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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #201  
Old 07-18-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by irish745 View Post
That sounds promising
The electronics engineer is going to analyze the pictures of the MMIF and the CD. So hopefully he's able to help in some way.

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  #202  
Old 07-18-2019, 04:38 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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The electronics engineer is going to analyze the pictures of the MMIF and the CD. So hopefully he's able to help in some way.
Thanks
Maybe in between it is possible to include also the signal splitting issue

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  #203  
Old 07-18-2019, 04:52 AM
irish745 irish745 is offline
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Thanks
Maybe in between it is possible to include also the signal splitting issue

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That be great id love to have a cheaper way of splitting the lvds than the original splitter

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  #204  
Old 07-18-2019, 06:15 AM
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Thanks
Maybe in between it is possible to include also the signal splitting issue

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A splitter could maybe be included in it but I think it will be much easier and cheaper to just split the hdmi signal after the conversion. There are many redaly available tiny hdmi splitters for cheap.

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  #205  
Old 07-18-2019, 06:29 AM
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A splitter could maybe be included in it but I think it will be much easier and cheaper to just split the hdmi signal after the conversion. There are many redaly available tiny hdmi splitters for cheap.

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Thanks,
You are right, but anyway, in order to maintain center armrest rear screen with its LVDS signal from the rear MMIF You should split the LVDS signal before it is converted into the HDMI signal for the common use tablets/monitors.
So, to my mind there should be both a HDMI splitter, and LVDS splitter as well. My understanding is based that OEM slitter splits the LVDS signal from one to three outputs, because all the OEM screens can accept the LVDS signal. The centre armrest rear screen, and two backrest rear screens.
Although this is my assumption because I haven't seen the splitter and haven't seen any wiring diagrams of this individual equipment. Probably, I am not right.

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  #206  
Old 07-18-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by irish745 View Post
That be great id love to have a cheaper way of splitting the lvds than the original splitter

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I found this thread on the Ti forum about splitting this lvds signal.

https://e2e.ti.com/support/interface/f/138/t/336955

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  #207  
Old 07-18-2019, 06:39 AM
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Thanks,
You are right, but anyway, in order to maintain center armrest rear screen with its LVDS signal from the rear MMIF You should split the LVDS signal before it is converted into the HDMI signal for the common use tablets/monitors.
So, to my mind there should be both a HDMI splitter, and LVDS splitter as well. My understanding is based that OEM slitter splits the LVDS signal from one to three outputs, because all the OEM screens can accept the LVDS signal. The centre armrest rear screen, and two backrest rear screens.
Although this is my assumption because I haven't seen the splitter and haven't seen any wiring diagrams of this individual equipment. Probably, I am not right.

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You are right, there should be an lvds splitter for those that want to have all 3 screens. Me personally would most likely remove the center screen and only have the 2 backrest monitors.

Anyway this is the OEM splitter and I think it only has 2 outputs.




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  #208  
Old 07-18-2019, 06:48 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
You are right, there should be an lvds splitter for those that want to have all 3 screens. Me personally would most likely remove the center screen and only have the 2 backrest monitors.

Anyway this is the OEM splitter and I think it only has 2 outputs.




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Yes, seems like that. Although we cannot see the sockets really. Hiwever the diagrams/simbols in the stickers show rather clearly socket nukber, coding and coloring...
Then whether the stock solution is either having the 2 backrest monitors or one centre armrest rear monitor, without mixing with each other, so that there are no 3 screens - just one centre, or two on each of the backrests.
Otherwise, there is another solution how BMW spkits the signals

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  #209  
Old 07-18-2019, 07:10 AM
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Well I suppose you could use 2 of these splitters to get 3 signals or just go the getho way and do a Y or T split of the cable. Only thing is that you will lose some signal strength and about 33% reflection and the impedance will also get lower


Anyway Irish745 should have one of these splitters in his individual 760.


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  #210  
Old 07-18-2019, 07:20 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Well I suppose you could use 2 of these splitters to get 3 signals or just go the getho way and do a Y or T split of the cable. Only thing is that you will lose some signal strength and about 33% reflection and the impedance will also get lower


Anyway Irish745 should have one of these splitters in his individual 760.


