Tuning options for N20 and 1st hand feedback from early adopters??? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)

F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:56 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Tuning options for N20 and 1st hand feedback from early adopters???

Had great experience "chipping" VW and Audi turbo 4's over the years, but also one bad result from a company that hadn't sorted out their product. Realising its early days for the N20, I wanted to find out what's out there today and get first hand experience from those that have made the leap.
My goal could pretty much be labelled "free lunch" - not that I mind putting out a few bucks for tuning (<$1000), but I do want zero hassles, zero code problems, anything that will realistically do damage, and that is in most circumstances undectable by BMW (e.g. phony warrenty claim denials). As far as performance, I want it to make a feelable difference (as with Audi), but not affect normal driving.
Anyone out there can help???
Thx in advance
RJ
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:10 AM
av98's Avatar
av98 av98 is offline
ZHP = Patlabor
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,340
Mein Auto: Mini Clubmn,Odyssey,Miata
http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-m-p...t/?redirect=no

Wait for the 2.0T petrol upgrade and since it's from BMW should be covered by warranty
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:11 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
People so far seem happy with BMS.

Their tunes bring power to about 270whp and nets times that line up with the N55. It retails for only $380.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:15 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
I spoke with a visiting BMW engineer at Test Drive Event at end of Sept. His educated opinion was that a 320 upgrade is 100% and 335 a definite maybe in the next 8-12 months, but 328 is already too close to 335 and is unlikely for the foreseeable future...for sure not until the Coupe and new M3 are in full production.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:21 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
People so far seem happy with BMS.

Their tunes bring power to about 270whp and nets times that line up with the N55. It retails for only $380.
Do you know who they are, or can direct me to their post/threads. I've seen a couple of magazine articules that claim tuned at-wheel horsepower of ~270hp, but also that 270hp is the true at-crank horsepower.
Thx
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:29 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
People so far seem happy with BMS.

Their tunes bring power to about 270whp and nets times that line up with the N55. It retails for only $380.
Yes, say the BMS system, but it states it is a beta unit - based on previous experience I'm looking for a sorted-out system for my almost $60k car. To be honest, I was hoping someone like Dinan might have something; but not a word. I don't mind paying a couple of hundred dollars for the comfort and support
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:50 AM
av98's Avatar
av98 av98 is offline
ZHP = Patlabor
Location: SF Bay Area
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,340
Mein Auto: Mini Clubmn,Odyssey,Miata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
People so far seem happy with BMS.

Their tunes bring power to about 270whp and nets times that line up with the N55. It retails for only $380.
Wow, just checked out their website, great improvements on a mild tune. This N20 shows great potential similar to the Mitsu EVO & Subie WRX/STi engines.

http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:55 AM
kpgray's Avatar
kpgray kpgray is offline
GasCompression
Location: Rochester, Michigan
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 522
Mein Auto: 2014 335i M-Sport RWD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
Had great experience "chipping" VW and Audi turbo 4's over the years, but also one bad result from a company that hadn't sorted out their product. Realising its early days for the N20, I wanted to find out what's out there today and get first hand experience from those that have made the leap.
My goal could pretty much be labelled "free lunch" - not that I mind putting out a few bucks for tuning (<$1000), but I do want zero hassles, zero code problems, anything that will realistically do damage, and that is in most circumstances undectable by BMW (e.g. phony warrenty claim denials). As far as performance, I want it to make a feelable difference (as with Audi), but not affect normal driving.
Anyone out there can help???
Thx in advance
RJ
Here were a couple of performance exhaust systems, I have seen both for under a grand...

A Remus performance exhaust: https://www.bimmerfest.com/news/64395...-328i-exhaust/

An aFe performance exhaust: http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...tno=49-46310-B
__________________
Kenneth P. Gray
2014 Black & Tan 335i M-Sport/SAT/PP/TP/CWP/DAP/HK/403M
2018 Jaguar E-Pace S, Corris Grey/Ebony (Wife's drive)



2014 Black/Tan 335i M-Sport/Sport Automatic Transmission/Premium Package/Technology Package
Cold Weather Package/Driver Assistance Package/Harmon Kardon sound/19" Wheels 403M HP tires

Last edited by kpgray; 11-18-2012 at 12:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:56 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
Do you know who they are, or can direct me to their post/threads. I've seen a couple of magazine articules that claim tuned at-wheel horsepower of ~270hp, but also that 270hp is the true at-crank horsepower.
Thx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
Yes, say the BMS system, but it states it is a beta unit - based on previous experience I'm looking for a sorted-out system for my almost $60k car. To be honest, I was hoping someone like Dinan might have something; but not a word. I don't mind paying a couple of hundred dollars for the comfort and support
It's a beta tune in the fact the cars are so new.

