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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:43 PM
zaphod1962 zaphod1962 is offline
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Originally Posted by meinbills View Post
I can't wait for the age of EV to be here. So many benefits. Pretty soon, the internal combustion engine will be a relic. Of course, you will have the same handling and driving experience w/o the pollution.
So you want landfills full of cadmium, and other very toxic chemicals, from the spent batteries of EVs. Recycling Lithium ION batteries is extremely difficult, and expensive, so most manufacturers won't go to the trouble. There is also the problem of manufacturing the batteries for these vehicles. It is a very dirty process. Those problems aside, what are you going to use to charge the EV? Electricity from the grid, which is produced by Coal, Gas, or dare I say it, Nuclear power plants (the cleanest source of power by the way, aside from hydroelectric, but hydroelectric plants can't provide enough power to consider them in this.). There is also the problem of range. Even the Newest Tesla can only go roughly 250 miles on a charge, that drops by half if you are towing, or driving in mountains, then you better hope there is a Supercharger within range, and be prepared to spend a few hours going nowhere.
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:45 PM
JohnnysZ4 JohnnysZ4 is offline
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Loving my combustion engine

I am still as in love with my car as I was when it was new. 2006 Z4, black on black with 3.0si 6 cylinder 6 speed manual. No turbo, no computer rev matching, no laborious 4 cylinder turbo that sounds like it's struggling. Pure easy and consistent power and sounds like beautiful music while rowing through gears. I did drive a Tesla S ...amazing power and acceleration....and no sound....an unusual experience. I've watched my car's value fall but the joy of driving it never did. I don't know where we're going in the auto future but my car's a keeper!

Last edited by JohnnysZ4; 01-14-2020 at 05:47 PM.
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:05 PM
Stevenym4 Stevenym4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
Back during the Carter administration, the DOT decided they were going to reinvent the city mass transit bus. DOT pays for much of the busses used by municipal and metro area transit systems. So, they controlled the market. One of the things they did was to pay more for the busses if they were lighter. So, Grumman designed their new generation of buses to be a light as possible, and then even lighter. They were up to dealing with neglected snow-belt streets full of potholes. There were a lot of incidents were the busses powertrain would fall out onto the street after hitting a big pothole.

