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  #1  
Old 02-06-2018, 07:52 PM
jpraveen jpraveen is offline
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SES light on! All cylinders misfire! Rough start

Hi All: First I want to thank you all for the great help advice on many threads - helps a lot.

So my car threw SES light, engine had rough start (sounds more like when you try to run in 4th gear at 20mph or so). I took it to Advance Auto they said all cylinders misfire based on code read by scanner. It runs fine no issues. Also no issues at idling after I run the car. But idling just after car started is an issue. Sometimes the stutter comes sometimes it doesn't. This night after I started the engine, I let it run at idle for few seconds and it was really rough. So I put in reverse gear to drive off parking, but it started blinking SES light and was still rough. I switch off and switch engine back on, no blinking light, and car runs fine.

Please note we had very cold weather in Jan - my car was covered with snow for 4-5days. The issue came a day later when I started the car.

2010 BMW 328i, 6 speed manual, 90k miles, replaced coils/spark plugs just 2 years ago.

What problems this could be ? Did my Indy shop do a poor job in coils/ spark plugs replacement ? or could this be something else ?

Please let me know your experience and advice. I am taking to shop tomorrow.

Last edited by jpraveen; 02-06-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2018, 01:41 PM
328i_ 328i_ is offline
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It sounds like you may be due for another change- at least with the plugs. Why take this issue to the shop? It's much cheaper to do it yourself.

I believe the rule is every 50K or so, half that if you're running performance parts.
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:39 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Blinking SES is normally the universal (any modern car) sign for major misfire.
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Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:48 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Misfire on more than one cylinder is likely not to be a problem with plugs or coils, which usually manifest on a single cylinder.

I'm thinking fuel; if it were old days I'd be looking at water in the gasoline, or a fuel pump problem.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:53 PM
jpraveen jpraveen is offline
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Thanks for feedback. The shop has 2 year warranty on parts and labor - on coils and plugs replaced less than 2 years/15k miles ago.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:56 PM
jpraveen jpraveen is offline
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Fuel: I always put top tier gasoline, was using shell/exxon. Recently less than a year ago I started using Costco, also a top tier gasoline.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:54 AM
WhoGotDaKeys WhoGotDaKeys is offline
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Disconnect, clean, and relighted your MAF sensor. All cylinders can be fuel, or air, issue. I had codes spewing because my air intake hose was loose enough to throw misfire codes. Probably just wasn’t right enough from previous work.


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Old 02-11-2018, 06:29 PM
jpraveen jpraveen is offline
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O2 sensor code now

Ok guys, so I took it to shop. They read misfire code on cylinders #1,#2,#3, and replaced all plugs/coils. Right after a test drive SES light came on again. Now they test, it is the O2 sensor code, saying failing O2 sensor on bank 1 for cylinders #1, #2, #3

now I am thinking the misfire itself could have been due to bad O2 sensor. I havent changed the O2 sensor yet. Shop quoted me $560 for this. I thought that was steep. They did mention $400 for parts itself and that it is tough to reach the bank1 sensor.

Any DIY on O2 sensor change would be appreciated. I wonder if it is just O2 sensor or any other issue.
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:52 PM
Chuckkkthomas Chuckkkthomas is offline
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https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...eplacement.htm


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Old 02-12-2018, 11:36 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpraveen View Post
...my car threw SES light, engine had rough start (sounds more like when you try to run in 4th gear at 20mph or so). I took it to Advance Auto they said all cylinders misfire based on code read by scanner. It runs fine no issues. Also no issues at idling after I run the car. But idling just after car started is an issue.

2010 BMW 328i, 6 speed manual, 90k miles, replaced coils/spark plugs just 2 years ago.
... I am taking to shop tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpraveen View Post
Ok guys, so I took it to shop. They read misfire code on cylinders #1,#2,#3, and replaced all plugs/coils. Right after a test drive SES light came on again. Now they test, it is the O2 sensor code, saying failing O2 sensor on bank 1 for cylinders #1, #2, #3....I havent changed the O2 sensor yet. Shop quoted me $560 for this. I thought that was steep. They did mention $400 for parts itself and that it is tough to reach the bank1 sensor...I wonder if it is just O2 sensor or any other issue.
I. How to Get Best Help on this Forum:
I want to help, NOT just criticize, but before we get to specific suggestions (III. BELOW) and how to properly diagnose your problem (II. Below), let's first examine the approach you have taken and perhaps learn some lessons on how NOT to try to solve a problem:

1) You first posted about the issue at 10:52 on a Tuesday evening (2/6) and ended your post with the statement that you were taking it to a shop the next morning. NO WAY to seek diagnostic help from this forum for obvious reasons.

2) Your initial post suggested that the car ran fine, in all respects once the engine had run for a minute or two, but that on cold start, the idle was rough.

3) Post 1 also stated that Advance Auto said "all cylinders misfire based on code read by scanner" -- there is NO single code for ALL cylinders misfiring. There IS a code P0300 for multiple cylinder misfire, and there are SEPARATE codes, P0301 thru P0306 related to individual cylinder misfire. You did NOT list any codes in your first post. We had no data to go on, and you were taking to the shop < 9 hours, so what did you expect from anyone on the forum -- sympathy? Well, you have mine, but meaningful assistance should be your goal.

Suggestion of a better approach to getting meaningful assistance from this forum:

(1) Get a good entry-level generic P-code reader, ~ $30 (Amazon) if you have a laptop. In your case, P-codes stored in the DME can be read by such a generic OBDII code reader, but in other cases, a dedicated BMW software may be required to read codes in OTHER modules than the DME.

