BMW Is Planning to Sell Heated Seats and More as a Subscription - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > G30 (2017 - Current)

G30 (2017 - Current)
The next generation 5 Series, chassis code G30, arrives at dealers in February 2017. Looking like a scaled down 7 Series and riding on the CLAR platform, the new 5 Series will have a focus on lightweight and sporty performance. Engines options will come from BMW's new B family for the 530 and 540 and a turbocharged V8 for the M550i. Read more about the 2017 5 Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-03-2020, 10:41 AM
CGP CGP is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Canada
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 967
Mein Auto: G30 540
BMW Is Planning to Sell Heated Seats and More as a Subscription

To make consumers pay by subscription for hardware already installed in their car is slimy.

https://driving.ca/bmw/auto-news/new...a-subscription.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 07-03-2020, 12:37 PM
Jack_88 Jack_88 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 152
Mein Auto:
I will not buy a BMW requiring subscriptions for features. End of story.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-03-2020, 01:32 PM
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,806
Mein Auto: 2014 535i M Sport
Hopefully this is a trial balloon. I'm pretty sure the hue & cry from the public will stop this in its tracks. One of the reasons Tesla doesn't interest me is their attitude that you may own the car, but THEY own the technology.
__________________

Mike
2014 535i M Sport, Carbon Black/Black (mine)
2012 535i, Dark Graphite II/Oyster (wife's)
Joshua 24:15; Phil 4:13
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-lim/
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 07-03-2020, 02:13 PM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Greater Phoenix
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,884
Mein Auto: BMW 530e
One version I have read is that it will enable BMW to sell features to customers that they didn't originally ask for. This could be a real benefit for used car buyers as it would increase their ability to find cars with features they want. So if this is the plan, I approve.

If, on the other hand, BMW intends to force consumers to pay for features on a subscription basis whether they want to or not, then I will go elsewhere.

Of course, BMW could care less if I approve or go elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-2020, 05:42 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,576
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGP View Post
To make consumers pay by subscription for hardware already installed in their car is slimy.

https://driving.ca/bmw/auto-news/new...a-subscription.
Yes this sounds like nonsense but I can see Concierge, BMW remote services falling into this category. Heated seats? Safety features? this IS a slippery slope giving advantage to carmakers that don't do this...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-2020, 06:31 PM
wcr3d wcr3d is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Indiana
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,884
Mein Auto: 2013 535iX M Sport
It sounds strange, unlike BMW, ya the subscription part, but that does mean they will have to produce cars with the hardware part already installed.
Huge upfront cost on a gamble, that is the unlikely part. Not to mention how long it would take the coders/hackers to crack and turn on everything!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-03-2020, 06:36 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,759
Mein Auto: See Sig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_88 View Post
I will not buy a BMW requiring subscriptions for features. End of story.
Could not agree more. As wrc says, the heated seats would have to already be installed. There is no additional cost on their part for the owner to use them. I predict it never gets off the ground.
__________________
2017 BMW 540 M-Sport Carbon Black/Ivory
2016 Lexus GX 460---Wife's car
Bikes...2017 Yamaha FJR1300---2020 Kawasaki 1000SX---2012 Ducati Panigale
Previous BMW: 2012 550 M-Sport
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-04-2020, 06:53 AM
markl53's Avatar
markl53 markl53 is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,695
Mein Auto: 2018 540i
That linked article is full of "maybe's", "might be", etc. Nobody will ever be able to sell a car with a physical item, such as heated seats, being a "pay as you go" item. This will never happen. I think the article is a disservice and has little basis in actual fact.

