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Old 06-24-2019, 04:20 PM
psdl psdl is offline
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Updated all ECUs - NBT not loading maps. Please help !

Hello,

i updated all ECUs with E-SYS 3.33 and PSDZ 4.17.13 to I-Step 19-03-552 for my I001 (i3S).
Now i have the problem that my NBT is working but the Navigation won't start. The screen always displays "loading" and when i put in an usb Stick with new maps from BMW-Download Manager for my car it says: "Connect USB-Device with correct unlock code".

Can anybody help me what i have to do ? I used E-Sys without EST token.

Any help is appreciated.

Peter
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2019, 09:18 PM
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NBT or NBT2?
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  #3  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:14 AM
psdl psdl is offline
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Hello Shawn,

it is an NBT2.
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:01 AM
weebyx weebyx is offline
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Originally Posted by psdl View Post
Hello Shawn,

it is an NBT2.
Have you checked the FSC status for the NBT2 ? Is your car bought with 609 navi, or is it retrofit with fake FSC codes ?

/Weebyx
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  #5  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:02 AM
psdl psdl is offline
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No it is an original NBT2. Bought the car new from the BMW Dealer with 0 miles!


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Old 06-25-2019, 02:37 AM
weebyx weebyx is offline
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No it is an original NBT2. Bought the car new from the BMW Dealer with 0 miles!


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I must say, I dont really know how E-Sys handles FSC codes(which are codes that enables features), when doing an update. If it has just updated your NBT2 without first saving the FSC codes(which might be possible), then the navigation will not start because the FSC is missing.

You can check the FSC status with E-sys under the Comfort mode tab. You can then paste the result in here, then it is easy to see if FSC's are ok for navigation and voicecontrol(which I guess does not work either?)

/Weebyx
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  #7  
Old 06-25-2019, 02:56 AM
psdl psdl is offline
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I think you are right. Speech recognition wasn't also working. I will head to my car and report back with the readings.

Update: Here it is:

--> Status von "3" Steuergerät(en) gelesen <--

EPS[DiagAddress=48(0x30)]
WBY8P610907D00290
RootCertStatus not available
SWSigStatus accepted
SWTApplications
----------
AppID 189(0xBD)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus not available

HU_NBT2[DiagAddress=99(0x63)]
WBY8P610907D00290
RootCertStatus not available
SWSigStatus accepted
SWTApplications
----------
AppID 158(0x9E)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 160(0xA0)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 368(0x170)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 111(0x6F)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 159(0x9F)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 156(0x9C)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 229(0xE5)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 288(0x120)
UpgradeIndex 61(0x3D)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 323(0x143)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 366(0x16E)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 367(0x16F)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available

KAFAS2[DiagAddress=93(0x5D)]
WBY8P610907D00290
RootCertStatus not available
SWSigStatus accepted
SWTApplications
----------
AppID 126(0x7E)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 190(0xBE)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus not available
----------
AppID 191(0xBF)
UpgradeIndex 1(0x01)
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus not available

Last edited by psdl; 06-25-2019 at 03:57 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psdl View Post
I think you are right. Speech recognition wasn't also working. I will head to my car and report back with the readings.

Update: Here it is:

--> Status von "3" Steuergerät(en) gelesen <--
Flashing ECU has no affect on FSC Codes, yet all your FSC Codes are Rejected.

It is clear that you have loaded a set of Fake FSC Codes into your head unit, else you would not have E5, 6F, and 143 FSC Codes.

PM sent.
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Last edited by shawnsheridan; 06-25-2019 at 05:31 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:41 AM
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Mmmh. I see.

E5 - M Lap Timer
6F - Satellite Tuner
143 - Apple Car Play

I know why i have these codes in my Headunit. I used FemtoEVO before to activate Full Screen Apple Car Play. My guess is, FemtoEVO coded them into my NBT2.

Beside that, my NBT2 is working again. I used FemtoEVO to activate all my FSCs. Everything is fine, but i think FemtoEVO made weired changes to my headunit.

