2013 328i xDrive F30 (Timing Chain?) I hope not - Page 3 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F34 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #51  
Old 12-04-2019, 04:00 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by PK2348 View Post
am having a hard time believing 13 328 got sold for 14K. Options generally make little difference in price on used cars. At 74K it passed the ELW related to TC. Maybe your friend got lucky. Anything is possible, but it still remains anecdotal type of evidence.

I don't see how OP's car can be worth anything more that 6 to 8k depending where you buy it.
Yes anything on public forums is anecdotal. To get some extra data points, there are online sites to get estimates.

E.g. typing in a local zip code in nada and selecting all options available for a 2013 328ix with 75k miles yields a clean trade of $13k and clean retail of $15k. It is unclear if my colleague's ride had everything, but it does have tech + M-sport + HID + driver assist.

Adjusting mileage from 75k to 126k yields clean trade of $9k and clean retail of $11.5k. And if no option is added, then those numbers will become $7k clean trade and $9k clean retail, with average trade of $5k, and rough trade of $4k.

And nada is usually close to auction price, which is lower than kbb and edmunds.

Last edited by namelessman; 12-04-2019 at 06:49 PM.
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  #52  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:48 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
There are other local festers that reported that their entire neighborhoods deflect from 3-series(and other makes + models) to Model 3, in a high volume group F market(and 3-series being high volume in the lineup), so it is not unique among my contacts.
You live in the Bay Area so it makes sense that Model 3 density is high. When I visit my sister who lives near Palo Alto, Teslaís are everywhere.
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  #53  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:55 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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Guy is coming out this week , may sell it for around 9.5-10k or so.


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  #54  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:57 AM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
Guy is coming out this week , may sell it for around 9.5-10k or so.


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No remorse for passing these problems down to someone else? Or you disclosing everything?
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  #55  
Old 12-05-2019, 11:02 AM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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I changed my mind and Iím not selling it, honestly no obviously I wouldnít. I checked everything, my chain and everything is fine, these cars are not blowing up by the 100s and 1000s. I know people with 160k with original chain and guides. If there was something wrong with it I would disclose it. But there isnít. End of convo. Unless you own an n20/26 and your motor blew up, then you can input your result. The class action will be resolved soon and we should get an answer by then. You also drive a VW. So what do you even know about this issue??? People sneakily dump issues on others all the time. You need to understand in the end someone is getting screwed.


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  #56  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:09 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
I changed my mind and Iím not selling it, honestly no obviously I wouldnít. I checked everything, my chain and everything is fine, these cars are not blowing up by the 100s and 1000s. I know people with 160k with original chain and guides. If there was something wrong with it I would disclose it. But there isnít. End of convo. Unless you own an n20/26 and your motor blew up, then you can input your result. The class action will be resolved soon and we should get an answer by then. You also drive a VW. So what do you even know about this issue??? People sneakily dump issues on others all the time. You need to understand in the end someone is getting screwed.


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Good choice. But know you need to decide if you will have this repaired before it has a chance to blow up. With 126K on the clock, i would not expect much from the ongoing lawsuit. Highly doubtful they would extend coverage that far.
Of course people always get screwed, and in every scenario there is a 2nd party involved who is doing the screwing. That is a choice to be made.
I assume you decided to learn to live with a stiff throttle pedal?
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  #57  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:14 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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Do these things just fail with chain and guide intact? Iím trying to understand why some people are pushing over 150k and others blowing up at like 79k


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  #58  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:41 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
Do these things just fail with chain and guide intact? Iím trying to understand why some people are pushing over 150k and others blowing up at like 79k


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No one can answer that with any degree of certainty, except for BMW, and they will not disclose this info voluntary. In addition, they would probably lack info on engines that blew up outside of the warranty period.
In my personal opinion, ASS is probably one of the largest factors that effect durability of the guides. This is my opinion, not scientific at all, so there is a chance it is completely wrong.
Given you've bought your car used, you have no idea how it was driven by the previous owners.
On a plus side your engine lasted to 126K. So you decide if you feel lucky and will take a chance, or eat a 2-3k repair bill and have this taken care off.
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  #59  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:58 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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I will say this, ASS is off on this car, OCI is 5k a bit under sometimes 4.7k. I also read somewhere that eco pro mode actually causes the motor to oscillate more causing chain slack which makes sense. Iím confused. I thought when the chain snaps it destroyed the motor? How much is a used motor replacement ? Parts and labor, Iím literally seeing motors for like 2.8k used.


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  #60  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:00 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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Previous owner had ASS coded off.


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  #61  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:08 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
I will say this, ASS is off on this car, OCI is 5k a bit under sometimes 4.7k. I also read somewhere that eco pro mode actually causes the motor to oscillate more causing chain slack which makes sense. Iím confused. I thought when the chain snaps it destroyed the motor? How much is a used motor replacement ? Parts and labor, Iím literally seeing motors for like 2.8k used.


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The initial cause of this failure are the plastic guides
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  #62  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:09 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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And what is causing the guides to fail?


