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  #76  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:22 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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GoNz0 - sharing some of my info that might be of use to you.

Are you monitoring these parameters using a Carly or some other method?

DPF backpressure units on my Carly app are in hpa (hectopascal) . . . mine hovers around 10 hpa - drops a little while idling and jumps a bit under load, proportional to load/acceleration.

You indicate 6mb . . . 6 millibars? If yes, then it is equal to 6 hpa . . . lower than what I am reading.

Although I don't think I have hit 4K rpm with Carly running, even under normal hard acceleration (like on the freeway on-ramp, etc), I don't think I have ever seen 80 hpa. I will keep an eye on it to confirm.

My ash mass is just under 54 grams.

My vehicle - E70/35d, 2011MY, June 2010 build, ~134,000 miles.

Here are my regen intervals I posted to a different thread . . . from what I have read - 300-mile interval for active regen (DPF temp hits 620C) and in between several passive ones (~350C). Your 120-mile interval seems a bit too frequent. My drive pattern is about 50/50 city/hwy.

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Originally Posted by GoNz0 View Post
I gave in and reset the DPF values today, the back pressure is very low (6mb idle, 80 at 4k) and even after a 200 mile round trip where it did a regen part way it tried to do another yesterday after 120 miles, ash mass is calculated at 40g so plenty of life left in it. I hope this calms the constant regens.
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  #77  
Old 05-20-2018, 01:49 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
GoNz0 - sharing some of my info that might be of use to you.

Are you monitoring these parameters using a Carly or some other method?

DPF backpressure units on my Carly app are in hpa (hectopascal) . . . mine hovers around 10 hpa - drops a little while idling and jumps a bit under load, proportional to load/acceleration.

You indicate 6mb . . . 6 millibars? If yes, then it is equal to 6 hpa . . . lower than what I am reading.

Although I don't think I have hit 4K rpm with Carly running, even under normal hard acceleration (like on the freeway on-ramp, etc), I don't think I have ever seen 80 hpa. I will keep an eye on it to confirm.

My ash mass is just under 54 grams.

My vehicle - E70/35d, 2011MY, June 2010 build, ~134,000 miles.

Here are my regen intervals I posted to a different thread . . . from what I have read - 300-mile interval for active regen (DPF temp hits 620C) and in between several passive ones (~350C). Your 120-mile interval seems a bit too frequent. My drive pattern is about 50/50 city/hwy.
I use ISTA/D to check the cars stats when needed, I never went for Carly as it does seems a bit half put together at times with unknown codes etc.

Basically I got the car last November with a full service history meaning it was main dealer half arsed repairs but still better than risking one tampered with by god knows who.
It came with knackered stats and gearbox cooler that had no doubt caused poor regens but fortunately the car did some UK-Europe trips so it would have had passive regens.

Since owning I have done the glow plugs and controller as they were all shot, had both turbo's refurbed at a local company with a national reputation, replaced both stats and after getting through 7 gearbox oil coolers realising the thermostats they now use are cheap chinese crap that fail the 1st time they open (BMW replaced 3 and refunded me as they also realise the parts won't work but also don't give a toss about pointing this out to Behr) so I fitted an inline stat just after to fix the issue (it works for Audi in the R8 so it's good enough for my car )
Injector readings all check out near perfect, full service done.

So in theory the car is in good running condition.

I do not do many miles, at the moment it is a Sunday car as I have a Mini to use for the short trips, all it has really done it test drives on the motorway and a few trips to fetch the wife from work so a mixed bag.

It keeps trying to regen and takes the piss with the frequency, we finally had the chance to go to the coast in it earlier this month so a 90 mile trip should have done it the world of good, it did a regen as we got to the destination but didn't do another on the way back so I did expect it was going to behave. Soon after it got to temp the next time I used it the bloody thing started to regen again but I Was doing a 6 mile trip in heavy friday night work traffic, this threw a hidden 4667 regenerations too frequent code, it shouldn't be trying to regen after a 90 open road run followed by 20 or so miles around town, ash mass is 40g and when I checked with the DPF automated test idle was 6mb out of a permissible 65 at idle, it then holds revs at 2k and that was about 35 out of a max 120? (I think) and the next test you floor the throttle to cut off revs, 4k in my 535d and that was 80 out of 240.

As you can see it is in good condition against the fail levels ISTA shows hence me telling it I now have a new DPF to see if that forces it to behave.

If I had a faulty pressure sensor it should have thrown the max value exceeded warning of 1000mb as that triggers a faulty sensor. The 535d only has one sensor, it doesn't read pre and post DPF values like other models.

