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  #1  
Old 10-13-2019, 06:51 AM
Deacon352nd Deacon352nd is offline
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Wheel speed sensors

In the past three years my Indy has replaced all four wheel speed sensors on my 2009 E93 ( 40,000 miles) after I got the three yellow lights on the dash- the small triangle in a circle, brake, and ABS. Each time after reading the code, the offending sensor was placed on a different wheel and the code was re-read just to make sure it was THAT sensor and each time the same sensor threw a code now on that different wheel. My Indy is top rated in the area but I just got the three lights again. The car rides and drives perfectly except for these three lights. Any suggestion of what else it could be before I bring it back to the Indy? I don't intend to replace any wheel speed sensors. I'd rather drive the car until a wheel falls off.
I live very close to Long Island Sound but the car was always garaged before I bought it with only 28k on it four years ago. The car was NEVER driven in the snow or salt covered roads or even the rain until the last few months. Still never driven in the snow or salt covered roads. Indy says he's never seen a car so clean underneath. No rust or corrosion anywhere.

Last edited by Deacon352nd; 10-13-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:33 PM
CALWATERBOY TRE's Avatar
CALWATERBOY TRE CALWATERBOY TRE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon352nd View Post
In the past three years my Indy has replaced all four wheel speed sensors on my 2009 E93 ( 40,000 miles) after I got the three yellow lights on the dash- the small triangle in a circle, brake, and ABS. Each time after reading the code, the offending sensor was placed on a different wheel and the code was re-read just to make sure it was THAT sensor and each time the same sensor threw a code now on that different wheel. My Indy is top rated in the area but I just got the three lights again. The car rides and drives perfectly except for these three lights. Any suggestion of what else it could be before I bring it back to the Indy? I don't intend to replace any wheel speed sensors. I'd rather drive the car until a wheel falls off.
I live very close to Long Island Sound but the car was always garaged before I bought it with only 28k on it four years ago. The car was NEVER driven in the snow or salt covered roads or even the rain until the last few months. Still never driven in the snow or salt covered roads. Indy says he's never seen a car so clean underneath. No rust or corrosion anywhere.

Odd....who's yer Indy? Paying attention to tire pressure?
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2019, 06:40 AM
Deacon352nd Deacon352nd is offline
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Tire pressure is fine. TPMS has only gone off once, two years ago in winter on rear left tire. A few pounds low, tire inflated to correct pressure and TPMS reset. New tires were purchased last spring and no problems. But I will recheck pressure on all tires today. But I don't expect them to be off correct pressure.
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:28 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon352nd View Post
In the past three years my Indy has replaced all four wheel speed sensors on my 2009 E93 ( 40,000 miles) after I got the three yellow lights on the dash- the small triangle in a circle, brake, and ABS. Each time after reading the code, the offending sensor was placed on a different wheel and the code was re-read just to make sure it was THAT sensor and each time the same sensor threw a code now on that different wheel. My Indy is top rated in the area but I just got the three lights again.
You/your Indy should be aware that INPA/ISTA can monitor Wheel Speed Sensor function in real time, seeing the readout of (1) wheel speed signals as received by the DSC Module from EACH of the FOUR sensors, and (2) seeing Direction of Rotation for each. Having someone watch those Parameters as displayed on computer screen as you drive gives MORE INFORMATION than simply reading the fault code.

For instance you don't know if the signal is intermittent, out of range, open circuit, etc. just from the code, but reading the Live Data can give you more information. I am NOT suggesting that your Indy missed anything or unnecessarily replaced a sensor in any earlier repair, and in fact, he MAY have monitored Parameters with vehicle in motion. If the fault, whatever it was, followed the sensor to the new location, then clearly the fault was in the sensor or it's wiring/ connector, and NOT the vehicle harness upstream of the Sensor Connector, and NOT due to the reluctor or "tone ring". What I AM suggesting is that NOW, diagnosis BEYOND simply reading fault codes is indicated to properly diagnose what has failed, and perhaps WHY it has failed.

My SWAG on your information so far is that for some reason, your vehicle had a "Bad Batch" of Wheel Speed Sensors. If ALL FOUR of them failed in some way, one at a time, and all were replaced by proper OEM Sensors, it is likely that the issue you have NOW is NOT a bad sensor per se, but rather a wiring or connector issue.

I have driven vehicles with ABS Sensors for 30 years, all of which were 6 years old or more when I bought them, and operated until > 20 years old, and NEVER had to replace a Wheel Speed Sensor. They CAN and DO fail, but ALL FOUR over 3 years? Time to do some diagnosis BEYOND simply reading fault codes and moving parts around. As stated, BMW diagnostic software (INPA/ISTA) allows you to do additional diagnosis without lifting a wrench or disconnecting ANYTHING.

A ScreenPrint of Wheel Speed Sensor readout is attached so you get a better idea of what is possible. The version of INPA shown is mostly in German, so here are translations:
Wheel Speed = Radgeschwindigkeiten
Vorne = Front
Hinten = Rear
Links = Left
Rechts = Right
Drehrichtung = Direction of Rotation
Steht = Standing/ Still
This screen was with car stationary, simply to show what Parameters can be monitored, so there are NO values for any parameter. If the car were moving, bar graphs would display black bars & values would appear.

