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  #26  
Old 07-06-2020, 12:09 AM
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Iím not concerned so much with lubricity as I am with 1) abrasive clutch material contamination 2) degradation of the top secret additive pack 3) the large number of x drive issues, transfer case failures, and stripped actuators resulting from extended OCI on the unit, because of circulating liquid abrasion.

The BMW fluid is a fraction of a cent per mile at 20k mile OCI; Iíve switched to S-Tec for half the price.

BMW says the fluid is lifetime fill; GM (who makes the 6 speeds) has an internal recommendation of 30k mile changes to prevent warranty claims.

Hopefully Iíll remember the to get a fluid analysis on the 20k mile S tec the next time I do it, Iím interested.


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So those two things, abrasive material and additives really cannot be determined without analysis.
1. The Blackstone might have data on xDrive fluid analysis where you can compare wear. But without comparison you really donít know whether your wear is ok or not. It is like iron in VW diesels, they always shed iron much more than other diesels, and I saw them with 700-900k km in Europe still driving as taxis.
2. BMW fluid is probably Ester/PAO based, hence high price. Additives are probably similar to all other fluids. However, good base stock will keep viscosity for long haul and prevent excessive oxidation. You could next time take used sample from TC, then virgin sample from leftovers of new bottle and compare TBN and TAN. That will give you definite answer how much life is left in fluid. Other thing is you could do all that and still stay on same schedule bcs. OCD, same like me.
Also, Redline offers TC fluid now for xDrive.

As for GM, if there is internal memo, I agree.


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  #27  
Old 07-06-2020, 02:52 AM
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This is where the coolant level is. It's not all the way Empty, seems more on the low side. Would it be harmful to drive? There's no low coolant warning on the dash. I did order some coolant.
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:31 AM
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Coolant replacment

You should be fine but itís always going to be better to top it up and bleed the system first. Air pockets or low coolant can cause inconsistent cooling. Lots of people have driven with a lower level than that. Without bleeding it though it may be a bit lower than what you can see. You need to fix your leak. Remember that if you ever get a overheating warning you must immediately pull over and stop the engine. Donít be the people that try to go the ďcouple miles left to get home.Ē It doesnít always make it without damage.


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  #29  
Old 07-06-2020, 05:14 AM
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Same with LOW OIL PRESSURE ALARM.
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by moosaud1998 View Post
This is where the coolant level is. It's not all the way Empty, seems more on the low side. Would it be harmful to drive? There's no low coolant warning on the dash. I did order some coolant.

Is that just happened or there is a leak? If this is first time you checking add distilled water or coolant and see what happens. If it drops again, then you need to find leak asap.
I always have coolant to the max.


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  #31  
Old 07-06-2020, 08:28 AM
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Is that just happened or there is a leak? If this is first time you checking add distilled water or coolant and see what happens. If it drops again, then you need to find leak asap.
I always have coolant to the max.


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Nah, it happened when I did the coolant flange. I opened the coolant cap while I was doing the coolant flange and saw it drop. So, it's not leaking. I kinda wanted to pull the car out of the garage since there's coolant collected in the splash pan and it's dripping on my garage floor. I guess cardboard will do until the coolant does not arrive
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  #32  
Old 07-06-2020, 11:38 AM
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Coolant replacment

I never fill coolant to the max on a bmw, thatís a great way to stress and blow a hose or expansion tank. At cold, I get the upper bubble on the float stick just above the top of the top of the tankís filler neck. JMO

If you did coolant work, you likely just bled more air out of the system while driving it. Take it outside, spray down under the hood with a hose, and say goodbye to white coolant crust.

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  #33  
Old 07-06-2020, 03:09 PM
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Can keeping the coolant at the full mark create a higher volume and cause more leakage and failures?
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  #34  
Old 07-07-2020, 04:13 AM
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Depends on the relief pressure of the cap. I tossed my stock cap in the trash and installed an 18 psi cap, stock one was up around 30.

Anecdote: Iíve historically kept mine between the bubbles. Let a friend from work drive it for a year (leased it to him) and the ET was cracked when I got it back. Heíd recently added and overfilled the tank, which hairline cracked. I couldnít find the crack until I pressurized it to 18psi, the exact pressure of the cap. That hairline was able to get the car the 15 miles back to my house. With the 30lb cap, the tank likely would have exploded catastrophically as they often do with age.

Iíve ran the car 25 hours straight at 75 mph through WVa mountains and down into the FL keys in July, shutting off only for fuel, and never a hint of cooling system problems (other than the above tank issue). YMMV.


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  #35  
Old 07-07-2020, 04:18 PM
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Did you ever replace the flange? I did mine today: what I did was hacksaw the flange off the hose at the end of the hose, and then use a different hack saw inserted into the hose to cut through the neck towards the hose, stopping before cutting all the way through, then using a slotted screw driver to pop the neck. It then collapsed, pulled out, and the metal sleeve was able to be slid off. About an hour job with distractions and a triple bleed. Bolts received a dab of Ford nickel antiseize (as is my SOP) and torqued to 84 in lbs.

