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  #1  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:27 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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Question for the dealers

Our X5 40e is 5 months from maturity, so the offers are staring to coming in. Just this morning got a letter from the dealership offering:

--$6750 "BMW Lease Credit"
--$5500 Dealership "Preferred Customer Bonus"
--waive $350 disposition fee (obviously, if we lease another BMW)

There's no mention of a pull-ahead so I'm guessing my last payments come out of the lease credit or the preferred customer bonus. Which would be fine, except the offer is only good on a new 2018 X5 40e, which they don't have (and haven't for some time). They have (2) '18 X5s left, $85k V8s (who buys those?).

So questions for those who might know:

1) Why even send an offer like this when there's no inventory?
2) Does the dealer have the ability to shift this incentive to another model?
3) Or is this just a cheezy attempt to get me in the dealership and try to switch me to something in stock?
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2019, 11:54 PM
ard ard is offline
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Only their very best customers get such great offers. How DARE you act ungrateful.



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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


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  #3  
Old 03-16-2019, 12:23 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrshc View Post

So questions for those who might know:

1) Why even send an offer like this when there's no inventory?
2) Does the dealer have the ability to shift this incentive to another model?
3) Or is this just a cheezy attempt to get me in the dealership and try to switch me to something in stock?
1) To get you interested and in the door
2) No it's model specific. Not all cars have $5500 margins
3) Generally, yes.

Break the offer down:

A. It's based on the car you drive now. It will pick a car in stock, or if allowed by ad laws in your state they can use a generic car.

B. The incentive is BMW's for that model and in your region

C. The discount is decided by the dealership.

D. You are correct that there is no pull ahead. So if you are 3-5 payments out, they are folding those payments into the deal

E. Yes, you all know that the $350 will be waived if you go with FS again. Not everyone does. Some people don't even know there is a dispo fee. So it sounds good.

F. It is a way to connect with clients and see who they can draw in. The dealers determine the data profile for the mailer. Lease end 3 months out; X5 drivers; 3-series leasers, etc. Whatever they need to push or whomever they want to target.

It's better than getting a shotgun mailing every week that makes NO sense to you at all.

And for some it can be good. Maybe you are just a couple payments out, but you've got some excess miles to deal with. Fold in a payment, have the dealer eat a payment or two, and get out before you have the miles over the contract.

I've also seen where the residual or rebates have shifted, and the new lease is slightly better.

Or there's a better program on the X3 than your lease end X5, so you hop on one.

All these are to say that your dealer is a for-profit sales entity and it's their job and profession to find ways to get you in the door.

This is just one more way.

mjb
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:34 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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Yep, I really want to say that their marketing is tired and ineffective, but it did work on me...I had to call in to find what the deal was.

After 20 minutes with the salesman basically what I'm left with is "come in to the dealership and we'll work something out." I said thanks but no thanks, I'll just wait. There's nothing wrong with the current car, no excess miles or wear, and the payment is affordable. More than happy to keep it through the end.

Add to that that BMW doesn't have the right product right now anyway...the 45e won't be out until next year, and mrs. jrshc requires the suv form factor.

I wish the marketing wasn't tone deaf...but if a lie gets the phone to ring, why bother telling the truth
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:27 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Originally Posted by jrshc View Post
Yep, I really want to say that their marketing is tired and ineffective, but it did work on me...I had to call in to find what the deal was.

After 20 minutes with the salesman basically what I'm left with is "come in to the dealership and we'll work something out." I said thanks but no thanks, I'll just wait. There's nothing wrong with the current car, no excess miles or wear, and the payment is affordable. More than happy to keep it through the end.

Add to that that BMW doesn't have the right product right now anyway...the 45e won't be out until next year, and mrs. jrshc requires the suv form factor.

