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Old 01-21-2014, 02:51 PM
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Alwozhere Alwozhere is offline
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Newbie here, need advice on possible 428i lease

Hello. I'm looking to lease a 428i and wanted to get some advice from members who knows more about leasing.

So after shopping around and contacting as many dealers as I ever have in the past, I think I found the car I've been looking for, I just need to know if the numbers add up.

The 428i in question is almost fully loaded,

m sport
saphire black with black dakota leather interior
premium package
technology package
drivers assist (rear camera, etc)
HK sound system
M sport brakes
MSRP: $53800

Total money down, drive off, with first month payment = $3500
Monthly payments $520 +tax
35 month lease
10k miles/year

Now I'll be honest with you all, I don't know about the money factor and things like that, even though I should. But after looking around for close to 2-3 weeks, this is the best deal I'v found. I checked out similar 428i models closer to me and they all end up being around $1000-2000 more by the end of the 35month lease. I tried to haggle with this dealer to bring the payments down, but they said it's a $53800 car and $520 +tax is the lowest they can go, with 3500 drive off, all fees and first month included.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, is this a good deal for a brand new 428i with the above specs?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Alwozhere; 01-25-2014 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:27 PM
eekthecat eekthecat is offline
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post
Hello. I'm looking to lease a 428i and wanted to get some advice from members who knows more about leasing.

So after shopping around and contacting as many dealers as I ever have in the past, I think I found the car I've been looking for, I just need to know if the numbers add up.

The 428i in question is almost fully loaded,

m sport
saphire black with black dakota leather interior
premium package
technology package
drivers assist (rear camera, etc)
HK sound system
M sport brakes
MSRP: $54000

Total money down, drive off, with first month payment = $3500
Monthly payments $520 +tax
35 month lease
10k miles/year

Now I'll be honest with you all, I don't know about the money factor and things like that, even though I should. But after looking around for close to 2-3 weeks, this is the best deal I'v found. I checked out similar 428i models closer to me and they all end up being around $1000-2000 more by the end of the 35month lease. I tried to haggle with this dealer to bring the payments down, but they said it's a $54000 car and $520 +tax is the lowest they can go, with 3500 drive off, all fees and first month included.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, is this a good deal for a brand new 428i with the above specs?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
How much of that 3500 drive off is cap reduction (down payment)?
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eekthecat View Post
How much of that 3500 drive off is cap reduction (down payment)?

Honestly, I don't even know what cap reduction is. They said $3500 is the total down, including first month.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:38 PM
eekthecat eekthecat is offline
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post
Honestly, I don't even know what cap reduction is. They said $3500 is the total down, including first month.
I'm seeing an "invoice price" of $50905 and an MSRP (incl destination fee of $925) of $54750. I don't know what the current money factor and residual are -- but you should! (in addition to any incentives)

Usual caveats of not putting a down payment down on a lease aside, it doesn't look too far off to me. Come back with those figures (at least selling price, mf, residual) and consider multiple security deposits (pays down the MF) instead of money down.

Last edited by eekthecat; 01-21-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eekthecat View Post
I'm seeing an "invoice price" of $50905 and an MSRP (incl destination fee of $925) of $54750. I don't know what the current money factor and residual are -- but you should! (in addition to any incentives)

Usual caveats of not putting a down payment down on a lease aside, it doesn't look too far off to me. Come back with those figures (at least selling price, mf, residual) and consider multiple security deposits (pays down the MF) instead of money down.
ok so without knowing the money factor and residual, there's no way to know if this is a good deal for this particular model with the options it has?

Regarding MSDs, how does that work, I just put down MSDs instead of money down? I heard each MSD payment only brings down the monthly payment by about $7, so all 7 MSDs would be just under 50 bucks savings a month.

Last edited by Alwozhere; 01-21-2014 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:40 PM
eekthecat eekthecat is offline
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post
ok so without knowing the money factor and residual, there's no way to know if this is a good deal for this particular model with the options it has?

