Why did the E63 deprecate so much? 115k brand new and now my 09 is worth 15k - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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Old 06-19-2019, 02:08 PM
terrapinsmdb terrapinsmdb is online now
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Why did the E63 deprecate so much? 115k brand new and now my 09 is worth 15k

Is it because BMW makes more series now? Is it because the 850 looks the same. I purchased mine with 30k 4 years ago for 30k now it has 54k and itís worth 15k?? You would think theyíd bottom out around 30k. Iíve been doing this for years


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Old 06-19-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by terrapinsmdb View Post
Is it because BMW makes more series now? Is it because the 850 looks the same. I purchased mine with 30k 4 years ago for 30k now it has 54k and it's worth 15k?? You would think they'd bottom out around 30k. I've been doing this for years


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Ridiculously high repair cost and low reliability make for serious depreciation.


Regardless of what you pay, any repair is on a 6 series is on a $115k car and costs like it.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:52 PM
terrapinsmdb terrapinsmdb is online now
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Repairs?? Ok you must be new to car buying. Iíve owned 29 cars since I was 16. Iím currently turning 39 July 2nd. I purchase German cars (Audií, Porsche, BMW) when they are off their first lease. The biggest depreciation is the 1st. They are required to be serviced in those 3 years so I know the car is taken car for. Then I purchase the car and immediately post it for sale. If I can make 100 bucks I will. Usually BMWs hold there value and eventually go up if you have the right one. I sold an 87 M6 for $30,000.00. That 1987 M6 needed more repairs then my 2009 650i. Repairs has nothing to do with it my friend. And thereís a difference between value and price. Your car may be worth 20k to you but to someone else it might be worth 10k or 30k. I currently still have my car listed at the original price I bought it for of 30k. The vehicle sold brand new for 128k. The car still look brand new and the only ďrepairĒ Iíve done is the oil cooler sealant gasket which needs to be fixed on every BMW V8. Parts .30 cents Labor $600.00. Other then that I consider myself lucky because I had a few that broke every other week. I believe the depreciation is attributed to BMW making too many of the same series. I canít tell the difference between a 3 series or a 4 series. The new 8 series looks exactly like the 6 series. There are millions of 3 series soon to be 4 series on the roads now. A 6 series is rare to see at least the places Iíve been and thought it bottomed out at 30k. I think BMW screwed me by making the 8 series. So if anyone from BMW is reading this they should give me a new 8 series. Why? Because the customer is always right!


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Old 06-19-2019, 06:54 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by terrapinsmdb View Post
Repairs?? Ok you must be new to car buying. I've owned 29 cars since I was 16. I'm currently turning 39 July 2nd. I purchase German cars (Audi', Porsche, BMW) when they are off their first lease. The biggest depreciation is the 1st. They are required to be serviced in those 3 years so I know the car is taken car for. Then I purchase the car and immediately post it for sale. If I can make 100 bucks I will. Usually BMWs hold there value and eventually go up if you have the right one. I sold an 87 M6 for $30,000.00. That 1987 M6 needed more repairs then my 2009 650i. Repairs has nothing to do with it my friend. And there's a difference between value and price. Your car may be worth 20k to you but to someone else it might be worth 10k or 30k. I currently still have my car listed at the original price I bought it for of 30k. The vehicle sold brand new for 128k. The car still look brand new and the only "repair" I've done is the oil cooler sealant gasket which needs to be fixed on every BMW V8. Parts .30 cents Labor $600.00. Other then that I consider myself lucky because I had a few that broke every other week. I believe the depreciation is attributed to BMW making too many of the same series. I can't tell the difference between a 3 series or a 4 series. The new 8 series looks exactly like the 6 series. There are millions of 3 series soon to be 4 series on the roads now. A 6 series is rare to see at least the places I've been and thought it bottomed out at 30k. I think BMW screwed me by making the 8 series. So if anyone from BMW is reading this they should give me a new 8 series. Why? Because the customer is always right!


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1. Big BMW's depreciate faster than little ones. There are very few 6 Series around because... very few people wanted one when they were making them. As they get older, even fewer people want them. You also have the BB factor working against you. You know. Bangle Butt.

2. BMW M cars depreciate less than non-M cars. My twelve year old E46 M3 coupe with a manual transmission and 115k miles was worth about 20% of MSRP. SMG II or a convertible would have reduced the value considerably.

3. No financial institution is going to write a loan on a ten year old car. That limits any prospects for buying the car to cash customers. Less demand, less value.

4. High mileage hurts the value of a used car more than low mileage helps the value of a used car. The more expensive a car is new, the fewer miles generally get put on them. A ten year old Ferrari with 50k miles is considered a "high-mileage" car. You're suffering the effect of the high-cost, expected low-mileage syndrome, in that you're not getting any premium for the car only having 54k miles. A nine year old 3 Series with 54k miles would be worth a greater portion of its MSRP.

