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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #51  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:48 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Do you mean like from a newer mode? No I haven't because of the possible incompatibility and different ways of communicating with the control units.

From my understanding CVBS and FBAS is the exact same FBAS is just the German word for it. But I have never heard of a 3 wire composite signal unless mabey balanced signaling.

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Thanks.
My googling gave me the same understanding that FBAS is same as CVBS just in german
But why then FBAS video outputs on newer models have 3 wires? Signal (or +), ground (or -) and screen? Instead of 2 ground and screen?

Ivo

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  #52  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:24 AM
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Thanks.
My googling gave me the same understanding that FBAS is same as CVBS just in german
But why then FBAS video outputs on newer models have 3 wires? Signal (or +), ground (or -) and screen? Instead of 2 ground and screen?

Ivo

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"image information is transmitted via CVBS signals (Colour Video Blanking Signal). The Colour Video Blanking Signal (CVBS) transmits colour and brightness components and synchronisation pulses via the DIDIFFERENTIAL SIGNAL LINE (CVBS+, CVBS-) to the video switch." Found in TIS for the F01.

I suppose this is to eliminate disruption (noice) on the signals like balanced XLR connections or lvds do. This is also done in the logic 7 amplifier to the left and right signals for the two basses only for some reason. (Signal - , signal +) and ground. So I guess that you could leave the negative wire hanging but you would loose half the signal.

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  #53  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:03 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
"image information is transmitted via CVBS signals (Colour Video Blanking Signal). The Colour Video Blanking Signal (CVBS) transmits colour and brightness components and synchronisation pulses via the DIDIFFERENTIAL SIGNAL LINE (CVBS+, CVBS-) to the video switch." Found in TIS for the F01.

I suppose this is to eliminate disruption (noice) on the signals like balanced XLR connections or lvds do. This is also done in the logic 7 amplifier to the left and right signals for the two basses only for some reason. (Signal - , signal +) and ground. So I guess that you could leave the negative wire hanging but you would loose half the signal.

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What if connect them together, ie +and -.?
Probably a dummy question.


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  #54  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:18 AM
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They would equal 0 and you would get nothing.
but if I remember correctly then negative and ground can be connected together but can also be bad for something (can't seem to remember why). Or you could connect negative to the ground connection but you would introduce a lot of interference when it is not grounded correctly.

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  #55  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:37 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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They would equal 0 and you would get nothing.
but if I remember correctly then negative and ground can be connected together but can also be bad for something (can't seem to remember why). Or you could connect negative to the ground connection but you would introduce a lot of interference when it is not grounded correctly.

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Thanks. I will try someday...

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  #56  
Old 11-29-2018, 08:56 AM
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Thanks. I will try someday...

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Okay but don't quote me on that one as I have never tried any of it so I don't take any responsibility if anything breaks.

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  #57  
Old 11-29-2018, 09:02 PM
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Okay but don't quote me on that one as I have never tried any of it so I don't take any responsibility if anything breaks.

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Sure, don't worry of course.
It depends though from the results...

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  #58  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:47 AM
realmasterd realmasterd is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Hi I have been

Where I found the Pin assignment for connector X18804, 18-pin. There there appear to be video inputs on
- DVD Changer (pins 3 & 11)
- Night Vision (pins 1 & 10)
- Aux (pins 8 & 17) pin 8: FBAS (Composite video) signal from external video source (via AUX-in connection)
pin 17: FBAS wire earth for external video source (via AUX-in connection)

The only pinns that seem to be used in my car are the ones for the navigation and the DVD-Changer.

The only mention of this that I can find on the web is in this thread: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=563704
Where It was not awnsered if one can connect an external video source to it.

So my question is if ANYONE know if it's possible to use it and if so if there is any coding required do do so?
Hello,
anyone maybe a new information how to get Pin 8+17 as Video Input active?

Best regards

Last edited by realmasterd; 12-09-2018 at 11:02 AM.
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  #59  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:25 AM
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Hello,
anyone maybe a new information how to get Pin 8+17 as Video Input active?

Best regards
No nothing yet. Although I haven't stopped working on this. I have been looking at the software code in the MMI but haven't been able to find anything useful although I don't know much about decompilation of the processes. And I don't know if I have to look in the VM or the MMI or both. I guess that the VM itself is able to switch to that input but I doubt that the MMI is coded for it. And even less likely that we will be able to see AV1 as an option in the entertainment section. Maby possibly under AUX menu but that seems unlikely.

So unless we can get help from a real "hacker" to reverse engineer the software and add the code it seems like this way is far away.

