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  #1  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:39 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Misfires on Cylinder 4,5,6

Hi All - Did some major work on my car but still getting codes.

328XI E90, 97K
  • Replaced the MAF
  • Replaced the valve cover gasket
  • Replaced bank 1 and bank 2 O2 sensors.
  • Vaccum Leak checked

I am getting these codes:
P0305 - Misfire Cyl 5
P0306 - Misfire Cyl 6
P0304 - Misfire Cyl 4
P0300 - Multiple misfires
P00BC - MAF Air Sensor outside normal range

Stalls out at idle sometimes and runs lean all the time. Any tips appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:48 PM
KING_TAGS.E46 KING_TAGS.E46 is offline
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first swap coil packs.
Then if it doesnít move the misfire
Swap spark plugs
If it doesnít move the misfire
Swap injectors
Then remove spark plugs again in those cylinders and do Compression test in those cylinders and cylinder leak down test.


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  #3  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:56 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Will do, I have actually done that before but I cannot believe this guy didn't torque and tighten down the spark plugs.
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:57 PM
KING_TAGS.E46 KING_TAGS.E46 is offline
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That also could be an issue. check the spacing on the head of the plugs with a spark plug gauge


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  #5  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:42 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer328xi View Post
...328XI E90, 97K...Replaced the MAF; Replaced the valve cover gasket; Replaced bank 1 and bank 2 O2 sensors; Vaccum Leak checked
I am getting these codes: [P0304, P0305. P0306, P0300, P00BC]...
Stalls out at idle sometimes and runs lean all the time. Any tips appreciated.
QUESTIONS:
1) WHY did you change the VCG & WHAT (a) performance issues & (b) Fault Codes did you have BEFORE you changed the VCG?
1a) Was there any OIL in any of the spark plug wells before or after you changed the VCG?
1b) Did you change ANY of the hoses attached to the intake manifold, particularly the hose that attaches to the rear of the VC when you changed the Valve Cover Gasket?
2) HOW did you check for vacuum leak (specifics)?
3) At WHAT engine temp, or after running for how long, does the engine stall at idle?
4) HOW (what tests used) did you determine the engine "runs lean all the time"?
5) If you clear the codes and drive the vehicle, what codes return in the first 5 minutes, and what is the Freeze Frame Data for each?
6) WHAT Scan Tool or Software do you have available for reading Fault Codes, Freeze Frame Data & Parameters?

With vacuum hoses that are 12 to 13 years old, it is quite likely that removing and replacing the Valve Cover will result in a cracked hose/ fitting and a vacuum leak. Any air leak into a hose connected to the Intake Manifold admits air which is "UN-metered" by the MAF, so the MAF is telling the DME to fuel for LESS air than is actually entering the engine, hence Lean Fueling.

As for the misfire codes, if ALL THREE Bank 2 cylinders are misfiring, what those 3 coils have in common is the SAME Ground point (X6177) per this TIS Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nder-6/S8BHEJU

I would suggest providing answers to the questions above, and doing further proper diagnostics BEFORE doing anything else.

George
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  #6  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:44 PM
smassey321 smassey321 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
QUESTIONS:


As for the misfire codes, if ALL THREE Bank 2 cylinders are misfiring, what those 3 coils have in common is the SAME Ground point (X6177) per this TIS Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nder-6/S8BHEJU
+1 on this
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  #7  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:33 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Great Questions. Will do some research and I have definitely looked for vaccum leaks but just can't see or find it.