5. Yes, potential repair costs affect the value of the car. A friend of mine has an E63. It belches out smoke when he pulls away from a stoplight. A Toyota Corolla of the same age and mileage will be a worth much more than 15% of MSRP. My twelve year old Cobalt with 122k miles on it is worth about 15% of MSRP. Last year, my Cobalt actually appreciated about $200.

You've averaged a depreciation rate of about 16% per year. That's actually a little better than average. You've been driving a nice BMW for about $4k/year in depreciation plus repairs and gas.

Nothing is 100%, including car flipping.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 06-19-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:06 PM
terrapinsmdb terrapinsmdb is online now
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Nice! Some valid points for once. Iím good at flipping anything I just didnít and still canít believe my car is worth the bluebook value. Itís in mint condition and I have people constantly asking for lease to own and everyone non carlogical thinks I paid 69k for it and when I tell them Iíll sell it to them they tell me they canít afford it. I know the world is mostly full of idiots but Iím still shocked. At least I didnít by one brand new, although outta all my German cars this is my favorite by far. And no offense but everyone know to never by a used m3. Itís always some spoiled rich boys leftover who beat the balls off it. Damn look on here! Everyone want fast instead of class. Every good German mechanic say donít by 3 series, spoiled brat car. Day beat the hell out of them.


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Old 06-19-2019, 08:12 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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There are a lot of M cars that never see a track. A lot of them become garage bunnies too, avoiding sunlight, road salt, and parking lot damage. I had the third E46 M3 coupe the dealer sold. I was in line for my 14k mile oil change when the second E46 M3 the dealer sold pulled up in line behind me for its 1200 mile oil change. I gave the owner my contact information and asked him to please call me when he's ready to sell it. I'm still waiting for that call.

I sold my car in twelve hours for more than KBB. It took twelve hours because I place the ad in the late evening and the buyer didn't call me until the next morning. After that, 200 to 300 more people called or e-mailed me about the car. Talking or typing to that many people gave me an insight to what attracted them: "one owner," "original paint," and "bone stock." Your car doesn't meet that first criterion.

A big part of a new, large European luxury car is the statement it makes: "Look everybody, I'm rich!" The problem is that used large European luxury cars don't make the same statement. Floriduh is one of the no-front-tag states. Anytime we see a car with a front tag holder, we say "That's a used car.... and a used car driver. Hah!"

Also, a big BMW is an acquired taste. I've been to a bunch of Advanced M Schools. A big part of the demographics of people who go to those schools are M5 and M6 owners. Almost all of them have buyers remorse after driving M2's, M3's, and M4's on the track. "I could'a had a.... in-line six... and $50k still in my wallet." One of the students at one of the Advanced M Schools was a retired NASCAR Cup driver. You think that if anybody would prefer tear-assing around in a 4500 pound, 16 foot long car it'd be that guy. But, even he said he preferred the M3's and M4's to the big M's.

I regret buying my 535i. I love the car... after I ditched the run-flat tires, anyway. But, in hindsight I would have loved a 335i/435i/M3/M4 more. If my car was totaled tomorrow, I'd order either an M2 or a 230i.

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Old 06-20-2019, 06:30 PM
HerbP HerbP is online now
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Originally Posted by terrapinsmdb View Post
Repairs?? Ok you must be new to car buying. Iíve owned 29 cars since I was 16. Iím currently turning 39 July 2nd. I purchase German cars (Audií, Porsche, BMW) when they are off their first lease. The biggest depreciation is the 1st. They are required to be serviced in those 3 years so I know the car is taken car for. Then I purchase the car and immediately post it for sale. If I can make 100 bucks I will. Usually BMWs hold there value and eventually go up if you have the right one. I sold an 87 M6 for $30,000.00. That 1987 M6 needed more repairs then my 2009 650i. Repairs has nothing to do with it my friend. And thereís a difference between value and price. Your car may be worth 20k to you but to someone else it might be worth 10k or 30k. I currently still have my car listed at the original price I bought it for of 30k. The vehicle sold brand new for 128k. The car still look brand new and the only ďrepairĒ Iíve done is the oil cooler sealant gasket which needs to be fixed on every BMW V8. Parts .30 cents Labor $600.00. Other then that I consider myself lucky because I had a few that broke every other week. I believe the depreciation is attributed to BMW making too many of the same series. I canít tell the difference between a 3 series or a 4 series. The new 8 series looks exactly like the 6 series. There are millions of 3 series soon to be 4 series on the roads now. A 6 series is rare to see at least the places Iíve been and thought it bottomed out at 30k. I think BMW screwed me by making the 8 series. So if anyone from BMW is reading this they should give me a new 8 series. Why? Because the customer is always right!