That said, all this subscription nonsense has to end. How many "low monthly payments" are people (i.e., millennials?) willing to spend? Sell me an item, I pay for it, it's mine -- not yours.
__________________
BMW-CCA
Bimmerfest Supporting Member



Current: 2018 540i MSport | Med Blue/Cognac| MSport Brakes | Multi-Contour | HK | ZLP
Prior: 2014 535i Individual | Azurite Black/Amaro Brown Merino | Premium | Cold | PDC | Rear Camera
Prior: 2011 535i AT | Black Sapphire/Cinnamon | Premium | Heated Sts | Nav | Sirius | Anthracite Hdr & Trim
Prior: 2008 335i 6MT Sedan | Black Sapphire/Terra Leather | Premium | Cold | CA
Prior: 2005 330i 6MT | Black Sapphire/Sand Leather
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-04-2020, 09:19 AM
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,806
Mein Auto: 2014 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
...
That said, all this subscription nonsense has to end. How many "low monthly payments" are people (i.e., millennials?) willing to spend? Sell me an item, I pay for it, it's mine -- not yours.
It's that way with cable/satellite TV. If I paid for all the TV subscriptions I would need to get the same channels I would pay as much or more as the cable/satellite. Seems this "monthly payments" thing is out of hand. Went from houses to cars to appliances to phones and now just about everything is "monthly payments." My wife was on the focus group Disneyland used to determine if people would go for annual pass monthly payments Companies are making millions on "low monthly payments!"
__________________

Mike
2014 535i M Sport, Carbon Black/Black (mine)
2012 535i, Dark Graphite II/Oyster (wife's)
Joshua 24:15; Phil 4:13
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-lim/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-04-2020, 10:27 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,479
Mein Auto: 540i; 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGP View Post
To CUT DOWN PRODUCTIONS COSTS BY BUILDING EVERY CAR WITH A FULL SET OF FEATURES, THEN ALLOW consumers pay by subscription for ONLY THOSE FEATURES WHICH THEY REALLY WANT, AND TO MAKE PRE-OWNED PURCHASES MORE APPEALING SINCE YOU NO LONGER WILL HAVE TO SPEND MONTHS SEARCHING FOR A CPO WITH THE EXACT FEATURES YOU WANT is BRILLIANT:
Fixed that for you, Nancy.
__________________
Current BMW's:

2020 540i MSport
2017 330i Sport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-04-2020, 02:59 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,759
Mein Auto: See Sig
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
That linked article is full of "maybe's", "might be", etc. Nobody will ever be able to sell a car with a physical item, such as heated seats, being a "pay as you go" item. This will never happen. I think the article is a disservice and has little basis in actual fact.

That said, all this subscription nonsense has to end. How many "low monthly payments" are people (i.e., millennials?) willing to spend? Sell me an item, I pay for it, it's mine -- not yours.
A year or so ago I did a software update on my MacBook Air computer. Excel was no longer on the computer. I had bought and paid for it. In order to get it back I would have to enter the passcode, which I could not find, nor could I find any record of buying it.

I had just assumed it was downloaded on my computer. I never even gave a thought to the fact I actually did not have "possession" of it. They lost my business and I finally forced myself to deal with "Numbers", Apples answer to Excel.
__________________
2017 BMW 540 M-Sport Carbon Black/Ivory
2016 Lexus GX 460---Wife's car
Bikes...2017 Yamaha FJR1300---2020 Kawasaki 1000SX---2012 Ducati Panigale
Previous BMW: 2012 550 M-Sport

Last edited by jjsC6; 07-04-2020 at 03:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-05-2020, 05:01 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,479
Mein Auto: 540i; 330i
I disagree about the future of subscription services.

When I was a kid, we had a big old metal antenna on our roof, so we could watch 6 or 7 channels of broadcast TV. So did all our neighbors. The really tech savvy ones had a motorized antenna and got 9 or 10 channels. Now we all have 100-plus channels of cable TV or Dish TV, and both are subscription services.

When VHS and BetaMax were introduced, you could purchase a copy of a Hollywood movie for $19.99. Pretty soon, those sales were supplanted by shops which rented you that same movie, on VHS, Laserdisk or DVD. Those rentals were a subscription service. Now those subscription views come from your cable provider, Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+.

