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  #26  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:42 PM
EconoBox EconoBox is offline
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Hardly... I miss being able to fix anything on the side of the road with a half dozen wrenches, 2 screw drivers and a match book cover.
]
In the 70s and 80s, you could see cars broken down on the side of the road constantly.
Today, cars don't even break down. Spark plugs go 100k miles at least.
EFI eliminated the idea of a "tune up"
Cars is basically maintenance free until 100k miles today.
Back then, cars were junked at 100k miles.
Today, the average car on the road is 12 years, the longest on record.
Today's cars utterly destroy the trash of the past.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2019, 06:19 AM
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120k maintenance

Quote:
Originally Posted by EconoBox View Post
In the 70s and 80s, you could see cars broken down on the side of the road constantly.

Today, cars don't even break down. Spark plugs go 100k miles at least.

EFI eliminated the idea of a "tune up"

Cars is basically maintenance free until 100k miles today.

Back then, cars were junked at 100k miles.

Today, the average car on the road is 12 years, the longest on record.

Today's cars utterly destroy the trash of the past.


Every single line in that post is complete fallacy. “Today cars don’t even break down” is the most ignorant thing I’ve read all week. He difference is, on older stuff simple tools is all one needed. I put a new rear in my K5 in my college apartment driveway with a set of hand tools, dad replaced the transmission on the side of the Northway in the Adirondacks in he’s Beetle with the same. Carb adjusted with a screw driver, points set with a matchbook.

If you think cars are maintenance free until 100k, you’re the type to buy into the lifetime fluid mantra. The idea of “maintenance free” was created by marketers, not engineers. Maintenance still needs to be performed, just not the same maintenance. And now it requires more specialized tools was my point.

Spark plugs need replacement at 60k.

I see, and my friends tow, broken down new cars ALL DAY LONG.

Have you actually driven and maintained the old junk of which you speak? Because I promise my ‘84 pickup will outlive every vehicle on this board with only fluid changes and ignition tuneups. The ‘76 engine in my ‘86 has well over 200k and doesn’t burn a drop of oil. My family has never had a mechanical failure on any car going back to the ‘50s, cars were junked when they rotted out. Grandpa put 450k on his ‘72 F250 and never even replaced the clutch, his brother drove his ‘85 or ‘86 Cadillac to the junkyard in 2011 with 580k on an all original drivetrain, and that was only because the fenders were rotted out from NY winters.

Prefer what you want but don’t masquerade preference as fact. This board exists solely to aid those in maintaining and repeating their cars; if modern ones were so maintain free none of us would be here.

If cars are maintenance free today, we’ll be answering even more of your questions here in the coming years.



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2008 BMW E83 160k+ 2016 Chevy Silverado 84k+
2011 VW Jetta 120k+ 1984 GMC S-15 130k+
1986 Oldsmobile 442 130k on body 200+ on engine
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1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810

Last edited by dukedkt442; 12-07-2019 at 06:27 AM.
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2019, 07:46 AM
abscate abscate is offline
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Yeah, but how do you really feel about this, Duke?

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  #29  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:35 PM
EconoBox EconoBox is offline
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By maintenance free, I meant to say that cars get to 100k without breaking down once.
And they can reach 100k with almost zero repairs. Just gas, tires, and oil.

Synth oil changes are now 7-15k, not 3k.

Drum brakes adjustment? Nope.

Tune up? Plugs fouled constantly
Points and gaps need adjustment.
Now, people go 150k on the same plugs.
Tune up no longer exists with an EFI car.

Older cars barely even start if you let it sit for a few weeks.
Gummed up carbs and floats. Pumping that pedal and flooding the engine.

And it rusts even before leaving the showroom floor.

Old cars were unreliable crap and that is a scientific fact.
That is why they were junked at 100k
Now, 100k is just the start. Total paradigm change.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2019, 02:13 PM
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120k maintenance

So you come here asking the most basic questions about the X3, but now suddenly you’re a mechanical expert? Please learn the difference between fact and opinion.

I’ve been driving carbed vehicles all my life, still drive two, and have NONE of the issues you prescribe. My truck can sit for a month during the winter, pump it twice and it fires up. If it was not maintained sure, you’d have those issues, but same as any car. 3 of my cars, including 2011 Jetta, have drum brakes. As do the Internationals, Blue Birds and F750 I drive at work (all with air brakes, too). The only vehicles I’ve EVER had a misfire on were the ones with EFI and COPs. Neat, huh?