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The BMW 8 Series has not been made in several generations, I am not sure how that could effect the depreciation on your 2009 650? If you live in the US & flip cars, you will learn that a new tax is coming to your state soon. The car dealers have lobbied to tax any private sale, at the same rate you pay at the dealer. If you buy a car & make 100.00, you just lost 15 % on that car, & the next one you buy due to taxes imposed by the state. I also used to buy & sell at a frequent rate, but with the new state tax imposed on private sales, it is not worth my time any longer. Do I still watch the market on used cars, yes. The price must be good enough to take a risk to make a profit, after taxes are paid.

The average price depreciation on a 2009 650 is between 4 to 5k per year. Yes it sucks, but we already know that!
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:09 PM
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Repairs?? Ok you must be new to car buying.
I'd say you are funny or cute but you are neither. I personally find your tone to be pretty insulting. Long before you were born I was flipping cars on a regular basis. Long before you figured out how to find this forum I was helping people to make the best out of their rides 6 series, and they were helping me as well.

Repairs are a huge issue in the value of the cars. Not for the unsuspecting buyer that thinks getting a $120K car for $15k is an amazing deal, but for the current owners to give up and dump the car rather than deal with the high cost of maintenance with leaky gaskets, valve stem issues etc. it can be cheaper to dump it for a low price than make the investment of time and /or money to keep these beasts moving.

As for making too many of the same model, the 6 is the most limited production car they make. No, BMW did not screw you. The don't even know you exist. If you bother to check look at the MB S Class and other models from the same years you'll find similar issues.

If your motto is "If I can make a hundred bucks I make it" that's good for you. I have better things to do than make $100 on a car.

As Herb said, the 8 series has nothing to do with it. And from the 1 series to the 8 series they all look the same now except each one is 3 inches longer.

Like Italian cars, German cars drive nice while they are driving. You want an investment you've come the the wrong place.

BTW if you want to really see the pain goto the M6 forum. and look at SMG and bearing issues.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:48 PM
zod zod is offline
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And people don't like driving cars anymore these days.

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Old 06-22-2019, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by terrapinsmdb View Post
Is it because BMW makes more series now? Is it because the 850 looks the same. I purchased mine with 30k 4 years ago for 30k now it has 54k and itís worth 15k?? You would think theyíd bottom out around 30k. Iíve been doing this for years


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Only ///M series cars appreciate after a certain amount of years. Especially the clean ones.
The 8 series has got nothing to do with the the tired E63, the F06, F12 dropping in value, more so.
Sent from the future.

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Old 06-24-2019, 03:57 PM
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Nobody considers a used euro car to be a reliable cost effective option, and repair costs are known to be exponentially higher than an american suv for example. This is what I believed before owning one. I also think mercedes service prices stain all euro vehicles as well, as they are just plain stupid overpriced. Look at your insurance costs as well...

My 3 series was previously owned by a middle aged new jersey dental school professor, but I usually see women driving them around here - exotic dancers? Definately not forum types...

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Old 06-24-2019, 06:57 PM
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If you were doing this for years, you would already know the answer - so your statement is false to begin with.
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Old 06-24-2019, 07:09 PM
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Nobody considers a used euro car to be a reliable cost effective option, and repair costs are known to be exponentially higher than an american suv for example. This is what I believed before owning one. I also think mercedes service prices stain all euro vehicles as well, as they are just plain stupid overpriced. Look at your insurance costs as well...

My 3 series was previously owned by a middle aged new jersey dental school professor, but I usually see women driving them around here - exotic dancers? Definately not forum types...

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I think that's a problem... not enough exotic dancers on this forum. My former co-worker, the UberMILF, a former stripper turned mathematician, loved my M3 and had a non-M 3 Series when she was in college.
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:31 PM
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The new 8 series looks exactly like the 6 series.
Not even close! The 6 has a timeless design with many classic BMW cues merged with a modern design. The 8 has a gimmicky and trendy design that ignores classic BMW cues and merges them with a bunch of Japanese inspired themes.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:43 PM
afeudale afeudale is offline
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I don't see the complaint in lower pricing? That depreciation is also what allows many of to *own* these cars in the first place! I paid $19k for mine about 8 months ago and it ticked all the boxes:

- German engineering
- V8 NA Engine
- Manual Transmission
- RWD
- Low Mileage
- Timeless appearance (IMO)

What other car can you get for that price with all the above??

