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Old 04-09-2017, 12:21 AM
JAY11 JAY11 is offline
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Hiss/Psshhh Whinny Grinding Sound After Turning Key To On Position

2000 Z3 2.3 Auto 85k Miles

I have noticed every time I turn the key to on/2 position I hear this hiss/psshhh whining or grinding sound from I think firewall area towards the bottom. If I turn the key off and repeat it sounds afresh each time. It lasts for a second or two then goes silent and starts normally.

Recently I was getting this same sound at a level I noticed was just increasing. After hunting the forums there was a suggestion to check PS Fluid level. Sure enough I was low...about half. Topped with ATF and I think the sound went back down to previous level thereafter. It's been two weeks since topping and PS Fluid level is the same. Or maybe there's no link at all bet. the sound or even increased sound level and PS...maybe that is just my mind playing tricks on me. Anyway the car is dead quiet after turning engine off. I also read that GM cars will have this sound when pressurizing fuel pump after turning key to ON position. Well I thought to check with you guys as I have never owned a bimmer before. Is this a normal Z3 pre-start sound?
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2017, 05:41 AM
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vintage42 vintage42 is offline
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Google bmw z3 secondary air pump. It runs briefly after startup. I don't think it should make the noises you are hearing. My engine does not have one.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:36 AM
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SAP shouldn't be running unless the engine is running. Are you saying you are at engine startup or just turning the key? if so, make sure all your HVAC is off and recheck. The IAC does make some noise, when in pos 2 and should be located left of the ODB-1 input. Fuel pump is in-tank, it does make noise briefly, but not heard near the firewall.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:19 PM
JAY11 JAY11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage42 View Post
Google bmw z3 secondary air pump. It runs briefly after startup. I don't think it should make the noises you are hearing. My engine does not have one.
Did so and I am continuing to read up. However, my situation is not after startup. The sound comes up after turning the key to position 2 without attempting to crank the car. How come your eng. does not have one?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
SAP shouldn't be running unless the engine is running. Are you saying you are at engine startup or just turning the key? if so, make sure all your HVAC is off and recheck. The IAC does make some noise, when in pos 2 and should be located left of the ODB-1 input. Fuel pump is in-tank, it does make noise briefly, but not heard near the firewall.
Just turning the key to ON position and not cranking it. Yes all that stuff is off.
I made two vids - sound from inside and the other from underneath, right under the driver's seat. The second sounds way more harsh. I guess the sound has no bass to it.



Last edited by JAY11; 04-09-2017 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:24 PM
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This sounds like fuel priming. The filter is under the driver's seat.
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Old 04-09-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
This sounds like fuel priming. The filter is under the driver's seat.
Is that a normal Z3 occurrence?
How can I test to ensure that that is the case and not something else?
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY11 View Post
Is that a normal Z3 occurrence?
How can I test to ensure that that is the case and not something else?
Get a stethoscope and touch the fuel filter while someone turns the key. Ours is quite loud as well, especially after changing the filter.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:54 AM
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Jay,
Re secondary air pump, I don't know why my 1997 (10/96) 1.9 does not have the system. Other 4s, and the 6s, have them.
Re fuel pump priming, I can't hear mine, if it even does it.
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:32 PM
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The sound is coming from the fuel filter. Moved the stethoscope around and in the engine but nothing sounds as loud through the steth. as when I touch the FF.
After much reading on the SAP, I don't have any CEL codes and that the SAP comes on after the car starts it looks like those factors eliminate the SAP.
I am in the process of ordering a FF replacement the car being 85k miles. Unless this gets really worse for now I will chalk it up to FF and keep an eye on it and keep reading. I still have much to learn.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY11 View Post
The sound is coming from the fuel filter... I am in the process of ordering a FF replacement the car being 85k miles...
I don't see how a filter could make a sound.
It t takes a long time for the fuel filter to need replacement. It is so large. Here is one cut open at your miles looking pretty clean.
https://zroadster.org/threads/didnt-it-do-well.4608/
Here is somebody with 400,000 miles on their filter -- it probably needs replacement.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=10

Last edited by vintage42; 04-10-2017 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:39 PM
JAY11 JAY11 is offline
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Logically thinking about it, it doesn't make any sense why ff would be making the sound. Yet the whooosh sound's largest concentration is emanating from that location. I will jack up the car, remove the ff cover, steth. it and revert.

