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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #26  
Old 08-18-2011, 07:03 AM
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2011, 02:26 PM
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I highly hope F30 320d manual will be available. This is the only car that would make me retire my E46 M3!
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  #28  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
I guess it's prudent to be more specific, since this is a global brand. The normally aspirated inline 3.0 six as a base engine will be no more in the United States.
After having the chance to wring out the 2011 Kia Optima with 274 hp, 269 lb-ft of torque, I was literally in shock at the power delivery for such a small engine. Very interested to see how BMW's N20 will perform.
This is what I was talking about in a previous post. The power delivery on some of these 2.0-2.5L 4 cyl is pretty impressive. The fact that they can deliver power similar to older i6/v6s with better fuel economy and more torque will be good enough for most people. I guess the problem really is that most of us are used to the econo-box anemic 4-cyl with 120-150 hp. A good comparison is that the 2012 Nissan Altima 2.5S (which is a sizable car 3100lbs curb weight) has a inline-4 with 175hp/180ft-lbs torque. The I4T in the BMW will deliver 240hp (a 65 hp disparity which is probably underrated) 258 ft-lbs torque (a 78ft-lbs difference). That's almost on par with the 3.5L V6 engine (270hp/258ft-lbs) offered in the Altima. I'm pretty sure that this I4T will give better performance and economy than the E46 ZHP that I'm driving currently and the outgoing 3.0L I6 (albeit it will be carrying more vehicle heft). I'd say this engine is a win, the only thing it won't do is tick all the boxes of US BMW purists...outside the states the 4 banger makes up a significant portion of the sales.

The only thing that would make it better is if BMW bought over the 320d...adding a 40mpg BMW to the mix would be great!!!!
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  #29  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:12 PM
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This is what I was talking about in a previous post. The power delivery on some of these 2.0-2.5L 4 cyl is pretty impressive. The fact that they can deliver power similar to older i6/v6s with better fuel economy and more torque will be good enough for most people. I guess the problem really is that most of us are used to the econo-box anemic 4-cyl with 120-150 hp. A good comparison is that the 2012 Nissan Altima 2.5S (which is a sizable car 3100lbs curb weight) has a inline-4 with 175hp/180ft-lbs torque. The I4T in the BMW will deliver 240hp (a 65 hp disparity which is probably underrated) 258 ft-lbs torque (a 78ft-lbs difference). That's almost on par with the 3.5L V6 engine (270hp/258ft-lbs) offered in the Altima. I'm pretty sure that this I4T will give better performance and economy than the E46 ZHP that I'm driving currently and the outgoing 3.0L I6 (albeit it will be carrying more vehicle heft). I'd say this engine is a win, the only thing it won't do is tick all the boxes of US BMW purists...outside the states the 4 banger makes up a significant portion of the sales.
Since it's blown, you know what that means...Tunable. Wait till Dinan or DME gets their paws on the N20. Then the question will be asked, "Why do I need a 6 cyl turbo?"
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  #30  
Old 08-20-2011, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jusmills View Post
This is what I was talking about in a previous post. The power delivery on some of these 2.0-2.5L 4 cyl is pretty impressive. The fact that they can deliver power similar to older i6/v6s with better fuel economy and more torque will be good enough for most people.
Right on, and this is why I'm enthusiastic about the F30. My last car was a 2001 Saab 9-5 Aero, which had late 1990's technology (e.g., no DI), and yet delivered 230 hp and 258 lb.-ft. of torque at 1,750 rpm. It weighed 3,600 pounds, and easily achieved 32 mpg on the highway, where it was an absolute rocket. The midrange thrust from the turbo's fat torque curve was amazing, and I miss this in my Acura TSX. The F30 will be even faster than my old Saab, with better fuel economy. I'm sure the engine will feel and sound better too, like the buttery smooth I4 in the early 1990's 318i.
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  #31  
Old 08-22-2011, 01:42 PM
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Not sure how you get all details from those pictures, to me it looks like current 3 series.
I wish there were more pictures, and not from up above at 10th floor.

What's strange is that with all technology, whose are the only shots of F30. What happened to other thousands of picture-ready car enthusiasts?
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  #32  
Old 08-22-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vladyxa View Post
What's strange is that with all technology, whose are the only shots of F30. What happened to other thousands of picture-ready car enthusiasts?
The car enthusiast world is probably not as broad as you may think. We see the world in a whole different light. The majority of the world sees cars as a mode of transportation. HPFP, RFT's, DI, LSD,HUD,etc... these things are hieroglyphics to most people.
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  #33  
Old 08-22-2011, 03:14 PM
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I think I like it a lot and I can't wait to see it in person. I've mostly had 5's up until now and although I loved the looks of the F10 I got a 335 this time because the 5 Series felt rather heavy and less agile. On the other hand I love how the 335 drives and handles but it's just a touch too small. The F30 looks like it might fill that gap nicely. One of my favorite all time cars was my '02 530 Premium/Sport and it appears the F30 will be just about the same size as the E39 but with a lot more Go Fast. It will be fun to see and thanks for posting the pics.