Yet another internet hero coming along posting garbage about things they have no experience with. Feel free to run those 15k mile oil changes and 150k mile plugs/coils, guys like me will gladly take your money to fix it.

Here’s some things for you to research, kiddo:

Ford 5.4 3v timing failure
Bmw N20 timing failure
GM AFM failure
Dodge hemi lifter tick
F150 FPDM
F150 misfire
VW 2.0T fuel pump can failure
Subaru head gasket failure

I could go on, but would be pointless.

FACT of the matter is you must do a lot of maintenance through the life of the car if you want it to outlive you. The service history of your 2010 totally belies everything you claim to think you know, by the way. Props for posting that for us.




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1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810

Last edited by dukedkt442; 12-07-2019 at 02:21 PM.
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  #31  
Old 12-07-2019, 02:40 PM
EconoBox EconoBox is offline
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If you think carbs need less maintenance than fuel injection,
If you think drum brakes need less maintenance than disc,
If you think distributor points, gaps, rotors, and caps need less maintenance than coil packs,
we'll have to agree to disagree.

Tune up? What's that?
Stuck choke thermostat? What's that?
Manual choke? What's that?
Fouled plugs? What's that?
Timing light? What's that?
Backfire? What's that?
Crash protection? Don't even go there.

Here is a sound I have not heard since Reagan was in office
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Last edited by EconoBox; 12-07-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-07-2019, 02:58 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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I’ve heard that sound on my x3 before. Hell Trump was even president.

First it was a no start no sound on every try then it just stared. Went about a week to my wife when I was on a business trip. Boy was she pissed.

Then I got home and it moved to a slow start sound like the clip just not as long then fired. I scratched my head for a day.

Then on my next drive it became a grind at start. I ordered the parts to fix the next weekend.

Yep, starter failed and I found a bad ground strap. Crap happens to all cars.



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  #33  
Old 12-07-2019, 06:37 PM
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120k maintenance

Whatever you say genius. Seeing as how every single item you posted has an exact corollary with a modern car, you’re definitely showing lack of experience.

If you flood a carb, you’re a fool.

HEI has been around since the ‘70s, doing away with points. However, at least points could be cleaned with a Emory and gapped with a matchbook and not need an Internet forum to diagnose.

Drum brakes self adjust. Disc brakes need to have their pins cleaned and lubed often to function properly. They went to discs over drums for more moderated stopping for the average yo yo, not for less maintenance. Drums actually stop better than disc, and that’s why heavy equipment continues to use them. We don’t have to constantly adjust them on our heavy equipment, by the way. Drums are still available on cars today; GM tried rear discs on their ‘99 full size trucks but couldn’t get them to stop right, so actually went back to drums up through ‘04.

My truck has a carb and has never failed to start. Original coil, 1984. My ‘86 is on its second coil, replaced for a whopping $20 earlier this Fall. Neither has ever misfired. My ‘08 X3 is on its third set of coils, at what $40-50 a piece? It lost its first coil at 80k with a godawful misfire. My ‘04 Ford F-150 went was on its third set of plugs and coils by 150k, not to mention a full VVT timing rebuild: total cost, just in parts, was $1800 (my labor). 7500 mile OCI killed our ‘11 Expedition at work by 35k miles (it ate one of its chains). I’ve taken engines apart that have been sludged or varnished to hell with 5-7.5k oil changes; BMW stepped back from their 15k mile nonsense.

Had an ‘09 Tiguan come in the other day with a misfire on #1, new plugs and coils fixed that. Many manufacturers have stepped back and recommend 60k on the plugs. I’ve also never had spark plugs snap on anything like they do on the 5.4 Fords (the ones that didn’t have the problem of firing them out of the heads, that is).

A timing light is a simple device that allows one to set the time of their engine, very easily. Now, if the PCM can’t do that, you’re SOL. Yes, I’ve often hear that sound clip you posted, on FI cars that have flooded (yes it’s possible), or those that have bad crank or cam sensors (items my truck doesn’t have and therefore can’t fail).