An awful lot of us lease our BMW's. That's a subscription service.

I don't own a plane, so when I travel on business or pleasure, I fly JetBlue or Delta. That seat is a subscription service. So is the Sixt or Budget car I rent when I land, or the Uber, Lyft or commuter rail I take to my hotel. If I've rented a car, the valet service at the hotel is a subscription service, as is the hotel room itself.

On the 4th of July I worked out at the health club in the morning, then went to the beach in the afternoon. Both the monthly club membership and the beach sticker on my car are subscription services.

Every BMW made today has a Sirius XM receiver built in, plus BMW Assist. You get a free trial period of both, then have the option to continue them if you find them useful. Yep. Subscription services.

My son just bought a low mileage 135. My daughter is looking for a short term lease assumption until she can move back to Manhattan. Both of them WISH BMW's had been built with MORE subscription services. It is next-to-impossible to find a used car or lease assumption with exactly the combination of options you want, so you either go without or spend more $$$ than you'd like, buying a used car or assuming a lease that has non-subscription options you don't want.

So let's not pretend that subscription services aren't prevalent in the market place today. If you want to skip cable and have a big old antenna, if you want to buy a DVD of every movie, if you want to purchase a private plane for travel, if you want to own a home in every place you travel to, if you want to build a home Gym, and buy a beach home instead of a beach sticker, more power to you. But please don't act like folks who see the value of subscription services are wrong.

PS: Regarding software. Why would anyone NOT want a subscription? Why would I want a fixed version of software, which was never updated when security vulnerabilities were discovered? My whole life is run from my laptop, and I absolutely want to have patches and updates pushed down to me when the Russian, NK and Chinese hackers come calling. I'm happy owning furniture, my home and my barbecue grill. But anything connected to the internet? Damn straight I want that constantly updated. I doubt very much you are running DOS or Windows ME, so why wouldn't you want all your other software (like MS Office) up to date?
__________________
Current BMW's:

2020 540i MSport
2017 330i Sport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic

Last edited by quackbury; 07-05-2020 at 05:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:02 AM
day03tls day03tls is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 234
Mein Auto: 2016 550 M sport
Subscriptions

Perfectly stated Quackbury. We are in a subscription economy driven by frequent change. I sell software subscriptions for a living. The use cases for the subscriptions are typically 1-3 years as the use case changes. Just like people, our needs change. Why cant I sign on with BMW for a 3 year term and drive any BMW. Of course my payment price will vary as I swap out into a different series, but I would have the option to change more frequently based on need. FLEXIBILITY!!! Everything is on loan and built to expire. I am not attached to my BMW, I simply enjoy the craftsmanship. The hardest part is to change people to think this way as these cars are truly becoming one big software CPU.

VOLVO is currently doing this. https://www.volvocars.com/us/care-by-volvo/

Last edited by day03tls; 07-05-2020 at 09:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-05-2020, 08:31 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,576
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
I usually sell my premium/useful car by 200,000 miles or 6 years. "Renting" is not my idea of a premium experience or value. If I lease a car, its to manage finances. I usually buy out the lease at the end or trade the car in when my needs change. I understand software updates and would pay a nominal fee for it but would rather see "free" updates.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:18 AM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Mein Auto: 2020 530xe
Quote:
Originally Posted by day03tls View Post
Perfectly stated Quackbury. We are in a subscription economy driven by frequent change. I sell software subscriptions for a living. The use cases for the subscriptions are typically 1-3 years as the use case changes. Just like people, our needs change. Why cant I sign on with BMW for a 3 year term and drive any BMW. Of course my payment price will vary as I swap out into a different series, but I would have the option to change more frequently based on need. FLEXIBILITY!!! Everything is on loan and built to expire. I am not attached to my BMW, I simply enjoy the craftsmanship. The hardest part is to change people to think this way as these cars are truly becoming one big software CPU.
Mercedes offers this option. You can rent the car with insurance included and do unlimited swaps or the like. Not something I am remotely interested in.

