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  #101  
Old 07-15-2018, 08:52 AM
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Sorry. I clearly forgot what you're driving. But my point stands.

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  #102  
Old 07-15-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Sorry. I clearly forgot what you're driving. But my point stands.

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What point? the opening in my post said "this is an INFORM". Where in anything I posted did you see ANYTHING related to "complaining"?

I specifically said (as I quoted above) that one thing I would not be doing is "raising a pitchfork" etc... so exactly what point are you making in relation to my post?

I was informing people that there is a change, not complaining. Others have complained in this thread but not me (or please direct me to a complaint I made in this thread).

EDIT: Not that any of this matters, you have your opinion on what I said and its unlikely me making additional points is going to change anything. Its just a bit disappointing to me because I was specifically going out of my way to make sure I was "informing" and not complaining, but apparently I did not do a good enough job at that.
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  #103  
Old 07-16-2018, 07:53 AM
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This is disappointing to say the least. I was planning to buy out my lease in December. I dislike the new 5 series and this will force me to move on unless I can find some other way. Paying the RV is out of the question. Paying market value is something I would consider.
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  #104  
Old 07-16-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by J.J. View Post
This is disappointing to say the least. I was planning to buy out my lease in December. I dislike the new 5 series and this will force me to move on unless I can find some other way. Paying the RV is out of the question. Paying market value is something I would consider.
I'm going to buy mine because I've shortened maintenance intervals to 7K miles and the car has been perfect so far. I've also added heat barrier insulation to the heat affected trouble prone parts in the hot-V area. Those have value to me and like you I also do not want a G30 with X-drive anything else without a V8.

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  #105  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Wait. I'm late to this thread. Did I get this right?

OP has learned that he can buy someone else's low mileage 335 lease return, PLUS a Platinum warranty, for less than what BMW FS told him 36 months ago his 328 would cost? And he's COMPLAINING?

I mean, we seriously considered buying our 340 6MT at lease end, but we might have to buy an M3 instead?

My God do I feel hosed.

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I don't think you understand what this thread is about. It has nothing to do with buying another car.

It is about arbitrage opportunity and using BMW's leasing program to your advantage if your intention is to BUY. This whole thing is about financing a purchase but letting BMW take the extra depreciation risks. And now that option is gone. The finance nerds who can structure the deal properly now has to lease or buy like regular chumps.

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  #106  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
I am the OP of this thread. I dont recall complaining (and I dont have a 328 ). As a matter of fact, I believe I said:




So I believe that you must be talking about someone else in this thread?
Well, you can believe whatever the heck you want. I believe I’ll have another beer.
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  #107  
Old 07-16-2018, 03:39 PM
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It is unclear what discount is like for MSP $80k car.

For $50k car, $10k-$11k is doable with local President's members.
It doesn't really matter. You have to assume that you can strike the same discount whether you are buying or leasing.

That's why I just use generic example of invoice + $500 as the sales price. I also specifically didn't take into account of incentives in my example.

The bottom line is that I usually keep my car 5 or 6 years. It was much cheaper for me to lease for 36 months then buy at MV vs. buying from the start. You let BMW take ~$10k in depreciation that you don't have to finance. They've now taken that option away from us.

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  #108  
Old 07-16-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
It doesn't really matter. You have to assume that you can strike the same discount whether you are buying or leasing.

That's why I just use generic example of invoice + $500 as the sales price. I also specifically didn't take into account of incentives in my example.

The bottom line is that I usually keep my car 5 or 6 years. It was much cheaper for me to lease for 36 months then buy at MV vs. buying from the start. You let BMW take ~$10k in depreciation that you don't have to finance. They've now taken that option away from us.
Check out post#101, the regional incentives for leases and cash/finance are different, so the assumption that customers can strike the same discount whether buying or leasing is incorrect.