Last edited by psdl; 06-25-2019 at 05:44 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:54 AM
weebyx weebyx is offline
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Originally Posted by psdl View Post
Mmmh. I see.

E5 - M Lap Timer
6F - Satellite Tuner
143 - Apple Car Play

I know why i have these codes in my Headunit. I used FemtoEVO before to activate Full Screen Apple Car Play. My guess is, FemtoEVO coded them into my NBT2.

Beside that, my NBT2 is working again. I used FemtoEVO to activate all my FSCs. Everything is fine, but i think FemtoEVO made weired changes to my headunit.
My guess is that for FemtoEVO to activate carplay and others, it needs to change the rootcertificate in the NBT to accept the self signed certificates, and therefore also needs to load the fake FSC's for navi and speach, and that is why they do not work anymore. If you take you car to the dealer, and have them update the car next time, your navi and other original stuff will work with original BMW FSC codes, but carplay will not work until you do FemtoEVO magic again

/Weebyx
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  #11  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:00 AM
psdl psdl is offline
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Thanks for your explanation. That was also my guess.

The RootCertificate/Private Key can only be set by BMW itself ? Or is it leaked anywhere, so i can reset my HU myself?
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weebyx View Post
My guess is that for FemtoEVO to activate carplay and others, it needs to change the rootcertificate in the NBT to accept the self signed certificates, and therefore also needs to load the fake FSC's for navi and speach, and that is why they do not work anymore. If you take you car to the dealer, and have them update the car next time, your navi and other original stuff will work with original BMW FSC codes, but carplay will not work until you do FemtoEVO magic again

/Weebyx
That's mostly correct. FemtoEVO patched Root Certificate and loaded Fake FSC Codes. Programming ECU removed patch, so ECU was left with mismatched OEM Root Certificate and Fake FSC Codes, thus they are all rejected. Rerunning FemtoEVO reapplied Root Certificate, and Fake FSC Codes then accepted again.

In case of dealer programming though, the very same thing will occur. Since programming does NOT also restore the original FSC Codes, all FSC Codes will be Rejected, not just 143 CarPlay. If one is lucky, it will go unnoticed by dealer, and you can get car back and run FemtoEVO to reapply Root Certificate. If unlucky, they will notice, open PUMA Case, Void Warranty, and bill you about $5k USD to replace "defective" Head Unit.
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:00 AM
psdl psdl is offline
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That will be fun...


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  #14  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:15 AM
psdl psdl is offline
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I will write the guys from FemtoEVO if they can set the original FSCs and the RootCert. I don‘t think the Software deletes it but makes a copy.


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Old 06-25-2019, 11:43 AM
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I will write the guys from FemtoEVO if they can set the original FSCs and the RootCert. I don‘t think the Software deletes it but makes a copy.

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RootCert is easily obtained, it's just a matter of putting it back when car needs service.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:49 PM
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RootCert is easily obtained, it's just a matter of putting it back when car needs service.
Quick one, did BMW not update the latest software with a mechanism to block false self signed certificates? Loading the fake ones will result in the same issue as you run the latest software version. Also how do you clean the blocked certificates? You need telnet to do a persistent state cleansing with tool32 as status is rejected and the fake FSC will be newer then the original set so how do you overwrite? Interesting to learn how you resolve.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:28 PM
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Before that i had an Audi A5. To do a little fiddling i opened up the Headunit and mounted the harddrive under Linux. The OS was a qnx and if i get access to the filesystem it is easy to generate public and private keys if i find the root cert. But i am happy it is running now. So.

But if somebody could shade a bit of light in using e-sys or other BMW tools to do the job (ista / Rheingold) that would be fine...