I am not a fan of never ending payment treadmills. They make a ton of sense for businesses, but less so for us consumers. It sounds good on the surface that you can “just swap around” and drive a nice car fir the weekend then back to a daily oriented model for the week and all that mess. You can also update all the time. But good luck hoping off the treadmill. You’ve just pissed the money away.

But I see subscriptions as leaches and keep them to a disciplined low.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-05-2020, 01:42 PM
markl53's Avatar
markl53 markl53 is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,695
Mein Auto: 2018 540i
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
I disagree about the future of subscription services....
A one enablement or activation is one thing, continuing to pay for a "physical" option, like an extreme case, heated seats, is another. My car has heated seats, I can turn them on whenever I want because I paid a price for them. I don't think you would agree that for the ability to continue using the heated seats, you or anyone else, is willing to pay "xxx" per month. Same with A/C. Are you saying you would support an option to pay for HVAC "services" in a car on an ongoing monthly basis? Software and hardware are two different things. If a car is built with "every" item initially, and you pay an activation fee, which is basically equivalent to having bought the item to begin with, then I can see that possibly.

Of course I also have various subscription services. The one "pro" is continuous upgrades, as you mention. The other aspects are strong down-sides. Like continuous price increases for one. Cable TV is reaching absurd pricing for example. Here's a good example, which I think is fair. I use Quicken to track expenses, basically my virtual checkbook. They have gone to a subscription service, but it is only $50 per year, and I get the latest upgrades. However, I am a big user of Photoshop, although not so much at the moment. I still use the last non-subscription CS4 version that I bought outright. Why do I want to pay $30 a month, or whatever it is, when I might use it sporadically after a vacation, or other event, where I need to edit a batch of pictures? There are pros and cons to everything. But again, paying continuously for a physical device in a car, to me, is a faulty proposition.
__________________
BMW-CCA
Bimmerfest Supporting Member



Current: 2018 540i MSport | Med Blue/Cognac| MSport Brakes | Multi-Contour | HK | ZLP
Prior: 2014 535i Individual | Azurite Black/Amaro Brown Merino | Premium | Cold | PDC | Rear Camera
Prior: 2011 535i AT | Black Sapphire/Cinnamon | Premium | Heated Sts | Nav | Sirius | Anthracite Hdr & Trim
Prior: 2008 335i 6MT Sedan | Black Sapphire/Terra Leather | Premium | Cold | CA
Prior: 2005 330i 6MT | Black Sapphire/Sand Leather
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-05-2020, 06:23 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Mein Auto: 2020 530xe
I can't help but wonder if this path is one where BMW will try to maximize revenue from the used market.

Where features that were purchased on the car might need to be repurchased by used customers.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-05-2020, 06:52 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Floriduh
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 10,287
Mein Auto: 2014 535i + 2018 X3 30i
My E46 had all the sensors and code for the burglar alarm installed at the factory. But, to make it work I had to pay for the siren (1000+ 0% mark-up) and pay the dealer to turn on that section of code.

Options are cheap. They're the most profitable part of the car. With subscription options, BMW could load every BMW up with options. That'd make car shopping off the lot easier. They could sell the same car to some high roller like the monkeyazzduck, or to some cheapskate. When the car's turned back in after the lease (55% of BMW's are leased), they have the same flexibility when the car's on the dealer's used car lot.

Back before turbocharging, BMW was making six-cylinder engine blocks out of dual-alloy magnesium and aluminum. The process was complex. So, a 323i and a 328i both had 2.8 liter engines. But the 323i was a few $k cheaper, and detuned (different software, and maybe different cylinder heads with smaller valve diameters). The cheapskates got the 323i. But, the high rollers paid extra for a car that had more performance, but didn't cost one extra penny to build.

