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G30 (2017 - Current)
The next generation 5 Series, chassis code G30, arrives at dealers in February 2017. Looking like a scaled down 7 Series and riding on the CLAR platform, the new 5 Series will have a focus on lightweight and sporty performance. Engines options will come from BMW's new B family for the 530 and 540 and a turbocharged V8 for the M550i. Read more about the 2017 5 Series

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  #51  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:34 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is offline
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This was a sad situation for this customer to be in. Tesla really needs to improve its Customer Service before I'd consider one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...r_not_working/

For me, I still think a PHEV will be my car type of choice for the realistic future unless charging infrastructure makes radical improvements. I am not interested in frequent long charging stops on my road trips or needing to run into charging risks that may leave me stranded. As much as I like EVs we still do have the thorny environmental issue of battery waste to consider.

My 530e suites me extremely well.
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  #52  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:45 PM
FurryOne FurryOne is offline
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For me, Tesla's have zero personality, unlike my bimmers.
Having had multiple AT & MT BMWs, my Tesla 3 AWD was a breath of fresh air - literally. I don't need dozens of buttons to amuse me while I drive. Nor do I still miss a stick like I did when I went to an AT BMW. Teslas just let you enjoy the trip.

No place to charge? BS! I'm not exactly in a hotbed of EVs, yet there's at least 5 public places to charge within 5 miles of me, and Tesla Superchargers within 10 & 45 miles! Tesla has built-in Supercharger locations in their mapping, and they're about to add non-Tesla charger locations too.

Somebody mentioned poor build quality. Munro & Assoc. mentioned their build quality has improved to the level of other Mfrs over the years, and there was just an Asian report on the quality and tech of the Model 3 where even an Asian car Engineer said they couldn't do what Tesla is already doing.
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  #53  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:48 PM
Riley08s Riley08s is offline
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I like Tesla's. They seem like great cars, and they blow the doors off just about everything on the road. However, I clicked on this post thinking I was going to get some insight or interesting info on my 5, but instead I see "get rid of it!" Perhaps the Tesla forum would be a better place for praising Tesla's and dissing 5's?
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  #54  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:54 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is offline
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Originally Posted by FurryOne View Post
Having had multiple AT & MT BMWs, my Tesla 3 AWD was a breath of fresh air - literally. I don't need dozens of buttons to amuse me while I drive. Nor do I still miss a stick like I did when I went to an AT BMW. Teslas just let you enjoy the trip.

No place to charge? BS! I'm not exactly in a hotbed of EVs, yet there's at least 5 public places to charge within 5 miles of me, and Tesla Superchargers within 10 & 45 miles! Tesla has built-in Supercharger locations in their mapping, and they're about to add non-Tesla charger locations too.

Somebody mentioned poor build quality. Munro & Assoc. mentioned their build quality has improved to the level of other Mfrs over the years, and there was just an Asian report on the quality and tech of the Model 3 where even an Asian car Engineer said they couldn't do what Tesla is already doing.
Tesla has the best charging infrastructure in the US and there isn't much debate in that, but that doesn't make it a great choice for all drivers.

For instance, I live in a major city and park on the street. I was able to install a dedicated EVSE in front of my house to charge my PHEV (530e) and it works well, but since I can't make this into a private spot it could become an issue if I had a BEV. I see Teslas popping up a fair bit and no chargers outside likely due to installation cost and complexity and lack of dedicated parking. Of course, you could charge at a SuperCharger or other public charger, but I'm not interested in dedicating a few hours where needed to "top up" the car.