Regarding MSDs, how does that work, I just put down MSDs instead of money down? I heard each MSD payment only brings down the monthly payment by about $7, so all 7 MSDs would be just under 50 bucks savings a month.
MSDs (up to 7 max) reduce your money factor by .00007 each (up to a total of 0.00049 or 1.176%). The actual dollar amount depends on the rest of the figures. Without the rest of the figures (or working backwards from the numbers you provided, making some guesses), it sounds like a decent deal (you're probably not getting ripped off).

For example, the 428 I have on order has an MSRP of 50800, and I'm paying $540/mo with zero down and max MSDs. That's $500 over invoice (or $500 under, after incentives) -- not the best offer I had gotten, but not too far off from what was good in December. (this is my "home" dealership, so I went with them). Using December rates (all I'm familiar with 63% and 0.00125), and my $500 over invoice price, that's $582/mo. $520/mo requires a $2000 down payment. That's probably the neighborhood you're in, if we're assuming CA registration and bank fee... so that's my best guess

Last edited by eekthecat; 01-21-2014 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by eekthecat View Post
you're probably not getting ripped off.
That's not very reassuring lol

I've seen a trend on BMW forums. Some guy comes along, says I want to lease this car and this is the figure I've been quoted /month, with x amount down, usually followed by members telling him that without the money factor, residual, and other figures, it's hard to tell. I guess I just fell in to the same trap.

Anyway, this is the best deal I've found after weeks of looking around, on an almost fully loaded 428i M sport.

Only thing is I'm going to the dealer tomorrow after work to test drive the car and possibly sign the lease.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:50 PM
eekthecat eekthecat is offline
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post
That's not very reassuring lol

I've seen a trend on BMW forums. Some guy comes along, says I want to lease this car and this is the figure I've been quoted /month, with x amount down, usually followed by members telling him that without the money factor, residual, and other figures, it's hard to tell. I guess I just fell in to the same trap.

Anyway, this is the best deal I've found after weeks of looking around, on an almost fully loaded 428i M sport.

Only thing is I'm going to the dealer tomorrow after work to test drive the car and possibly sign the lease.
I think that you'll find that people who end up frequenting a forum dedicated to their car are probably a certain, odd kind of person.

Generally, I think you're actually getting a decent deal. Which dealership? (also, why 35mo instead of 36?)
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post
ok so without knowing the money factor and residual, there's no way to know if this is a good deal for this particular model with the options it has?

Regarding MSDs, how does that work, I just put down MSDs instead of money down? I heard each MSD payment only brings down the monthly payment by about $7, so all 7 MSDs would be just under 50 bucks savings a month.
Yes need mf and residual and ideally selling price

but you get the money back so if you put down 7 msd's you will get the 3500 and change back when the lease ends.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:19 PM
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I think that you'll find that people who end up frequenting a forum dedicated to their car are probably a certain, odd kind of person.

Generally, I think you're actually getting a decent deal. Which dealership? (also, why 35mo instead of 36?)

crevierBMW

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Originally Posted by sol123 View Post
Yes need mf and residual and ideally selling price

but you get the money back so if you put down 7 msd's you will get the 3500 and change back when the lease ends.
so I can tell them that instead of the $3500 down, I want to put down 7 MSDs instead? Why do I have a feeling they are going to try to talk me out of that lol
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:26 PM
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That's where I ordered mine from. They were pretty easy to work with, though I suppose CA's differ, and I had everything calculated down to the cent before we sat down to talk price. I think that generally, once you show them that you have the process down and know the figures (and aren't dickish about it), they'll work with you however you'd like. For me, that was the selling price relative to invoice, rather than monthly payments.