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I just looked innto RTK and saw thet the OEM splitter is only 1 in quantity.

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  #211  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:38 AM
irish745 irish745 is offline
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The rear original mmigt is split into 2 signals that feed the rear headrest monitors which are actually 6.5" screens the same as whats on the rear fond screen .and the original rear foldup screen is removed by individual when new thwyre are no cars with 3 screens .even on my vin and other vins its documented about the rear screen been removed the real problem with the backrest monitors is u can only have 2 people in the car cause the idrive to control them is in the armrest and needs to be folded down .thats y id like to fit 2 android touch screens there running the bmw ui off the original lvds signal

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  #212  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:50 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by irish745 View Post
The rear original mmigt is split into 2 signals that feed the rear headrest monitors which are actually 6.5" screens the same as whats on the rear fond screen .and the original rear foldup screen is removed by individual when new thwyre are no cars with 3 screens .even on my vin and other vins its documented about the rear screen been removed the real problem with the backrest monitors is u can only have 2 people in the car cause the idrive to control them is in the armrest and needs to be folded down .thats y id like to fit 2 android touch screens there running the bmw ui off the original lvds signal

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Thanks. Clear

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  #213  
Old 07-18-2019, 09:24 AM
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I wonder why the 7 didn't get the same treatment as the RR1 in regards to the individual rear entertainment. In the RR the MMIF have 2 LVDS outputs instead of using a splitter like the E65. This means that in the RR you can actually control the two 6.5" screens individually from one another

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  #214  
Old 07-18-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
I wonder why the 7 didn't get the same treatment as the RR1 in regards to the individual rear entertainment. In the RR the MMIF have 2 LVDS outputs instead of using a splitter like the E65. This means that in the RR you can actually control the two 6.5" screens individually from one another

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Probably because it is RR, and there is not an option with only one screen in the middle only.

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  #215  
Old 07-19-2019, 04:56 AM
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I've just completed the first experimental update file for the MMI. Where I have done something as simple as changed the text where is says AUX to display BT instead.
I have a bluetooth adapter in my car connected to the aux port so I thought this would make for a good first experiment if it's even possible at all to modify the MMI software by ourselves.

I will try to flash it to my experimental MMI on Sunday evening when I get back from my hiking trip. Right now I just hope that I won't brick it hehe.

I have done many steps of conversion over several months to get her so there's a good chance that I have screwed something up on the way.

.0pa (intelHex) ---> .bin ---> stripped unnecessary bits ---> Zlib unzipped ---> changed AUX to BT ---> Zlib zipped ---> .0pa

If this method works I'm going to do some modifications and a translation to other language to start with before I try to add AV input

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  #216  
Old 07-21-2019, 09:56 AM
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Found this for a 2008 RR1. Some Interesting stuff.

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  #217  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:36 AM
cimdahers cimdahers is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
Found this for a 2008 RR1. Some Interesting stuff.

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Does it mean that RR MMIF has two LVDS outputs?
Should be rather expensive I guess

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  #218  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cimdahers View Post
Does it mean that RR MMIF has two LVDS outputs?
Should be rather expensive I guess

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At least this version seems to have one output from the MMIF fed to a lvds splitter combined with a switch, av input and scaler if I understand these documents right





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  #219  
Old 07-26-2019, 02:58 PM
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I tried my costume file today but as soon as I loaded it in winkfp it gave me a conversion error/ read error. So winkfp was not able to convert my 0pa file to binary.


It gave me error on line 4183 which is an address line that tells winkfp to flash to address 7. Weirdly enough it doesn't give any error on line 80 where winkfp is told to flash on address 6 (the start of the program section)

So I will have to investigate why this happens. Until then this is a no go..

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  #220  
Old 08-19-2019, 09:18 AM
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I got a stupidly simple ingenious idea on how to solve the video output problem after reading this thread about a video interface for the E60 https://5series.net/forums/e60-parts...-system-11220/

In which he sets up an ipod within a enclosed box and points a CCD camera on the screen and feeds the output from the camera to his video input in order to see what he's playing and controll it.