I wish the marketing wasn't tone deaf...but if a lie gets the phone to ring, why bother telling the truth
Pish posh ... it's not a lie, it's marketing. Take yourself off the email / mailing list. Like I said, it can be a teaser that someone else can take advantage of, and the dealer gets a deal out of it.
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  #6  
Old 03-26-2019, 11:48 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Pish posh ... it's not a lie, it's marketing. Take yourself off the email / mailing list. Like I said, it can be a teaser that someone else can take advantage of, and the dealer gets a deal out of it.
Yes, I've come to realize that I need to lower my standards; I'd avoid a lot of disappointment that way.

In the meantime I've gotten a postcard from a dealership where I serviced the car once, this time advertising $13,457 (no breakdown of the discount, just a flat figure) off the price of a new 2018 X5 40e...which, yes, you guessed it, they don't have in stock.

I should probably voice my disappointment the best way, and categorically disqualify any dealership that markets to me in this manner. I imagine that would restrict my future vehicle choices to makes that start with 'T' and rhyme with 'Tesla.'
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  #7  
Old 03-30-2019, 10:04 AM
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it's all marketing...and the $ gets applied different ways. I'm happy to help you if you want to connect.
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:16 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by jrshc View Post

In the meantime I've gotten a postcard from a dealership where I serviced the car once, this time advertising $13,457 (no breakdown of the discount, just a flat figure) off the price of a new 2018 X5 40e...which, yes, you guessed it, they don't have in stock.
Years ago I attended a Jaguar event and in the swag bag was a discount certificate for $1,500 off a new Jag. The language was something like, "make your best deal on a new Jaguar and then take an additional $1,500 off..."

So I made the best deal on a new 2012 XK and then, after the price and terms were all agreed upon and written down, I produced the $1,500 off certificate and was told that the certificate could not be combined with the other offers we had stacked into my deal.

I, calmly and politely, asked the dealer to help me find where on the certificate this was stated. It wasn't. The general manager, who was involved in working my exceptional deal, smiled and said that he would be glad to process the certificate but Jag would kick it back and he showed me an internal memo explaining that the $1,500 certificates could not be combined with the other offer(s) that were already in my deal. I said that I appreciated being shown the memo and the GM said they had had several deals bounced back so they didn't want to put me or themselves through it again. He said he didn't want to promise something he knew he couldn't deliver. And I smiled and said something like, "And we need to make sure Jaguar USA delivers on the promise they seem to have made to me with this certificate."

I furrowed my brow and then said it would be a shame to not do this deal but all my numbers included the $1,500. The GM said if he had another $1,500 to shave off from somewhere he would, and I believed him because we were already in insanely generous deal territory and I wasn't going to pretend like I didn't understand that.

So, remaining courteous, as always, I looked the GM in the eye and asked, "How would you go about getting this $1,500 from Jag?" He smiled and said, "I'd call this guy." And he gave me the name and direct phone number to a marketing exec at Jaguar USA.

Too long story, I know, but I called the guy, he reviewed the language of the certificate with me and he agreed that there was nothing stating the certificate savings couldn't be combined with other offers and he agreed that it was "unfortunate" that the language on the certificate so clearly stated the bit about make your best deal and then toss in this certificate for the extra $1,500 discount.

A week later I received a check for $1,500 from Jaguar USA with a nice note thanking me for bringing the issue to their attention.

So if I received a card from my local BMW dealer advertising a specified discount or whatever special terms on a specified car, or model, or anything that implied, "buy or lease one of these and we'll do this for you," if the vehicle specified was one I wanted and the deal, as described in the flyer was compelling, I'd school myself on exactly what the written offer included and/or excluded, and, if there weren't any escape clauses in the fine print on the flyer, I'd make an appointment and go make them find me one of the specified cars and deliver it to me as advertised. And if they couldn't get their hands on such a vehicle, I'd be prepared to suggest that they find an equivalent vehicle, in stock or made to order, and sell it to me for the advertised terms, or close enough to those terms so I could be confident I was getting an insane deal. And if they said they couldn't, I'd get the name and phone number of that magically empowered senior marketing executive at BMWNA, and I'd get the deal, without malice or anger.... just a ridiculous sense of entitlement because, hey, BMW sent me the flyer and invited me to come over to their house and play, and, hey, here I am, so, let's play, like you promised right here in writing....

