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Old 12-11-2019, 02:08 PM
smassey321 smassey321 is online now
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Amp hour options coding in CAS

It is time for battery #3 in my 09 diesel. My original battery was replaced with a 95 amp hour AGM 4 years ago which I coded this to 90ah_agm as that was the closest option. Being slightly undercharged probably contributed to the battery failing at 4 years old.

I was playing around today and I can now code 105ah_agm. But that and the 90ah_agm are the only options that don't error in NCSexpert. Most decent aftermarket batteries are 95ah. Dealers sell a 105ah correct? And what is a decent price at the dealer?

thanks

Last edited by smassey321; 12-11-2019 at 04:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2019, 02:56 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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If you search locally for a 95R/H9 battery...this will usually have the 105AH rating you're looking for. Don't forget to look at Sams Club and/or Costco if you're a member of either...the cost will usually be more reasonable. The Battery Plus chains also usually sell a 95R/H9 battery class size under the Duracell brand name. Then there's your national chains like Advanced Auto, Autozone, Pep Boys, O'Reilly's, NAPA etc.

East Penn, Exide, & Johnson Controls are the 3 major battery manufacturers that supply most battery brands in the US market...so you'll usually see similar specs amount all of them...if not the same, very similar.



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Last edited by QSilver7; 12-11-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:19 PM
smassey321 smassey321 is online now
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Originally Posted by QSilver7 View Post
If you search locally for a 95R/H9 battery...this will usually have the 105AH rating you're looking for. Don't forget to look at Sams Club and/or Costco if you're a member of either...the cost will usually be more reasonable. The Battery Plus chains also usually sell a 95R/H9 battery class size under the Duracell brand name. Then there's your national chains like Advanced Auto, Autozone, Pep Boys, O'Reilly's, NAPA etc.

East Penn, Exide, & Johnson Controls are the 3 major battery manufacturers that supply most battery brands in the US market...so you'll usually see similar specs amount all of them...if not the same, very similar.
[/CENTER]
Thanks. What are your thoughts on the amp hours of the one linked below? This is the preferred battery on the E90 forums. I did check for space and a H9 will fit. I just need to tap a new hole further to the left of the current mounting point.

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...89_13869_25697
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:56 PM
smassey321 smassey321 is online now
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I installed and registered the new 105AH AGM battery today. I got it at the BMW dealer for $200 which was similar to what auto parts stores were charging for an aftermarket H9. This is the battery they use to upgrade all the cars covered by the N63 campaign which must lower cost. The 105ah list price is less than the smaller AGMs.
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:01 PM
SPL15 SPL15 is offline
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A little tip to significantly extend the life of your new battery (especially if you live in cold weather climates) is to charge it once in a while w/ a GOOD charger, or as frequently as you're willing to do (daily would be ideal, but not feasible for most).

Lead acid batteries STRONGLY prefer sitting at 100% charged for the longest service & cycle life. This is inherent to the electrochemistry of all lead acid batteries, regardless of whether they're wet cell, AGM, gell cell, deep cycle or starting duty oriented.

The charging system of the E70 35d tends to keep the battery around 80 - 90% charged under typical driving conditions of 50 / 50 city & highway driving w/ semi-frequent half hour to hour long trips, where you'd need to be driving continuously for 3-4+ hours at a time, on a very regular basis to keep the battery closer to 90%-95% charged on a regular basis. This is just the nature of the beast with Lead Acid battery technology, where it takes 3 - 4+ hours to fully charge an 80% charged 105AH battery @ temps ABOVE 60 Deg F (once battery voltage hits 14.4 volts during charging from a moderate power source, it's only around 80% charged & takes HOURS to reach 100% charged for a 100AH battery, and can be MUCH longer if charged from a high amperage source that rapidly gets battery voltage to 14.4 volts). Automotive batteries chronically sit at an undercharged state by nature of how the system is designed due to cost reasons; anyone who tells ya different, doesn't know how these batteries work, nor how automotive charging systems work...

When temps dip below freezing, the situation is dire for the automotive starting battery... The electrolyte solution is increasingly prone to freezing, potentially causing mechanical damage of the plates, as the state of charge reduces in temps that are below freezing. The actual voltage needed to properly charge a lead acid battery rises as temperatures reduce below 75 deg F, where BMW tunes the alternator to still output the same 14.4 - 14.6 volts that is optimal for 75 deg F battery temperatures (regardless of albeit temp), where severe cold temps will lead to a battery state of charge that frequently dips down to the 50 - 60% mark (or lower if you primarily drive short distances), where internal damage of the plates starts to occur due to mechanical damage from partial / localized freezing due to striation of the electrolyte solution from frequent partial drain & charge cycles, as well as rapid sulfation if temps rise to above freezing while in a significantly discharged state.

Using an auxiliary charger as frequently as you're willing to tolerate, helps to keep the battery state of charge closer to 100%, which is ideal & can lead to useful AGM battery life of well over a decade on vehicles that locate the battery in the trunk or under the rear seat, away from the hot engine compartment (that causes a different set of issues that rapidly degrades lead acid batteries). My former DD E46 has a nearly 15 year old Odyssey PC1500 AGM that has always started the engine as if it were a 1.6 liter Honda engine (even in sub zero F temps); I keep this battery on a quality charger when stored, which is all but a few days out of the year these days. This battery has been in 2 different BMW's & one Cadillac over the past 15 years, where I keep it connected to a good quality charger.