Totally agree, my problem is I Have to wait a few years to get the new F30, I still have the wrapper on my 2011 328i, might be just as well though, not too fond of buying a new model the first year, no disrespect to anyone, thats just me...............

Last edited by Maverick64; 08-22-2011 at 03:20 PM.
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  #34  
Old 08-23-2011, 06:40 PM
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this from all the traditional Audi haters...who bagged on Audi for years for putting 2.0t engine in the A4.

Now that BMW copies Audi, its suddenly a great idea to put a turbocharged 4 in a compact sport sedan...

Not sure why BMW is special, even Kia/Hyundai offers a direct injection, turbo 4 that pushes nearly 300bhp in a $28k car...

turbos don't get great mileage when you drive them hard, about the same as a comparable six, but much less smooth, with higher temperatures and more vibration.


I'm not anti 4 cylinder, I just find it really ironic that BMW fan boys bagged Audi forever for using the 2.0t
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:43 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
this from all the traditional Audi haters...who bagged on Audi for years for putting 2.0t engine in the A4.

Now that BMW copies Audi, its suddenly a great idea to put a turbocharged 4 in a compact sport sedan...

Not sure why BMW is special, even Kia/Hyundai offers a direct injection, turbo 4 that pushes nearly 300bhp in a $28k car...

turbos don't get great mileage when you drive them hard, about the same as a comparable six, but much less smooth, with higher temperatures and more vibration.


I'm not anti 4 cylinder, I just find it really ironic that BMW fan boys bagged Audi forever for using the 2.0t
We'll have to wait to see how good the new I4 engine is but the Audi I4 is not a very refined engine in my opinion. I expect BMW's to be one of the better 4 cylinder engines in the world in terms of refinement and power delivery. I had a 2002 A4 Quattro with the 1.8 liter engine and the n52 I6 is a much better engine. It's not fair to compare the two due to the fact that I had the car 9 years ago but that's the reason BMW fans bag on Audi.

As far as "copying" Audi, that's a stretch. Fuel consumption issues are driving this not the competitive market.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2011, 08:22 PM
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I drove a 1.8T for four years and I thought it was great. I later test drove an Audi with the 2.0T and it felt a bit rough, diesel like. Not that there is anything wrong with diesels.

I didn't catch what the displacement will be for the BMW 4-cyls. Does anyone know? 2.5 L maybe?
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:19 PM
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I drove a 1.8T for four years and I thought it was great. I later test drove an Audi with the 2.0T and it felt a bit rough, diesel like. Not that there is anything wrong with diesels.

I didn't catch what the displacement will be for the BMW 4-cyls. Does anyone know? 2.5 L maybe?
2.0 twin scroll turbo. Seems to be the magic number for inline 4.
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:07 AM
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I've lived with an Audi turbo 4 for 4 years. We had a 335i for a year. At this point I'm not very enthusiastic about turbos (though 2 years with an R56 Cooper S was fun). I miss the sensation of revving my 2003 330i to redline...liquid smooth and delightful. Turbos just aren't delightful. They're kinda boring...even with over 300 hp they do not make me smile with glee.
I know where you're coming from.

After teasing ourselves about getting a BMW for years, my wife and I finally decided to pull the trigger on one. Either we were going to replace one of our two Toyota daily drivers and get an F10 528i with the naturally aspirated Inline-6 engine, or a convertible and keep the two DD's and have a third car. The 240hp/230tq spec N52 in the 528i blew me away. Sounded and felt great, loved the short gearing, worked wonderfully with the 8 speed automatic, had a nice crisp throttle response, and moved that nearly 4000lb sedan around as quick as I've ever need or care to go.

We decided to go with the E93 convertible, but the 230hp/200tq NA engine just wasn't up to the job for me so I went with the 335 turbo. It's got power yeah, but it just doesn't have the same character as the NA engines. Turbo lag *is* there, throttle response is mushier, and the sound and feel just isn't the same either. The exhaust note is nice in the E93, but there's almost no intake noise at all. Since there's so much torque the gearing is longer which makes it more difficult to wind the engine out just for the fun of it, and yes with 300hp it's very difficult to mat it just for the fun of it too. Love the car and I do "like" the engine quite a bit, but it just doesn't have the "charm" of the naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines.

I run it in DS mode and it's fine. It winds up a bit more and holds lower gears for longer like it's an NA engine and it's pretty nice. I don't like driving it in D mode at all. It sounds, feels, and drives like it's a big lazy V8 which it is in a lot of ways, but it's just not very exciting in that mode.
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
2.0 twin scroll turbo. Seems to be the magic number for inline 4.
It actually is because of the engineering involved. Basically, the size of the pistons in a 2 litre 4 banger mean that they are easier to counter-balance. Any larger and it becomes harder and harder to build an effective and reliable counter-balancing system. Subaru gets away with a 2.5 because they use a boxer engine rather than an inline, which in itself is inherently balanced. Larger inline 4's tend to suffer more and more vibration as the engine ages, but this has been offset a little in recent years by advances in the counter-balancing.

Big V6's have similar problems, but inline sixes are also inherently balanced and thus smoother than their large-bore six-pot cousins.

HTH
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