This is just a new twist on the same old game car makers have been doing since they started making cars. They're going to do everything they can to get every penny from you that you are willing to pay.

Besides, it can only work on the electronics options. You can't subscribe to Merino leather or plum brown Individual wood.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:50 PM
540 M-Sport's Avatar
540 M-Sport 540 M-Sport is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,252
Mein Auto: M550i, 540M-Sport, Scud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
My E46 had all the sensors and code for the burglar alarm installed at the factory. But, to make it work I had to pay for the siren (1000+ 0% mark-up) and pay the dealer to turn on that section of code.

Options are cheap. They're the most profitable part of the car. With subscription options, BMW could load every BMW up with options. That'd make car shopping off the lot easier. They could sell the same car to some high roller like the monkeyazzduck, or to some cheapskate. When the car's turned back in after the lease (55% of BMW's are leased), they have the same flexibility when the car's on the dealer's used car lot.

Back before turbocharging, BMW was making six-cylinder engine blocks out of dual-alloy magnesium and aluminum. The process was complex. So, a 323i and a 328i both had 2.8 liter engines. But the 323i was a few $k cheaper, and detuned (different software, and maybe different cylinder heads with smaller valve diameters). The cheapskates got the 323i. But, the high rollers paid extra for a car that had more performance, but didn't cost one extra penny to build.

This is just a new twist on the same old game car makers have been doing since they started making cars. They're going to do everything they can to get every penny from you that you are willing to pay.

Besides, it can only work on the electronics options. You can't subscribe to Merino leather or plum brown Individual wood.
Someone who understands what BMW is doing
__________________
540 M-Sport package (Canadian market), factory Bluetooth phone integration, factory M-Audio 10" dual voice coil subs, Homelink, Eibach front and rear anti-roll bars, M5 rear traction rods, H&R 15mm wheel spacers, ST X (KW) coilovers, Strong Strut front upper stress bar, BMP strut tower reinforcement kit, Stop Tech ss brake lines, Akebono Euro Ceramic brake pads, Zimmerman rotors, Dinan Stage 1 software, USA Spec Ipod/Iphone integration.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-06-2020, 03:31 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,576
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
It's still perceived value that brings in $$$, and having to pay monthly for extras doesn't fit that theme. Change must have some advantage for both consumer and manufacturer to be sustainable. Charging extra to "update" software, as if that automatically provides improvement, is a fantasy many users of Linux have discovered is not worth it. Its better to KISS, which may have escaped many IT hotshots of late.

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 07-06-2020 at 03:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-06-2020, 10:05 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New England
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 712
Mein Auto: 40e
User "GCP" gives us a clinic in how to write a thread title. Well done. We all read the thread, LOL.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-06-2020, 01:21 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,479
Mein Auto: 540i; 330i
As I read the horrified responses, I'm struck with this: Folks think the full cost of the option will be added to the sticker, and then they will pay AGAIN to use the option. I don't see this happening at all. Consider the following example:

You can buy (not rent) a really good inkjet printer for under $100. I bet half of that is for transportation to your nearest Staples or Office Depot, plus the stores' commission for putting it on the shelf and selling it to you. The real cost (and profit) comes in the ink: $80 for a set of ink cartridges, which probably cost $10 to manufacture. I can easily envision HP or Epsom giving you a FREE printer, and increasing the cost of ink to $90.

When you bought a prior BMW with options, you paid 100% of the cost up front, and then got to use the option "for free" for the rest of the time you owned the vehicle. In effect, your ongoing use wasn't really "free" you were just amortizing the up-front cost over the life of the vehicle. My E39 540 had the very first Sirius receiver installed by my dealer, and I paid a pretty penny for it. Now: The Sirius chip is included in every BMW for free, and you only pay if you want to use it. I see the exact same thing happening with heated seats: The heating elements and switch will be included in the car for free, and you only pay if you use them. Many here seem to be worried about double-dipping, but I don't see that happening.