On the other hand I know you were pointing towards SAP but that only comes on after the car starts? Remember I am not starting nor attempting to start. Just turning the key to position 2 or ON. So it would seem maybe the sound is something else altogether?
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:56 AM
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Yes, it must not be the SAP. I don't have one to hear, and was mistaken that it came on with the key.
It does sound like fuel in the filter making the whooshing sound. But that would only happen the first time you turned the key, assuming the filter is not always filled with gas. But the whoosh happens every time the key is repeatedly turned. And I do think the filter does not drain itself and is always full of gas.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:16 AM
JAY11 JAY11 is offline
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Me thinking aloud it sounds like it has to do with an electronic that gets turned on than a liquid whoosh, then again I really don't know for sure. But I will jack it up and hopefully I the new filter should be here not too long from now.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:30 AM
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FWIW, changing the fuel filter, it is a good opportunity to replace the regulator vacuum hoses with silicone. There should also be a small hose under the engine cover as well as next to the fuel filter.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY11 View Post
... the new filter should be here not too long from now.
In case you need...
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...3#post26221203
and
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:04 PM
JAY11 JAY11 is offline
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Thanx for the vid!
Great tip on regulator vacuum hoses with silicone. After reading / Googling which ones they are I cannot figure out all the pipes you are referring to. Need your help as to the correct ones.

I put last 7 on Realoem - Can you point me in the right direction, as to which hoses I need to order thanx!
Link and screen shot

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=13_1736



Last edited by JAY11; 04-13-2017 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY11 View Post
Thanx for the vid!
Great tip on regulator vacuum hoses with silicone. After reading / Googling which ones they are I cannot figure out all the pipes you are referring to. Need your help as to the correct ones.

I put last 7 on Realoem - Can you point me in the right direction, as to which hoses I need to order thanx!
Link and screen shot

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=13_1736


#16, you can find silicone variants with the right angle as well. Our OE tubing was literally falling apart.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:01 PM
JAY11 JAY11 is offline
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Whoa! One needs to be a magician to get 13531437282 in silicone. Outta where do you guys smoke these parts out?
Also you said there "There should also be a small hose under the engine cover as well as next to the fuel filter." Besides #16 which are the other ones?
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY11 View Post
Whoa! One needs to be a magician to get 13531437282 in silicone. Outta where do you guys smoke these parts out?
Also you said there "There should also be a small hose under the engine cover as well as next to the fuel filter." Besides #16 which are the other ones?
I get mine here:

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...ld-by-the-Foot

On some cars, like our 2000 Z3, there is a fuel pressure regulator pipe and hose that runs from next to the fuel filter to the engine manifold. Not all cars have this. My E39M5 also has the regulator next to the fuel filter, and a similar piping to the manifold (TB#7).
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
I get mine here:

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...ld-by-the-Foot

On some cars, like our 2000 Z3, there is a fuel pressure regulator pipe and hose that runs from next to the fuel filter to the engine manifold. Not all cars have this. My E39M5 also has the regulator next to the fuel filter, and a similar piping to the manifold (TB#7).
Really appreciate the pointer there. I like the idea of converting to silicone tubing. In fact whatever tubing that's recommended for conversion I would like to do, in addition to this, now or as we go. I see they have different thicknesses. I am completely new with this car or this undertaking and since I am on the road I have no idea on sizing/thickness - what thickness did you get that worked out for you on this car?

Noticed this "Do not use in fuel or oil applications" is this a real concern? Never used silicone tubing in cars before so I have no clue there.

You referenced "piping to the manifold (TB#7)" but 7 is a Hex nut?
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY11 View Post
Really appreciate the pointer there. I like the idea of converting to silicone tubing. In fact whatever tubing that's recommended for conversion I would like to do, in addition to this, now or as we go. I see they have different thicknesses. I am completely new with this car or this undertaking and since I am on the road I have no idea on sizing/thickness - what thickness did you get that worked out for you on this car?

Noticed this "Do not use in fuel or oil applications" is this a real concern? Never used silicone tubing in cars before so I have no clue there.

You referenced "piping to the manifold (TB#7)" but 7 is a Hex nut?


It should be BMW standard 3.5mm or 1/8". I buy it in a roll or get a few 90 degree pieces. Silicone is great in non-abrasion situations like the fuel pressure regulator, and also the hose to the SAP.


The pipe to the #7 throttle body is for our E39M5, as an example of how some BMWs have the regulator attached to the fuel pump, and a vacuum piped to the intake. The E39M5 has no intake 'manifold', so they use a throttle body for vacuum.

Our 2000 Z3 M52TUB has such piping. Not all Z3s have a regulator on the fuel pump. Sorry for the confusion. If your regulator is on the engine fuel rail itself, then you probably have just a few vacuum lines right there to the manifold.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:31 PM
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Thanx again-will check what I have.
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