BTW, the TPMS system and DSC/ABS system are completely separate, so tire pressure, size, etc. is irrelevant. If your DSC/ABS warning light came on when you had a low tire, you would NOT need TPMS or FTM, and it would come on every time you drove in a circle.

Please let us know what you find,
George
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2019, 11:35 AM
08 335Ci 08 335Ci is offline
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I think BMW got a bad batch of wheel speed sensors. 75K on my 2010 335 and I got LF sensor bad. Within 2 wks the other 3 went out. My 2008 when totaled had 116K and the original sensors.

Stop playing and replace all 4 with newest spec. sensors.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:29 PM
wilt wilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08 335Ci View Post
I think BMW got a bad batch of wheel speed sensors. 75K on my 2010 335 and I got LF sensor bad. Within 2 wks the other 3 went out. My 2008 when totaled had 116K and the original sensors.

Stop playing and replace all 4 with newest spec. sensors.
Wheel sensors have batteries, the batteries are expected to last a variable period,
"The lithium ion batteries inside TPMS sensors may last anywhere from five to 10 years. Five to six years is a more typical lifespan for older TPMS sensors. TPMS sensors don't broadcast a continuous signal but only broadcast when the vehicle is in motion. Even then, the signal is intermittent to conserve battery life."
When my wife bought a set of tires for her 2007 car about 2016 or so, we instructed the tire store to replace her TPMS sensors. They failed to do so, but had not charged us for the sensors, but I complained to the store manager that we would have to pay extra for dismounting and remounting the tires because of their oversight. The manager said that if the sensor batteries failed within one year, they would waive labor charges, so we took the car. ONE WEEK later, we had to bring the car back to them to replace a TPMS sensor with a dead battery; we had them do ALL FOUR so we would not have to come back three more times later!

Last edited by wilt; 10-17-2019 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:23 PM
08 335Ci 08 335Ci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilt View Post
Wheel sensors have batteries, the batteries are expected to last a variable period,
"The lithium ion batteries inside TPMS sensors may last anywhere from five to 10 years. Five to six years is a more typical lifespan for older TPMS sensors. TPMS sensors don't broadcast a continuous signal but only broadcast when the vehicle is in motion. Even then, the signal is intermittent to conserve battery life."
When my wife bought a set of tires for her 2007 car about 2016 or so, we instructed the tire store to replace her TPMS sensors. They failed to do so, but had not charged us for the sensors, but I complained to the store manager that we would have to pay extra for dismounting and remounting the tires because of their oversight. The manager said that if the sensor batteries failed within one year, they would waive labor charges, so we took the car. ONE WEEK later, we had to bring the car back to them to replace a TPMS sensor with a dead battery; we had them do ALL FOUR so we would not have to come back three more times later!
Wheel speed sensors use a regulator affixed to the wheel bearing. This regulator causes a pulsing magnetic field turned into electrical pulses by the wheel speed sensor. These signals are then used by the car to monitor several functions, ABS and air bags are two.

There are no batteries in the wheel speed sensors.
__________________
No matter how fast I go, there's always someone slower in front of me.

2010 E92 335 M Sport, Titan Silver Metallic, Steptronic, JB-4 G5 ISO, WMI, 3.5 Tmap (22 psi boost), BEF, Front Strut Brace, SS brake lines, Drilled and Slotted Rotors, Anti-lag, OCC, Pedal tuner, Escort Max 360

Gone, but not forgotten ( totaled)
'08 335 E92, M-Sport suspension, 6 sp auto, w/paddle shift

CCA Member 109065 since 1993

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  #8  
Old 10-20-2019, 02:09 PM
wilt wilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08 335Ci View Post
Wheel speed sensors use a regulator affixed to the wheel bearing. This regulator causes a pulsing magnetic field turned into electrical pulses by the wheel speed sensor. These signals are then used by the car to monitor several functions, ABS and air bags are two.

There are no batteries in the wheel speed sensors.
I was referring to the TPMS sensors, not the wheel speed sensors. I failed to distinguish one from the other, so putting TPMS information into a thread about wheel speed sensors was inappropriate, but OP mentions TPMS specifically in post 3, creating the confusion.
But there is the Canadian TPM, which does not use the TPMS for tire pressure.

Last edited by wilt; 10-20-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2019, 06:31 AM
Deacon352nd Deacon352nd is offline
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My Indy has monitored it in real time and in fact the last sensor he replaced, he called me to tell me he was looking at the read out of my parked car and that sensor was telling him it was moving at 5mph.
Since the lights showed up again, I have had the yellow circle with the exclamation point show and then disappear the next day and a few days ago the yellow gear with the exclamation point after which the transmission went into limp mode and I had to drive the car home in first gear. Luckily I was in town and couldn't go more than 30 mph anyway. That has since disappeared and the car drives normally except for the three lights concerning the wheel sensors.
I'm positive that it is some type of connector or wiring problem but what?
Any suggestions before my Indy looks at it next week?
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2019, 07:57 AM
Markst Markst is offline
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The sensors connect to the wiring in the wheel well here



Which then goes directly to the ABS unit connector X18303



You can check or clean the connections there
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