Fact is, there are plenty on the road already and I have seen excellent comments from people.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=695431

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=741564

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746786

AFE is another option:

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761744
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
I did the platform testing for the Roque unit which is going to production as we speak.

It had a great sound, made real power on the dyno and is a fair price.

Production will be out in January.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:08 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Thank guys - some good info.
I have to wonder though why Dinan hasn't stepped in, but I just checked AC Schnitzer site and they seem to have a N20 tune that take it to ~294. But not sure if that's @ wheel or crank. Everything I've seen suggests that BMW understated the HP of the N20 and the honest number is closer to 270 (so is the gain 49 or 24???)
Apples to apples seems a little harder to find;-)

http://www.ac-schnitzer.de/en/bmw-ca...2/engineering/
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:13 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I did the platform testing for the Roque unit which is going to production as we speak.

It had a great sound, made real power on the dyno and is a fair price.

Production will be out in January.
Any tests on the power gains? Would actually prefer to retain stock black tips though.

Very funny, but true statement about the stock sound - probably the least attractive aspect of the N20. Even my wife - Ms Hates Cars - made the same comment.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:34 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
Any tests on the power gains? Would actually prefer to retain stock black tips though.

Very funny, but true statement about the stock sound - probably the least attractive aspect of the N20. Even my wife - Ms Hates Cars - made the same comment.
Yes.

On a load bearing dyno(not the higher numbers associated with a Dynojet), saw a peak of nearly 7whp and nearly 20lb ft of tq.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:35 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
Thank guys - some good info.
I have to wonder though why Dinan hasn't stepped in, but I just checked AC Schnitzer site and they seem to have a N20 tune that take it to ~294. But not sure if that's @ wheel or crank. Everything I've seen suggests that BMW understated the HP of the N20 and the honest number is closer to 270 (so is the gain 49 or 24???)
Apples to apples seems a little harder to find;-)

http://www.ac-schnitzer.de/en/bmw-ca...2/engineering/
That is not whp. 294 crank is more than do-able, a bit on the low side in fact.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-21-2012, 10:06 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
That is not whp. 294 crank is more than do-able, a bit on the low side in fact.
On 91 octane?!?!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-21-2012, 10:18 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
On 91 octane?!?!
How would I know lol.

290's at the crank Would indicate about a 15whp gain from the tune. That is on the low side of an expected gain.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
[QUOTE=Jamesonsviggen;7207160]How would I know lol.

290's at the crank Would indicate about a 15whp gain from the tune. That is on the low side of an expected gain.[/QUOT

Other than having Mythbusters weighing in to help sort fact from fiction - we look to the combined knowledge of the user group (and you sound like a pro)
My experience is that some performance claims can be overstated (or fudged) or come with critical caveats e.g. racing fuel.
Or some just don't pass the sniff test. For instaance European Car magazine tested a cold air system that netted -1 HP, but AFE claims 10 hp and 14 t, also BMW exhaust upgrades claim 0 HP gain while the above claims 12 & 17. I don't mean to cast aspersions; just want get to the fact. I mean even if these gain are true in singularity, are they less or more when ccmbined and what else don't we know, we don't know??
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:26 PM
jfox335i's Avatar
jfox335i jfox335i is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 406
Mein Auto: 2014 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post
Yes, say the BMS system, but it states it is a beta unit - based on previous experience I'm looking for a sorted-out system for my almost $60k car. To be honest, I was hoping someone like Dinan might have something; but not a word. I don't mind paying a couple of hundred dollars for the comfort and support
I emailed Dinan regarding tuning the F30s, specifically the N55. I was told by a Dinan rep it was still in development but that it was going to be offered. What I gathered from searching around was about 6-8 more months until Dinan tuning is available.
__________________
Current: 2014 F30 335i Melbourne M-line, PP,CW,6MT,NAV,DA,403M
2012 Z4sDrive35i - BSM,Coral Red,Msport,PP,Tech,CW
Retired:
2012 F30 335i Sedan - BSM, Sport Line, PP,Tech,HK,CW,DA2
2010 E90 M3 - JBM PP,TP,ES,CW,Beast


BMWCCA #471315
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-21-2012, 03:34 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
[QUOTE=Canada1867;7207290]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
How would I know lol.