It was also noted when I had the turbos off that theDPF was very clean before it hit the filter so I doubt it is clogging fast due to excessive soot, the car also is stock, no remap, even the EGR valve area is very clean, just a dusting of soot unlike most that are gummed up with oil and soot.

Swirl flaps removed when I got the car and they were all functional and reasonably clean.

Worse idle reading I have seen is still under 20mb idle, forcing a regen and doing a motorway drive at 70mph lats under 10 minutes and yields a post regen sub 10mb each time.

Anyway, I have a holiday next week, the car gets it's 1st real outing, a 4am drive down south of 300 miles so it will be interesting to see the regen status and if resetting the DPF to new status puts the regens back in check with this so called lifetime DFT fitted to the LCI.

Last edited by GoNz0; 05-20-2018 at 01:51 AM.
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  #78  
Old 11-17-2018, 02:27 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Hello everyone,
I am back after quite some time, but I have been observing the behavior of my car all those months.
Recently I had an opportunity to buy a remanufactured original intake with new reinforced swirl flaps for reasonable price. I had my swirl flaps removed approx. two and half years ago. Before that I had problem with my thermostats, clogged DPF and subsequent cleaning gone wrong, then new DPF, est.. The frequency of DPF regenerations was growing ever since, even with new oem DPF installed.
Long story short, with swirl flaps back in, my tragic 80km between regens in city (and higher consumption) had jumped straight back to 200km! I now have 235000km on odometer and think my injectors and turbos could not be in their best shape, so it might be even better after I get these checked.

I realized Swirl flaps are vital for right function of our M57 or any other engines with them. Especially cold and city driving. Not som much on highway. The combustion is completly wrong, producing much soot, in low rpms, when there are no flaps closing half of the intake tract.
I was so influenced by all these advices to remove swirl flaps because of the danger of them breaking off...
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  #79  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:07 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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This backs up my theory on this as my car runs 100% apart from the regen kicking in every 75-100 miles since removing the swirl flaps, I was so quick to jump on the deflap bandwagon as I have nearly bought a new DPF to figure this out.

Where did you buy the remanufactured intake from as I would like to see what these revised flaps are like?

Thanks for replying with the above it is a huge help.
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  #80  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:54 AM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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This:
https://pmgtechnik.com/en
Or you can find them offering the intake mainfolds on eBay, they have several ads, e.g.:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANSAUGBR%C3...53.m1438.l2649
In reality the parts are made in Poland. They use original mainfolds they get back from customers, clean them and put new flaps in. There have been a few complaints about the flaps not being tight enough and oil seeping through their bearings (2 of 6 flaps for example), but they respond, and exchange when something is wrong.
I was thinking about asking them to sell me the flaps alone, but realised the guys who removed my flaps, removed the vacuum lines and control rod as well. So I bought the complete mainfold.
Mine so far so good. I will keep eye on it.

Last edited by mitocross; 11-18-2018 at 03:58 AM.
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  #81  
Old 11-18-2018, 12:41 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Hi Mitocross - So glad you have had some success! what a journey.

When you monitor the soot mass parameter now - does it rise quickly at all after regen - and/or does it settle around a gm number for a good distance before going into regen again?

Just wanted to add another reference point though... I had my swirl flaps removed/capped a year ago as they were starting to disintegrate. This was around the same time that I had my DPF removed and cleaned.

Since that time we are getting about 200km between regens (mostly city driving still) and all is running fine - so at least for me, the capped swirl flaps are not causing an immediate issue.

If I ever have the issue again I'll be sure to try one of these reconditioned intakes with new swirl flaps though

Pete
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  #82  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:15 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Hi Pete,
thank you.
I should have been more clever to figure this out earlier, my then new DPF would be thankful.
From my recent observation, the swirl flaps are an absolute must have for city driving. Not so much for somebody who does long highway driving - in open position they might act as a sort of small blockage to the airflow.
Now after a good regen, the soot rises more evenly. I even get city drives when soot does not rise past 10g for 20km. After a shorter or slower (speed) regen it goes rather quickly to 20g, but that seems understandable. It still settles for a while around 20g, then for a longer period around 30g, and then again for a shorter time around 40g. Triggering a regen at 50g.
Have you been playing with Carly? I am looking for advice if there is a parameter that might show something about the state of the injectors...
Cheers
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  #83  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:35 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Remember that E70 diesels have two intake runners, the open swirl ports and the tangiental ports that have the swirl flaps.
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  #84  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:41 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Yes, you are right, that is how they make the swirl effect inside the cylinder - by blocking one intake. Now I know too this is very important for good combustion in low rpms. I have the Euro version which has vacuum controlled swirl flaps. Everything looks the same as on the diagram apart from the motor.