New is different, not necessarily better. More reliable for the average yo yo who trades it in by 100k miles, maybe but not more reliable. I use the term reliable to mean “not leaving me stranded somewhere.” If you really think your car is more reliable than my ‘84 truck, your membership is going to be awesome. I look forward to helping you out when the need arises. I’m not saying that the old stuff is impervious, but it’s not the rolling breakdown waiting to happen either. I didn’t get my first FI car until the early 2000s, and I can honestly, 100% positive say that they’ve been far more costly to maintain, both in parts and my time than anything that came before them.

Before this thread got totally derailed, extensive maintenance items were posted. A poor carpenter blames the tools.




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1978 Honda Hobbit 2.6k+ 1961 Cub Cadet Original
1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810

Last edited by dukedkt442; 12-07-2019 at 06:38 PM.
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  #34  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:12 PM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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Every driver has to demonstrate proficiency with code reader and coil/ plug replacement inroad to get keys issued.
It's prison if one gets oil light and drives home?
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2019, 12:22 AM
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Econobox is a United States informal slang term for a small, boxy, fuel-efficient economy car with few luxuries and a low price. The term is typically used for cars from the 1970s and 1980s dgcustomerfirst _sl_

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  #36  
Old 12-14-2019, 02:00 PM
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Looks like this person believes in “maintenance free” as well.
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2008 BMW E83 160k+ 2016 Chevy Silverado 84k+
2011 VW Jetta 120k+ 1984 GMC S-15 130k+
1986 Oldsmobile 442 130k on body 200+ on engine
1978 Honda Hobbit 2.6k+ 1961 Cub Cadet Original
1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810
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  #37  
Old 12-14-2019, 02:27 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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Originally Posted by EconoBox View Post
By maintenance free, I meant to say that cars get to 100k without breaking down once.
And they can reach 100k with almost zero repairs. Just gas, tires, and oil.

Sorry for rehashing this but came across this picture today and it reminded me of my first post....ahhh the memories.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=565575

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No car is immune to a breakdown in under 100k miles.



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  #38  
Old 12-14-2019, 02:30 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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120k maintenance

If you get bored happy to tell you a story about a Chrysler I bought brand new in 05 that went through 4 engines during the 7/70 mile power train warranty.

Last edited by x3brian; 12-14-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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  #39  
Old 12-14-2019, 03:05 PM
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went through 4 engines during the 7/70 mile power train warranty.
Well, that usually-black knob on the top of the engine is where you should put in oil occasionally ...
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  #40  
Old 12-14-2019, 03:08 PM
EconoBox EconoBox is offline
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Sorry for rehashing this but came across this picture today and it reminded me of my first post....ahhh the memories.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=565575


No car is immune to a breakdown in under 100k miles.
Wow, that is totally unheard of.
Maybe if you had not messed with the fluids, maybe you would not have broken down at 61k.
Rule #1 in auto maintenance: Let sleeping dogs lie.

Did you adjust the timing advance, clean the spark plug gap, fix the choke, and clean the carbs while it was in for service? HAHAHA
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  #41  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:11 PM
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Looks like this person believes in “maintenance free” as well.
Attachment 875329


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Awe. Duke did you stop and help?
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  #42  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:24 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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-

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  #43  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:34 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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Originally Posted by EconoBox View Post
Wow, that is totally unheard of.
Maybe if you had not messed with the fluids, maybe you would not have broken down at 61k.
Rule #1 in auto maintenance: Let sleeping dogs lie.

Did you adjust the timing advance, clean the spark plug gap, fix the choke, and clean the carbs while it was in for service? HAHAHA


Spoken by the guy who is about to change his differential fluid....

In all seriousness though, this was truly an installation defect. The driver side axle seal at the differential blew out. Keep in mind BMW stood behind it and covered it 11k miles outside of warranty. The shop foreman personally showed me the failed parts. He was excited to show me his findings.

In addition it was the dealer that did the differential fluid change 4 months prior at 50k miles. No cause and effect....done every diff fluid change myself since with no issues as with plenty of other festers....

Keep in mind I’m at 251k trouble free miles other than this and my car still drives and looks new. Every other issue has been maintenance related and an expected failure item for an n52.


