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  #2176  
Old 09-30-2018, 07:25 PM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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Originally Posted by JamesWWIII View Post
Ah, yes...the 4-letter “C-word”.



I’ve never used it here because I don’t want to be accused of “rudeness” but that’s essentially how I (and quite a few industry pundits) would describe the over-enthusiastic followers/customers of this company’s products, stock and founder. The breathless hyperbole and incessant sunshine-pumping can definitely be off-putting.


That’s alright. Thanks for expressing your opinion and it’s valid.

I on the other hand, am very much enjoying this car and very happy with it.

Cheers!


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  #2177  
Old 09-30-2018, 07:31 PM
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Welcome to the club!

Great to have more experienced BMW owners comment on the ownership experiences with these cars.

Thanks Man!



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  #2178  
Old 09-30-2018, 07:36 PM
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Congrats on the new ride, and just in time to get last offer of free supercharging too!!!




Thanks!

I truly did buy a car plus an offer of free fuel for life. Unreal.



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  #2179  
Old 09-30-2018, 07:55 PM
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Then somewhere there exists a rolling 40+ gig repository of all firmware/software updates for BMW cars and gave myself my own software updates.
Is there a community on coding of Model 3/S/X?

BMW has not been too militant about people hacking their bimmers, but Tesla has been known to contact owners plugging into the car's ethernet ports.

So is it likely Tesla will let go of 40GB+(or 400GB or 4TB or whatever) of FW/SW updates without chasing down those who download/install these updates?

This is analogous to closed iOS and open Android, right?
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  #2180  
Old 09-30-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Is there a community on coding of Model 3/S/X?

BMW has not been too militant about people hacking their bimmers, but Tesla has been known to contact owners plugging into the car's ethernet ports.

So is it likely Tesla will let go of 40GB+(or 400GB or 4TB or whatever) of FW/SW updates without chasing down those who download/install these updates?

This is analogous to closed iOS and open Android, right?
BMW is very uncompromising with hacking the firmware - if they notice it's been modified or messed with the warranty is automatically void. I only started messing with mine once it was out of warranty.

There is a root community for Tesla. Many of the latest updated software leaks are from cars running early, not out yet in public software. This is how we know what's in next weeks update for example. There are a few folks running this on their Model 3 and uploading plenty of images and video with no repercussion I've heard of yet (though they are certainly at risk).

I'm not sure of the risks here. Not something I looked into yet, and probably won't until the warranty is up.

There is no iOS/Android analogy here. A cars are going to be technically closed. For liability reasons, etc.
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  #2181  
Old 09-30-2018, 08:39 PM
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That's alright. Thanks for expressing your opinion and it's valid.

I on the other hand, am very much enjoying this car and very happy with it.

Cheers!


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Those who can't contribute at any level of in-depth discourse will only have their shallow drive-by snark. As I said, its half the fun of owning one of these.
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  #2182  
Old 09-30-2018, 09:39 PM
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Those who can't contribute at any level of in-depth discourse will only have their shallow drive-by snark. As I said, its half the fun of owning one of these.
It’s astounding to me that someone who has so much love for an inanimate object can be so bothered by the idea that any other person might not feel the same admiration. Please don’t try to deny this obvious fact, you’ve made it clear by your snarky and rude references to me in more than one of your fawning posts since my initial comments that dared not to be yet another heaping helping of praise for Elon’s magic chariot of the gods. That’s a sign of belonging to that “C-word” I mentioned earlier.

Furthermore, I hope you realize that your self-description of “half the fun” of Tesla ownership basically matches the definition of a troll. Is that really what you joined this forum for? And people say BMW owners are snobs...
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  #2183  
Old 09-30-2018, 10:29 PM
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It’s astounding to me that someone who has so much love for an inanimate object can be so bothered by the idea that any other person might not feel the same admiration.
We're all here spending our time on an internet forum discussing cars. Not sure anyone here has the platform to stand on on accusing another of love for inanimate objects.