Last edited by mitocross; 11-18-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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  #85  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:50 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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The tangential port runner is not blocked by the swirl flap. The flap is about 20% smaller than the flow area of the runner to increase the air velocity, minimize the smooth boundary layer and maximize turbulence, 'Swirl'.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #86  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:04 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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I was refering to this explanation:
https://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum.../topics/194529
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  #87  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:07 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitocross View Post
Have you been playing with Carly? I am looking for advice if there is a parameter that might show something about the state of the injectors...
Cheers
I only open Carly up now about once every 2 months - just to check regens are happening at an acceptable range - and they have been.

One thing I have noted is the thermostat may be drifting slightly. When I had it replaced (about May 2016) I was getting a rock solid 90 degree coolant temp in all driving. Now its starting to come down a little (city and highway) and drifts between 85-89. So I gather its slowly losing its 'spring'. I'm keeping an eye on it - who knows - maybe it'll be another 2 years and need replacing again.

Otherwise all is ok for now. Getting good fuel economy, and regen frequency is fine (even with swirl flaps removed & capped)

Pete
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  #88  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:09 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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The flaps in E70 intake mainfold do close completly. I had them in my hands and you can also see it in the links I posted earlier from where I got the intake mainfold from. Maybe different principle on BMWs?
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  #89  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:49 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitocross View Post
The flaps in E70 intake mainfold do close completly. I had them in my hands and you can also see it in the links I posted earlier from where I got the intake mainfold from. Maybe different principle on BMWs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Swirl flap

Swirl flaps are small butterfly valves fitted to the intake manifold just before the cylinder head intake ports of many modern automotive engines, including those from Ford, Audi, BMW, Vauxhall and Alfa Romeo. The flaps are smaller than the intake runners and therefore allow air to pass around them even when "closed". The photo shows a cleaned swirl flap removed from the intake manifold of a BMW M47TU 2-litre diesel engine. The flap itself is made from stainless steel and secured to a spindle by two small Torx screws. The sealing O-ring and external actuating lever can be seen below the flap itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swirl_flap
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 11-18-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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  #90  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:49 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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The flaps can physically close the flow completely to the rectangular intake ports.

In that case all the flow goes to the circular intake ports.

There is also in between modes controlled by the dde based on load/rpm/temperature/egr/airflow.
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  #91  
Old 11-19-2018, 01:19 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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When I took my LCI flaps out they were in a mount that totally blocked the flow.
@Mitocross what engine do you have?
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  #92  
Old 11-19-2018, 02:07 AM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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We are talking about M57N2 engine variants in pre-LCI. I have a 2008 3.0sd. I think almost all LCIs have new N57 engines. Those have completly different intake mainfold with relocated flaps not being that much of danger anymore. Carbon buildup is most worrying thing with N57 intakes.
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  #93  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:25 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitocross View Post
We are talking about M57N2 engine variants in pre-LCI. I have a 2008 3.0sd. I think almost all LCIs have new N57 engines. Those have completly different intake mainfold with relocated flaps not being that much of danger anymore. Carbon buildup is most worrying thing with N57 intakes.
I have the M57tu2 but I'm reluctant to replace the flaps although I may put them back to check how it runs after inspecting them. If the problems fixed I will kiss goodbye to 500 and buy a new manifold.
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  #94  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:33 AM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNz0 View Post
I have the M57tu2 but I'm reluctant to replace the flaps although I may put them back to check how it runs after inspecting them. If the problems fixed I will kiss goodbye to 500 and buy a new manifold.
Cheaper at the link mitocross posted: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANSAUGBR%C3...53.m1438.l2649
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  #95  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:42 AM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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You have an LCI and have M57 engine instead of N57 inside? What date of production? Could you post your VIN please? I am curious to know.
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  #96  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:01 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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I would rather not post my vin but it is this one https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_2309
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  #97  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:19 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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I would rather not post my vin but it is this one https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=11_2309
OOhh! A sketchy history. Stolen?
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #98  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:32 AM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is offline
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OOhh! A sketchy history. Stolen?
Why does it matter that dude doesnt want to post his vin? Im not offering mine until sale time, why don't you post yours?

FYI, some states report ownership address with a VIN internet search. THAT is sketchy.

Last edited by dzlbimmer; 11-20-2018 at 07:34 AM.
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  #99  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:34 AM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Wait a minute. Do you have an E70 X5? I thought only very few early 2010 E70LCIs - US versions had old M57 engines.
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  #100  
Old 11-20-2018, 07:53 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
OOhh! A sketchy history. Stolen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mitocross View Post
Wait a minute. Do you have an E70 X5? I thought only very few early 2010 E70LCIs - US versions had old M57 engines.
2010 (2009 build) E60 535D but I am in the UK so EU build.
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