This sparked the idea of doing the same thing with the rear monitor. Extending the wiering to the luggage compartment and installing the monitor within an enclosure (box) with a camera pointed at the screen with a video output fed back to what ever headrest monitors you want. So simple that it might even work. a hell of a lot simpler than building some lvds converter at least.

Edit: Of course this would not yield the best quality but it would get the job done of not loosing the ability to control the original functions. I have found it hard to find any ccd camera that's not a backup camera with fisheye lens...

But if this is combined with a separate input for the rgb signals from gps, tv, dvd I'd say it would work pretty well.
(All this assuming you want to completely remove the center screen between the seats)

Last edited by vibbelito; 08-19-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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  #221  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:58 AM
simkard simkard is offline
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Hello vibbelito,

I'm like you, wanting to add some video input on our good old E65

I already made some tests with my old TV tuner which was for analog TVs and it was working fine, but video signal was pretty blurry, like if signal grounding was bad.
As my old TV Tuner is totally useless for now ... and Digital TV DVB-T tuners are too now for most countries as only compliant with MPEG2 video encoding.
And now ... quite all video signals are relying on MPEG4/H264 so Digital tuners are totally useless too on all E65 or quite for European countries at least.


Anyway, having video inputs in our good ol' E65 is something else than receiving TV signals (which are composed of a lot of crap compared to Netflix/Amazon/etc ...).

I know some useful things that might be helpful for our goal/research here :
- electronics
- coding (in multiple languages : C++, Java, QT, etc ...)
- data bus (CANbus, MOST, etc ...)

So basically, if we have some idea to explore, I would be glad to give it a hand (like I did for RCA MOD for ASK and Logic7 modules ).


Cheers !
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  #222  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by simkard View Post
Hello vibbelito,



I'm like you, wanting to add some video input on our good old E65



I already made some tests with my old TV tuner which was for analog TVs and it was working fine, but video signal was pretty blurry, like if signal grounding was bad.

As my old TV Tuner is totally useless for now ... and Digital TV DVB-T tuners are too now for most countries as only compliant with MPEG2 video encoding.

And now ... quite all video signals are relying on MPEG4/H264 so Digital tuners are totally useless too on all E65 or quite for European countries at least.





Anyway, having video inputs in our good ol' E65 is something else than receiving TV signals (which are composed of a lot of crap compared to Netflix/Amazon/etc ...).



I know some useful things that might be helpful for our goal/research here :

- electronics

- coding (in multiple languages : C++, Java, QT, etc ...)

- data bus (CANbus, MOST, etc ...)



So basically, if we have some idea to explore, I would be glad to give it a hand (like I did for RCA MOD for ASK and Logic7 modules ).





Cheers !
I'm glad you're on board this!
At least here in Sweden there seems to be no plan for ditching the older DVB-T standard in favor for DVB-T2, they transmit both at the moment.

Anyway, this project has proven to be much more difficult than what I expected from the beginning. (I can't expect anyone to read through this whole thread)
But basically there is an AV input wired up in the video module(s), at least I believe it is in mine. (digital and analog tuner for front and rear screens.)

It's hooked up to a video switch controlled by i2c bus internally in the VM. so just sending the right MOST message to the VM should tell it to switch tho that input. Or intercepting the i2c bus inside the VM could also work but wouldn't be as seamless install.
I've been trying to get hold of an optolyzer4most to see if the MOST messages can be sniffed. Anyway, after getting the VM to switch to Video input there still is the problem of the idrive screen needing to switch to its video input.
And there in lies one of the biggest challenges I think since you need to be able to use the AUX input for sound. You could switch to navi input first in idrive and then av input in VM. But then there would be the problem that both front and rear MMIs can't display navi screen at the same time. And if you need to use the navigation menue input, one could just have gotten one of those navTV things in the first place

So in order to integrate an av input this way and not be janky the ideal thing is to edit the idrive system OS. Which is what we've spent a lot of time on. But we're kind of stuck at trying to dump the flash memory content and establishing a jtag interface to it. Not to speak about that it will then need to be reverse engineed in order to obtain the source code. The os is VxWorks wind river OS by the way. Believe me I've searched for any kind of source code but this can't be found so the only way seems to be to reverse engineer it and that will probably require an immense amount of time. And I don't know if I can do that.