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  #36  
Old 07-07-2020, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by moosaud1998 View Post
I ordered a coolant flange, it came in today. I went to go take the old one out, but it won't come out of the hose. Instead, coolant spills everywhere out of the hose (reservoir on low no low coolant light) and spills all on my garage floor . Is there a way to remove the old flange?
If youíre talking about replacing the plastic water hose flange with a new aluminum one, I would highly recommend doing it. On my cars, I couldnít even get the old plastic flange out of the engine without it disintegrating and leaving half in the block. One of them only had 70k miles. BMW and their stupid ridiculous plastic parts. Use a pair of adjustable pliers (aka water hose pliers or crescent wrench) and gently crush the hose around the plastic. Then pull the pieces out of the hose.
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Old 07-07-2020, 05:01 PM
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Did you ever replace the flange? I did mine today: what I did was hacksaw the flange off the hose at the end of the hose, and then use a different hack saw inserted into the hose to cut through the neck towards the hose, stopping before cutting all the way through, then using a slotted screw driver to pop the neck. It then collapsed, pulled out, and the metal sleeve was able to be slid off. About an hour job with distractions and a triple bleed. Bolts received a dab of Ford nickel antiseize (as is my SOP) and torqued to 84 in lbs.

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Nope, I tried it and got stuck trying to figure out how to remove the hose clamp. Might try your way. I've got a hacksaw at home, don't want to cut my had or something while cutting the flange off the front end of the hose. Hmm, since I am already low on coolant, might as well try your way tomorrow. Where did you place the hose to cut the front of the flange? Did you get coolant on the belt?
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  #38  
Old 07-07-2020, 05:11 PM
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If youíre talking about replacing the plastic water hose flange with a new aluminum one, I would highly recommend doing it. On my cars, I couldnít even get the old plastic flange out of the engine without it disintegrating and leaving half in the block. One of them only had 70k miles. BMW and their stupid ridiculous plastic parts. Use a pair of adjustable pliers (aka water hose pliers or crescent wrench) and gently crush the hose around the plastic. Then pull the pieces out of the hose.
I might try this way too. " Use a pair of adjustable pliers (aka water hose pliers or crescent wrench) and gently crush the hose around the plastic. Then pull the pieces out of the hose". Is this with the front end of the flange out of the block?
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  #39  
Old 07-07-2020, 05:39 PM
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Nope, I tried it and got stuck trying to figure out how to remove the hose clamp. Might try your way. I've got a hacksaw at home, don't want to cut my had or something while cutting the flange off the front end of the hose. Hmm, since I am already low on coolant, might as well try your way tomorrow. Where did you place the hose to cut the front of the flange? Did you get coolant on the belt?

I placed the hose and flange on top of the engine beauty cover, just be careful to not cut into the cover. If the flange is solid you wonít be able to shatter it with channel locks. It is barbed inside of the metal band clamp and thatís why you canít pull it out.

I forgot to mention, once done cutting, I lowered the hose to use coolant flow to remove to remove any plastic burrs in the hose. I certainly got coolant on the belt; once done I hosed off the entire area. Coolant is of corse water soluble and washes away easily. You may want to cover your alternator. Donít worry about loosing coolant or getting wet.

Youíll want to run the coolant bleed at least once. I had to run mine 3 times to get the coolant level to level off, adding coolant each time, more times than when I replaced the ET and every hose in the damn car!

Dont forget to torque the bolts right. I also highly recommend use of Ford nickel antiseize on every fastener on the car.


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The "need to have my head examined " E21 build thread

2008 BMW E83 1981 BMW 320i
2016 Chevy Silverado 2011 VW Jetta
1984 GMC S-15 1986 Oldsmobile 442
Another half dozen '60s tractors

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Old 07-07-2020, 06:03 PM
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I placed the hose and flange on top of the engine beauty cover, just be careful to not cut into the cover. If the flange is solid you wonít be able to shatter it with channel locks. It is barbed inside of the metal band clamp and thatís why you canít pull it out.

I forgot to mention, once done cutting, I lowered the hose to use coolant flow to remove to remove any plastic burrs in the hose. I certainly got coolant on the belt; once done I hosed off the entire area. Coolant is of corse water soluble and washes away easily. You may want to cover your alternator. Donít worry about loosing coolant or getting wet.

Youíll want to run the coolant bleed at least once. I had to run mine 3 times to get the coolant level to level off, adding coolant each time, more times than when I replaced the ET and every hose in the damn car!

Dont forget to torque the bolts right. I also highly recommend use of Ford nickel antiseize on every fastener on the car.