BTW, no one is bothered at all. Amused, yea - the car has been out almost a full year and the most we got out of you was some one liner snark. Surely you can find a way to spend time with one (a friend, Turo, a Tesla location), wring it out 8/10ths where appropriate and give us some in-depth critique. What you like, what you didn't, technicals of the various handling aspects when the car is pushed. Let us read the best you have to offer as a driver. Consider contributing something constructive and add to the discussion.
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  #2184  
Old 09-30-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Looking at the list of v9 changes, at least there is no critical system components.
It's guaranteed many updates (including probably the next one) updates critical components. Why do I suspect this?

When I update my BMW firmware, various components that are getting updated whir..honk, fans go on, lights on and off, various status indicates (ABS, Seatbelt, Airbag) flash on and off. It can be up to a 40 minute process as various firmware and controllers are updated and react as they get reset.

Same with the Tesla. If something fails to update you'll get notified on screen and a customer support or a SC can remotely diagnose the logs and either resend an update, have you go to a SC, or get flatbed to one if they determine it's not safe.

I've done BMW service-center level (unsupported) flashes on my own on my BMW, and I don't at all feel nervous about an officially supported level of remote flashing by Tesla.

A friend of mine had his A/C blower go out, he called support and they were able to look at his car logs - identify an error/fault raised by the unit and actually fix/reset the module remotely (wasn't a hardware issue). The level of logging and diagnostics Tesla support can get remotely with issues is MUCH greater than BMW service centers get when something goes wrong with flashing at the service center (and again, I know because I have all of these same tools). Tesla anticipated the need for remote updates so the entire platform is built around the ability to flash/update, diagnose and debug at a low level.
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Last edited by paranoidroid; 09-30-2018 at 10:45 PM.
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  #2185  
Old 09-30-2018, 11:05 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by paranoidroid View Post
It's guaranteed many updates (including probably the next one) updates critical components. Why do I suspect this?

When I update my BMW firmware, various components that are getting updated whir..honk, fans go on, lights on and off, various status indicates (ABS, Seatbelt, Airbag) flash on and off. It can be up to a 40 minute process as various firmware and controllers are updated and react as they get reset.

Same with the Tesla. If something fails to update you'll get notified on screen and a customer support or a SC can remotely diagnose the logs and either resend an update, have you go to a SC, or get flatbed to one if they determine it's not safe.

I've done BMW service-center level (unsupported) flashes on my own on my BMW, and I don't at all feel nervous about an officially supported level of remote flashing by Tesla.

A friend of mine had his A/C blower go out, he called support and they were able to look at his car logs - identify an error/fault raised by the unit and actually fix/reset the module remotely (wasn't a hardware issue). The level of logging and diagnostics Tesla support can get remotely with issues is MUCH greater than BMW service centers get when something goes wrong with flashing at the service center (and again, I know because I have all of these same tools). Tesla anticipated the need for remote updates so the entire platform is built around the ability to flash/update, diagnose and debug at a low level.
That is excellent feedback.

The dealer foremen did say going from E to F-chassis, the F cars have a lot more diagnostics counters and logs than E, to the extent that even piggyback tunes are detectable.

E.g. the SA showed up a ream of printouts just for alarm tripping, down to the date and time, which sensor(s), and any fault around the same time.

According to the foremen, G chassis architecture has been significantly revamped to bring the level of diags and logging a level, or two (meaning 1x, to 10x?!?) beyond F, so the level of sophistication may be getting up there with Tesla.

As previously mentioned, BMW(and every other brand) SV R&D centers are hard at work!

Since your comments include warranty expiration, would it be safe to touch anything on Model 3 before 8 years/120000 miles drivetrain warranty is up?

Back to the v9 release, does Tesla at least ask owners to park the car before accepting the updates, just like BMW says for Live Cockpit updates?

Last edited by namelessman; 09-30-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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  #2186  
Old 09-30-2018, 11:16 PM
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That is excellent feedback.

The dealer foremen did say going from E to F-chassis, the F cars have a lot more diagnostics counters and logs than E, to the extent that even piggyback tunes are detectable.

