M62TU Thermostat low temperature calibration ?? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:14 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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M62TU Thermostat low temperature calibration ??

Anyone in our realm use one of these with success for over a year or two? Summer is almost here. R&R new OEM water pump/ t-stat 2016...hoses; tranny coolant valve; radiator ; clutch.
Then blew up (cracked an OE/ BMW expansion tank (in traffic) last July...have a new one.
Now, eye-balling an 8C (map controlled t-stat circuit) code....and recalling just getting that car off the road fast enough but way over 120C... Maybe time to toss that somewhat new thermostat.
AND THEN I SAW THIS: A re-calibrated electric OEM unit >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-OEM-90C...d=262753265603

ANYONE USE THIS? If so for how long and how is it working out in high ambient conditions?
TIA.
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:36 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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Makes sense...except the price, $200.00!
Kinda like the $600.00 radiator.

Be nice to know where/how to re-program you can re-program the unit.

Mahalo,
Hb
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2019, 03:05 PM
528iAut 528iAut is online now
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Not really sure what you are trying to convey here but you can program the buffer if you dare.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...=432457&page=8
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2019, 03:12 PM
atobe atobe is offline
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You can try the 88C thermostat route.
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2019, 03:31 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Buffer on the temp guage

I *think* the engineers (who gave us plastic radiators) set the buffer to read 12 o'clok on the temp dial as long as coolant temp stayed between 75 deg. C and 108 deg. C. I'm for real open the thermostat up at a lower temp and not let my engine and engine rubber cook as much and get hard now that I have replaced much of that rubber turned to hard plastic.
had that Ron Davis rad on an old Jaguar that heated up like a pot belly stove but was highly tuned (10.3;1 CR) reworked original! dizzy...265 HP to the rear wheels!! I used every trick for cooling. Custom twin low amp fans; Tried distilled h2O and special water wetters and some pump lube...but, stuck w/ the Zerex G-05 I have used on all alloy heads.

Yea, that $200 vs mid$60's for a new OEM kinda gets one's attention. Therefore i'm putting feelers out. E39 engines need not run so hot...need to slow down the aging under the hood and transmission.
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:47 PM
Santaclaus4 Santaclaus4 is offline
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I checked out the link and it was full of leading statements, errors and plain old lies!!! It's like a speech from a politician.
The more you have to convince someone it's a worthy product, the less worthy the product is. Think about it...
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Last edited by Santaclaus4; 03-14-2019 at 10:49 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2019, 11:39 AM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Santaclause

Speak with facts please.
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:04 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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4th,

I read an interesting suggestion from JimLev, about heating the spring on the T-Stat.
That drops the temp needed to open the 'Stat.
He has reported a tempt reading avg 100 to 103 in the summer, with AC.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...2tu-thermostat

Something any WalMart shopper would be proud of!
Sorry Jim, couldn't help it...
Of course, I can't wait to open my T-Stat, and get to heatin'.

Cletus
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:30 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Humm, more and more pointing to a bad t-stat. Engine Failsafe Program

Tried go drive the car today earlier and started dying and stops and idle needed help. Brought it home, charged it to 94%. Tried going out again and Engine Fail Safe Program kicked in at startup. Sut it down quickly and looking into the T -stat again. >> On "Tim's site" again: https://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/BMW_M6...e_Problems.htm

Engine service light still on and the 8C (Peak) code from before ...map controlled circuit....t-stat failure??? Great and on a late Friday.

>> >> My files say new H2O pump Graf; 10/2016 and new T-stat OEM Behr 10/2016...Haha, just outa 2 yr warranty * I can not get a stable OHM reading on this thermostat* Otherwise, sorry i looked at Tim's site...scared me. T-stat otherwise "looks" fine as do connector and wiring.