(1A) Once you have learned how to use the entry level code reader (2 to 3 hours of familiarization, connection, reading parameters, saving a screen, etc.) then consider downloading, installing & using INPA or ISTA. That is a long-term solution, NOT something I am recommending for your current problem.

(1B) Knowledge is Power. If a shop figures you don't have a code reader, haven't already read the codes yourself, and therefore do NOT have evidence to cross-examine or question their assertions, a disreputable or un-knowledgeable shop may feel they can get away with BS. Many people, like the average guy at Advance who plugs a code reader into your OBDII port, can't be reasonably-expected to know exactly what a particular generic code means on every model of vehicle. So just get/ write down the code numbers & check them yourself, seeking help on this forum.

(2) When seeking help on this forum, ALWAYS report ALL codes, whether read by you, by a shop, by Advance, etc. listing ALL codes by EXACT CODE NUMBER, who read them, what scan tool or software was used to read them.
ALSO list ALL Code Details or Freeze Frame Data, which indicate such things as mileage when code saved in Error Memory, engine conditions (Temp, RPM, load, etc.) IF you can obtain that data with your scan tool. All that "stuff" is probably in your DME memory NOW, unless someone has cleared it. Why just guess at the problem instead of using the data stored in your DME, or giving it to someone who knows how to use it.

3) Give a full account of what the performance issue is, and when it occurs. You did a good job of that, describing what I interpret as a clear issue of "rough cold idle."

The real ART to problem-solving is Identification of the Problem, and Identification of the Cause or Causes of that Problem. The actual Solving or Resolution of the problem (by fixing a wiring fault or replacing a failed part) is easy. What you want to avoid is "fixing something that isn't broken" by replacing a perfectly good part only to see the problem remain ($$$). Understanding how things work is necessary to know what a particular code means, and applying your particular symptoms (rough idle on cold start) to the code readings to try to understand WHY the code is occurring.

II. Your Rough Cold Idle Issue:
In this case, a "misfire" can be anything from an intermittent malfunction of a coil, plug or its wiring, BUT it can also be an intermittent fueling problem (too lean or too rich) at one or more injectors. O2 sensors affect fueling as discussed below.

Your shop indicated you had misfires on cylinders 1, 2 & 3. These misfires were intermittent & random, based upon your description of how the car ran -- in other words, you NEVER had a complete and total shutdown of cylinders 1, 2 & 3 all at once -- your engine would have died if THAT occurred. Also, I cannot think of any fault that would totally shut down spark to cylinders 1-3 until the engine warmed, and then all OK.

There could be a fault in either the pre-cat or post-cat O2 sensor on bank 1 (separate exhaust manifold & cat for cylinders 1,2,3). That fault could be in either of the sensors themselves, in their respective wiring connectors, the wiring, or in the O2 sensor heater, its wiring, and its FUSE. Be aware that the Breather Heater, for which there is a recall on 2007 - 2011 N52KP engined 328i/xi models is on the SAME fuse circuit as the O2 sensors, and if that Breather Heater shorts out & burns out the fuse, you lose your O2 sensor heaters.

Why is that relevant in your case? Rough idle on Cold Start -- that's when O2 sensor heaters are needed, to allow the O2 sensor to function properly until the exhaust manifold and the sensor in the exhaust stream get heated enough.

There are MORE than a dozen P-codes for O2 sensor HEATER faults alone -- before you even get into O2 sensor signal faults. So the shop simply saying you have an O2 sensor fault is NOT helpful, and if that accurately represents the thought they applied to diagnosing the problem, then YOU need to learn how to diagnose a fault yourself, OR find another shop.

III. Solving Your Problem:
BEFORE you spend another $$$ on any "repairs" I would recommend the following:

1) Ask the shop to provide you with a screen print, or other printout, of any fault codes, fault detail, or freeze frame data they read.

2) Ask the shop if they cleared ANY of that data from your DME memory, and if so, WHAT exactly did they clear.

3) Ask the shop specifically if they read misfire codes P0301 (cylinder #1), P0302 (cyl.2) & P0303 (cyl.3). ALSO ask the shop for the EXACT P-code(s) they read related O2 sensors, or ANY OTHER P-codes. Ask them if any additional codes were there when they first read the misfire codes, and they just figured to address the misfire issue first, and then deal with the O2 sensor code(s), or if the O2 sensor code first was set AFTER replacing coils & plugs (unlikely but possible).

4) If you are currently unable to read the codes yourself, and don't have a trusted friend with a generic OBDII code reader who can do it for you, go back to Advance, and have them read current codes, AND THIS TIME, ask to see the screen for each such code, and write down ALL code numbers, exactly as they appear on the screen. Also ask the Advance guy if his scan tool will show Error Detail or Freeze Frame data to indicate (1) MILEAGE and (2) Engine Coolant Temp when the code was set.

5) Post FULL Codes & Code Detail obtained per above, and someone can suggest a proper next step. Also, update performance issues and any change since new coils/plugs. Do you still have exactly the same situation with rough idle ONLY on cold start and proper performance with warm engine?

Impatience seldom solves problems -- it often aggravates them
George
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2018, 08:59 AM
jpraveen jpraveen is offline
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@gbalthrop

I got the codes from advance auto:
P0131: Oxygen sensor circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 1
P112C: No DTC definition found. See service manual.

Performance: Problem with the vehicle still has not changed a bit. Still has rough idle when starting the car. I did notice if I press the gas pedal while in idle the roughness disappears.

I am really not a diy guy but willing to learn.
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