E.g. the SA showed up a ream of printouts just for alarm tripping, down to the date and time, which sensor(s), and any fault around the same time.

According to the foremen, G chassis architecture has been significantly revamped to bring the level of diags and logging a level, or two (meaning 1x, to 10x?!?) beyond F, so the level of sophistication may be getting up there with Tesla.

As previously mentioned, BMW(and every other brand) SV R&D centers are hard at work!

Since your comments include warranty expiration, would it be safe to touch anything on Model 3 before 8 years/120000 miles drivetrain warranty is up?

Back to the v9 release, does Tesla at least ask owners to park the car before accepting the updates, just like BMW says for Live Cockpit updates?
On level of diagnostics with F & G chassis, good to know. E86 was the last I have intimate experience with.

On touching things before 8 years/120000 miles drivetrain warranty is up, no idea. I may mess with it after 50k/4 year general warranty is up. I'll start reading into the details and risks at some point, but there must be a big compelling reason for me to root and hack and I'm not sure there is one for me right now.

On parking the car to update, it absolutely needs to be parked. And Tesla recommends allowing the car to take up to 45 minutes for updates. There is new functionality now where you will get a notification on your phone when there's a new update and you can initiate the update process remotely from your phone when it's convenient.
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  #2187  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:55 AM
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Surely you can find a way to spend time with one (a friend, Turo, a Tesla location), wring it out 8/10ths where appropriate and give us some in-depth critique. What you like, what you didn't, technicals of the various handling aspects when the car is pushed. Let us read the best you have to offer as a driver. Consider contributing something constructive and add to the discussion.
Look, man...I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but I simply find the Model 3 butt-ugly, inside and out. I know you're flabbergasted that someone might view the car this way, but there it is. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and those regarding automobiles tend to be some of the most subjective that can be found.

I don't need to drive one, I'm already well aware it's got oodles of straight-line giddy-up, but there's a little more to a car in my book than 0-60 times. You sound like friends of mine trying to set me up with a girl they know, even though I've already told them there's just zero attraction on my end. I get it, the Tesla "has a great personality". That by itself is just not gonna do it for me. I'm very happy for you that you feel the Model 3 is the greatest car ever built, I just think you might consider toning down the defensiveness every time anyone has something even slightly negative to say about the car or the company. After all, remember you're not posting in a Tesla forum, we're not all drinkers of the Kool-Aid here.

No hard feelings from my end, at the end of the day we're all car enthusiasts, and I wish you many hours of happy and safe motoring.
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  #2188  
Old 10-01-2018, 04:31 AM
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Well, anything is an improvement over having an iPad Pro glued to the center of the dash, but I’ll take my analog gauges over this busy Nintendo display package.
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  #2189  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:43 AM
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Well, anything is an improvement over having an iPad Pro glued to the center of the dash, but I'll take my analog gauges over this busy Nintendo display package.

Is the new screen driver configurable? Other than pre-config'd skins --> driver creates his custom setup, maybe several.

I'd like that....

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY TRE; 10-01-2018 at 05:46 AM.
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  #2190  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:25 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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On parking the car to update, it absolutely needs to be parked. And Tesla recommends allowing the car to take up to 45 minutes for updates. There is new functionality now where you will get a notification on your phone when there's a new update and you can initiate the update process remotely from your phone when it's convenient.
It is good that Tesla instructs owners to update while stationary.

The last time BMW service bricked my car was for a head unit swap. The policy at the time was overnight to download from Germany and rerun diagnostics in the morning to confirm.

The BMW Live Cockpit of 20 minutes per update seems to imply that OS 7.0 architecture(both HW and SW?) has been made modular enough to not take overnight updates and testing.

At the same time, it also means OS 7.0 and beyond with built-in SIM probably follows Tesla too to collect reaps of data from users as part of neural net and data mining(and sent to BMW OTA real time), so customers need to be aware of that too.