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  #60  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:38 PM
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Progression?

I took the VM abart to see if I could find anything and from what I have found it seems like all of the input even the unused are wired up internally in the vm including the aux in. All the separate channels (cvbs) aux, night-vision, DVD, (rgb front nav) red, gren, blue and sync are all fed to separate inputs on the two MAX4020 EEE chips

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which I don't quite understand their purpose if it is used as a switch or an amplifier for the signals?

Aux in (pin 8) seem to go to pin 3 on the upper (far away) chip in my picture

And where those go after that I haven't been able to figure out yet (night time here) because each chip have 4 different outputs too and I am really bad at tracing the signal path on pcb's. I will continue looking tomorrow.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MAX4012-MAX4020-55585.pdf (811.4 KB, 24 views)

Last edited by vibbelito; 12-11-2018 at 03:44 PM.
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  #61  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:24 PM
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Yep they are fed from the inputs to the MAX4020EEE chips which are amplifying the signals (I think) and then they are routed to these pins
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I haven't looked much at it but at least the cvbs output from the SAF7129AH chip that I think is responsible for encoding and converting the analog and digital TV pictures and teletext to rgb or cvbs and then sending it to those pins
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that is connected to a riser board I have only found the cvbs connections from it though.

At the riser board there are 2 (I think since it's hard to see) or at least one of these video switch and converter chips. VDP 3134Y

I guess that one chip is for the front display and the other for the rear display and that all signals are split somewhere?

THIS is what we have been looking for I hope..

I just can't find in the datasheet of when and how it switches inputs. Don't know if I'm looking for the wrong things?

It has 7 inputs 4 of them is CVBS inputs and two are rgb. So all the 3 cvbs inputs to the VM including the aux in that have never been used is in fact wired up and is probably just awaiting the command to switch the inputs.
So it all seems to be a software limitation which is good.

From there the separate rgb outputs for both the front and rear display is connected from the pins there to the output pins of the VM
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The capabilities and the complexity of all these chips and systems after reading up on all the components is really impressive to say the least.

So if someone is better at reading data sheets please point me in the right direction as to how it switches the inputs.
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File Type: pdf VDP3134Y.pdf (1.14 MB, 29 views)
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  #62  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:41 PM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Yep they are fed from the inputs to the MAX4020EEE chips which are amplifying the signals (I think) and then they are routed to these pins
Attachment 831727
I haven't looked much at it but at least the cvbs output from the SAF7129AH chip that I think is responsible for encoding and converting the analog and digital TV pictures and teletext to rgb or cvbs and then sending it to those pins
Attachment 831741
that is connected to a riser board I have only found the cvbs connections from it though.

At the riser board there are 2 (I think since it's hard to see) or at least one of these video switch and converter chips. VDP 3134Y

I guess that one chip is for the front display and the other for the rear display and that all signals are split somewhere?

THIS is what we have been looking for I hope..

I just can't find in the datasheet of when and how it switches inputs. Don't know if I'm looking for the wrong things?

It has 7 inputs 4 of them is CVBS inputs and two are rgb. So all the 3 cvbs inputs to the VM including the aux in that have never been used is in fact wired up and is probably just awaiting the command to switch the inputs.
So it all seems to be a software limitation which is good.

From there the separate rgb outputs for both the front and rear display is connected from the pins there to the output pins of the VM
Attachment 831739


The capabilities and the complexity of all these chips and systems after reading up on all the components is really impressive to say the least.

So if someone is better at reading data sheets please point me in the right direction as to how it switches the inputs.
It's great how You are breaking through

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  #63  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:22 AM
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I Think this is it. What's making it switch inputs. FP subaddress (hex) 21. Bit[1:0]

00 VIN1

01 VIN2

10 VIN3

11 VIN4

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So if we could just build an i2c interface we could try and write to that registry and see if success or not. Probably we will have to write some more commands to make it output the video on the rgb line but who knows.
Also just switching Input probably doesn't magically make it show on the idrive display. We might still have to be in a menu that already takes the video from the VM like TV, DVD, nightvission or GPS.

But now we can at least try and see what happens and decide the next move from there.