If you can charge at home dedicated and don't do a lot of road trips (or have a second ICE car or are OK renting a car) a BEV be an easy jump for you. But that's not true for all drivers in all situations.
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  #55  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:01 PM
Andyz4 Andyz4 is offline
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The length of this thread alone is proof that EV's are gaining ground exponentially. As a mechanic in another life, I have to admit that the modern ICE engine/transmission is almost ridiculously complex and sophisticated and yet still wildly inefficient with regard to heat and friction losses. Compare that to a modern electric motor spinning quickly and efficiently up to speed. Having said all that, I may never buy a Tesla because, to quote Jerry Seinfeld, I prefer things that explode. But I love that Tesla and others are pushing the EV technology forward. One thing the Model 3 needs though, is a front grille. Just looks naked.
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  #56  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:03 PM
FurryOne FurryOne is offline
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
If you can charge at home dedicated and don't do a lot of road trips (or have a second ICE car or are OK renting a car) a BEV be an easy jump for you. But that's not true for all drivers in all situations.
Until EVs become more common you'll often run into problem if you live in an apartment or a complex. The UK is the worst situation for this kind of problem, and they are trying to solve it. The US is undergoing a large charging station buildout which should help.
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  #57  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:06 PM
FurryOne FurryOne is offline
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One thing the Model 3 needs though, is a front grille. Just looks naked.
How about this?
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  #58  
Old 02-18-2020, 06:55 PM
OnlyGerman OnlyGerman is offline
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Lame. Another loyal bimmer owner lost to Tesla.
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  #59  
Old 02-18-2020, 07:20 PM
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MUSCLEBOY MUSCLEBOY is offline
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Had four 5 series including a G30. 540i, and a 650I convertable before that. Really loved driving all of them! But it's time for something new... and the family got hooked - the teslas are fantastic cool cars - if you are on the fence thinking of trying one just go for it!! Anyway, here's 4 new Teslas parked at my house!

Attachment 881519
Congratulations!! I assume the husband, wife and two kids ha? Is your electric bill crazy or not? I do say, it is my opinion only, so please do not take it wrong, it is a great car the Tesla. I only wish the interior had more to offer. The dash was so bland. The outside looks cool, but i think they could have done better.

I decided not to plow my money into a Tesla as i was on the fence. I decided to go with a Torch Red......you guessed it 2020 C8 Corvette......around $80k plus tax. I have a 2005 BMW that i have been working on since last March, almost a year now. I replaced many engine parts including radiator hoses, PCV, CCV and the complete suspension.....all myself. Its almost done. The car has 168,000 miles, and i hope to get another 30-50k out of it as my daily driver through crap weather and good too. I keep my 2008 Cadillac CTS garaged and only have been driving it this past year while working on the BMW, but it will go back to garage storage as a backup car once the 2005 530i is back on the road. The C8 will be the Sunday fun car, and not driven very much. It is a trophy car that i will drink beer and look at....and drive mildly.

Thanks for sharing. Hope you like my angle too. Muscleboy.
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  #60  
Old 02-18-2020, 07:46 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Riddle me this: Why isn't every Uber, Lyft and delivery van in NYC electric? That is "the" perfect environment where EV's would make a drastic improvement in emissions and noise. In those insane traffic jams (you know the ones - you only move about 3 car lengths with every green light, and tourist idiots still block the box) wouldn't EV's be a much better alternative than petrol or diesel motors? If Telsas are so cracking good, why don't the people who drive for a living, in the most perfect environment for EV's, drive them en masse? Why do I get a Camby or Suburban every time I hail an Uber or Lyft in the city?
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  #61  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:18 PM
giant head giant head is offline
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I would not keep the Testa to long because replacement of the battery pack is probably a third or quarter of the cars cost.
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  #62  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:21 PM
giminey giminey is offline
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Love our new Tesla, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bertola View Post
Had four 5 series including a G30. 540i, and a 650I convertable before that. Really loved driving all of them! But it's time for something new... and the family got hooked - the teslas are fantastic cool cars - if you are on the fence thinking of trying one just go for it!! Anyway, here's 4 new Teslas parked at my house!

Attachment 881519
Same for me as Bertola. Switched out our 5 series for a Tesla. It is such a sweet car. Loved my beemer. Hate to say it. Love that Tesla more. Truly is a game changer.
Dumping my low miles diesel pick up, too, before the Tesla truck hits the market. My high end pick up is just about to be obsolete.
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  #63  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:43 PM
yellowbird172 yellowbird172 is offline
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Pros & cons

As serial BMW owner since 1982, I was curious & got to test drive a Tesla Model S last month.