Last edited by namelessman; 10-01-2018 at 09:28 AM.
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  #2191  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:48 AM
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Another point is, in the game of neural net and data mining, BMW's 2.5m units per year can easily overcome Tesla's lead even if Tesla can deliver 250k this year. This OS 7.0 can be quite important for BMW.
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  #2192  
Old 10-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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FYI

--> NIO has crashed to earth, trading just $0.40 above it's IPO price and headed down, down, down....

TSLA looking good, however.
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  #2193  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY TRE View Post
.

FYI

--> NIO has crashed to earth, trading just $0.40 above it's IPO price and headed down, down, down....

TSLA looking good, however.
That's an understatement, Tesla is up something like 45 points today. I don't own any TSLA stock (too volatile for this old guy) but I do track the stock price as I would be interested/concerned if TSLA were acquired, went bankrupt, etc., and it affected the service & support I get on a vehicle I just spent $61,000 + taxes on.
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  #2194  
Old 10-01-2018, 02:26 PM
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Just a funny story of a LEO's first encounter with a Model 3 in the wild...

https://jalopnik.com/cop-pulls-tesla...nte-1829437075
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  #2195  
Old 10-01-2018, 04:43 PM
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.

You know a car's come of age when aftermarket performance mods appear.

Yo Model 3 pilots! --> [click here]

Will Tesla have a L Division?
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  #2196  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY TRE View Post
.

You know a car's come of age when aftermarket performance mods appear.

Yo Model 3 pilots! --> [click here]

Will Tesla have a L Division?
This can spice up the bloated rear end and add some characters on the car.
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  #2197  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:47 PM
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I don't need to drive one, I'm already well aware it's got oodles of straight-line giddy-up, but there's a little more to a car in my book than 0-60 times.
Yup, absolutely agree. Since my E36, that's what steered me to BMW instead of American muscle cars that are much faster for less money. And interestingly enough, that's what steered me out of BMW this time and into an American car.
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  #2198  
Old 10-01-2018, 06:59 PM
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It is good that Tesla instructs owners to update while stationary.

The last time BMW service bricked my car was for a head unit swap. The policy at the time was overnight to download from Germany and rerun diagnostics in the morning to confirm.

The BMW Live Cockpit of 20 minutes per update seems to imply that OS 7.0 architecture(both HW and SW?) has been made modular enough to not take overnight updates and testing.

At the same time, it also means OS 7.0 and beyond with built-in SIM probably follows Tesla too to collect reaps of data from users as part of neural net and data mining(and sent to BMW OTA real time), so customers need to be aware of that too.
I think that's a lot of wishful thinking that BMW will get into self-driving and AI in the manner Tesla has done. They aren't going to go from having software engineers that are unable to even make not-horrible lag-free responsive car computer interfaces to be suddenly experts in AI, and machine learning in a few years.

Software is extremely difficult - we can see for example that once the importance of software became the #1 defining competency of phones, only Silicon Valley players are left with phone OS (Apple & Google). It's extremely difficult for a mostly hardware manufacturer to gain core competency at software at the world level. Not saying it's impossible but no company comes to mind that has really done a transition here. Hardware companies such as Apple & Tesla are founded from the beginning to have the culture of software as an equivalent (if not greater) core competency. And thus are able to hire, retain and manage the best of these folks.

My bet is BMW will partner and utilize someone like Mobileeye which Tesla used for AutoPilot 1.0 before they went completely in-house.

Tesla, software and disruption: https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictev...and-disruption
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  #2199  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:00 PM
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No wishful thinking here, have zero interest in a self driving car. Very happy with a stone age, no nanny, manual shift, steer & brake car. Day to day its the most driven car I have.
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:12 PM
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No wishful thinking here, have zero interest in a self driving car. Very happy with a stone age, no nanny, manual shift, steer & brake car. Day to day its the most driven car I have.
My E36 325i is still that. Doesn't even have ABS I'll take it up to the track because it's light, easy to maintain, cheap if I make a mistake.

I was unsure of the autopilot thing, but now I see the real benefit. Let the computer do the driving you don't want (horrible rush hour or weekend traffic) and drive for the parts that are fun.
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