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  #44  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:42 PM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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Well, that usually-black knob on the top of the engine is where you should put in oil occasionally ...


God I wish that was the case!

First engine developed an oil leak at 45k miles. What should have been a simple fix ended up being a warranty money grab by an Autonation Chrysler dealership. Over the next 20k miles they tore the first engine down 4 times never fixing the issue causing it to ultimately blow a head gasket but I still made it home/dealer.

Then they replaced it with two separate long blocks both had bent valves that sounded like a singer sewing machine.

By the time I got it back with number 3 I found a new dealer that built me a short block onsite. Drove amazing for another 200k miles. Still running great for the guy I sold it to.

Funny story dealer two got me in contact with Chrysler customer service....that auto nation dealer got over 48k in warranty money from Chrysler. No wonder they went bankrupt!


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  #45  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by EconoBox View Post
Wow, that is totally unheard of.
Maybe if you had not messed with the fluids, maybe you would not have broken down at 61k.
Rule #1 in auto maintenance: Let sleeping dogs lie.

Did you adjust the timing advance, clean the spark plug gap, fix the choke, and clean the carbs while it was in for service? HAHAHA


No it’s not unheard of. If you had ANY mechanical experience fixing and repairing vehicles instead of rehashing old myths you’d see how asinine you sound. I’ve NEVER cleaned a carb on any vehicle, and wouldn’t you know it, my ‘84 is the most trustworthy vehicle in my fleet, which includes a ‘16. Please leave mechanical advice to the professionals, kiddo.

A modern vehicle is probably MORE apt to leave you stranded, as there’s not much that one can do on the side of the highway with a simple set of hand tools to get you home.


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2008 BMW E83 160k+ 2016 Chevy Silverado 84k+
2011 VW Jetta 120k+ 1984 GMC S-15 130k+
1986 Oldsmobile 442 130k on body 200+ on engine
1978 Honda Hobbit 2.6k+ 1961 Cub Cadet Original
1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810
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  #46  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:07 PM
EconoBox EconoBox is offline
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LOL, remember when cars would not even idle
......... without you constantly pressing the gas pedal before it stalled ?
Good times!

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  #47  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:16 PM
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If you get bored happy to tell you a story about a Chrysler I bought brand new in 05 that went through 4 engines during the 7/70 mile power train warranty.


2.7 liter engine sludge monster?


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2008 BMW E83 160k+ 2016 Chevy Silverado 84k+
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1986 Oldsmobile 442 130k on body 200+ on engine
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1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
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  #48  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EconoBox View Post
LOL, remember when cars would not even idle
......... without you constantly pressing the gas pedal before it stalled ?
Good times!



Holy crap you’re an idiot. That’s a big block car with a very lumpy, probably non-stock, cam, no sh!t it’s going to idle rough. You know what a camshaft is, don’t you? Press the gas to set the choke... the horror!

I guess you’ve never heard of injector problems , timing chain guide problems, or any number of a myriad amount of electrical issues a modern car has.

I’ll repeat: I still drive two carbed cars and have had to to nothing of what you claim I need to. I replaced the coil in my Olds this year, the truck’s is original. The X3 has gone through 18 so far. Go back to your bridge, troll.


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2008 BMW E83 160k+ 2016 Chevy Silverado 84k+
2011 VW Jetta 120k+ 1984 GMC S-15 130k+
1986 Oldsmobile 442 130k on body 200+ on engine
1978 Honda Hobbit 2.6k+ 1961 Cub Cadet Original
1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810

Last edited by dukedkt442; 12-14-2019 at 05:57 PM.
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  #49  
Old 12-14-2019, 05:22 PM
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Awe. Duke did you stop and help?


Negative. Halfway through my 200 mile commute, I had a boat to catch!


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2008 BMW E83 160k+ 2016 Chevy Silverado 84k+
2011 VW Jetta 120k+ 1984 GMC S-15 130k+
1986 Oldsmobile 442 130k on body 200+ on engine
1978 Honda Hobbit 2.6k+ 1961 Cub Cadet Original
1962 Springfield Gem 1965 Jacobsen Chief
1977 Bolens G9 1992 Jacobsen 810
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  #50  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:12 PM
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2.7 liter engine sludge monster?


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Close the 2.4L.


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