That spawned a cottage industry of refurbishing older used buses. Transit system were paying to have their old buses refurbished, and even buying used refurbished busses in stead of the new-generation, new busses.
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Originally Posted by JohnnysZ4 View Post
I am still as in love with my car as I was when it was new. 2006 Z4, black on black with 3.0si 6 cylinder 6 speed manual. No turbo, no computer rev matching, no laborious 4 cylinder turbo that sounds like it's struggling. Pure easy and consistent power and sounds like beautiful music while rowing through gears. I did drive a Tesla S ...amazing power and acceleration....and no sound....an unusual experience. I've watched my car's value fall but the joy of driving it never did. I don't know where we're going in the auto future but my car's a keeper!
Absolutely, the no sound thing never leaves your head. It’s a staple, if not the king pin, of anyone’s first experience.
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  #54  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:20 PM
satyaban satyaban is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnnysZ4 View Post
I am still as in love with my car as I was when it was new. 2006 Z4, black on black with 3.0si 6 cylinder 6 speed manual. No turbo, no computer rev matching, no laborious 4 cylinder turbo that sounds like it's struggling. Pure easy and consistent power and sounds like beautiful music while rowing through gears. I did drive a Tesla S ...amazing power and acceleration....and no sound....an unusual experience. I've watched my car's value fall but the joy of driving it never did. I don't know where we're going in the auto future but my car's a keeper!
I agree completely.
I think the next step for personal transportation will be a vehicle that does not need friction with the Earth to move. It will revolutionize road building, no pot holes caused by heavy trucks that tears up suspensions and tires that electric and gasoline require.
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  #55  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:42 PM
Stevenym4 Stevenym4 is offline
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I agree completely.
I think the next step for personal transportation will be a vehicle that does not need friction with the Earth to move. It will revolutionize road building, no pot holes caused by heavy trucks that tears up suspensions and tires that electric and gasoline require.
Yep all those expenses after the vehicle purchase, like tires, gas, brakes etc. In a truly perfect world the next step should be a vehicle which makes its own power source from its forward motion. I think this is possibly obtainable but highly unprofitable.
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  #56  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:05 PM
Stevenym4 Stevenym4 is offline
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Originally Posted by satyaban View Post
I agree completely.
I think the next step for personal transportation will be a vehicle that does not need friction with the Earth to move. It will revolutionize road building, no pot holes caused by heavy trucks that tears up suspensions and tires that electric and gasoline require.
Yep all those expenses after the vehicle purchase, like tires, gas, brakes etc. In a truly perfect world the next step should be a vehicle which makes its own power source from its forward motion. I think this is possibly obtainable but highly unprofitable.
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  #57  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:48 PM
Beamer Schemer Beamer Schemer is offline
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This is definitely not the same forum I joined 5 years ago. They person who is trying to make this thread political? (I don't care who you are). This is not Facebook or Twitter.
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:51 PM
Beamer Schemer Beamer Schemer is offline
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I can't make an indisputable argument for EV ... just yet because we are at the beginning of the EV era. Not enough time to tell you that yes, an EV will outlast an ICE car by miles and miles. Understandably the battery replacement costs is a concern RIGHT NOW but who knows several years down the road replacing the batteries will not be as bad as replacing one of these gas engines in the e46. We need more innovations and mass adoption. Also yes, range is of a major concern RIGHT NOW so I'm not seeing the death of the ICE just yet. But you know, technology will progress and problems will be solved and the ICE will be a relic for sure. Maybe the eventual solution won't be EV/battery but another mode of transportation/energy but whatever it is, ICE's days are numbered.
The problem isn't replacing the battery cells. It is getting rid of them when they are no longer needed.
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:11 PM
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lgr122 lgr122 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meinbills View Post
I can't make an indisputable argument for EV ... just yet because we are at the beginning of the EV era. Not enough time to tell you that yes, an EV will outlast an ICE car by miles and miles. Understandably the battery replacement costs is a concern RIGHT NOW but who knows several years down the road replacing the batteries will not be as bad as replacing one of these gas engines in the e46. We need more innovations and mass adoption. Also yes, range is of a major concern RIGHT NOW so I'm not seeing the death of the ICE just yet. But you know, technology will progress and problems will be solved and the ICE will be a relic for sure. Maybe the eventual solution won't be EV/battery but another mode of transportation/energy but whatever it is, ICE's days are numbered.
The problem isn't replacing the battery cells. It is getting rid of them when they are no longer needed.
Battery materials are expensive, and difficult to get, so old batteries should be recycled for making new ones. There will be huge industry in that busines. And for making service easier and cheaper, there should be some standard shapes and sizes of batteries, which fit many models. Or are they already made that way? I wouldn't know.
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  #60  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:51 AM
mike54 mike54 is offline
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OP, remember to be a proper collector car, it would need to be pristine and have low miles. So if you really did find one now, you would then garage it in a climate controlled area and drive it once to twice a year. Then in 20 years post an ad for sale. What fun is that? I'm driving mine now.
I agree. Never understood why someone buys a drivers car and then never drives it.
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  #61  
Old 01-15-2020, 07:16 AM
Racer700 Racer700 is offline
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Well done research my friend. To add to that anyone paying attention also realizes that battery tech is now where near providing practical usage compared to ice. This is far from being a vhs /dvd comparo, real engineers and mechanics know it.
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  #62  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:16 AM
meinbills meinbills is online now
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OMG, the more I read the more I realize how short sighted some of us is. First of all, I am in no way a liberal and the accusation of someone who advocates for EV is a liberal just shows how narrow minded one is. Second of all, all of the "shortcomings" you guys mentioned here are indeed valid ... for the present. I know that EV was around way back in 2000 I think with GM car, the name which I forgot. Then GM killed that car because of multiple reasons, one of which I suspected was the cheap price of gas and because it was a niche market back then. Since the ICE cars were making tons of profits for the car makers and people were still buying them b/c gas was cheap, there wasn't any incentive for anyone to risk billions of dollars to invest into a brand new technology.

Fast forward to the present, nowadays, people are more aware of pollution issues (emission), environmental impacts (oil spills/fracking/drilling), limited resources (petroleum supply is not limitless), energy dependency and many others, it's time to find the alternatives to burning fossil fuel. Remember back in 2009 or something when gas price shot up to $4/gallon, people were scrambling to downsize their cars and abandon the gas guzzlers? How quick people tend to forget. I remember back at that point, hybrids and compact cars were selling like hotcakes. So here we are and the most feasible alternative to ICE is EV.

When EV demands go mainstream and replace the ICE, definitely there will be incentives to resolve all the issues with EV mentioned up above because that is where the profit is. Renewable energy sources will be implemented (hydro/wind/solar) on a massive scale. Energy storage technology will be improved or new one invented. Alternative/improved recharging (refueling) will be found. So for you guys to complain about the currently problems like they will never be solved is so laughable.

I know, it's hard to let go of your 8-deck cassette player because you have so much invested in it but it's time to step in to the CD era.
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  #63  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:58 AM
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lgr122 lgr122 is online now
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I feel no need for electric car, seriously.