But that's just me.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:22 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post

So if I received a card from my local BMW dealer advertising a specified discount or whatever special terms on a specified car, or model, or anything that implied, "buy or lease one of these and we'll do this for you," if the vehicle specified was one I wanted and the deal, as described in the flyer was compelling, I'd school myself on exactly what the written offer included and/or excluded, and, if there weren't any escape clauses in the fine print on the flyer, I'd make an appointment and go make them find me one of the specified cars and deliver it to me as advertised. And if they couldn't get their hands on such a vehicle, I'd be prepared to suggest that they find an equivalent vehicle, in stock or made to order, and sell it to me for the advertised terms, or close enough to those terms so I could be confident I was getting an insane deal. And if they said they couldn't, I'd get the name and phone number of that magically empowered senior marketing executive at BMWNA, and I'd get the deal, without malice or anger.... just a ridiculous sense of entitlement because, hey, BMW sent me the flyer and invited me to come over to their house and play, and, hey, here I am, so, let's play, like you promised right here in writing....

But that's just me.
Yes, that's me too. But if the "buy or lease one of these and we'll do this for you," only applied to a car that didn't exist (i.e., a new vehicle of the previous model year), what do you do?
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:33 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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Originally Posted by [email protected] BMW View Post
it's all marketing...and the $ gets applied different ways. I'm happy to help you if you want to connect.
Really appreciate that Greg. Can you just confirm please that there are no more *new* 2018 X5 40e out there? I've never bought the same car twice in a row but mrs. jrshc says she really likes it and would be ok for another 3 years, if we could find one of course.
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:28 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by jrshc View Post
Yes, that's me too. But if the "buy or lease one of these and we'll do this for you," only applied to a car that didn't exist (i.e., a new vehicle of the previous model year), what do you do?
One is reminded of the joke about the elderly woman who walks into a butcher shop and tells the butcher, "I see you are selling chops for $8.99/lb. Schwartz the butcher across the street sells his for $7.99/lb." To which the butcher replies, "So, go across the street and buy your chops from Schwartz." The elderly woman responds, "Schwartz hasn't got any." The butcher then says, "Well, if I didn't have any I'd be happy to sell them to you for $6.99/lb."

What would I do? Well, seriously, if I were ready to buy, and I knew the car advertised in the flyer did not exist, I would call the Sales Manager of the BMW Center that sent me the flyer and have a very cordial conversation.

ME: I am very interested in doing something today. Do you have the advertised vehicle available for the price and terms advertised in this flyer you sent me?

SM: Thanks for calling. Unfortunately by the time the mailing service got that flyer out to our valued customers, the last of those units was already sold. Perhaps there's something else we can help you get.

ME: I appreciate your honesty. Tell me, when was that last one sold?

SM: I'm not sure. I'd need to do some research. What are you looking to get into? We can find you something you'll love, I'm sure.

ME: I would love to replace what I am driving now with something very similar. My lease ends on xx/xx of this year so your offer really caught my eye. The only reason I'm interested to know when the advertised car was sold is, as you know, here in California there are very specific laws and regulations regarding advertising cars -- the car that's advertised has to be available. If, as you said, by the time the mailer went out the car was already gone, then that puts us into uncomfortable territory. But I have a way that will make us both happy. I'll tell you what vehicle would work for me, whether it's from stock or ordered, I don't care. I just need you to find a way to make me a deal that, in the end, is as compelling as what is advertised in the offer you sent me.

SM: Look, I'm going to be honest with you. That special was for cars that we can't get anymore and the incentive support we had on those isn't available on the new model year and there's no way I can get my hands on one like what's described in the flyer. I will do all I can to get you the best value on what is available. When would it be convenient for you to come in?