Imagine you live in Bubbaville with Putzer and are car shopping. That shiny Silverado at the Chevy dealership has heated seats installed in it as an option, with a $500 price tag. Those seats are yours to use, "for free" for as long as you own the Chebby. Your inclination is to say "No thanks, I'll pass; I don't need no stinkin' heated seats when I drive to Publix, windows down, blasting my Lynyrd Skynyrd and flying my Stars and Bars from the antenna!" But next door, the Ford dealer offers you an F150 with subscription service heated seats included in the build for free. If you get transferred from Fort Benning to Fort Leonard Wood in MO, or Fort Richardson in AK, all you have to do is log onto the app and activate your subscription heated seats. Doesn't that make all the sense in the world?

Ford didn't double dip you, they just changed the way you pay for the warm and toasty heinie. And I bet Ford even SAVED money in its logistics train by building the heinie-toasting elements into every single seat in the production line. The same way the BMW and Audi save money by building the capability for rear fog lights into every car, and just not activating those in markets or for consumers who don't use them.

It's not some nefarious attempt to wring more money from you. It's just good business.
__________________
Current BMW's:

2020 540i MSport
2017 330i Sport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic

Last edited by quackbury; 07-06-2020 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-06-2020, 01:36 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,479
Mein Auto: 540i; 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
Of course I also have various subscription services. The one "pro" is continuous upgrades, as you mention. The other aspects are strong down-sides. Like continuous price increases for one. Cable TV is reaching absurd pricing for example.
And there are plenty of options for "cutting the cord", including going old school with a 30 foot metal antenna.

Imagine you were building a new home back in 1990. Your contractor told you "I can build in a Media Rack which will include a high quality VHS player, for the modest cost of $5,000 With that VHS player you get a service that will send you 10 free VHS movies for free each month, for as long as you own the house." This is exactly the same as paying an up front cost to have heated seats in your BMW.

"But wait", you say. "I'm not sure I really need to watch 10 VHS movies every month. Rather than p*ssing away $5,000 on this contraption, why don't I hold onto the cash and rent movies "on demand" from Nexflix, Dish or xfinity? That's exactly the same as subscription service for heated seats.

Pay upfront? Or pay as you go? Both are valid options. It's not evil or slimy to have the choice.
__________________
Current BMW's:

2020 540i MSport
2017 330i Sport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-06-2020, 01:38 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 397
Mein Auto: 2020 530xe
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
As I read the horrified responses, I'm struck with this: Folks think the full cost of the option will be added to the sticker, and then they will pay AGAIN to use the option. I don't see this happening at all. Consider the following example:

You can buy (not rent) a really good inkjet printer for under $100. I bet half of that is for transportation to your nearest Staples or Office Depot, plus the stores' commission for putting it on the shelf and selling it to you. The real cost (and profit) comes in the ink: $80 for a set of ink cartridges, which probably cost $10 to manufacture. I can easily envision HP or Epsom giving you a FREE printer, and increasing the cost of ink to $90.

When you bought a prior BMW with options, you paid 100% of the cost up front, and then got to use the option "for free" for the rest of the time you owned the vehicle. In effect, your ongoing use wasn't really "free" you were just amortizing the up-front cost over the life of the vehicle. My E39 540 had the very first Sirius receiver installed by my dealer, and I paid a pretty penny for it. Now: The Sirius chip is included in every BMW for free, and you only pay if you want to use it. I see the exact same thing happening with heated seats: The heating elements and switch will be included in the car for free, and you only pay if you use them. Many here seem to be worried about double-dipping, but I don't see that happening.