Last edited by 4thBMW; 03-15-2019 at 05:01 PM. Reason: add info
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:39 PM
Santaclaus4 Santaclaus4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thBMW View Post
Speak with facts please.
Fair enough...
I re read the AD and honestly there is barely a sentence in it that isn't misleading. I'll copy and paste just one of them:

-Run your engine hotter in the city or low engine loads 105-110C to get better mpg and less emissions with REDUCED POWER OUTPUT, because they think you don't need it in the city, so to save mpg. May be a good innovative idea. -run it cool on the highway 90-98C to get full POWER OUTPUT.

A hotter (by design, not overheating) engine does have improved emissions and fuel economy. It doesn't make less power. They also don't run at different temps on the highway. My car runs the same temp all the time unless you are flooring it up a hill, then the temp drops.
I'm not gonna address each fallacy. Their thermostat may even be a good one. I don't know. The AD alone disgusts me. It's like pulling into an oil change shop and having them sound the klaxons and exclaiming your lucky you made it cause your car is gonna explode...
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2019, 05:08 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Just want to know I anyone has used these themostats

however, may be academic now as I'm in Fail Safe Program now and I can't get a good resistance reading on my T-stat....so, getting a new one asap. That said thanks.
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2019, 05:30 PM
Santaclaus4 Santaclaus4 is offline
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I've had the "ENGINE IN FAILSAFE PROG" warning myself. It was related to the throttle body. A regular code reader won't show it I don't think. I know my old generic code reader didn't show it. I bought a more modern Autel scan tool and it showed it. I also have INPA and that shows everything.
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If you put cheap parts on your car, you'll soon have a cheap parts car.
The law doesn't determine right from wrong. They are unrelated.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2019, 07:08 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Failsafe Program Mode

Funny, after charging the car some more, I cleared a host of codes from the fail-safe startup. I then started the car and it acted normally as I did my prior errand. No problem, except the # 62 code (Peak) evap. valve that always plagues me when the weather gets hot. Drove fine. idled as it should with/ without a/c on and warming up. Still cant get anything near 12 ohms across the Thermostat leads. Getting a new t-stat Monday.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2019, 07:58 AM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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I did not know that the M62TU V-8 engine was the 1st to use

a map controlled coolant temp regulation on a mass production vehicle.

I still have the 8C Peak code after driving for a while seemingly all normal with "core engine temp test" running *except* when deliberately" lugging" the car and putting under load in different conditions, only the fans cam on. So, still ordering new BEHR t-stat. I have to assume The test is saying the heater element is having trouble on the high end 108-110degC opening the t-stat to give lower temp called for. The ECU still compensates for detonation.

https://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum...ormal-t113398/

Last edited by 4thBMW; 03-17-2019 at 08:08 AM. Reason: spelling and add
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2019, 01:10 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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haolibird...i read all the othere forum posts from your link above

Yes, all very interesting. The 88degC (non-mapped) t-stat is available. I read all of Jim Lev's tinkering, temp results and other fiddling. Nobody asked what the exhaust cat converters think of lower temps if your mapped (boiled/ heated) spring or non-mapped spring for that matter opens early all the time inducing the ECU to go rich. One thing is for sure, I know more now. I know these stock '02 540 engines get 300k mi. on the metal parts! and I'm 1/2 way there. Oh, well, have thought too much about all this....It was much easier with a 1940's design engine where I could feed it all the fuel vs the air I could get into it and mechanically adjust the carbs for volumetric efficiency, use and oversized rad., coller working t-stat and Brad Penn 20-50wt lube every 1000 mi. Lol.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:32 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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4th,

Yeah, certainly can get to the overthinking on these cars.

I appreciate your scholarship on this, as I was following along with great interest.

Best,
T
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:32 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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4th,

Yeah, certainly can get to the overthinking on these cars.

I appreciate your scholarship on this, as I was following along with great interest.