What an experience....it out accelerates a Porsche Carrera but looks like a Toyota Camry (a mid sized sedan here in Australia). Finish & fit was good but with the instruments & controls, I missed the BMW ergonomics. Charging would be an issue for me ......few charging stations & half my life the car would be parked in the street. Maybe a long extension cable!

I note many European cities are planning for EVs only - no ICE or even PHEVs. Might help save the planet or does it simply move carbon production from exhaust pipe to the power generator?
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  #64  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:33 PM
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A8540TDI A8540TDI is offline
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I'm similar to bertola, having recently sold both my much loved e39 540i and e90 335d and replaced them with a Tesla Model 3 Stealth Performance. I took a while for me to warm up to the idea of getting a BEV but, have no regrets. I've closely inspected my Tesla and cannot find any area where it has mismatched or wide panel gaps, shoddy paintwork or bad interior finish. Yes, it is different, but the tech works well and the performance is exceptional! I have not completely abandoned BMW, still running a G12 740i of 2019 vintage and keeping my old M Roadster for when I'm nostalgic, but I have to say the Model 3SP continues to keep me grinning every time I drive it. No BMW I've driven, including some pretty quick M versions comes anywhere close to the response of the 3SP in cut and thrust traffic. Unsuspecting passengers gasp in surprise when experiencing the thrust from that instant torque. Bear in mind, at $50k my 3SP cost the same as a similarly equipped 330ix, a car with a 4 cylinder engine and mundane performance compared to the 3SP's which is at supercar levels at speeds below 100mph. With way lower fuel and service costs, I'm not surprised that in the USA the Model 3 has outsold the 3-series, Audi A4 and MB C-series combined, it is simply a great buy in the class. Hopefully BMW will get their act together and bring affordable and desirable BEV's to supplement their excellent ICE cars or they risk winding up like Saab.
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  #65  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:27 PM
e4603 e4603 is offline
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Just want to say "Congrats" to OP.
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  #66  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:35 PM
germans germans is offline
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I think the range thing is an issue but not a major one for most people. For a typical family in the suburbs there is usually a two car garage and one of the cars other than the Tesla is likely a gas car.

The person buying the Tesla is not likely to have bought it if they plan on driving long distances beyond the cars range for work. So the Tesla will most likely work just fine for their work commute.

However, for longer vacation drives, the car may not cut it so that is what the other car in the garage is for or a rental car.
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  #67  
Old 02-19-2020, 04:35 AM
DBV DBV is offline
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n/m

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  #68  
Old 02-19-2020, 06:58 AM
RyanC883 RyanC883 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertola View Post
Had four 5 series including a G30. 540i, and a 650I convertable before that. Really loved driving all of them! But it's time for something new... and the family got hooked - the teslas are fantastic cool cars - if you are on the fence thinking of trying one just go for it!! Anyway, here's 4 new Teslas parked at my house!

Attachment 881519
The ONLY issue I have with the Tesla's is that they no longer have sunroofs that open, and use "fake" leather. My brother has a 2014 S. It's fantastic, real leather and sunroof that opens. The amount of space in it is amazing. If they had a sunroof that opened and real leather (not PVC chemical fake stuff) I'd be likely to get one.