The customers need to find out the local incentives and factor the delta into their decision process.
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  #109  
Old 07-21-2018, 09:53 AM
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In the interest of more information sharing, here is some additional (very reliable ) information I just got on this. The amount of discount that is offered from the RV differs depending on model year of car, and model of car. The note also says that the information is "reviewed updated and published periodically", and calls these "CPO Promotional discounts"

It appears that right now, MY 2015s have additional discounts on them compared to 2014 / 2016 / 2017 (please remember that this is all in relationship to LEASE BUY OUT, not any other discounts or situation).

2015 328i = 4000
2015 335i = 4000
2015 5 series (excluding M) = 5000
2015 6 Series (excluding M) = 6000
2015 7 Series = 7000

For all others (2014,2016,2017) the CPO promotional discount (discount from RV as I understand it, referencing the information from my first post):

All 1 Series (including M) = 500
All 2 Series (including M) = 700
All 3 series (including M) = 800
All 4 series (including M) = 1000
All 5 series (including M) = 1000
All 6 Series (including M) = 1200
All 7 Series = 2000
All i3 = 6000
All i8 = 2000
All X1 = 1000
All X3 = 900
All X4 = 500
All X5 = 1200
All X6 = 1200
All Z3/Z4 = 300
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  #110  
Old 07-21-2018, 09:59 AM
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Thanks a lot for sharing!

Does "CPO Promotional discounts" mean they will make the car qualify for CPO automatically? Or does it mean only cars qualified for CPO can get such discount off RV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
In the interest of more information sharing, here is some additional (very reliable ) information I just got on this. The amount of discount that is offered from the RV differs depending on model year of car, and model of car. The note also says that the information is "reviewed updated and published periodically", and calls these "CPO Promotional discounts"

It appears that right now, MY 2015s have additional discounts on them compared to 2014 / 2016 / 2017 (please remember that this is all in relationship to LEASE BUY OUT, not any other discounts or situation).

2015 328i = 4000
2015 335i = 4000
2015 5 series (excluding M) = 5000
2015 6 Series (excluding M) = 6000
2015 7 Series = 7000

For all others (2014,2016,2017) the CPO promotional discount (discount from RV as I understand it, referencing the information from my first post):

All 1 Series (including M) = 500
All 2 Series (including M) = 700
All 3 series (including M) = 800
All 4 series (including M) = 1000
All 5 series (including M) = 1000
All 6 Series (including M) = 1200
All 7 Series = 2000
All i3 = 6000
All i8 = 2000
All X1 = 1000
All X3 = 900
All X4 = 500
All X5 = 1200
All X6 = 1200
All Z3/Z4 = 300
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  #111  
Old 07-21-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by shaftwhy View Post
Thanks a lot for sharing!

Does "CPO Promotional discounts" mean they will make the car qualify for CPO automatically? Or does it mean only cars qualified for CPO can get such discount off RV?
Thats a really good question, and I dont have the answer to that currently. I will see if I can find out.
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  #112  
Old 07-21-2018, 10:48 AM
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Thats a really good question, and I dont have the answer to that currently. I will see if I can find out.
So these discounts are for lease buyout of the original lessee?

Or these are discounts for CPOed lease return that are purchased by anyone other than original lessee?
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  #113  
Old 07-21-2018, 11:36 AM
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So these discounts are for lease buyout of the original lessee?

Or these are discounts for CPOed lease return that are purchased by anyone other than original lessee?
The context that I received the information means these are the discounts that are currently being offered to the original lessee if they choose to buy out their lease. For an example see post #1.
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  #114  
Old 07-21-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
The context that I received the information means these are the discounts that are currently being offered to the original lessee if they choose to buy out their lease. For an example see post #1.


Thank you for sharing for all the other ‘festers in a similar position.

Is this a fairly new program that BMW NA/FS has in place to manage the surplus of off lease vehicles? I have always ordered a new BMW prior to lease end, so I have never had this discussion with a CA and find this interesting. Discount is nothing to with the new polices for the original owner as you discussed in post #1; pretty much marking up a $10 item to $50 for the original owner with a paltry $5 discount.
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  #115  
Old 07-21-2018, 01:46 PM
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@Ibiza, from what I can tell, it seemed that the program changes were recent (possibly as late as june of this year but it could have been a bit earlier. I normally just order a new car (or buy one off the lot) when my lease is up as well, but as we all know the cost of that is getting more expensive, so I started investigating "getting off the lease wheel" so to speak for myself.

