HELP! Stranded,,,X1 won't start - Page 3 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X1 E84 (2011 - 2015)

X1 E84 (2011 - 2015)
First generation BMW X1 availbe as a X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i xDrive.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:52 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Whitehorse, YT
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,370
Mein Auto: 2011 328i x-drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
This car has the N20 engine that is prone to seize in early model years. BMW extended the warranty up to 7 years / 70k miles due to this issue.
Isn't that for the timing chain issue though ? Because wasn't that the initial thought / presumption when the OP called BMW without having brought the vehicle in yet ?
__________________


Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #52  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:19 PM
acoste's Avatar
acoste acoste is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,330
Mein Auto: 2010 550i MT
"According to my mechanic the timing chain looks good"

The guide can't be observed from outside. I don't think he tore it down to the point to see the plastic chain guides.


"Still waiting for response from BMW Canada on coverage but SA said something to the effect that there is a ring on camshaft that "slipped" and destructed inside engine"

""The failure of the engine is related to the bearing shell around the crank bearing. Sleeve has let go and caused the crank bearing to stop spinning and subsequently causing metal shavings to circulate through the engine.""

Bearing fails due to oil starvation. Oil starvation was most likely caused by partially clogged oil pickup line due to chips from the chain guide.
Oil pressure warning will go on only if the pressure is lower than 0.5-1 bar. At let's say 3000 rpm the engine needs 3 bar of oil pressure. If this is down to 1 bar due to some clogs the oil pressure warning won't come on yet but the engine will get damaged.
__________________
__________________
2010 BMW 550i MT
2003 BMW 325i @216k and counting
1998 BMW 528i MT @ 231k //sold
1997 Saab 9000 //sold

Last edited by acoste; 08-15-2018 at 01:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:30 PM
acoste's Avatar
acoste acoste is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,330
Mein Auto: 2010 550i MT
Correction. This engine has a real oil pressure sensor, not just a pressure switch. So I wonder if the OP saw any oil pressure warning light.
__________________
__________________
2010 BMW 550i MT
2003 BMW 325i @216k and counting
1998 BMW 528i MT @ 231k //sold
1997 Saab 9000 //sold
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #54  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:33 PM
acoste's Avatar
acoste acoste is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: California
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,330
Mein Auto: 2010 550i MT
This is where the guide breaks. Those chips can easily clog the pickup line and cause major wear specially at high rpm.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image9.jpg
Views:	383
Size:	110.8 KB
ID:	812974  
__________________
__________________
2010 BMW 550i MT
2003 BMW 325i @216k and counting
1998 BMW 528i MT @ 231k //sold
1997 Saab 9000 //sold

Last edited by acoste; 08-15-2018 at 01:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-17-2018, 05:47 AM
E84N20 E84N20 is offline
Registered User
Location: Vancouver, BC
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 35
Mein Auto: 2012 X1 X28i
Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
"According to my mechanic the timing chain looks good"

The guide can't be observed from outside. I don't think he tore it down to the point to see the plastic chain guides.


"Still waiting for response from BMW Canada on coverage but SA said something to the effect that there is a ring on camshaft that "slipped" and destructed inside engine"

""The failure of the engine is related to the bearing shell around the crank bearing. Sleeve has let go and caused the crank bearing to stop spinning and subsequently causing metal shavings to circulate through the engine.""

Bearing fails due to oil starvation. Oil starvation was most likely caused by partially clogged oil pickup line due to chips from the chain guide.
Oil pressure warning will go on only if the pressure is lower than 0.5-1 bar. At let's say 3000 rpm the engine needs 3 bar of oil pressure. If this is down to 1 bar due to some clogs the oil pressure warning won't come on yet but the engine will get damaged.
thanks for the input, it makes sense to me. Learning a lot from this post.

if BMW open the engine they should also find plastic "bits" if the guide is broken, not just metal shavings right?

JB
__________________
2012 X1 xDrive28i xline
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-04-2018, 10:05 AM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Mein Auto: S-Drive X1
Have you gotten any follow up in what caused your engine failure? I am assuming by now they have replaced the engine.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-04-2018, 03:34 PM
JimmyX1 JimmyX1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Belleville, Ontario
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 61
Mein Auto: BMW X1
No reason given for the failure although they claimed in a letter that engine defects are only covered during the warranty period and in good faith are paying a portion of the cost to replace with new engine. I'm hoping I eventually recover my costs or portion of them in the class action lawsuit. As I said, I was 1of 3 that were sitting in the back lot with identical situation.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-05-2018, 07:30 AM
hooligan_clt's Avatar
hooligan_clt hooligan_clt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 235
Mein Auto: '15 X1 35i M Sport
No root cause for the engine failure provided?!?!!?!?!