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  #64  
Old 12-16-2018, 01:44 PM
realmasterd realmasterd is offline
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(sorry for my bad english)

i have try some codings in the mmi but nothing works.


maybe another option:
the videomodul we can not use in germany because the dvbt is not more sending channels.

can we "bridge" (add) a cinch cable (sound+picture) to use the output of the videomoul (TV menu in Display).

or maybe the DVD option?
to get picture over DVD (pin 3+11) is easy, but how we can get sound?
is there a option to bridge the DVD Player for sound?

i hope you understand what i meen.

thanks and best regards
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  #65  
Old 12-17-2018, 12:42 AM
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(sorry for my bad english)

i have try some codings in the mmi but nothing works.


maybe another option:
the videomodul we can not use in germany because the dvbt is not more sending channels.

can we "bridge" (add) a cinch cable (sound+picture) to use the output of the videomoul (TV menu in Display).

or maybe the DVD option?
to get picture over DVD (pin 3+11) is easy, but how we can get sound?
is there a option to bridge the DVD Player for sound?

i hope you understand what i meen.

thanks and best regards

I Think i understand what you try to accomplish and since you mentioned dvb-t I guess that you ether have the "hybrid" video module or the "hybrid drive" VM. Also depending on your other equipment (GPS, NIVI, DVD and res) you will have different wiring.

Read this also: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...php?p=12840141

Ether way this is just my (educated) guesses.

Sound: yes I think this is possible but I think you have to turn of the digital part of the tuner (but not sure might work either way) (coding the mmi) and only use the analog to get it to work. At least in my hybrid drive tuner I have this analog to digital sound converter

[IMG][/IMG]
Smaller chip in upper left corner

which I think takes the analog sound from the two demodulater chips beneath it (they have lots of other features but I haven't looked much in to if any are used or not)

I think the UDA1361T is only wired for mono sound though. Because analog TV is only mono but haven't investigated further if that is correct. So connecting left channel aux to pin 1 (left in), connect right channel aux to pin 3 (right in) and ground to pin 15 (analog ground) or possibly any ground on the board.
NOTE: I don't know if any additional components are needed such as resistors or something.
And then you should have sound when you switch to TV

Side note: This VM also have a digital to analog sound converter CS4344B which I don't understand why it has? If it for some reason first takes the digital TV sound and makes it analog stereo to be able to feed it to the 1361T to make it digital again. More research needed.

Picture: Way 1 (easy) if the tuner is simply connected to the GPS unit with a CVBS connection (yellow plug on many tvs) you just switch the input with your own source and done!

Picture: way 2. (Hard) If you have rear entertainment system like I have it's much more complicated and I am not entirely sure how it is wired internally but I hope that the tuner is connected to the video splitter/switch with a cvbs connection and not an rgb connection but I can't guarantee it is this way.

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This cvbs connection comes from the TV part but don't know yet if it's the digital part or analog or if it'seven used. Ether way if you were to desolder this leg and connect your own source here it's possible that you will get picture to both front and rear screens when selecting TV (you might get ether picture or sound if unlucky and both picture and sound if lucky)

You should also read this thread from when stuart did this mod to the analog tuner https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...php?p=12840141

I hope this help shed some light on this subject. Please let us know if you will try this and if you get it to work somehow.

OBS!!! Do note that this has never been tested on the digital tuner (as far as I know) so it's highly experimental and nothing can be guaranteed so don't blame me if anything breaks.

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Last edited by vibbelito; 12-17-2018 at 12:51 AM.
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  #66  
Old 12-17-2018, 12:23 PM
realmasterd realmasterd is offline
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Thanks for the Information!

Here more Information from my E66 LCI, i have: VM Hybride Drive with Rear Display and DVD Changer.

Seens like part2 (Hard) for picture is needed.
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  #67  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:15 PM
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Thanks for the Information!

Here more Information from my E66 LCI, i have: VM Hybride Drive with Rear Display and DVD Changer.

Seens like part2 (Hard) for picture is needed.
This thread should be retitled to reverse engineering the whole damn infotainment system xD

Okay that's too bad. But if you're willing to try the theory it would be interesting.

Some day when I have the time I'm gonna investigate further how the TV picture is transmitted to the final switch/output stage and if it's rgb or cvbs (FBAS)

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  #68  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:32 PM
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I'm currently looking at the idrive computer/ screen to figure out how it switches from the internal picture ie. The menus to the rgb input from the VM and simultaneously overlays the menus.

I've got lots more pictures of all the details/components so just t me know if someone would be interested. And the same goes for all the other modules.Click image for larger version

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  #69  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:39 PM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
I'm currently looking at the idrive computer/ screen to figure out how it switches from the internal picture ie. The menus to the rgb input from the VM and simultaneously overlays the menus.