Now that we're talking about the same car and dealer, I'm interested to know whether your deal is better than mine

(Oh, and since MSDs round up to the nearest $50, you're looking at $550 x 7)

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Old 01-21-2014, 10:27 PM
sol123 sol123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post

crevierBMW



so I can tell them that instead of the $3500 down, I want to put down 7 MSDs instead? Why do I have a feeling they are going to try to talk me out of that lol
Well you still have to pay first month and bank fees . That should be about 1700 so you have almost 2 g for msd come up with any extra and for every payment you save about 7 bucks. So 7 msd gets you 50 bucks a month x36 and you just saved 1800 bucks for doing nothing
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:36 PM
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So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, is this a good deal for a brand new 428i with the above specs?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Ok so you never leased before, educate yourself on what a lease is and how to understand how dealers will take you for a ride when leasing. The goal of leasing is to put as little as possible down.... However, in BMW land, they have MSD's, but you get that money back at the end of your lease or when you terminate it.

Understanding what the money factor is on your dealer, the final sale price of the car helps a lot too. dealers love people like you, they ask you, how much are you willing to put down and what your max monthly payment will be and 20 minutes later the salesman comes back with a deal that is close to what you told them...

Bimmerfest is a wonderful resource on understanding the pit falls of leasing and how to avoid them.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:39 PM
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crevierBMW



so I can tell them that instead of the $3500 down, I want to put down 7 MSDs instead? Why do I have a feeling they are going to try to talk me out of that lol
Simple, they know you don't understand leasing... They want your money... Which really sucks since earning repeat business is a way of making more money...
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:44 PM
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WOW, I can't believe over $50,000 for a 4 cylinder car. Yes, I know it's a BMW but that's a lot of $$. Anyhow, I was told never put money down on a lease. I never leased before, therefore I also want to know if you're getting a good deal. Good luck, but try to educated yourself regarding leasing before you regret it once you sign the deal.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:51 AM
stp80 stp80 is offline
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I'm curious about this one too. I'm ordering a near identical one for ED minus HK sound and drivers assistance and my payment is $496 with a drive off of $5300 max MSDs no money down, license registration, and bank fees. Mine is 12k miles though.

You mentioned $520 a month + tax, I think that is what is throwing at least me off here. My monthly payment has tax included, if I exclude tax it's $450 a month. So $520 sounds like an awesome deal but add california state tax and maybe what is going on makes more sense.

Like everyone else said you should definitely be asking for the MF and Residual Value, it took me some researching as well to figure out how to calculate everything but if you care to know if you got a good deal or not this is probably the best way lol They should print out a quote that has all the numbers there.

Man if you are really are getting $520 a month with only $3000 out the door I should have just got my car here instead of doing an ED.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:01 AM
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Hmm... didn't see that it was before tax. Might not be as great a deal as I thought. OP, you definitely need to get those figures - don't take no for an answer, if you're really looking to understand and get the best deal.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by eekthecat View Post
That's where I ordered mine from. They were pretty easy to work with, though I suppose CA's differ, and I had everything calculated down to the cent before we sat down to talk price. I think that generally, once you show them that you have the process down and know the figures (and aren't dickish about it), they'll work with you however you'd like. For me, that was the selling price relative to invoice, rather than monthly payments.

Now that we're talking about the same car and dealer, I'm interested to know whether your deal is better than mine

(Oh, and since MSDs round up to the nearest $50, you're looking at $550 x 7)

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I just spoke to the sales person working on my lease and told him I would like to put down MSDs for the down payment so (quite simply) I can get my money back at the end of the lease and he said he will check with his manager and get back to me later this afternoon.

Can I tell them that aside from the first month payment and any registration fees, I want to put the rest of the $3500 entirely as MSDs?

In addition, the MSD payments will bring the $520+tax monthly payments down a bit too right?

Sorry for all the newbie questions but I want to be sure I know what I'm doing and a BMW forum was the best place I could think of getting some info. Cheers
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:28 AM
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I just spoke to the sales person working on my lease and told him I would like to put down MSDs for the down payment so (quite simply) I can get my money back at the end of the lease and he said he will check with his manager and get back to me later this afternoon.

Can I tell them that aside from the first month payment and any registration fees, I want to put the rest of the $3500 entirely as MSDs?

In addition, the MSD payments will bring the $520+tax monthly payments down a bit too right?