But then it would probably be best to port it to linux instead of wind river.
As of now we only have some of the software that's available from the winkfp update files. These have been converted, extracted and disassembled somewhat in IDA pro...

Here's some pictures, programs and documents I've uploaded.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...C4yThRse6rIdwk

Continues in next post

Last edited by vibbelito; 08-26-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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  #223  
Old 08-27-2019, 01:32 AM
simkard simkard is offline
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I have experience with Xilinx CPUs as I have been modding such boards to get root access and modify some part of the software embedded.

Of course, that doesn't exclude the fact that source code is NEVER available on these boards memory.
Anyway, there might be some way to do something.
... Of course, it is always a matter of time to deal with these little tiny fu**ing electronic components and code lines

Anyway, I'm quite sure that there are ways to get AV inputs working straight ahead and directly from the VM (Video Module) and/or the NAVI (GPS moudle).
There are CVBS and SOUND (Left/Right) inputs there.

I might give a try on the CANBUS to identify what triggers their activation.
Or maybe you already have an idea on that subject ?
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  #224  
Old 08-27-2019, 03:14 AM
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Sorry, I hadn't had time to post the next part of that post (fell asleep)

Something I have been thinking of lately that will work for all the video modules with a digital DVB-T mpeg2 receiver is to make a dvb-t modulator transmitter that takes in one of the FAKRA tv antennas. And have maybe say one composite AV input and one HDMI input that it can modulate into DVB-T signal and combine it with the existing channels and output them on a fakra antenna output to the digital tv module.
So it would show up like this in the TV menue alongside all the other channels:


This box would be placed between the areal and the VM like a set top box.
I believe that would look pretty OEM when accessed in the TV menue with the input names showing. This would also be able to take advantage of the digital sound in the tuner for a true stereo/ surround sound. Which the analog tuner isn't capable of with the sound signal only being mono.

Or this could be combined as a set top box that's able to recieve the newer DVB-T2 Mpeg4 broadcast and convert them into DVB-T2 signal. Like the one available from bmw to allow the analog tuner to recieve dvb-t Brodcast whilst adding one av input.

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  #225  
Old 08-27-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by simkard View Post
I have experience with Xilinx CPUs as I have been modding such boards to get root access and modify some part of the software embedded.

In the idrive computer the main cpu is a renesas sh3 SH7709A resposible for the user interface and the secondary cpu a ST10F269-T3 responsible for the most and canbus interface conversions and the power up sequence. The xilinx is an FPGA but maybe it has direct access to the flash memory also? We haven't released looked much into the xilinx yet.


Quote:
Of course, that doesn't exclude the fact that source code is NEVER available on these boards memory.

Anyway, there might be some way to do something.

... Of course, it is always a matter of time to deal with these little tiny fu**ing electronic components and code lines
Yeah but Becker automotive has left a good amount of debugging info in the code. No symbols table ofcourse so not that useful. But helpful nevertheless.
I have made a costume file where I changed the text of the menue to display BT instead of AUX and converted it back to a .0pa file to flash with winkfp but for some reason winkfp gives me an error when loading the file, on the line that tells winkfp to change memory sector where to put the data. And I have no idea why since it's like the original one



Quote:
Anyway, I'm quite sure that there are ways to get AV inputs working straight ahead and directly from the VM (Video Module) and/or the NAVI (GPS moudle).

There are CVBS and SOUND (Left/Right) inputs there.
Where do you mean that there are CVBS AND SOUND (LEFT/Right) inputs?

Yes there are ways that people have modded their analog tuner to be an av Input with cvbs and mono audio input instead of tv. There is a DIY guide for this from Stuartjohn24.
There might also be a similar way to mod the digital or hybrid tuner to replace the tv function but that hasn't been tried yet from what I know.



Quote:
I might give a try on the CANBUS to identify what triggers their activation.

Or maybe you already have an idea on that subject ?
Yes that would be cool if you can find the triggers to switch input. If it's available on canbus. I think they are only transmitted on the MOST bus unfortunately.



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