I've got lots more pictures of all the details/components so just t me know if someone would be interested. And the same goes for all the other modules.Attachment 832481Attachment 832483Attachment 832485Attachment 832487Attachment 832489

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Thumbs up.
In that case there is also possibility to connect also a video mirroring device maybe directly to the screen/MMI, avoiding the VM.
In case, I have my old MMI (although pre-facelifted; and video was flickering causing to have it exchanged), which I can open and dismantle for experimenting... just give me a note


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Old 12-19-2018, 01:05 AM
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Thumbs up.
In that case there is also possibility to connect also a video mirroring device maybe directly to the screen/MMI, avoiding the VM.
In case, I have my old MMI (although pre-facelifted; and video was flickering causing to have it exchanged), which I can open and dismantle for experimenting... just give me a note


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Just to clarify one thing that I forgot to mention. This is the rear idrive computer (fond_mmi) so it's not exactly the same as the front mmi but should be pretty similar and easier to get out and why I removed this instead.

If you just want to bypass the VM and all that altogether you can just install one of those navtv units that connects to the analog rgb input of the mmi.

If it's still "functional" although flickering you could try to attach a jtag debugger to it or whatever interface the used during testing and see what we can get out of it and possibly send commands directly to the processor.
And then one of the best things to do would be to read out the entire EEPROM(s) the storage where the operating system is stored with all coding and so forth. But I don't know if the ships would have to be desolderd and put in a separate reader for that to be possible. Then we could disassemble/decompile the code and figure out how exactly it works and possibly change it to customize the idrive to add the missing features.

I would do this to my own but I'm to scared of breaking it

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  #71  
Old 12-19-2018, 01:24 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Just to clarify one thing that I forgot to mention. This is the rear idrive computer (fond_mmi) so it's not exactly the same as the front mmi but should be pretty similar and easier to get out and why I removed this instead.

If you just want to bypass the VM and all that altogether you can just install one of those navtv units that connects to the analog rgb input of the mmi.

If it's still "functional" although flickering you could try to attach a jtag debugger to it or whatever interface the used during testing and see what we can get out of it and possibly send commands directly to the processor.
And then one of the best things to do would be to read out the entire EEPROM(s) the storage where the operating system is stored with all coding and so forth. But I don't know if the ships would have to be desolderd and put in a separate reader for that to be possible. Then we could disassemble/decompile the code and figure out how exactly it works and possibly change it to customize the idrive to add the missing features.

I would do this to my own but I'm to scared of breaking it

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Oh yes, rear MMI is different.
I don't know but I am pretty sure that without de-soldering of a chip it wouldn't be possible to read it out. Once I was trying to read eeprom from a KOMBi with SOCI8 clamp. Without unsoldering it was not possible.
Although if You could send me a picture of which is that eeprom exactly, I could try at least to read it out. Just know that I have an 8pin clamp. If that eeprom has different configuration and pins, then I'd have to donate the MMI and unsolder it.
Please let me know.

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  #72  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:39 AM
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Oh yes, rear MMI is different.
I don't know but I am pretty sure that without de-soldering of a chip it wouldn't be possible to read it out. Once I was trying to read eeprom from a KOMBi with SOCI8 clamp. Without unsoldering it was not possible.
Although if You could send me a picture of which is that eeprom exactly, I could try at least to read it out. Just know that I have an 8pin clamp. If that eeprom has different configuration and pins, then I'd have to donate the MMI and unsolder it.
Please let me know.

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It would be these 2 located under the renesas/Hitachi processor. This is a picture from the xolmatic web page of the pre facelift mmi. Even if the brand isn't the same in yours it should still be the same and in the same placeClick image for larger version

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Attached spechsheet of these also
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MBM29DL323BD-90-Fujitsu.pdf (1.58 MB, 26 views)
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  #73  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:44 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
It would be these 2 located under the renesas/Hitachi processor. This is a picture from the xolmatic web page of the pre facelift mmi. Even if the brand isn't the same in yours it should still be the same and in the same placeAttachment 832497
Attached spechsheet of these also
I have to look whether I'd have a 48pin reader...
Looks rather complicated

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  #74  
Old 12-21-2018, 12:21 PM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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After learning to use kali linux and binwalk I can say that i have now been able to read the contents of the .0po files! And have extracted the newest one from the mmigt8 folder so now the idrive file system is somewhat open and we can see what hides inside and possibly even change the interface languages if we want.

I can also possibly confirm that the idrive is not Windows CE but rather VXworks wind kernel version 2.5 the same OS used in all other bmw idrive systemsClick image for larger version

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  #75  
Old 12-21-2018, 01:03 PM
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vibbelito vibbelito is offline
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How it sets up connection to night vision camera with different configurationsClick image for larger version

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ID:	832915

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