ME: I'd be delighted to do something if you are able to. I will be available to come in just as soon as it's clear what I can expect in the way of a very compelling deal. Here's what I'd be willing to consider...(Then I'd describe a car I knew the dealer could acquire that I would be delighted to do a deal on.)

SM: Oh, we may need to order it, but we can certainly put something together that will be just what you want.

ME: Wonderful. I am disappointed that the car advertised in the flyer isn't available because I'd have done that deal today. Just so there's no more misunderstanding, I want to be very clear with you that you are going to do whatever is necessary to structure a deal on the car you can get for me that is close to the deal offered in the flyer.

SM: We'll work all that out when you come in but I'm sure you'll be happy..

ME: Great. Happy is what I want to be. So we're both clear. This is what will make me happy: (I'd spell out the terms I expected, which would be almost identical to the terms offered in the flyer).

SM: Now, we're talking about the new model year and there's no way we can do the same as what we did on last year's...

ME: Then, in all honesty, we may have a real challenge. Now that you know my specifications and my expectations for a deal, we have a couple of ways to go. You can sharpen your pencil and see what you can do to get me as close as you can to what I'm asking for and let's see how I feel when I see the hard numbers, or, if it will help you out, I can call BMWNA and perhaps, once they understand what was in the flyer and what happened about there being no such car when customers got the flyer, they can provide us with the necessary support to get us the right deal under these unusual circumstances. I'm confident we can all come to agreeable terms. I'm a returning loyal customer who likes to give all 10's on satisfaction surveys and I'm looking forward to seeing your best offer and getting to yes as soon as possible.

To give this a little cred, I will tell you that, many years ago, my wife and I responded to an advertisement for a car, called the dealer to confirm the car was available as advertised, and, when told it was there, we went straight to the dealer only to be told the car had been sold. We were mystified to learn that within 2 hours of our confirming phone call the car had been sold and delivered and gone off the lot. They tried to switch us into another similar but much more costly car. My wife thanked them for their time and rose from her chair. So I started to get up too, and, God's truth, a hand comes around from outside the cubicle where we were seated and sort of gently presses me back into my seat and the guy attached to that hand says, "I'm sure we can straighten this out." Shazaam! The advertised car, with the VIN that matched the advertisement, came out from around the back and we made the deal.

Some would say, with that sort of shady stuff, we should have walked. I wanted the killer deal. They knew they had to honor it or lose any chance for a sale because the wife was walkin'. Eyes on da prize. And shameless.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:45 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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1968BMW2800, you are clearly a very wealthy and creative individual, who has seemingly unlimited time to have very cordial conversations with salespeople. Congratulations on that.

I am of much more limited means, or, perhaps more accurately, I place a higher value on my time. I also place a high value on integrity and honesty, and not just when I'm buying car.

Anyway. It's just a car, and in the long analysis it doesn't matter to BMW if I don't buy one of theirs. And while I may question why anyone would conduct business this way, the answer is clear: because it works. Until of course it doesn't.
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:33 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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jrshc says: "...I place a higher value on my time. I also place a high value on integrity and honesty,"

Two excellent values to have. I hope I share them. I also think the point that the reason car dealers do what they do is "because it works," is an excellent observation with which I agree.

I place a very high value on my time. I spent maybe two extra hours of my time to secure the additional $1,500 from Jaguar USA. I figured $750/hour was a nice return for the time spent.

In a perverse way, I felt we helped the bait-and-switch dealer who got us into the dealership and then claimed the loss-leader advertised car was no longer available. We helped them behave with more integrity than they had planned on, and we were rewarded with an exceptional deal on exactly the car we wanted.

My position is that I don't make the rules that govern automobile sales processes. I just try to understand them and then use my understanding to get what I want, if possible.

But you are spot on when you reflect on the value of your time. I have made that same point elsewhere. This is the game. We decide if we want to play and how many heartbeats we wish to invest in the process. In my experience, the cost/benefit of my investment in time doing car deals has, thus far, yielded results that, from my perspective, have tipped the balance in my favor.