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  #63  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:26 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
I will say this, ASS is off on this car, OCI is 5k a bit under sometimes 4.7k. I also read somewhere that eco pro mode actually causes the motor to oscillate more causing chain slack which makes sense. Iím confused. I thought when the chain snaps it destroyed the motor? How much is a used motor replacement ? Parts and labor, Iím literally seeing motors for like 2.8k used.


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What does oscillate mean in this regard?
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  #64  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:35 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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I donít know, I think the chain rotates slower and less tension is out on by the tensioner? Iím still trying to understand this.


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  #65  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:53 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
I don't know, I think the chain rotates slower and less tension is out on by the tensioner? I'm still trying to understand this.


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There is no technical analysis/data on ASS, but some attribute TC issue with frequent start, and ASS does contribute to that.

Do note the TC tensioner is spring loaded with engine off, and switches to oil pressure with engine on.

The crankshaft, and hence TC rotates in one direction, however, any accelerate/decelerate is what stresses the TC and the plastic guides.

One theory behind ECO being stressful is that, lower gears/lower engine rpm are chosen to save gas, but when merge/accelerate is needed, users need to rev up more, and hence more load on TC.
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  #66  
Old 12-05-2019, 03:50 PM
JoeyMcMahon666 JoeyMcMahon666 is offline
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https://techmax.ca/BMW-repair/proble...-timing-chain/


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  #67  
Old 12-05-2019, 06:14 PM
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Folgen Sie Mir Folgen Sie Mir is online now
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Is it possible it's just as simple as the plastics heat cycle enough they become brittle and break. Who supplies the guides to BMW, lowest bidder???
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  #68  
Old 12-05-2019, 06:55 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
https://techmax.ca/BMW-repair/proble...-timing-chain/


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These E90 folks experience engine oscillation at low rpm. Oscillation in this context seems to mean the rpm surges and drops, hence oscillates. This type of oscillation, or accelerate and decelerate, does hurt TC and guides.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1370760
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  #69  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:09 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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I also read somewhere that eco pro mode actually causes the motor to oscillate more causing chain slack which makes sense.
Rpm oscillation caused by fast 8AT shifts is seldom discussed in the context of N20/N26 timing chain issues, but it makes sense frequent and quick changes in rpm can yank the TC and guides back and forth.
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  #70  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:12 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeyMcMahon666 View Post
https://techmax.ca/BMW-repair/proble...-timing-chain/


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Maybe itís different on Canadian cars but in the US default mode is Comfort not Eco. Iím very confident that itís the same all over the world. This makes me question his theory.
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  #71  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:15 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Rpm oscillation caused by fast 8AT shifts is seldom discussed in the context of N20/N26 timing chain issues, but it makes sense frequent and quick changes in rpm can yank the TC and guides back and forth.
I donít think oscillation is the proper term. Oscillation means rotating at the same speed. In cars this only happens when you are at a constant speed and is what an engine is designed to do. Crankshafts rotate.
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  #72  
Old 12-05-2019, 07:49 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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I donít think oscillation is the proper term. Oscillation means rotating at the same speed. In cars this only happens when you are at a constant speed and is what an engine is designed to do. Crankshafts rotate.
The threads in post#66 and 68 use the term oscillation to refer to rpm moving up and down.

Crankshafts do rotate in one direction, but as it speeds up or slows down(in tandem with the shifts), the TC(even rotating in same direction) also goes through repeated speed-up and slow-down, and that can stress TC further.
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  #73  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:56 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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An observation was made on my N26 + 8AT in comfort mode, the rpm did oscillate between 2.5k to 4kpm in a fixed frequency with it quickly went up to 8th gear.

Having said that, my thought is that the oscillating(and regularity) does not matter as much as the number of shifts(both up and down). E.g. compared to E39/E46 5AT, and E60/E90 6AT, the F30 ZF 8AT shifts that much more than 5AT and 6AT.

os∑cil∑late

1.
move or swing back and forth at a regular speed.
"a pendulum oscillates about its lowest point"

2. Physics:
vary in magnitude or position in a regular manner around a central point.
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  #74  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:25 AM
John MS John MS is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Rpm oscillation caused by fast 8AT shifts is seldom discussed in the context of N20/N26 timing chain issues, but it makes sense frequent and quick changes in rpm can yank the TC and guides back and forth.
Yes the zf 8 speed transmission will change gears with greater frequency but it will keep rpm's within a narrower band than say a 5 speed. So cumulative engine revolutions will differ. Also the zf 8 speed is used by other car brands. BMW is the only brand I'm aware of that has a problem with early chain guide failure.

The guides should be secure so there shouldn't be any yanking back and forth.
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  #75  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:00 PM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Folgen Sie Mir View Post
Is it possible it's just as simple as the plastics heat cycle enough they become brittle and break. Who supplies the guides to BMW, lowest bidder???
This makes the most sense. It starts with plastic coming apart, and even small particles clogging oil pump.

I put a Scangauge on my X1 s28i, and immediately noticed Eco-Pro runs temps from approx 215 deg f to 236 deg f when driving easy. That was never used again nor ASS.

Car is a dream to drive.....who needs those extra troubles. My gauge also shows the gas consumption while idling at .21 gallons per hour. Wow! I can idle for 5 hours before using ONE GALLON.

No reason to use those overkill engine killers.
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