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E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #26  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:22 AM
lawlknight lawlknight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I lost track... Did you ever prove if the SCR cat was actually 'aftermarket'?
I have no way to prove it other than what the service adviser told me. The part had to be sent back to BMWNA so I never got to see it. The part was replaced for free under warranty and the check engine light stayed off for a couple thousand miles. It just ended up being a headache for getting approvals. NOx sensors ended up going bad too and those got replaced under warranty without any issues.
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:33 AM
sk72 sk72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Redleg88 View Post
Did the new cat work for you? I am having the same issue with mine. Thanks.

TL
They replaced the Cat as well as the Thermostat and reprogrammed the system. Its been more than 10 days with no CEL. I will attach the detailed work order tomorrow.
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:50 AM
lawlknight lawlknight is offline
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They replaced the Cat as well as the Thermostat and reprogrammed the system. Its been more than 10 days with no CEL. I will attach the detailed work order tomorrow.
Was that done under warranty? Hopefully if your NOx sensors go out they'll be under warranty as well. It was a ~$1400 service to replace the two sensors.
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:53 AM
sk72 sk72 is offline
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Originally Posted by lawlknight View Post
Was that done under warranty? Hopefully if your NOx sensors go out they'll be under warranty as well. It was a ~$1400 service to replace the two sensors.
All were done under warranty. These took me 3 long visits with a total of 10 days until they could pin-point the exact problem. My problem started with CEL on bad glow plug (Cylinder)....
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2016, 09:21 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawlknight View Post
I have no way to prove it other than what the service adviser told me. The part had to be sent back to BMWNA so I never got to see it. The part was replaced for free under warranty and the check engine light stayed off for a couple thousand miles. It just ended up being a headache for getting approvals. NOx sensors ended up going bad too and those got replaced under warranty without any issues.
1, would be the first time in history that bmwna warranted an aftermarket cat...

2. I do wonder about the thermostat being a root cause in many of theses cases... Multple other threads are finding that there is 'hidden' cool-running issues (bmw removed our temp gauges) that may lead to longer term fouling and other issues....
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  #31  
Old 10-31-2016, 09:45 AM
sk72 sk72 is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
2. I do wonder about the thermostat being a root cause in many of theses cases... Multple other threads are finding that there is 'hidden' cool-running issues (bmw removed our temp gauges) that may lead to longer term fouling and other issues....
I too have a feeling Thermostat is the reason behind all these issues..mainly not reaching to desired temperature.

Last edited by sk72; 10-31-2016 at 09:55 AM.
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  #32  
Old 10-31-2016, 10:28 AM
lawlknight lawlknight is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
1, would be the first time in history that bmwna warranted an aftermarket cat...

2. I do wonder about the thermostat being a root cause in many of theses cases... Multple other threads are finding that there is 'hidden' cool-running issues (bmw removed our temp gauges) that may lead to longer term fouling and other issues....
I bought the X5 a day or two before the CEL came on. They supposedly found it was aftermarket while they were doing their troubleshooting. They had already at that point ordered the new catalytic converter and needed to send the old part back to BMWNA. They said BMW of Tucson had to pay for the part because it was aftermarket. I personally don't care too much since it was covered under warranty. I also have a brand new catalytic converter and NOx sensors I don't need to worry about for a while.
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  #33  
Old 10-31-2016, 11:38 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by lawlknight View Post
I bought the X5 a day or two before the CEL came on. They supposedly found it was aftermarket while they were doing their troubleshooting. They had already at that point ordered the new catalytic converter and needed to send the old part back to BMWNA. They said BMW of Tucson had to pay for the part because it was aftermarket. I personally don't care too much since it was covered under warranty. I also have a brand new catalytic converter and NOx sensors I don't need to worry about for a while.
You may be correct with this. Id forgotten about that aspect of the story.

Agree that the best part is having it fixed!
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #34  
Old 10-31-2016, 02:55 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
1, would be the first time in history that bmwna warranted an aftermarket cat...