A lot of research has been done on the decision-making processes of financially successful individuals. They spend money on what they want, but generally don't like to spend more than is required. I'm squarely in that camp for sure.

Last edited by 1968BMW2800; 04-04-2019 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 02:46 PM
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I can tell 1968 has been on hiatus....

I just cannot get the energy up for such long (and courteous) posts

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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 04-04-2019, 04:42 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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I can tell 1968 has been on hiatus....

I just cannot get the energy up for such long (and courteous) posts

Been savin' up all those words. Can't stop them from flowing.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:30 PM
jrshc jrshc is offline
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First time in 22 years there won't be at least one BMW in the fleet. Does that officially make me a troll on this board?
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:06 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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First time in 22 years there won't be at least one BMW in the fleet. Does that officially make me a troll on this board?
Congratulations on making a decision. Many people move from a plug in hybrid to a full EV. I didnt do that (I jumped straight from a 435 to a model 3 performance), but many do.

Whats interesting to me is, from reading one of the main tesla boards, a couple things stick out.

1. Many tesla owners are super entitled (even more so than BMW owners). There are a LARGE number of people who post on those boards who seem to believe that everything should revolve around them personally.

2. Tesla attracts two distinct groups of buyers. Those who are putting tesla in the "upscale" class, with BMW / Merc / Audi / Lexus, and those who are moving up from a leaf, volt, etc.

Of the first group, it appears to me that BMW is getting hit the hardest with defections, at least by the number of people who join in when someone asks "I am coming from a BMW and want to know XXXX". I also recognize a few long tenured BMW people who post on those boards (recognize their screen names from here or bimmerpost).


Anyway, to your question, it certainly doesnt make you a troll but I am guessing that was a rhetorical question. It just makes you someone who is familiar with BMWs but no longer has one. Your knowledge of them doesnt go away so if you choose to participate thats great.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:44 PM
ithatel ithatel is offline
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:57 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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This is not a tesla board, and that title is not even remotely accurate, Mr/Mrs "I hate Elon".
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:30 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
1. Many tesla owners are super entitled (even more so than BMW owners). There are a LARGE number of people who post on those boards who seem to believe that everything should revolve around them personally.

2. Tesla attracts two distinct groups of buyers. Those who are putting tesla in the "upscale" class, with BMW / Merc / Audi / Lexus, and those who are moving up from a leaf, volt, etc.
From my limited sample set, the German crowd still holds on, but they start to replace their 2nd/3rd Honda or Camry with "cheapest" Tesla, which is still $40k+ before incentives.

The leaf/volt crowd moves on to the next gen leaf and bolt, plus FC cars! E.g. one guy on our floor picked up a Mirai lease, which is around $10k all in for 3 years 20000 miles/year!
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:42 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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From my limited sample set, the German crowd still holds on, but they start to replace their 2nd/3rd Honda or Camry with "cheapest" Tesla, which is still $40k+ before incentives.




Actually, no thats not correct. The "cheapest" tesla is 35,400 before incentives. You currently have to contact tesla in person to order it via phone or in store, but your statement is currently factually incorrect regarding the price of the lowest level model 3 with no options.

Again, this is not a tesla board, and this is not a tesla post insofar as the OP posted a pic showing they switched to a tesla from their X5.

If you want to say "the cheapest tesla that is orderable online without human interaction" then your statement is correct regarding the price.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:06 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
If you want to say "the cheapest tesla that is orderable online without human interaction" then your statement is correct regarding the price.
Your statement of $35400 MSRP being cheapest tesla is correct. My comment of $40000 refers to $35400 MSRP + $1200 destination charge + 9-10% CA tax + fees, before Fed/state incentives.

This is the number the Mirai lessee used to compare cheapest Model 3 lease to Mirai lease. The total cost is around $10000 for 3-year, 20000 miles/year for Mirai, versus $17000 for 3-year, 15000 miles/year for cheapest Tesla.

Last edited by namelessman; 06-25-2019 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:11 PM
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