Last edited by psdl; 06-25-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:44 PM
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So i was talking to the guys from FemtoEVO and they said "Component Protection" is active. They have a routine to make it reversible with the Backup Files from the App. So they made the thoughts i didn't when updating !
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamaker View Post
Quick one, did BMW not update the latest software with a mechanism to block false self signed certificates? Loading the fake ones will result in the same issue as you run the latest software version. Also how do you clean the blocked certificates? You need telnet to do a persistent state cleansing with tool32 as status is rejected and the fake FSC will be newer then the original set so how do you overwrite? Interesting to learn how you resolve.
Beginning with 18-11-xxx, they blocked loading .bin files via USB, which was how they used to deliver patch and Fake FSC Codes. Developers now have moved on and have new means to deliver via ENET Cable.

To restore NBT2 to factory condition, typically one would use Tool32 special .prg to Clear v850 and Delete FSC Codes, and then flash NBT2 and reload OEM FSC Codes.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:51 PM
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So i was talking to the guys from FemtoEVO and they said "Component Protection" is active. They have a routine to make it reversible with the Backup Files from the App. So they made the thoughts i didn't when updating !
Yeah, well CP is a whole other issue altogether, unrelated to Root Cert / FSC Code mismatch. CP is usually resolved with fake 170 FSC Code.
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  #21  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:57 PM
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Thats' s what she said...

Thanks Shawn for your help and engagemant. You really do know alot. FemtoEVO is writing a 170 FSC Code. I have a file for FemtoEVO (FSC_7D00290_0170007F.fsc) - thats exactly what it's used for.

I am impressed.

Interesting - but a pain in the ass to cope with these DRM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:59 PM
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Thats' s what she said...

Thanks Shawn for your help and engagemant. You really do know alot. FemtoEVO is writing a 170 FSC Code. I have a file for FemtoEVO (FSC_7D00290_0170007F.fsc) - thats exactly what it's used for.

I am impressed.

Interesting - but a pain in the ass to cope with these DRM.
Indeed it is.
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  #23  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:45 PM
weebyx weebyx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
That's mostly correct. FemtoEVO patched Root Certificate and loaded Fake FSC Codes. Programming ECU removed patch, so ECU was left with mismatched OEM Root Certificate and Fake FSC Codes, thus they are all rejected. Rerunning FemtoEVO reapplied Root Certificate, and Fake FSC Codes then accepted again.

In case of dealer programming though, the very same thing will occur. Since programming does NOT also restore the original FSC Codes, all FSC Codes will be Rejected, not just 143 CarPlay. If one is lucky, it will go unnoticed by dealer, and you can get car back and run FemtoEVO to reapply Root Certificate. If unlucky, they will notice, open PUMA Case, Void Warranty, and bill you about $5k USD to replace "defective" Head Unit.
I am also running fake FSC's and patched headunit. After all the retrofits I have done, I got them to do a complete I-step upgrade, and all went well, but off course with rejected FSC's. I told them before they did the update, that they should ignore not working navi and speech after update. They did

But, they phoned me just after ISTA was done, and told me that ISTA asked "if it should download activation codes for navi and speech for a fee", I just told them no and got the headunit patched again.


What would have happened if I had let them do that ? Would ISTA then have requested automatic generated FSC's and installed them in the headunit, overwriting the fake ones ?

/Weebyx
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:50 PM
weebyx weebyx is offline
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Yeah, well CP is a whole other issue altogether, unrelated to Root Cert / FSC Code mismatch. CP is usually resolved with fake 170 FSC Code.
I wonder why CP can be active on a car with stock original headunit ? Can CP kick in by fiddling with FSC's ?

/Weebyx
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  #25  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:51 AM
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...What would have happened if I had let them do that ? Would ISTA then have requested automatic generated FSC's and installed them in the headunit, overwriting the fake ones ?

/Weebyx
No idea. I only hear of people getting PUMA Case opened, and new NBT2 pushed on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weebyx View Post
I wonder why CP can be active on a car with stock original headunit ? Can CP kick in by fiddling with FSC's ?

/Weebyx
As for CP, it is triggered only when there is VIN mismatch between HU_NBT2 and BDC_BODY. So, importing FSC with VIN different than Car VIN would trigger CP; however, there is no indication OP did such a thing, so I doubt car was CP Triggered.
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