1) Leaking oil from VCG
1a) I didnt see them but my impression is no.
1b) I didnt personally do that part. I have looked for leaky hoses and didnt see any. Will double check
2) I used a oil in a can smoker to smoke test it. Some smoke leaked out from the injector seals. So I replaced those and they are snug
3) Its probably around 180 after 5-10 minutes
4) This came from my friends scanner. Earlier it reported it as well. I can smell unburned gas as well
5) That's what I did to get these codes. Not sure of the rate
6) I use a Windows laptop and ODB Wiz which I have found to work really, really well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
QUESTIONS:
1) WHY did you change the VCG & WHAT (a) performance issues & (b) Fault Codes did you have BEFORE you changed the VCG?
1a) Was there any OIL in any of the spark plug wells before or after you changed the VCG?
1b) Did you change ANY of the hoses attached to the intake manifold, particularly the hose that attaches to the rear of the VC when you changed the Valve Cover Gasket?
2) HOW did you check for vacuum leak (specifics)?
3) At WHAT engine temp, or after running for how long, does the engine stall at idle?
4) HOW (what tests used) did you determine the engine "runs lean all the time"?
5) If you clear the codes and drive the vehicle, what codes return in the first 5 minutes, and what is the Freeze Frame Data for each?
6) WHAT Scan Tool or Software do you have available for reading Fault Codes, Freeze Frame Data & Parameters?

With vacuum hoses that are 12 to 13 years old, it is quite likely that removing and replacing the Valve Cover will result in a cracked hose/ fitting and a vacuum leak. Any air leak into a hose connected to the Intake Manifold admits air which is "UN-metered" by the MAF, so the MAF is telling the DME to fuel for LESS air than is actually entering the engine, hence Lean Fueling.

As for the misfire codes, if ALL THREE Bank 2 cylinders are misfiring, what those 3 coils have in common is the SAME Ground point (X6177) per this TIS Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nder-6/S8BHEJU

I would suggest providing answers to the questions above, and doing further proper diagnostics BEFORE doing anything else.

George
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  #8  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:34 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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I have never heard of this. Will research thanks.
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2019, 02:03 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Hey Guys - So I opened the coil packs on 1,2,4,5,6 and I immediately noticed that inside of the number 4 chamber there was a little bit of oil on the outside. So I decided to remove the number 4 spark plug and it had oil literally all over it. The other chambers looked clean and normal.

Any suggestions on what would cause oil all over the spark plug? It was hard to remove and I think torqued correctly but I think I will replace it and re-torque the others and see what happens.
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2019, 07:21 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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After moving the spark plugs and coil from 4-1, nothing really changed so I think its safe to say this vehicle needs to head to a shop. I suspect the valve cover gasket installation did not go as planned and has to be redone. There was oil on the 4 spark plug and even a little on the number 1 spark plug although that had not misfired.
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  #11  
Old 09-15-2019, 07:29 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Misfires on Cylinder 4,5,6

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer328xi View Post
After moving the spark plugs and coil from 4-1, nothing really changed so I think its safe to say this vehicle needs to head to a shop. I suspect the valve cover gasket installation did not go as planned and has to be redone. There was oil on the 4 spark plug and even a little on the number 1 spark plug although that had not misfired.


No interest in DIYing? Well I guess DIYing again?


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  #12  
Old 09-16-2019, 07:00 AM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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I'm open to suggestions but this one looks fairly hard. Any DIY recommended steps other then opening the valve cover gasket?
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:37 AM
dharmabmw dharmabmw is offline
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Did you reset the codes after doing the coil swap? Oil on the coil packs can damage the insulation on them. Sometimes they can be cleaned with a solvent and then you can reuse them. Otherwise replacement is the only option. With respect to oil in the well, clean it out and see if it fills back up.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2019, 06:25 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmabmw View Post
Did you reset the codes after doing the coil swap? Oil on the coil packs can damage the insulation on them. Sometimes they can be cleaned with a solvent and then you can reuse them. Otherwise replacement is the only option. With respect to oil in the well, clean it out and see if it fills back up.
Yeah, I decided to reset the codes AND remove all the spark plugs and clean everything with carb cleaner. The results were interesting.

One of the misfires moved with the spark plug and now misfires in #1. I didnt move the coil pack so it must be the plug.

All of the plugs look dirty and have oil on the threaded part but not necessarily the spark part. I had replaced all coils and plugs just 20k miles ago but I think the plugs are bad and got oil on them after the VCG job. It might just be coincidental that it was cylinders 4,5,6 initially.