I would demand to have it, in writing, personally.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:17 AM
JimmyX1 JimmyX1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Belleville, Ontario
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 61
Mein Auto: BMW X1
They have elected to not share the reason for the failure and my assumption is they don't want to admit there was a defect especially with Class Action suits in both US and Canada.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-05-2018, 10:40 AM
hooligan_clt's Avatar
hooligan_clt hooligan_clt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 235
Mein Auto: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Before I paid them a nickel for that engine replacement, I would demand a cause of failure in writing.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:36 AM
Chicone Chicone is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 44
Mein Auto: 2015 X1 35i X Drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Before I paid them a nickel for that engine replacement, I would demand a cause of failure in writing.
I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me they have no obligation to do so, or even pay for a portion of the out of warranty replacement if they don't want to. I suppose if you sue them, you could maybe find out in discovery, but be careful what you wish for..

-Steve

2015 X1 35i MSport // BMS Intake
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:11 PM
hooligan_clt's Avatar
hooligan_clt hooligan_clt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 235
Mein Auto: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicone View Post
I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me they have no obligation to do so, or even pay for a portion of the out of warranty replacement if they don't want to. I suppose if you sue them, you could maybe find out in discovery, but be careful what you wish for..

-Steve

2015 X1 35i MSport // BMS Intake
That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying I would not pay for a repair - any repair, much less something as large as a motor replacement - without a documented root cause.

"Your engine died/seized/blew up" is not an acceptable root cause.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:37 PM
Chicone Chicone is offline
Registered User
Location: Seattle
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 44
Mein Auto: 2015 X1 35i X Drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
"Your engine died/seized/blew up" is not an acceptable root cause.
Agreed, but I think they could have you sign a non-disclosure if they told you. Iíve heard of other manufacturers doing that, the one in Cupertino comes to mind.


-Steve

2015 X1 MSport. // BMS Intake
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-06-2018, 06:44 AM
hooligan_clt's Avatar
hooligan_clt hooligan_clt is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 235
Mein Auto: '15 X1 35i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicone View Post
Agreed, but I think they could have you sign a non-disclosure if they told you. I've heard of other manufacturers doing that, the one in Cupertino comes to mind.


-Steve

2015 X1 MSport. // BMS Intake
That'd be fine with me, since the OP said they are helping to defray the costs of replacement by some amount, just not the full total.

It really doesn't seem like they have to help pay, it's being done out of some measure of goodwill. But if I'm paying any of it, a dealership saying "Sorry, engine's shot - trust me." would not be good enough for me to get out the checkbook.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 10-07-2018, 02:52 PM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Mein Auto: S-Drive X1
Any update on your engine replacement? I am especially curious if BMW defrayed some of the cost despite being out of warranty.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:54 PM
JimmyX1 JimmyX1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Belleville, Ontario
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 61
Mein Auto: BMW X1
I was told this week that it is finally ready for pickup but need some time to get the invoice together. BMW did agree to pay for a portion of the replacement. Almost 4 months since breakdown although I have had a loaner for the past 2 1/2 months.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 10-08-2018, 12:03 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Whitehorse, YT
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,370
Mein Auto: 2011 328i x-drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyX1 View Post
I was told this week that it is finally ready for pickup but need some time to get the invoice together. BMW did agree to pay for a portion of the replacement. Almost 4 months since breakdown although I have had a loaner for the past 2 1/2 months.
If you're allowed to (and feel comfortable in doing so), I'm sure a lot of us would be very curious to see a scan of the final invoice / work order details. I suspect it will be quite a few pages.
__________________


Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 11-08-2018, 06:17 AM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Mein Auto: S-Drive X1
Assuming the repair is complete, I am curious as to the final outcome, assuming you are free to disclose that. Did BMW cover some of the cost of the engine replacement? Was there ever an explanation for the catastrophic engine failure?
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:04 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Whitehorse, YT
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,370
Mein Auto: 2011 328i x-drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forteatwo View Post
Assuming the repair is complete, I am curious as to the final outcome, assuming you are free to disclose that. Did BMW cover some of the cost of the engine replacement? Was there ever an explanation for the catastrophic engine failure?
Looks like the OP has checked out.
__________________


Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11-19-2018, 08:09 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 70
Mein Auto: X1 2.0L xdrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
Looks like the OP has checked out.
May have had a heart attack once he saw the final invoice. The amount of hours they can put into a car in their shop for 2.5 months could have been a $20,000 engine replacement even if they paid half of that it would be nearly the value of the car. Still I would like to know how he fared out too.

As as side note I have almost exactly the same car as him obviously and was wondering what I would do if this happened to me. I went and check scrap yards online and was shocked to see they want $5000 CDN just for a used engine alone of the same year and over 100k kms. I am going to make a point of going real easy on my engine/tranny going forward and change the oil more often than what they 'recommend'
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:57 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Whitehorse, YT
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,370
Mein Auto: 2011 328i x-drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvadam View Post
I am going to make a point of going real easy on my engine/tranny going forward and change the oil more often than what they 'recommend'
I have heard that more frequent oil changes help avoid this failure. That being said, I have not seen any science to back up that claim.

This issue is a known problem, but I don't believe it's THAT common. In 2012 alone, there were ~150,000 of these things manufactured. If the failure probability was 50/50 or something even remotely close to that, you would have seen a recall issued. The fact that there isn't a recall tells me that the BMW folks ran the probability statistical models and figured out that it was cheaper to offer extended warranties and deal with each failure on a case-by-case basis (which is far more expensive, per-vehicle) vs issuing a mass recall. That also tells me that BMW wants to look into the history of each vehicle that experiences the failure. This means that if you perform 50K interval oil changes, you're probably getting denied for the extended warranty.