Sorry for all the newbie questions but I want to be sure I know what I'm doing and a BMW forum was the best place I could think of getting some info. Cheers
There is a thread on Bimmerfest that talks about how to lease BMWs have you read that?
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:30 AM
eekthecat eekthecat is offline
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Originally Posted by Alwozhere View Post
I just spoke to the sales person working on my lease and told him I would like to put down MSDs for the down payment so (quite simply) I can get my money back at the end of the lease and he said he will check with his manager and get back to me later this afternoon.

Can I tell them that aside from the first month payment and any registration fees, I want to put the rest of the $3500 entirely as MSDs?

In addition, the MSD payments will bring the $520+tax monthly payments down a bit too right?

Sorry for all the newbie questions but I want to be sure I know what I'm doing and a BMW forum was the best place I could think of getting some info. Cheers
Pretty much. Your security deposit will be your monthly payment rounded UP to the nearest $50, so in your case, $520+tax, so you're looking at a security deposit of $600. Multiply by 7 for the maximum reduction, and you're looking at $4200. Plus registration, doc fee, bank fee.

Basically, just assume MSDs are ok (there's no manager checking - not sure why he's even saying that) - just get the MSRP, selling price, MF, and residual.

With the info you've given, and with Max MSDs, you should be looking at $560-570/mo, including tax. Drive offs of approximately 6000 (4200 MSD, 450 registration, 80 doc fee, 570 first payment, 725 bank fee), not including any incentives. This is all assuming the terms haven't changed (I'm guessing they have) from december's. (63%, .00125)

Last edited by eekthecat; 01-22-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:43 AM
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Well you still have to pay first month and bank fees . That should be about 1700 so you have almost 2 g for msd come up with any extra and for every payment you save about 7 bucks. So 7 msd gets you 50 bucks a month x36 and you just saved 1800 bucks for doing nothing

Nice!! This is good to know, so other than first month and bank fees, the rest of the 3500 I can put all MSDs. This is what I wanted to know.

Btw what are the conditions for MSD return to customer? Just no damage on the car after lease is up?
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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For January there is a 500 dollar drive credit for the 4 series so see if you can get that as well. They may try to build that it into their offer already.

With that said to offset that the lease rates got a little worse for us this month as well. It should be 0.00130 for MF and 62% for 10k I think. Eekthecat has the other numbers there that match what I got as well. So you should be well armed here to see if you got a fair deal or if they hid some information.

Keep us posted on how it goes!
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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Whoops double post

Last edited by stp80; 01-22-2014 at 12:02 PM. Reason: double post
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by eekthecat View Post
Pretty much. Your security deposit will be your monthly payment rounded UP to the nearest $50, so in your case, $520+tax, so you're looking at a security deposit of $600. Multiply by 7 for the maximum reduction, and you're looking at $4200. Plus registration, doc fee, bank fee.

Basically, just assume MSDs are ok (there's no manager checking - not sure why he's even saying that) - just get the MSRP, selling price, MF, and residual.

With the info you've given, and with Max MSDs, you should be looking at $560-570/mo, including tax. Drive offs of approximately 6000 (4200 MSD, 450 registration, 80 doc fee, 570 first payment, 725 bank fee), not including any incentives. This is all assuming the terms haven't changed (I'm guessing they have) from december's. (63%, .00125)
Thanks a lot, that's what I needed to know

So the 450 registration, 80 doc fee, 570 first payment and 725 bank fee all total 1825, I I can put down 4 MSD payments totalling 2400, bringing the total down to 4225 correct? And those 4 MSD payments should bring the money factor down a bit so the monthly 570 should drop too. I think if this is possible, I'll do this. Do these dealers give back the MSDs without any fuss at the end of the lease?
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:29 PM
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For January there is a 500 dollar drive credit for the 4 series so see if you can get that as well. They may try to build that it into their offer already.

With that said to offset that the lease rates got a little worse for us this month as well. It should be 0.00130 for MF and 62% for 10k I think. Eekthecat has the other numbers there that match what I got as well. So you should be well armed here to see if you got a fair deal or if they hid some information.

Keep us posted on how it goes!
Thanks, I'll def ask about the January credit and will post back what happens.
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