2. I do wonder about the thermostat being a root cause in many of theses cases... Multple other threads are finding that there is 'hidden' cool-running issues (bmw removed our temp gauges) that may lead to longer term fouling and other issues....
If oil temperature is stable I am not sure how thermostat will affect this unless we are talking DPF not going into regen.
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  #35  
Old 10-31-2016, 03:00 PM
lawlknight lawlknight is offline
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I bought myself a pretty nice OBDII scanner that will show live data including engine temperature. Should I watch that and see what the temperature gets up to during a drive? And what would I need to be looking for?
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  #36  
Old 10-31-2016, 04:15 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by lawlknight View Post
I bought myself a pretty nice OBDII scanner that will show live data including engine temperature. Should I watch that and see what the temperature gets up to during a drive? And what would I need to be looking for?
Coolant temperature has to be around 88, sometimes higher if DPF regen. is going on or you are pushing car hard. Sometimes I push coolant temp. to 99-100c.
Oil temperature is around 70c during light driving and can go to 100c+ if you push car.
If coolant temp. is in 70's you have bad thermostat. if it is in low 80's your thermostat is failing, but you can still avoid changing it. Once coolant temp. drops too much, it will influence oil temperature since 1. it will cool off engine too much, 2. it will cool oil too much through heat exchanger.
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  #37  
Old 10-31-2016, 04:21 PM
lawlknight lawlknight is offline
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Coolant temperature has to be around 88, sometimes higher if DPF regen. is going on or you are pushing car hard. Sometimes I push coolant temp. to 99-100c.
Oil temperature is around 70c during light driving and can go to 100c+ if you push car.
If coolant temp. is in 70's you have bad thermostat. if it is in low 80's your thermostat is failing, but you can still avoid changing it. Once coolant temp. drops too much, it will influence oil temperature since 1. it will cool off engine too much, 2. it will cool oil too much through heat exchanger.
I'll hook up the scan tool tomorrow and take a look at the numbers on my way to work (when I'm at red lights and such).
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  #38  
Old 10-31-2016, 04:39 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by lawlknight View Post
I'll hook up the scan tool tomorrow and take a look at the numbers on my way to work (when I'm at red lights and such).
In LV you might see bit higher oil. temperatures. Thermostat should hover between 87-92 in normal drive. On HWY on 215 or 15 in free flow traffic it should be between 88-90. Now You might see spike in temperature, and that would be DPF regeneration going on.
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  #39  
Old 12-24-2016, 12:13 PM
pjohanss pjohanss is offline
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I have a 2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d with 68k miles.

Around 67k miles I got the P20EE error code and CEL.
Brought in to Irvine BMW and they stated that the camshaft sensor needed replacement. Found that strange but paid the $600 with the assumption that they are the experts and know what it is wrong.
Got the car back and after 100 miles the CEL was back.
Brought the car back and this time they stated that the SCR metering sensor needed replacement. Not covered by warranty according to SA and I had to fork out another $500.
Another 200 miles and the CEL is back, the only code I have seen wth the ODBII is the P20EE.
Bringing in the car o Monday again but hope to better prepared this time and hopefully get some feedback from users in this forum.

What I have gathered is that both NOx sensors as well as the catalytic converter might need to be replaced.

SIB's, recalls or other advice greatly appreciated.

Per
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  #40  
Old 12-24-2016, 12:39 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by pjohanss View Post
I have a 2012 BMW X5 xDrive35d with 68k miles.

Around 67k miles I got the P20EE error code and CEL.
Brought in to Irvine BMW and they stated that the camshaft sensor needed replacement. Found that strange but paid the $600 with the assumption that they are the experts and know what it is wrong.
Got the car back and after 100 miles the CEL was back.
Brought the car back and this time they stated that the SCR metering sensor needed replacement. Not covered by warranty according to SA and I had to fork out another $500.
Another 200 miles and the CEL is back, the only code I have seen wth the ODBII is the P20EE.
Bringing in the car o Monday again but hope to better prepared this time and hopefully get some feedback from users in this forum.

What I have gathered is that both NOx sensors as well as the catalytic converter might need to be replaced.

SIB's, recalls or other advice greatly appreciated.