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Yeah, my flange is still rock hard. I was kind of thinking about not replacing it until it goes bad, but that seems like a bad idea since I already brought the flange and coolant. How did you fit the hacksaw inside of the pipe? Or did you use a hand held blade?
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:14 PM
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Coolant replacment

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Originally Posted by moosaud1998 View Post
Yeah, my flange is still rock hard. I was kind of thinking about not replacing it until it goes bad, but that seems like a bad idea since I already brought the flange and coolant. How did you fit the hacksaw inside of the pipe? Or did you use a hand held blade?

I have several hack saws; the one I used to get inside the hose was a smaller one that had the blade extending out the end. I did it that way to avoid potentially damaging the hose.

Iíd do it now. If you wait for the flange to fail, it could be a potential engine heat seize.

Where are you located, Moose?


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The "need to have my head examined " E21 build thread

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1984 GMC S-15 1986 Oldsmobile 442
Another half dozen '60s tractors
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2020, 06:55 PM
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I have several hack saws; the one I used to get inside the hose was a smaller one that had the blade extending out the end. I did it that way to avoid potentially damaging the hose.

Iíd do it now. If you wait for the flange to fail, it could be a potential engine heat seize.

Where are you located, Moose?


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"I have several hack saws" I have one that is similar to the link below. I'm located in Chicago, IL.


https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-1...k-Saw/50208805

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  #43  
Old 07-07-2020, 07:37 PM
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That wonít allow you to cut inside the hose.

Also, if you click ďquoteĒ you donít have to copy/paste other posts.


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Another half dozen '60s tractors
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  #44  
Old 07-07-2020, 07:47 PM
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Maybe a box cutter?
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by moosaud1998 View Post
Yeah, my flange is still rock hard. I was kind of thinking about not replacing it until it goes bad, but that seems like a bad idea since I already brought the flange and coolant. How did you fit the hacksaw inside of the pipe? Or did you use a hand held blade?
Sorry, I guess I should have given more detail. Cut the actual flange portion from the front of the hose. I think mine was in poor enough shape that I was able to use dikes and cut it off. You could use the hacksaw there if you preferred. That leaves the barbed section inside the hose. If you squeeze on the metal band, it should crack up the plastic.
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:40 PM
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Or I can just hit the metal band with a hammer facing the hose down after I cut the "Mickey mouse ears".

Last edited by moosaud1998; 07-07-2020 at 09:42 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-08-2020, 09:12 AM
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Thanks, guys! I replaced the coolant flange today using both of your guys advice. Much appreciated
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  #48  
Old 07-08-2020, 12:02 PM
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So those two things, abrasive material and additives really cannot be determined without analysis.
1. The Blackstone might have data on xDrive fluid analysis where you can compare wear. But without comparison you really donít know whether your wear is ok or not. It is like iron in VW diesels, they always shed iron much more than other diesels, and I saw them with 700-900k km in Europe still driving as taxis.
2. BMW fluid is probably Ester/PAO based, hence high price. Additives are probably similar to all other fluids. However, good base stock will keep viscosity for long haul and prevent excessive oxidation. You could next time take used sample from TC, then virgin sample from leftovers of new bottle and compare TBN and TAN. That will give you definite answer how much life is left in fluid. Other thing is you could do all that and still stay on same schedule bcs. OCD, same like me.
Also, Redline offers TC fluid now for xDrive.

As for GM, if there is internal memo, I agree.


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As a practical situation, "Lifetime" fluid fill service time equals "When the transmission fails".
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  #49  
Old 07-08-2020, 01:42 PM
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As a practical situation, "Lifetime" fluid fill service time equals "When the transmission fails".

I think lifetime in BMW terms means 100k or until CPO expires.
ZF openly recommends 60-75k strictly refill not flush and pan/filter replacement. I am not aware any vehicle manufacturer using ZF8 that fallows that except FCA for RAM trucks in case they are involved in heavy duty operations.


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Old 07-08-2020, 04:20 PM
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Coolant replacment

I actually just did fluid and filter on mine today. Fluid had 20k, filter 45k. Yes it was early, even for me, but I got tired of seeing the fluid in my garage and towing the boat a few thousand miles over the next few weeks, I wanted to have a look at what was in there and get new fluid in. Fluid came it red, and the magnet was near spotless. Just what I like to see. I like to make repairs before things fail rather than after, itís cheaper that way. Now Iím good to 190k on the fluid. My definition of lifetime, is the component (engine, trans, et. Al.) lasting MY lifetime.

Iíll be sending in my UOA on the engine oil as soon as the test kit arrives from black stone and Iíll be happy to post results for N52x owners.

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The "need to have my head examined " E21 build thread

2008 BMW E83 1981 BMW 320i
2016 Chevy Silverado 2011 VW Jetta
1984 GMC S-15 1986 Oldsmobile 442
Another half dozen '60s tractors

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