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E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
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  #1  
Old 06-14-2019, 11:07 AM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Sluggish Acceleration?

I've been finding that the car has exhibited sluggish acceleration lately...

If I punch the gas pedal on the highway, it's as if it "chokes" a bit first before starting to pick up power.

I was thinking maybe I'm not driving in the proper range of the power band...i.e. most power/torque at higher RPM's?

Or possibly fuel injectors?

Anyone else experience this and have some suggestions?

2008 E63 with 62km (~40k miles) and 6-speed MT.
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:20 PM
BamaGoose BamaGoose is offline
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sport mode or regular?
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:49 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afeudale View Post
I've been finding that the car has exhibited sluggish acceleration lately...

If I punch the gas pedal on the highway, it's as if it "chokes" a bit first before starting to pick up power.

I was thinking maybe I'm not driving in the proper range of the power band...i.e. most power/torque at higher RPM's?

Or possibly fuel injectors?

Anyone else experience this and have some suggestions?

2008 E63 with 62km (~40k miles) and 6-speed MT.
It sounds like you might be running in Safe Mode, possibly a problem with the Vanos system, or MAP sensor. Safe Mode is not the correct term, but I can't think of what I want to say.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:24 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Originally Posted by BamaGoose View Post
sport mode or regular?
Thanks BamaGoose. It's happening in regular/non-sport mode.

I rarely use sport mode. I think it only affects the suspension and the pedal response, right? But this doesn't seem to be a pedal response issue...

I remember it being quite different from when I first got the car about 8 months ago. It had much better responsiveness then - even in non-sport mode.
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2019, 08:25 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
It sounds like you might be running in Safe Mode, possibly a problem with the Vanos system, or MAP sensor. Safe Mode is not the correct term, but I can't think of what I want to say.
Thanks HerbP! What's safe mode?? I only recognize that term from MS Windows starting up! hahaha

Are there some quick checks I can do myself to determine safe mode/vanos/map sensor?

I have Carly diagnostics and it doesn't show any errors...I would think vanos/map would trigger an error, no?

Last edited by afeudale; 06-15-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2019, 06:56 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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The Vanos system will go into a Failsafe mode, or a default limp mode to keep the car driveable. There will be a loss of power, but the engine will get you around. Unplug your MAP sensor or any components related to the Vanos system, & you will notice the difference. I am not sure if Carly will let you test the Vanos system for problems, like ISTA will?
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:26 PM
[email protected] myles4gone@aol. is offline
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Check your CCV valve boots, they are probably ripped.
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2019, 08:27 PM
zod zod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afeudale View Post
I've been finding that the car has exhibited sluggish acceleration lately...

If I punch the gas pedal on the highway, it's as if it "chokes" a bit first before starting to pick up power.

I was thinking maybe I'm not driving in the proper range of the power band...i.e. most power/torque at higher RPM's?

Or possibly fuel injectors?

Anyone else experience this and have some suggestions?

2008 E63 with 62km (~40k miles) and 6-speed MT.
1. It's mostly like the back two barrels opened too quickly or a bit like turbo lag. Sport mode will cure some of that. It won't fix blipping the throttle for down shifts.

2. Torque peaks at 3400 per the manual. Truck-like curve. HP determines your top end.

3. I did a major service at 90K and ran a bottle Techron fuel system cleaner thru afterwards just in case and no difference in either mode.

This is the BMW drive by wire world. I have to slow my foot down in wifey's 240SX.

Last edited by zod; 06-22-2019 at 09:04 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2019, 10:17 AM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Hey guys, sorry for the delay and thanks to everyone for the replies! I wasn't getting notifications of replies to this thread...

@HerbP - I'm going to check out the MAP sensor and maybe just replace it as it isn't too expensive I believe. It doesn't seem like limp-mode, as the power is definitely there - just a lag at initial throttle press.

@myles4gone - I had the CCV valves replaced a few months ago, so I don't think there are any rips, but maybe they installed them poorly?

@zod - yes, it totally feels like turbo-lag! I also just did the BMW fuel cleaner/Techron and didn't notice anything yet. My biggest concern is that I don't remember this "lag" when I first got the car about 8 months ago. But maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.

I don't mind it necessarily and am not racing anyone...lol...I'm just concerned if it's a bigger issue that's going to crop up at some point.

I checked Carly and no errors other than the usual suspects.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:44 PM
zod zod is offline
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i bought this car 14 months ago. It did the bog and surge so much in standard mode that SWMBO asked what was wrong with my car. Sport mode is better, but you can get some herky jerky in first gear. I'm just looking to drive sporty and it's my first drive by wire car.

There's no realistic way to get anymore grunt out of the car, but fixing the throttle response seems attractive. Forum members seem to like this:




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  #11  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:35 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Thanks zod!

I think the Sport button should have the same effect as a Sprint Booster, no?

They both increase the pedal response from what I understand and the sprint booster is for cars that don't have the Sport button installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zod View Post
i bought this car 14 months ago. It did the bog and surge so much in standard mode that SWMBO asked what was wrong with my car. Sport mode is better, but you can get some herky jerky in first gear. I'm just looking to drive sporty and it's my first drive by wire car.