Per
Emission system should be covered by CA emission warranty (I think 7/80,000).
By the way, they are throwing money at problem (your money) until they find what it is it.
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  #41  
Old 12-24-2016, 12:50 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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Demand the appropriate Test Plan execution and documented to differentiate among the potential causes of the errors. Yep, they're throwing your money at Xmas bonuses.
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  #42  
Old 12-24-2016, 01:02 PM
pjohanss pjohanss is offline
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Done some digging and found out that the warranty for some emission parts like the SCR ACTIVE TANK. See Sl B01 23 16 for more info.There is also repay program for anyone that has paid for that replacement. These are not the components they replaced for me so I guess that money is gone.
This information will for sure come handy speaking to the SA on Monday.
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  #43  
Old 12-24-2016, 01:27 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by pjohanss View Post
Done some digging and found out that the warranty for some emission parts like the SCR ACTIVE TANK. See Sl B01 23 16 for more info.There is also repay program for anyone that has paid for that replacement. These are not the components they replaced for me so I guess that money is gone.
This information will for sure come handy speaking to the SA on Monday.
Wait, they changed stuff that was OK. Tell them to put old stuff back or reimburse you.
They can change like that every part in emission system until they yell: aha, we have a winner.
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  #44  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:49 PM
ingenieur ingenieur is offline
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Cam sensor - really? Post all of the BMW codes. Agree with edycol - reimburse for the incorrect repairs. Pay for only what is not covered under the emission warranty - read your warranty booklet!
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  #45  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:54 PM
pjohanss pjohanss is offline
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Cam sensor - really? Post all of the BMW codes. Agree with edycol - reimburse for the incorrect repairs. Pay for only what is not covered under the emission warranty - read your warranty booklet!
There is no doubt that I have been paid more than I should have.
This is slightly different subject but I am going to have them keep the car until the airbag is replaced (SI B65 04 16) which is a safety recall.
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  #46  
Old 06-14-2019, 04:37 AM
nilesh nilesh is offline
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Just for documentation purposes:

Nov 2018: Bought used 2012 E70 35D @ 84K. No CEL. Passed BMW Multi-point inspection.
Mar 2019: CEL
Apr 2019: During recall fixes, BMW replaced both NOX under warranty. Diagnosis, parts and labor: all covered under warranty

May/June 2019: Failed Massachusetts inspections due to P20EE and 4D16 code. BMW does test plan. Bad thermostat. Quotes $ 997.00

Wondering why thermostat is not part of California emissions warranty. Clearly, without it I am not getting a sticker.

Anyway, have asked SA to document it and inquire later with BMWNA.

Question: Price is outrageous, and with help of forum, newts service manual, videos and some help from friends, we could theoretically do it ourselves. But then, not sure how it affects my future warranties. I am looking at the active DEF tank bomb coming my way.

Suggestions welcome.
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  #47  
Old 06-14-2019, 04:41 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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My first preemptive maintenance, not emergent and not repair, was to have the thermostat replaced. Total $560.

The piece costs about $100. The labor cost is first determined by your location.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 06-14-2019 at 04:45 AM.
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  #48  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:33 AM
X5-User X5-User is offline
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Interesting...thermostat is the major cause of these issues??!! I didn't realize that thermostat is that important on diesel. In gas engines, it wont hurt anything I guess except mpg.

Gosh...why BMW removed the coolant gauge on the cluster. Or didn't put a sensor next to thermostat to through a code when the mechanical thermostat is not functioning properly like BMW e90 M3 does?
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  #49  
Old 06-14-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by X5-User View Post
Gosh...why BMW removed the coolant gauge on the cluster. Or didn't put a sensor next to thermostat to through a code when the mechanical thermostat is not functioning properly like BMW e90 M3 does?
How about some details of your conclusion. I looked and found nothing apropos.

I did find E90 assembly Y410 Gun Mount Magnet that may solve an issue of mine.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #50  
Old 06-14-2019, 10:28 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilesh View Post
Just for documentation purposes:

Nov 2018: Bought used 2012 E70 35D @ 84K. No CEL. Passed BMW Multi-point inspection.
Mar 2019: CEL
Apr 2019: During recall fixes, BMW replaced both NOX under warranty. Diagnosis, parts and labor: all covered under warranty

May/June 2019: Failed Massachusetts inspections due to P20EE and 4D16 code. BMW does test plan. Bad thermostat. Quotes $ 997.00

Wondering why thermostat is not part of California emissions warranty. Clearly, without it I am not getting a sticker.

Anyway, have asked SA to document it and inquire later with BMWNA.

Question: Price is outrageous, and with help of forum, newts service manual, videos and some help from friends, we could theoretically do it ourselves. But then, not sure how it affects my future warranties. I am looking at the active DEF tank bomb coming my way.

Suggestions welcome.
1. "multi" point inspection? Big LOL there...

2. There are a TON of parts not covered under the CA warranty. The CA warranty (past year 2) is not "all parts needed to pass inspection"..far from it

3. You have a 2012. It is 7+ years old. What 'future warranty' are you concerned about????? Just have the work done right.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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