I still am not sure what I am going to do (order a new BMW, still buy mine even though it would be under water by a few thousand the second I did it, or ride this lease out and buy a gently used BMW (or other car).

I thought others might be in a similar situation so wanted to pass on what I was finding.
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  #116  
Old 07-21-2018, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
The context that I received the information means these are the discounts that are currently being offered to the original lessee if they choose to buy out their lease. For an example see post #1.
This is good news, so instead of figuring out auction price/BMWFS price to dealer, BMWFS just steps up and offer fixed discount to original lessees.
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  #117  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:59 PM
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My plan is to drive my beater truck back and forth for my daily commute instead of the Bimmer each day. By doing this I calculate my car will have about 12K less miles on it at lease-end and thus will probably have a real value a lot closer to the buyout price than it would have with the original miles I bought with the lease.

Even if it costs me a little more than what I could pay for a comparable used BMW equipped the same, I know (as the only driver) that it's been handled with kid gloves since delivery.
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  #118  
Old 07-22-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast 456 View Post
My plan is to drive my beater truck back and forth for my daily commute instead of the Bimmer each day. By doing this I calculate my car will have about 12K less miles on it at lease-end and thus will probably have a real value a lot closer to the buyout price than it would have with the original miles I bought with the lease.

Even if it costs me a little more than what I could pay for a comparable used BMW equipped the same, I know (as the only driver) that it's been handled with kid gloves since delivery.

Why not just enjoy it in daily commute, buy it at the lease end, and forget about MV at all? If you already plan to keep the car long term, 12k miles doesn’t seem matter at all. The enjoyment matters more.


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  #119  
Old 07-22-2018, 03:38 PM
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Why not just enjoy it in daily commute, buy it at the lease end, and forget about MV at all? If you already plan to keep the car long term, 12k miles doesn’t seem matter at all. The enjoyment matters more.


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Lease buyout also means there is no over mileage. It is unclear the buyout discount that JJ mentioned is mileage based or not, but the discount should be good enough to consider the buyout.
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  #120  
Old 07-22-2018, 04:36 PM
Enthusiast 456 Enthusiast 456 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enthusiast 456 View Post
My plan is to drive my beater truck back and forth for my daily commute instead of the Bimmer each day. By doing this I calculate my car will have about 12K less miles on it at lease-end and thus will probably have a real value a lot closer to the buyout price than it would have with the original miles I bought with the lease.

Even if it costs me a little more than what I could pay for a comparable used BMW equipped the same, I know (as the only driver) that it's been handled with kid gloves since delivery.

Why not just enjoy it in daily commute, buy it at the lease end, and forget about MV at all? If you already plan to keep the car long term, 12k miles doesn't seem matter at all. The enjoyment matters more.


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Of course I agree with the enjoyment. But then again why subject my car to the lousy roads and utterly-incompetent "drivers" who infest this area just to get back and forth to work?

This way, when I take the Bimmer out it's to enjoy the drive not to put up with the mental midgets.
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  #121  
Old 07-29-2018, 04:01 PM
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Not mileage based. Any available BMW FS discount is from contracted residual under this new program.

And regarding those with M3/M4 models... residuals (with normal mile vehicles) are within $1k or so of BMW FS' dynamic pricing. I ran mine in May and a week ago and they were within $200. So the change didn't really affect these models. F80/F82 are pretty hot commodities at auction and usually bring over mmr not mmr. Who knows about auction values after the next gen is launched though

Last edited by Robotechnology; 07-29-2018 at 04:04 PM.
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  #122  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:41 AM
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Is there a business for an individual with a car sales license to basically broker a lease end buy out? Buy from BMW dealer as an independent entity, then sell back to orignal leasee in a second transaction. Flat fee for service. 750, 1000.

BMWNA might not like it. May not technically be agaisnt their new rules....but they may not appreciate the distinction.