There's no realistic way to get anymore grunt out of the car, but fixing the throttle response seems attractive. Forum members seem to like this:




Thread notification around here has a strange algorithm.
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2019, 03:47 PM
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roseng roseng is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afeudale View Post
Thanks zod!

I think the Sport button should have the same effect as a Sprint Booster, no?

They both increase the pedal response from what I understand and the sprint booster is for cars that don't have the Sport button installed.
No the Sprint Booster remaps the gas pedal. It's a very different experience than sport mode. I have a friend that has it on his M6 and it may not be any faster with it on, but it sure feels like it.
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2019, 04:35 PM
zod zod is offline
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I'm thinking S5 would like an E28 535is throttle response. Same kind of gearing in the first three gears, but a lot more torque down low.

Last edited by zod; 06-25-2019 at 05:46 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:51 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afeudale View Post
Hey guys, sorry for the delay and thanks to everyone for the replies! I wasn't getting notifications of replies to this thread...

@HerbP - I'm going to check out the MAP sensor and maybe just replace it as it isn't too expensive I believe. It doesn't seem like limp-mode, as the power is definitely there - just a lag at initial throttle press.

@myles4gone - I had the CCV valves replaced a few months ago, so I don't think there are any rips, but maybe they installed them poorly?

@zod - yes, it totally feels like turbo-lag! I also just did the BMW fuel cleaner/Techron and didn't notice anything yet. My biggest concern is that I don't remember this "lag" when I first got the car about 8 months ago. But maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.

I don't mind it necessarily and am not racing anyone...lol...I'm just concerned if it's a bigger issue that's going to crop up at some point.

I checked Carly and no errors other than the usual suspects.
If you have access to a smoke tester, run a smoke test on the engine. It is starting to sound more of a vacuum leak issue somewhere. Check your email address to make sure it is set up properly for replies to the thread. I have seen mine act up lately also.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:43 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Hey guys! Just an update:

Replaced the 4 Vanos solenoids today and believe the problem is solved! Low end pickup is much better and the lag/lurch/hesitation seems to be gone.

I read some posts that just replacing the o-rings might be the trick, but my mechanic said the solenoids are a wear item that probably needs replacing after certain mileage anyway, so I did them. Not cheap - about $600 from the stealership - even after my large discount.

Hope it helps someone else with the issue!
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:38 PM
zod zod is offline
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Now you have me thinking. I'm at 98K mi. and throttle response in sport mode seems more sluggish than a few weeks ago. Torque seems to be down and it's also been very hot here: 90-95F. Any particular way to diagnose this?

Last edited by zod; 07-19-2019 at 04:45 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2019, 07:00 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Most of the time oil varnish builds up inside the solenoids. You usually can use WD-40 or brake cleaner to clean the solenoids. If the smaller o-ring has a slight groove in it, oil can bypass the solenoid path, & change the timing.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:48 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zod View Post
Now you have me thinking. I'm at 98K mi. and throttle response in sport mode seems more sluggish than a few weeks ago. Torque seems to be down and it's also been very hot here: 90-95F. Any particular way to diagnose this?
I read on some other forums that it's a maintenance item, so maybe at 98k miles it's worth changing them anyways (if they were never changed)

My car has 65k (kilometers), and they were obviously already acting up as I noticed a huge difference today! The old ones *looked* to be fine though...so I guess it's hard to tell if they're bad by just looking at them.

If cash is tight, just do the 2 o-rings on each one as a start.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2019, 08:22 AM
zod zod is offline
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I don't mind doing it, if it's truly a maintenance item. I'm going to be doing the 100K service soon so I may as well put it on the list.

Last edited by zod; 07-20-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:20 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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Originally Posted by zod View Post
I don't mind doing it, if it's truly a maintenance item. I'm going to be doing the 100K service soon so I may as well put it on the list.
For sure, do it!

Post back here with the results so others experiencing similar issues might find this thread.
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  #21  
Old 07-20-2019, 07:23 PM
zod zod is offline
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Du bist so ein necker


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Last edited by zod; 07-21-2019 at 07:16 PM.
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2019, 04:48 PM
zod zod is offline
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****Update - discussed replacing the solenoids with my Indy today.He seems to think it's a good idea too based on our mutual circumstances and the data supplied by HerbP. After that, I chased his older 7 car thru traffic on another mission. Fun drive and it feels more like turbo lag now.

Last edited by zod; 07-30-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:37 AM
Stella650i Stella650i is offline
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Have you tried resetting the adaptations and doing a Valvetronic relearn procedure?
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  #24  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:09 PM
zod zod is offline
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Originally Posted by Stella650i View Post
Have you tried resetting the adaptations and doing a Valvetronic relearn procedure?
No, but why would I do that? I haven't changed anything since the 90K service - changed the plugs, oil, fixed all of the leaks and replaced the expansion tank. The plugs looked good and upper end looked nice and clean. They may have replaced the outside O rings. I drove this car in nanny mode until I got the feel of it. The throttle lag that I didn't like in nanny mode is in sport mode now. It happened again yesterday even after a rainstorm cooled things to 75 F.

This is still my first software driven car so I could well be wrong.
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  #25  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:20 PM
Stella650i Stella650i is offline
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That's basically my point, a lot of software and computers. Sometimes a reset can go a long way. In my case the reset of adaptations and DSC, relearn of Valvetronic high/low points made a huge difference.
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