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  #1  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:57 PM
bmrjohn bmrjohn is offline
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Tire Rotation

Do I need to rotate the run flats on my new 330i?
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2019, 02:03 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Yes. Alignment alignment alignment. Rotation. Inflation.
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Last edited by Doug Huffman; 09-30-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:56 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Nobody's going to make you do it.

But, if you have a square set-up (all four tires and wheels the same), it will make your tires wear evenly. If you lease (~55% of new BMW drivers do), alignment, inflation, and rotation (AIR) can let you avoid buying new tires before lease turn-in or getting hit with the dreaded BMW FS "excessive tire wear" charge. BMW FS requires tread depths to be 4/32" or greater at lease turn-in.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 10-02-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:51 PM
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JamesWWIII JamesWWIII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrjohn View Post
Do I need to rotate the run flats on my new 330i?
Only if you've got a square set-up.
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:01 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrjohn View Post
Do I need to rotate the run flats on my new 330i?
What does BMW say in the owner's manual? In the past they have not recommended tire rotations on square setups. I think this has to do with alignment settings. Basically it's up the owner.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:17 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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BMW's changed their minds on this more than once: don't, front-to-back only, side-to-side only, and my favorite... "consult a BMW center." All the tire manufacturers recommend it, and usually require it to get the full mileage tire warranty. The tire rotation patterns are different for FWD and RWD vehicles. RWD is straight going forward, and cross going backward: RR > RF > LR > LF > RR.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:13 PM
MrBlz MrBlz is offline
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Tire Rotation

If the tires are rotational you can only do front to back. It cannot hurt. I am on my 5th BMW, 3 year lease, typically just about 36000 miles and never rotated tires. At turn in I have had 4/32 and 5/32 tread so I was good.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrjohn View Post
Do I need to rotate the run flats on my new 330i?
From the TIS website...also check your owners manual:

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  #9  
Old 10-03-2019, 01:20 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by QSilver7 View Post
From the TIS website...also check your owners manual:

Well, that's clear as mud. Since the rear tires generally wear faster, more so on a RWD BMW than on a AWD BMW, it's pretty much saying that you must rotate tire between axles, or replace all four tires when the tread depth difference between axles is 2mm (2.5 32nds inch).

5000km is 3106 miles. That would be 13 rotation stints on a set of 40k mile tires, and 16 rotation stints on a set of 50k mile tires. That would definitely all-but-eliminate handling characteristics changes due to tire rotation. But, how good is good enough?

My goal with a set of tires is eight rotation stints. That puts each tire on each corner twice. In theory, they'd all have identical wear at the end. You could do four stints, but that would increase handling characteristics changes and wouldn't control feathering as well as eight rotation stints would.

I've found that high-performance, summer tires wear faster when new. (They also perform significantly better when new.) I've had Conti' DW's and Michelin PSS's wear twice as much in the first rotation stint than in the second, equal duration rotation stint. So, for high-performance, summer tires I now determine the second and subsequent rotation stints by dividing the expected tire life by 7.5. The first rotation stint would be half that. A 40k-mile set of high-performance tires would first get rotated at ~2700 miles, an then every ~5300 miles.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 10-03-2019 at 01:24 AM.
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  #10  
Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM
jlevin jlevin is offline
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Great reply, @Autoputzer. Thumbs up for clear as mud.
I am a believer in tire inflation, alignment, and rotation during routine service intervals. With that said, I found BMW service technicians prefer to keep the better tread on the rear and rotate between axels. I only became aware of this by marking my tires before service. The BMW service advisor does not recommend tire rotation.
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  #11  
Old Yesterday, 09:10 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlevin View Post
Great reply, @Autoputzer. Thumbs up for clear as mud.
I am a believer in tire inflation, alignment, and rotation during routine service intervals. With that said, I found BMW service technicians prefer to keep the better tread on the rear and rotate between axels. I only became aware of this by marking my tires before service. The BMW service advisor does not recommend tire rotation.
The rest of the universe uses a combination of front-back and side-side rotation patterns, with them being different for FWD and RWD vehicles. The reason for that is that after a stint of heavy feathering, you want a stint of light feathering in the opposite direction. That gradually and gently rounds off the tip of the feather, and reduces the chance of a sharp corner of the feathered tread block getting torn off. The rotation stint following the gradual and gentle feathering in the opposite direction will be a hard feathering in the opposite direction of the original rotation stint.