Thoughts?
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  #123  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:54 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Is there a business for an individual with a car sales license to basically broker a lease end buy out? Buy from BMW dealer as an independent entity, then sell back to orignal leasee in a second transaction. Flat fee for service. 750, 1000.

BMWNA might not like it. May not technically be agaisnt their new rules....but they may not appreciate the distinction.

Thoughts?
The problem with that as I see it, is the dealer you turn the car into does not "have" to keep it. They can give it back to BMW (with some caveats). The original leasee would have to turn it in, and the dealer would have to decide to keep it, then re condition it, then put it on the lot. Only at that point would someone else be able to buy it.

If the dealer decides not to keep it, the car would end up either at the BMW only internal auction, and then if no dealer buys it, at regular auction. So, the "broker" would have to constantly check for the car, etc to see where it went, then buy it wherever it ended up (at whatever the market price is) then mark that up for their time in hunting it down to the original owner.

Not "impossible" but I dont think thats a sustainable business.

If one had a very willing / very very friendly dealer, one could likely work with someone in charge there to keep the car, and sell it to a friend (with a different address etc), and then the friend could sell it to the original leasee. The friend would pay tax on the transaction, and then tax would likely be charged again when the friend sold it to the leasee (although I am not a tax expert by any means).

Also, there would be zero leverage on the price with the dealer. They would have to know what was going on because they would have to keep the car and not send it to auction.

How much discount would one expect in such a situation after all that extra work and tax? Its likely that by the time one got done, any savings would be eaten up.

Of course, all the above is just my opinion, not fact.
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  #124  
Old 08-04-2018, 11:08 AM
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Big Changes in lease buyout pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
If the dealer decides not to keep it, the car would end up either at the BMW only internal auction, and then if no dealer buys it, at regular auction. So, the "broker" would have to constantly check for the car, etc to see where it went, then buy it wherever it ended up (at whatever the market price is) then mark that up for their time in hunting it down to the original owner.


Wouldn't be an issue to locate the vehicle via BMWGroupDirect :

https://bmwgroupdirect.com

RMS Automotive and Manheim provide the portal, just need an account that I believe would require a state auto sales license.

Calender of auctions:

http://calendars.manheimconsignor.com/bmw/

Could call the LLC Fest Off Lease, just need to find the easiest state for a auto re-sale license and offer festers a set price of $1,000 ($250 BMW fee + $750 administration fee) over auction price exclusive of transportation.

EDIT:

Requires a AuctionAccess ID- sign up requires a salesperson license. If enough volume is available to justify the costs....
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  #125  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:32 PM
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The problem with that as I see it, is the dealer you turn the car into does not "have" to keep it. They can give it back to BMW (with some caveats). The original leasee would have to turn it in, and the dealer would have to decide to keep it, then re condition it, then put it on the lot. Only at that point would someone else be able to buy it.

If the dealer decides not to keep it, the car would end up either at the BMW only internal auction, and then if no dealer buys it, at regular auction. So, the "broker" would have to constantly check for the car, etc to see where it went, then buy it wherever it ended up (at whatever the market price is) then mark that up for their time in hunting it down to the original owner.

Not "impossible" but I dont think thats a sustainable business.

If one had a very willing / very very friendly dealer, one could likely work with someone in charge there to keep the car, and sell it to a friend (with a different address etc), and then the friend could sell it to the original leasee. The friend would pay tax on the transaction, and then tax would likely be charged again when the friend sold it to the leasee (although I am not a tax expert by any means).

Also, there would be zero leverage on the price with the dealer. They would have to know what was going on because they would have to keep the car and not send it to auction.

How much discount would one expect in such a situation after all that extra work and tax? Its likely that by the time one got done, any savings would be eaten up.

Of course, all the above is just my opinion, not fact.
I havent spent much time thinking on it, but this would basically be a brokerage thing-broker calls dealer and says 'my client is leasing, Id like to buy the car from you- let me know what you can do (ie how much BMWFS wants)'.

Basically like a friend buying it, but that friend doesnt pay tax.

My bet is dealers wont do it, too much fear of AG
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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