Imagine you live in Bubbaville with Putzer and are car shopping. That shiny Silverado at the Chevy dealership has heated seats installed in it as an option, with a $500 price tag. Those seats are yours to use, "for free" for as long as you own the Chebby. Your inclination is to say "No thanks, I'll pass; I don't need no stinkin' heated seats when I drive to Publix, windows down, blasting my Lynyrd Skynyrd and flying my Stars and Bars from the antenna!" But next door, the Ford dealer offers you an F150 with subscription service heated seats included in the build for free. If you get transferred from Fort Benning to Fort Leonard Wood in MO, or Fort Richardson in AK, all you have to do is log onto the app and activate your subscription heated seats. Doesn't that make all the sense in the world?
People fundamentally feel cheated when they're being charged extra for items that are already included in the product. If heated seats or power windows or brakes are included in the car physically then people expect that the cost of acquiring the car includes the cost of those items. Software is different. People expect that software improvements and changes can be accompanied by cost as they expect that since something "new" is being added they should pay to acquire that new thing.

The luxury car space is getting squeezed like crazy and I don't see BMW resorting to a "nickel and dime you" image would be helpful to anyone but their competitors. It is the same reason they dropped the CarPlay subscription. All Mercedes would need to do is skip the subscription model and they'll absorb BMW defectors and younger buyers will skip them entirely and hop into a highly optioned Toyota/Lexus or Tesla and forget BMW even existed.

As I said earlier, this makes the most sense when dealing with customers coming across the used lot. The only money BMW makes from the used lot directly is the charges they push onto dealers to "certify" a car that meets their CPO standards. Otherwise, there is zero revenue bumps for them on a used car (unless they can convince the used buyer to pony up for ConnectedDrive). This would give them some room to play around with here.

Let's look a bit at the MY2017-2020 G30 where BMW sold, in the US, LED Headlights and Adaptive Full LED Headlights. Feature wise, the only difference between these two headlights is one supports "automatic high beams" and the other doesn't. Physically these lights have a lot of differences, but buyers would be less attuned to non-cosmetic differences than they feature difference. BMW could sell the same headlight in both cases and not annoy the first buyer with subscriptions or other unsavory popups. But they could offer such an option to the used buyer once they activate ConnectedDrive for the car. Rinse and repeat every time the used car changes hands. It could allow BMW revenue streams down the line with a customer demographic who traditionally doesn't interact with the BMW well (meaning they buy used from a non-BMW dealer and service at a non-BMW dealer).

For top line customers (those leasing new or buying new) they have too much competitive pressure to keep them in line. You are limited in how much you can turn software updates into revenue streams right now due to Tesla offering updates with new features for free. If BMW goes buck wild then we'll see them losing out heavily to Mercedes and Tesla.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-06-2020, 02:02 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NW Floriduh
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 10,287
Mein Auto: 2014 535i + 2018 X3 30i
If this ever comes to pass, there will likely also be a "buy" option, a one-time fee for the option to be activated for the life of the car.

How does the monkeyazzduck know I had a Chebby? I called it "Autoputzer, Jr." because "he" was just like Autoputzer, Sr., big, white, and cheap.

... also unstable, primitive, high center of mass, and high emissions, just like Autoputzer, Sr.

I also prefer Publix over Winn-Dixie. Publix has generic Pop Tarts without frosting on them. There's a wealthy area at the county line. The Publix there has more Range Rover-driving hotties shopping there. So, that's where I shop.

I paid about $17.5k for Autoputzer, Jr (with my $3.2k in GM MasterCard rebates), drove it six years and 72k miles, and sold it for $8.5k. I only replaced the OE tires right before I sold it. I'd got a set six months earlier on sale, and added half the price of the tires to the KBB price of the truck. I had it sold in one day.

A co-worker was, and still is, driving a then-20 year old Nissan pick-up truck with no AC. I stopped by his office to see if he wanted my truck. He didn't, but the woman in the next office heard us talking and said "Hey, whoever you are, come over here and tell me about that truck you're selling."

Ever heard of Bubbaville foreplay? "Get in the truck, bitch."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	autoputzer jr.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	133.6 KB
ID:	899419  
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > G30 (2017 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.