The issue is magnified because we only see the "bad" on these forums. No one shows up to say they've had their X1 for 4 years and never experienced an issue. X1 ownership, on mass, doesn't show up to tell you they've never had this problem. You are infinitely more times likely to see someone like the OP show up because they experienced a failure. Even if that failure represents only 1 in 10,000 vehicles, it's still the story you see posted. Human nature - we then get nervous and anxious.

Bottom line, the OP also made several contradictory statements throughout this thread. Regardless of extended warranty or who's at fault or whether you believe this is a design flaw, how you handle yourself with your dealer and, ultimately, the manufacturer, will have a massive effect on the outcome you'll have. If you rant and rave to your dealer about how this crap, blah blah blah, you're a lot less likely to get them to advocate on your behalf. I've done a couple lengthy posts about how I was able to get an exception from BMW NA to allow me to have a recall performed in another country. It was all about how I approached the situation.

Anyways, would still love to learn the end result of the OP's predicament. Not sure if we'll ever hear back though.
__________________


Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 11-23-2018, 04:05 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 70
Mein Auto: X1 2.0L xdrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
Anyways, would still love to learn the end result of the OP's predicament. Not sure if we'll ever hear back though.
Ya I agree with everything you said there. I really wish these people would let us know how the situation turned out especially after putting so much effort into ranting on the forum. I think though it is safe to assume he resolved the issue because based on the level of anger I was reading I think he would have come on one last time to bash BMW thoroughly if he didn't get the kind of resolution he was expecting.

One thing I really find surprising re-reading some of this is how prevalent the class-action lawsuit mentality is in the United States and to some extent in Canada as well. Even if the problem is 100% due to a manufacturing or design defect; They only guaranteed the engine to work for the warrantee period. It is puzzling as to what grounds so many people believe the company is responsible to replace or repair something outside of the warrantee that was agreed to legally during the purchase.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 11-23-2018, 05:02 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Whitehorse, YT
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,370
Mein Auto: 2011 328i x-drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvadam View Post
Ya I agree with everything you said there. I really wish these people would let us know how the situation turned out especially after putting so much effort into ranting on the forum. I think though it is safe to assume he resolved the issue because based on the level of anger I was reading I think he would have come on one last time to bash BMW thoroughly if he didn't get the kind of resolution he was expecting.

One thing I really find surprising re-reading some of this is how prevalent the class-action lawsuit mentality is in the United States and to some extent in Canada as well. Even if the problem is 100% due to a manufacturing or design defect; They only guaranteed the engine to work for the warrantee period. It is puzzling as to what grounds so many people believe the company is responsible to replace or repair something outside of the warrantee that was agreed to legally during the purchase.
I suspect the resolution was something along the lines of a 50/50 cost sharing. Which, TBH, is more than fair, IMO. If my X1 grenades tomorrow and BMW offers to split the cost and it winds up $10K out of each of our pockets...... I dunno, I'm OK with that

Yes. People feel VERY entitled. I really don't mean to come off smug, or arrogant, or "better" than anyone else, but I feel that people's entitlement grows exponentially when they make a purchase like this. Many people buy a BMW because of the name recognition, and to show off..... Not everyone, but a lot of people. And often, those same people who are buying the BMW to show off, they're buying a used one. In all likelihood, because they couldn't afford a brand new one. To go a step further - they likely don't have the $$$ to fix anything major that goes wrong.

Yeah, I realize how that paragraph is going to read. And I fully expect people to call me an arrogant, "better than thou" POS. But the bottom line is, it's just the reality of things.

Lastly - the OP isn't even the original owner of the vehicle. I'd have more sympathy for someone who bought the vehicle brand new, never abused it, always had it dealer serviced, and then had a failure right outside warranty period. I have no empathy at all for someone who bought a second-hand vehicle and then runs into troubles. Welcome to world of used car ownership.
__________________


Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 11-23-2018, 05:31 PM
Ziggy328xi Ziggy328xi is offline
Ziggy.
Location: Boston MA
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 347
Mein Auto: 11 328xi N51
honestly, im a dealer tech and if u make it to 100k with your N20/N26 without needing an engine/timing chain id consider yourself lucky and ditch the car. they arnt designed to make it past that imo
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 11-23-2018, 07:41 PM
stonex1's Avatar
stonex1 stonex1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: BC, Canada
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,391
Mein Auto: 13' X1 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy328xi View Post
honestly, im a dealer tech and if u make it to 100k with your N20/N26 without needing an engine/timing chain id consider yourself lucky and ditch the car. they arnt designed to make it past that imo
Thanks for your post Ziggy, interesting insight.
Anything you can mention about your experiences with the N55?
__________________
2013 X1
MinGrey,Xenon,HK,PwrSeats,Sirius,XLine,Nav
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X1 E84 (2011 - 2015)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.