I rotated my 535i's tires a couple of weekends ago. Part of my routine is to measure the depth of the four circumferential channels with a high-resolution digital depth gauge. I'd recently had an alignment where the shop put the settings pretty much right in the middle of the BMW specification windows. But, the recent tread depth measurements show excessive wear on the outside of both rear tires.

A massive pothole knocked my car out of alignment, including knocking the right front camber out of spec'. The only way to fix that is to replace the upper control arm. They had to order the part and they'll have to do a realignment when it's installed this week. While they're doing that, I'm going to have them dial back the toe-in in the rear wheels.

My current tires only have two more 5k-mile rotation stints in them. I want to get the alignment straight before I get new tires. Doing so will extend the life of my next set of tires by 5k miles. My rule is to never put new tires on a car with over 100k miles on it. So, extending the life of the next set of tires will also extend the life of the car (with me) by 5k miles.

I built a magic spreadsheet that records tread depths and calculates wear since the last measurement (tire rotation). It also can be used as a wear simulator to predict future tread depths based on a given set of wear values. Here's three snapshots: actual data now, predicted wear on the next set of tires after 37.5k miles with the current alignment, and the predicted wear of the next set of tires after 42.5k miles with an optimized alignment.

The current wear data also suggests that I need to goose up the rear tires' pressure a little, to concentrate the wear more in the middle. I only change the baseline pressures at tire rotation. Sticking to the same pressures over an entire rotation stint gives me measurable correlations between pressure and wear. When doing experiments, it's important to only vary one parameter at a time. So, this next rotation stint will be with the same pressures but less rear toe-in. In the final rotation stint on these tires, I'll tweak the rear tire pressure.
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Last edited by Autoputzer; Yesterday at 10:36 AM.
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  #12  
Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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In my old E39 there were no tire rotation, and tires were replaced 20k to 25k [email protected], usually with one or two free tires (from tread credits or something).

Current F30 original factory tires(A/S RFT) lasted 30k miles, probably with 5k miles of life left.

Since then the car goes to Americastire which has road force by default, and rearward cross every 3k miles. Rearward allows the non-steering tires to reverse the feathering in the rear.
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  #13  
Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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My goal now with my BMW's is to keep them 100k miles. Past that, they're too expensive to maintain and too unreliable to be a suitable road trip car. An additional goal with Frau Putzer's 2018 X3 xDrive 30i is to only buy one set of tires for the thing. The second set of tires usually don't last as long as the first set of tires. That's because the suspension and steering parts will incur wear, and there will be some movement in the alignment. So, my goal for the X3 is to get somewhere around 52k miles out of the OE set of tires and somewhere around 48k miles out of the second set of tires.

New tire wear faster than old tires. (New high-performance tires wear a lot faster than old high-performance tires.) Based on careful measurement of tread depths at 10.4k miles (with the digital tread depth gauge and when the tires were off the car for rotation), it looks like I'll only achieve ~46k miles before the tread depths are down to 3/32". But, that's assuming that the wear rate of the tires will remain constant. I'm hoping for that slower wear rate with older tires to get me to my goal of 52k miles.

The "good" wear data at 10.4k miles also showed that I'm getting almost perfectly even wear across three of the four circumferential channels of the tires. But, the tires are round shouldered, starting out with 9/32" of depth in the inner and outer circumferential channels and 10/32" of depth in the two middle channels. My goal is to slightly concentrate more wear in the middle channels. Ideally, all four channels on all four tire will wear down to about 3/32" at the same time. So, I've increased the pressures from two PSI over those on the door jamb decal to four PSI over. I'll be rotating the tires again in 1500 miles, and I will do another "good" measurement.
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Last edited by Autoputzer; Yesterday at 02:48 PM.
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