290's at the crank Would indicate about a 15whp gain from the tune. That is on the low side of an expected gain.[/QUOT

Other than having Mythbusters weighing in to help sort fact from fiction - we look to the combined knowledge of the user group (and you sound like a pro)
My experience is that some performance claims can be overstated (or fudged) or come with critical caveats e.g. racing fuel.
Or some just don't pass the sniff test. For instaance European Car magazine tested a cold air system that netted -1 HP, but AFE claims 10 hp and 14 t, also BMW exhaust upgrades claim 0 HP gain while the above claims 12 & 17. I don't mean to cast aspersions; just want get to the fact. I mean even if these gain are true in singularity, are they less or more when ccmbined and what else don't we know, we don't know??
The gains I saw with the exhaust were in person and on the same dyno. I am confident in the reliability of those numbers.

Other tuners are not so trust worthy and can tweak numbers in their favor.

I am not a tuner, have no horse in the race.

I get my exhaust free either way from them using my car.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:55 PM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
[QUOTE=Jamesonsviggen;7207731][QUOTE=Canada1867;7207290]

The gains I saw with the exhaust were in person and on the same dyno. I am confident in the reliability of those numbers.

I trully appreciate your 1st hand feedback, and not just to verify the numbers. As I'm sure you know its not just the height of the peak, but the width and shape of the whole curve AND how it feels in the butt.

So how does it feel now that you've it installed? And does the sound really live up to its billing?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-21-2012, 08:18 PM
Terry @ BMS Terry @ BMS is offline
Past Sponsor
Location: www.burgertuning.com
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,694
Mein Auto: Turbo BMWs
We've tuned quite a few N20/N26 motors now, maybe 250? It's a solid motor and responds well to tuning. We knocked our 0-60 down to 4.9 seconds with just the tune. And the best part is it takes literally 5 minutes to install or remove.

Our N55 Stage1 is also fully compatible with the F30 335. Just saw a nice customer dyno, 325rw (up from 275rw stock), just like E90 335s put down with the Stage1.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:46 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Michigan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mein Auto: '98 M E36/7:'06 Saab 9-5
[QUOTE=Canada1867;7208050][QUOTE=Jamesonsviggen;7207731]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1867 View Post

The gains I saw with the exhaust were in person and on the same dyno. I am confident in the reliability of those numbers.

I trully appreciate your 1st hand feedback, and not just to verify the numbers. As I'm sure you know its not just the height of the peak, but the width and shape of the whole curve AND how it feels in the butt.

So how does it feel now that you've it installed? And does the sound really live up to its billing?
I could feel the tq for sure. Loved the sound, it was the missing element. Authoritive without being too much.
__________________

E36/7: Dinan/RMS stage 2+ [email protected] of BOOST! 18" BBS LM's, too much more to list
F30: 6mt, SOLD

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt LSD, clipped turbo, 19psi, 400ft lbs of tq
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:01 AM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Thx Jamesonsviggen - exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for.

I'd love for this to become a sticky thread.

I'm sure there are lot like me in this forum, who want to tune our cars, but not sure of all the options, the latest performance parts, best providers, the pros/ the cons, or are just in the dark and justifably afraid to mess with their cars.
But since we're driving BMW's I suspect results and reliability easily trump concerns about orice (though I do feel like my pocket was picked when I paid $37 for 1/2 oz. of touch-up pain at dealer)
Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-24-2012, 12:14 PM
Canada1867 Canada1867 is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto, ON (rural, north of city)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: 2013 328i Sport iDrive 8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS View Post
We've tuned quite a few N20/N26 motors now, maybe 250? It's a solid motor and responds well to tuning. We knocked our 0-60 down to 4.9 seconds with just the tune. And the best part is it takes literally 5 minutes to install or remove.

Our N55 Stage1 is also fully compatible with the F30 335. Just saw a nice customer dyno, 325rw (up from 275rw stock), just like E90 335s put down with the Stage1.
Thank Terry, good to know others have braved the trail; as I am looking to ungrade my 2013 328ix's N20 motor. Your numbers sound attractive and realistic, but if you don't mind, I do have a couple of questions (and one's I suspect other will share...)

First, what are the material differences between your solution and the others out there - I really appreciated your openness! Why are some considerably/3-4x more expensive, and some come with their own warrenty (AC Schnitzer, Dinan)
2nd, what about the issues of not being affected by BMW software upgrades and of course not being detectable by BMW dealers. Is this just fantesy as others suggest or is there really a way to mask the tune?

3rd, I'm curious as to short and long-term reliability issues; BMW's in-house Mperformance upgrades for other models usual seemed to include added intercoolers and/or oil coolers, etc as part of package...so why not for your upgrade.

4th is there anything else I should know???

Thx in advance for your input
RJ
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.