It it had held it's value, I might not have bought it! So the depreciation is a bonus! Most cars are not an investment, so if you keep it for a long time, who cares what the resale is?
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Old 06-26-2019, 04:23 PM
karzrus karzrus is offline
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I'm sure it's just temporary, wait a few months and it will be back in the 30K range.
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Old 07-24-2019, 12:28 PM
terrapinsmdb terrapinsmdb is online now
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Yea my point exactly. The higher price keeps the rift raft like you out. Id rather class then fast


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Old 07-24-2019, 04:26 PM
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Yea my point exactly. The higher price keeps the rift raft like you out. Id rather class then fast


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Personal attacks will not be tolerated here. This needs to stop now!
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Old 07-25-2019, 02:22 AM
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Dear mod and all who contribute to regulating what can be expressed and what can't around these parts, have you ever wondered why contrary to Bimmerfest, other Bmw forums have a vibrant, active OT section?

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Old 07-25-2019, 06:35 AM
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Dear mod and all who contribute to regulating what can be expressed and what can't around these parts, have you ever wondered why contrary to Bimmerfest, other Bmw forums have a vibrant, active OT section?

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This was not just opinion, but a personal attack on someone. There is no need to call some body out that is rift rat! We have other forum for topics like this, but not here. We should all be better than this.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:50 AM
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Dear mod and all who contribute to regulating what can be expressed and what can't around these parts, have you ever wondered why contrary to Bimmerfest, other Bmw forums have a vibrant, active OT section?

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Vibrant? Ha! As Herb stated, we don't degrade people here.

You miss the point of why so many people believe this is the best forum out there. We are here for one reason, to help fellow owners.
Since you don't seem to own a 6 series it is obvious you have not come here often, and are not familiar with the tone of this forum.
This is a helpful and sincere group.

If you want to trash talk go elsewhere. If you have something to offer the other members here, please join in anytime.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:13 AM
asimrazvi asimrazvi is offline
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Depreciation is faster than dropping HBO after GOT. I have a 2007 650i and not sure what to do with it. It has 160k been babied but it has issues. I am going to have to do some wangling to get it smogged after the stem valve issue and it has had all the coolant issues you have all talked about. It still looks good but its worth nothing and now the battery is dead I am thinking I will spend more than the car is worth to put it back on the road. Its a one owner car, I paid $85k new and I have a sinking feeling that under 5k these cars are going to start selling again and the market will pick back up like it did for the previous generation 635s and they will once again be worth something in 10 years. However I will have sold it or sent it for a tax writeoff by then.

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Old 07-25-2019, 11:45 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Depreciation on newer cars is inevitable, and the expensive BMW and Mercedes cars suffer the most from it. Porsche less so, although it seems not so old used Macans are going for nearly nothing...

I bought my 07 650i in 2009. It was a less than two year old car with 13k miles, the manual 6 speed I wanted and searched for, documented service that included an oil change at 9k miles, lived in a garage in Newport Beach, and was loaded with options (sport package, pearl leather, HUD, comfort access, optional audio system, and the useless night vision camera.) Sticker on that car was near $87k, I have it... I negotiated it down to $40k so all in with tax and reg it ended up costing $43k. From $87k sticker to $40k in less than two years works out to $2k per month; that is depreciation!
In 2016 we sold our primary home in the SF Bay Area and consequently lost garage space. After a year of juggling cars and paying for garage rental, I reluctantly put the 650 up for sale on BMW CCA for $17k. By then it had 60k miles. I got several calls but no 'reasonable' offers. I may have been able to get $13k for it. $30k drop in eight years, could be worse... My parents who live in France have a four car garage occupied with only two cars. I go there 3 to 4 times a year so having my own car was appealing. Rather than give a perfectly good car away I moved it there. The move cost money but the car has depreciated to the point where it has more value to me than its monetary value. It was my dream car 10 years ago, and I can hold on to it and enjoy it for relatively little money, much less than depreciation on a newer car. On top of that I feel the style of the 6 series and the third pedal in mine makes it special. Over in Normandy you don't see a 6 series every day.

So, long story short, if you have decided to sell the car and it has to go, be realistic about its value and let it go at the first offer that comes near that. If you don't have to or want to sell it, hang on to it. They are still very nice and comfortable cars to drive and the tech is not completely obsolete.
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Old 07-25-2019, 11:56 AM
asimrazvi asimrazvi is offline
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I see your point here, I love the car had it since new and now its worth like 3k. It looks fantastic and like you its my first car I really loved. I hate to see it go to waste so I am struggling with what to do. I don't want to make money selling it at this point I would rather it go to a good home. So will look and see how I can survive with it.

thanks

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Old 07-25-2019, 02:03 PM
zod zod is offline
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I found the irony to be rather thick. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/riffraff

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