #43  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:43 AM
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Just had an oil change and they did a vehicle inspection. Everything is good so far. 35.5k on a 2014 328i. Cpo w/extended warranty.

Funny thing too, I bought it used and it's almost 3 years old. Since it's anniversary date is Jan 2 2015 I got a free oil change. And I had no clue I was that close to it expiring as I had no clue I had a 3 year maintenance plan . I came in expecting to pay a hundred or more dollars and left owing nothing!


On a side note. They hand washed the car and left 9 vertical scratches of at lease 4 inches long.
I caught it before I even got into my car. 4 hours if repair work needed.

I need to make a no wash sign for my car.

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  #44  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:52 AM
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I need to just stop thinking about this issue because at this point there is really nothing I can do other than be aware of any weird engine noises. Otherwise obsessing over it will drive me nuts.
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  #45  
Old 12-28-2017, 12:35 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
I need to just stop thinking about this issue because at this point there is really nothing I can do other than be aware of any weird engine noises. Otherwise obsessing over it will drive me nuts.
Sounds like a good plan.

Another point to note is that, most reported failures on forums are X-series and maybe 5-series too, and 3-series with xDrive. So one interpretation of that set of data points(assuming even distribution) is that load can be a factor.

So my approach right now is not to push upon cold start, and only push after oil temp needle has moved half-way to 250C.
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  #46  
Old 12-28-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
There was a similar issue with N47(diesel), and that engine's timing chain is at the back:





Thanks for sharing


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  #47  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Sounds like a good plan.



Another point to note is that, most reported failures on forums are X-series and maybe 5-series too, and 3-series with xDrive. So one interpretation of that set of data points(assuming even distribution) is that load can be a factor.



So my approach right now is not to push upon cold start, and only push after oil temp needle has moved half-way to 250C.


I also wonder if waiting for longer periods of time to do an oil change also contributes to these problems


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  #48  
Old 12-28-2017, 03:08 PM
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I have done some digging and found that chains do not stretch, Each link has a couple of pins that connect both sides and go through the bore of a roller tube. The tube rolls in the drive sprocket. What appears to be "stretch" is really wear on the pins or in the bore of the rollers. Suppose for example the wear on each pin is one thousandth of an inch, and there are 300 links, then the chain becomes a sixth of an inch longer and so on. If the chains become too long, then the tensioner cannot extend to push the slider far enough and we get chain rattle, especially on cold startup when the tensioner is not fully extended.

Now the tensioner pushes a slider against the loose side of the chain to keep it snug on the sprocket because if it is not snug, the chain may skip and put the cam and valves out of synchronism with the crank/piston and goodbye engine.

There are further complexities because when you take your foot off the gas, the loose side of the chain becomes the tight side. This creates a sudden load on the chains which may increase the pin/roller wear. Of course poor lubrication will do this too.

To hear the effects of a loose chain, remove the tensioner and reinstall it with a fat washer to position is farther out from the slider. At some point when repositioned farther out from the slider the tensioner will not be able to maintain chain tightness and you will hear the demonic rattle,

putting the car in reverse while still moving forward or vice versa will also give the chain a nice jolt.
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  #49  
Old 12-28-2017, 03:23 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by nedmon View Post
putting the car in reverse while still moving forward or vice versa will also give the chain a nice jolt.
Please elaborate on this statement.

BTW some posters do suggest to replace the tensioner as preventive maintenance.
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  #50  
Old 12-28-2017, 05:24 PM
nedmon nedmon is offline
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Gotta think of the tight and loose side of the timing chain.

When driving along one side of the chain is tight as the crank sprocket is pulling it. The other, loose side is kept tight by the tensioner pushing against the slider which in turn pushes against and keeps the chain tight,

So when the crank sprocket slows down, the tight side is no longer tight and loosens while the loose side becomes tight.

The change in chain "pull" direction creates a jolt.

The jolt is greater when a sudden change in chain pull direction happens as when you put it in reverse while the car is still moving forward.
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