Cylinder's 4's plug felt improper to me. It was a little corroded on the threaded part and I think the erroneous air leak was from that plug. After putting in all the plugs and torquing to the high on of the range (30NM) the air leak error message is gone which is HUGE as it means there is no vacuum leak elsewhere at all.

I did shoot a lint free towel and carb cleaner into the wells for the spark plugs but not into the actual firing chamber. I believe I got all visible oil but will reinspect when my new plusgs arrive.

When you saw to remove oil, do you mean from the spark plug well (where it sits) or actually putting a towel into the engine? I was hesitant to do that though I know you can use compressed air.

Thanks for the great tips guys, almost got this one figured out.
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  #15  
Old 09-23-2019, 07:33 AM
marvinstockman marvinstockman is online now
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Large vacuum leak?

Low fuel pressure?
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  #16  
Old 09-23-2019, 07:40 AM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Misfires on Cylinder 4,5,6

Have you ever replaced these spark plugs? When replacing the valve cover, the spark plug tubes are often overlooked as a something that needs replacing. When they get too hard, thatís where the oil drips down to the plugs. Oil can ruin the plugs. It sounds like you are moving plugs around but if you can replace the spark plug tubes and valve cover along with new plugs, you may solve this whole issue. These are maintenance items anyway. Need to keep the oil from getting back down there or else the work is pointless.


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  #17  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:03 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Yeah, I replaced all coils and plugs at 75K which was 22K ago. We did install the new seals for the spark plugs etc. We used the kit from FCP Euro. My thinking is to drain and clean all the oil out, replace the plugs and see if it returns to normal or if the plugs fill with oil again.

This is the kit. Only thing we didnt replace was the metal cylinder things but that seems kind of superficial. The rubber gaskets were in fact replaced though.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...11127582245kt2
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:04 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyUnicornTaco View Post
Have you ever replaced these spark plugs? When replacing the valve cover, the spark plug tubes are often overlooked as a something that needs replacing. When they get too hard, thatís where the oil drips down to the plugs. Oil can ruin the plugs. It sounds like you are moving plugs around but if you can replace the spark plug tubes and valve cover along with new plugs, you may solve this whole issue. These are maintenance items anyway. Need to keep the oil from getting back down there or else the work is pointless.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvinstockman View Post
Large vacuum leak?

Low fuel pressure?
No, fuel pressure good and after the plugs got reinserted no air leaks reported.
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:35 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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Ok, replaced all spark plugs and then moved 3 good coil packs from 1,2,3 to 4,5,6 and the misfire remains on 4,5,6. So basically I know for certain that the spark plugs on 4,5,6 are good despite the misfiring. I also checked for oil in the chamber and found basically none. Here are the diagnostics I have right now. I did look at the cabling too and it looks ok.
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:22 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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What specific spark plugs did you use?


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  #21  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:49 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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I used Bosch OEM spark plugs. The first 3 cylinders are fine so I know the spark plugs and coils are ok.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:08 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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If you found oil on the plugs or above in the spark plugs tubes Iím thinking this might be the continued issue. Any oil on the plugs can cause misfires. It shouldnít be in the tubes or the threads.


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  #23  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:24 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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I thought about that but the only way I know how to get oil out of there is to use a coat hanger with cotton on the bottom. That didnt pull out anything. I may bite the bullet and buy a scope though. Is there another method for getting oil out? The sprayer method did not work for me because the plastic dipping part was not deep enough.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:37 AM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer328xi View Post
I thought about that but the only way I know how to get oil out of there is to use a coat hanger with cotton on the bottom. That didnt pull out anything. I may bite the bullet and buy a scope though. Is there another method for getting oil out? The sprayer method did not work for me because the plastic dipping part was not deep enough.


Iíve used 6 inch cotton swabs and paper towels. I also took a bendy straw from a kids souvenir cup and used it to modify the end of a shop vac. That helped a lot with oil and cleaning up debris on hard to reach places.


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  #25  
Old 10-20-2019, 08:17 PM
bimmer328xi bimmer328xi is offline
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I used a endoscope to check things out and actually there is no oil down there. Just some carbon build up but it looks the same as the good cylinders so I may to tow it to a shop.
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