Best,
T
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:53 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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thats for the e60 550, not the 540

n62 not m62

Id stay away from that all around, someone just took a brand new stat and just altered it a little to get it to run lower then the performance stat that is already available to buy (and then charged more)

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=716648

Mfg Part #
11537586885-90C
90degree.. 100 bucks

but none of this matters because its for the e60 not the e39

this has been discussed quite a bit: Im firmly for not lowering your temp.. It will not save your cooling system or prevent you from overheating.. the only thing that will save you is a proper working cooling system..

changing the operation temp will change your fuel ratio: so with out a remap of the intake air temp and manifold pressure.. its going to be closer to if not out of range
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Last edited by Burning2nd; 03-19-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2019, 04:13 AM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Yes, it seem that even with an 88degC m62TU44 t-stat

if available: Bmw E38 E39 E53 M62TUB44 Vemo 88C 190F Thermostat 11512248542 still as you say, Burning, gets *me* in South Fla. still up in that 103-106degC range in the long 95degF+ summer season where my ambient air temp reads 100degF or more....and rain. guess we can be thankful that we have multiple vendors supping a huge parts selection for the E38/39's at reasonable prices with quick shipping. Never hurts to keep a few spare parts in case of an untimely need.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:15 AM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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I've been running between 100 - 108, with an avg of 106.
Should be interesting when the 619 heats up this summer.

Thanks again,
T
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  #21  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:27 AM
tpao6spd tpao6spd is offline
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The M62TU engine was engineered to run at high temperature, unlike the S62 engines. It does put a lot more stress on cooling components. If you want to reduce cooling system failure, maybe going to waterless coolant will help reduce the stress, but not the operating temperature.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2019, 02:33 PM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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That's a thought...waterless.

I think back to blowing hoses, etc in the 1988 E32 picking up someone at LAX and not getting off the 101 in time to save my head in Ventura...you can just cook an car on the 101 south into LA.
I did do something productive last weekend while wrapping my tranny electric cable wires and slipping some new plastic flex pipe over them...I pulled a handful of oak leaves out of my radiator and behind those flap openings.
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  #23  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:26 AM
ninetyseven ninetyseven is offline
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88C thermostat, and to avoid any thermostat error codes (not CEL's) cut the thermosat wires and install a 12 ohm 100watt resistor. I have run this combo for over 5 years , no issues and no errors or codes. Car runs at 90C around town. hot factory thermostat is the reason cooling system fails, gaskets leak and timing guides go out.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-vemo-par...512248542~vmo/

Last edited by ninetyseven; 03-21-2019 at 07:31 AM.
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  #24  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:54 AM
Santaclaus4 Santaclaus4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninetyseven View Post
hot factory thermostat is the reason cooling system fails, gaskets leak and timing guides go out.
No disrespect intended but I don't believe that's quite true. Higher relative coolant temperature does relate to higher coolant pressure. The radiator and overflow tank have a couple week points that weren't engineered properly to withstand the "pressure cycles" as long as we expect them to last. Basically the radiator or overflow tank fail sooner and "typically" more catastrophically than we expect from most cars and trucks. The timing chain guides are more anecdotal. I really wish we had more exacting data on what causes them to fail. Mine are well into the typical fail age (150,000-200,000) miles. I'm just waiting...
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If you put cheap parts on your car, you'll soon have a cheap parts car.
The law doesn't determine right from wrong. They are unrelated.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:44 AM
4thBMW 4thBMW is offline
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Hi Santa

I changed out my M62TU chain tensioner cartridge not long ago for the second time now in 150,000 mi. so, I'm on my 3rd. I saw no real difference in the springs inside the tensioners. However, if the engine oil has particualte that wear the tube surfaces, maybe that hydraulics of that tensioner degrade, leak sitting for a long time, I do not know. I change my oil on average 5-7000 mi. and also sometimes change the oil filter in between. i'm not too worried about the occasional brief startup rattle these engines make.
Back to the 88deg C thermostat, My exhaust valves ( and intake) stay clean without any special treatment other that COSTO tier1 93 octane and 1 can of Chevron fuel cleaner right before oil changes. I've decided to keep running in the 'mapped' coolant temp range. I hop the new stock t-stat will get the temp down under load. most of my driving is around town feathering throttle.
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