Our government here in Finland is pressing hard on emission caused by traffic. What's their tool? Heavier tax on fuels, and it works actually, people try harder because of money. So I have 6-cylinder e46 running on ethanol fuel, and it feels good now after I sorted out problems. AND there's plant here in town producing biodiesel fuel out of forest industry leftovers. I'm forced to do something, but I still refuse to buy car with less cylinders. Next step might be E91, there can be interesting 6-cylinder turbo engines.. gasoline (ethanol) or diesel..
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  #64  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:45 AM
Racer700 Racer700 is offline
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Put all the hype aside. The EV tecnology is unproven in practical usage period. Battery technology is stuck and has been for years. I feel ICE using other fuel sources are more of a reality. For that matter efficient diesels blow most every thing away today but have been shelved for the wrong reasons. Europeans know the efficiency of these but the USA continues to play games and shun them. When (and if ever) an ev can go 7-800 miles per charge and recharge in 5 minutes you may have something.
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  #65  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:51 AM
meinbills meinbills is online now
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"The EV tecnology is unproven in practical usage period"? What is your definition of "practical usage"?

"Battery technology is stuck and has been for years"? Maybe but rest assure that there are people out there who are researching ways to solve this problem.

"I feel ICE using other fuel sources are more of a reality". Like what? Name some other fuel sources that is abundant.

You know that France, UK and Norway are in Europe, right? And they've announced that they will phase out ICE cars in the near future. If they know about the greatness of diesel, why don't they mandate diesel instead?

Tell me of a mainstream car on the road today that goes 700-800 between refueling?
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  #66  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:44 AM
Racer700 Racer700 is offline
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Now your talking politics!
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  #67  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:49 AM
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Small diesels are dieing because VW cheated on emission tests, that's how they went out of fashion and companies develope something else. But it doesn't mean wife's 118d is bad car. Diesel fuel will remain for long time because it's good for trucks and work machines.
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  #68  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:26 PM
Racer700 Racer700 is offline
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Small cars getting 50-70 MPG is common in Europe. Painted perception vs reality is also common there. Business people there put a tesla in there garage for perception/status while there daily driver is a diesel MB or BMW. Do a little research. The attempted switch to EV is killing there auto sales business because nobody wants them. This is what happens when politics pushes the market place. Go to Europe and observe for yourself.
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  #69  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:35 PM
Racer700 Racer700 is offline
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Originally Posted by lgr122 View Post
Small diesels are dieing because VW cheated on emission tests, that's how they went out of fashion and companies develope something else. But it doesn't mean wife's 118d is bad car. Diesel fuel will remain for long time because it's good for trucks and work machines.
Yes, but we should not be talking about something being in "fashion" here but reality. Because of a small quantity of unwanted nox we are scraping diesels with fantastic economy for what, the dirty production of batteries that do not work much better than 50 years ago and can not be used with the convenience of an ice vehicle. Unfortunately this is not about facts but perception, politics & $$.
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  #70  
Old 01-15-2020, 01:55 PM
SPDSKTR SPDSKTR is offline
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It's time for turbo diesel hybrids. 120+ MPG surely is easy with such a setup.

But I'm not an engineer, so what do I know?
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  #71  
Old 01-15-2020, 02:03 PM
mike54 mike54 is offline
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Well how about the millions of people becoming unemployed in the manufacturing plants, not to mention the oil workers and refinery's etc. Electric auto's have many less parts and will not pick up layoffed workers.
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  #72  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:13 PM
satyaban satyaban is offline
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Right now EV is good and convenient in urban areas but the further one has to travel daily they become less convenient and for road trips as well, I think? Also I think it is much too early for any major shift to electric vehicles. The EV may one day the most common but the infrastructure isn't there?
I think it is much too early for any major shift to electric vehicles and I think some of the pressure on manufacturers may abate with an EPA role back of emission standards.
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  #73  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:31 PM
meinbills meinbills is online now
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I don't see any politics in this thread, except for McLaren guy kept labeling EV advocates as liberals.

OK, so I am on a BMW forum and I preach EV to the wrong crowd. Not that I do not like my 325. I do. I will try to keep it for as long as I can. However, the next car I'm going to buy will be EV. If you need to go long distance for the near future where they have not resolved the range or the charge time yet, rent an ICE car as a temporary solution. No matter how you want to spin this or argue, the inevitability is coming. Just like CUV vs sedan, to compare it loosely, EV is going to dominate ICE.

Oh and what about those people who work to build ICE cars and drill oil? Of course they will get different jobs. Jobs in one industry goes away and replaced by jobs in another. That's how things work, folks.
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  #74  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:59 PM
MoparJim MoparJim is offline
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We already know every chemical reaction that produces electricity. What they are working on now is size, weight, and efficiency in small, limited increments. In terms of environmental impact, economic efficiency, and convenience fuel from crude oil or natural gas will likely never be beat, unless it is via fuel cell...As for electric, that goes to the beginning of the automobile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ectric_vehicle). EV will never match the efficiency of other sources of power.
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  #75  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:16 PM
Todd 330i Todd 330i is offline
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Collector cars? Probably not. Enthusiasts choice? They already are. I really dig my E60 and E46 cars. They have "soul" to me.
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