Late 1990's & early 2000's Cadillacs & Oldsmobile derivatives based on Cadillac sedans had an awesome charging scheme where the alternator would increase voltage output to 15.8V & reduce it down to 13.8V depending on battery positive terminal temperature, where the battery was located under the rear seat away from the extreme conditions of the engine compartment. 8+ years of useful service life in cold climates for the relatively small factory wet cell lead acid battery used to start up a 4.4 Liter V8 Northstar wasn't at all uncommon, where folks on forums would report original batteries still functioning fine after 10+ years.

Last edited by SPL15; 12-13-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:46 AM
smassey321 smassey321 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL15 View Post
A little tip to significantly extend the life of your new battery (especially if you live in cold weather climates) is to charge it once in a while w/ a GOOD charger, or as frequently as you're willing to do (daily would be ideal, but not feasible for most).

Lead acid batteries STRONGLY prefer sitting at 100% charged for the longest service & cycle life. This is inherent to the electrochemistry of all lead acid batteries, regardless of whether they're wet cell, AGM, gell cell, deep cycle or starting duty oriented.

The charging system of the E70 35d tends to keep the battery around 80 - 90% charged under typical driving conditions of 50 / 50 city & highway driving w/ semi-frequent half hour to hour long trips, where you'd need to be driving continuously for 3-4+ hours at a time, on a very regular basis to keep the battery closer to 90%-95% charged on a regular basis. This is just the nature of the beast with Lead Acid battery technology, where it takes 3 - 4+ hours to fully charge an 80% charged 105AH battery @ temps ABOVE 60 Deg F (once battery voltage hits 14.4 volts during charging from a moderate power source, it's only around 80% charged & takes HOURS to reach 100% charged for a 100AH battery, and can be MUCH longer if charged from a high amperage source that rapidly gets battery voltage to 14.4 volts). Automotive batteries chronically sit at an undercharged state by nature of how the system is designed due to cost reasons; anyone who tells ya different, doesn't know how these batteries work, nor how automotive charging systems work...
Our diesels don't do a good job of charging their batteries at all. Low RPMs and high amperage loads don't help. The alternator is 220 amps which should be good enough but there are many weeks I don't drive on the highway. As soon as I got my new battery installed, I put it on my charger to top it off.

Before replacing the battery, I checked it's info in ISTA+. I was surprised at how much info was logged. One of the screens shows a range of % charged over the life of the battery. The majority of the life of my old battery was at 60-80% charge. ISTA+ also shows the last 5 charging percentages. Mine were going down 5% per day so I knew the battery was on its way out.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:53 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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No BMW will EVER fully 100% charge its AGM battery for the certain damage of the slightest overcharge. One ampere-hour of over charge electrolyzes 0.335 grams of electrolyte water to 400 cubic centimeters of gas that is vented and lost from an already starved plate battery built with the least amount of electrolyte possible to meet specifications.

I charge my X5 battery weekly with CTEK 4.3 MUS for 5 - 10 AH summer and winter respectively. Estimate AH by (maximum charging current (4 A.) X hours to done) X 1/2.
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:18 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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The battery will not be overcharged because the system limits voltage as it sees the acceptance current dropping. If you do a long trip, the alt will be putting out 13.8v which is fine to have on the battery forever as float standby, which is also used in ups systems.
This is the same exact thing the fancy ctek does....
If you have a voltage limited charger at around 13.8v you don't need the overpriced ctek.
Too much voltage at already high soc 80+ kills batteries not amps.
I've seen dead sla agm batteries that were taking 0.1a because the charger was doing 14+v (someone changed the float voltage)
Study lead acid charge cycles to learn why this can happen.

The only reason why the battery is never fully charged is because no matter how many amps you can offer, acceptance phase gives you at most around 85%. To get the rest requires hours and many of us drive at most an hour at a time.
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Last edited by robnitro; 12-14-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 12-22-2019, 12:18 AM
robinasu robinasu is offline
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I might add that ISTA wants you to leave the car shutdown for three hours after registration to let the battery voltage settle (I assume). I don't know the algorithm they are using and can't recall if they want you to top off the battery before installation, but they seem to be setting initial conditions for state of charge monitoring for alternator control. It would make sense you want to have the battery fully topped off at registration. State of charge by voltage measurement is only accurate at open voltage conditions. When the car is running and pulling variable current you cannot get an accurate state of charge by voltage, alone, so BMW most likely has a charge counting algorithm similar to a smartphone. If you have a 90Ah battery and car is coded for 105Ah that is not good, but I would be surprised if the car overcharges the battery dangerously as it probably has high voltage checks. It's probably more problematic on the low charge side- if car thinks there is 105Ah based on improper coding and you have 90Ah it may think the battery SOC is higher than it actually is and you chronically run the battery at a low state of charge, which is bad. The previous owner of my x5d had recently replaced the battery for the first time after 10 years. He or dealer did not recode or register the new 95Ah that replaced a 105Ah- glad I checked. With correct setup and quality battery the system should work well, but like all German cars you have to do what the factory says or you run into trouble. Also, there is a lot of variability of battery quality, which creates some noise to filter out. Use a good battery and setup the system right and you will be ok unless you got a manufacturing defect. Just my 2 cents - please correct me as needed.
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Old 12-22-2019, 04:36 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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Any overcharge is dangerously harmful.

One ampere-hour of overcharge electrolyzes 0.335 grams of electrolyte water to 400 cubic centimeters of oxygen and hydrogen gas that is vented and lost from an already starved plate battery that is built with the minimum possible amount of electrolyte to achieve rated capacity. (page 52 https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Acid-Bat.../dp/1466592222 )

There is no instant damage due to undercharge. Chronic undercharge will cause sulfation but which may be cured.
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(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 12-22-2019 at 04:39 AM.
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