My only other small grip is that the Model 3 does not have a front dash display. Just bizzare looking to me. I want a front dash and the mid tablet looking dash!
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  #69  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:01 AM
RyanC883 RyanC883 is offline
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Originally Posted by A8540TDI View Post
I'm similar to bertola, having recently sold both my much loved e39 540i and e90 335d and replaced them with a Tesla Model 3 Stealth Performance. I took a while for me to warm up to the idea of getting a BEV but, have no regrets. I've closely inspected my Tesla and cannot find any area where it has mismatched or wide panel gaps, shoddy paintwork or bad interior finish. Yes, it is different, but the tech works well and the performance is exceptional! I have not completely abandoned BMW, still running a G12 740i of 2019 vintage and keeping my old M Roadster for when I'm nostalgic, but I have to say the Model 3SP continues to keep me grinning every time I drive it. No BMW I've driven, including some pretty quick M versions comes anywhere close to the response of the 3SP in cut and thrust traffic. Unsuspecting passengers gasp in surprise when experiencing the thrust from that instant torque. Bear in mind, at $50k my 3SP cost the same as a similarly equipped 330ix, a car with a 4 cylinder engine and mundane performance compared to the 3SP's which is at supercar levels at speeds below 100mph. With way lower fuel and service costs, I'm not surprised that in the USA the Model 3 has outsold the 3-series, Audi A4 and MB C-series combined, it is simply a great buy in the class. Hopefully BMW will get their act together and bring affordable and desirable BEV's to supplement their excellent ICE cars or they risk winding up like Saab.
BMW really needs to come out with a 3 series that competes with the Model 3.

BTW: how did you configure the model 3 to keep it at 50K with the performance model? Or is the 50K post tax-incentive? Share the secrets!

The other issue, however, is that Tesla has horrid leasing terms compared to BMW. So if you lease, your likely to lean 3 series. I think Tesla becomes more competitive--price wise-- when there is competition. It's coming soon.
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Old 02-19-2020, 07:11 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is offline
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Lame. Another loyal bimmer owner...
No such thing as a "loyal bimmer owner." Smart folk at this price-point gravitate towards acceleration, cornering, utility, and total cost of ownership (TCO). Greenwashing is just a nice-to-have, especially since oil fell to $60/barrel.

BMW is losing the acceleration and cornering game to Telsa (among others), and they've lost the TCO game to pretty much anybody with a better warranty than BMWNA - which is pretty much every other foreign competitor in North America, plus many offerings by FCA and (especially) Ford. Then there's the new Corvette Z06 & Z01 pair, which smoke even the BMW Alpinas in all three categories.

I'm driving a '16 BMW, and still here talking about it. But I bought a non-BMW in 2018. And I will likely buy another non-BMW in 2020. I've already become something other than a "loyal BMW owner." Frankly, I don't think they exist. I'd believe in Bigfoot in 2020 before I believe in the "loyal bimmer owner" in 2020.

They'd better figure it out in Woodcliff Lake.

I have often told my kids that "if your target market is wealthy stupid people, then you won't be in business very long." That's because the wealthy tend not to be stupid, and the stupid tend not to stay wealthy. That simple fact makes one's cost of new-customer acquisition stratospheric.

Honestly, the biggest, fastest thing BMWNA could do to create the "loyal bimmer owner" is to cut the price of the OE extended warranties in half. That would, in turn drive systemic changes from engineering, through sales (fewer leases), all the way through to the repair floor.

Last edited by guyinacar; 02-20-2020 at 08:30 AM.
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  #71  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:21 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
No such thing as a "loyal bimmer owner." Smart folk at this price-point gravitate towards acceleration, cornering, utility, and total cost of ownership (TCO). Greenwashing is just a nice-to-have, especially since oil fell to $60/barrel.

BMW is losing the acceleration and cornering game to Telsa (among others), and they've lost the TCO game to pretty much anybody with a better warranty than BMWNA - which is pretty much every other foreign competitor in North America, plus many offerings by FCA and (especially) Ford. Then there's the new Corvette Z06 & Z01 pair, which smoke even the BMW Alpinas in all three categories.

I'm driving a '16 BMW, and still here talking about it. But I bought a non-BMW in 2018. And I will likely buy another non-BMW in 2020. I've already become something other than a "loyal BMW owner." Frankly, I don't think they exist. I'd believe in Bigfoot in 2020 before I believe in the "loyal bimmer owner" in 2020.

They'd better figure it out in Woodcliff Lake.

I have often told my kids that "if your target market is wealthy stupid people, then you won't be in business very long." That's because the wealthy tend not to be stupid, and the stupid tend not to stay wealthy. That simple fact makes one's cost of new-customer acquisition stratospheric.

Honestly, the biggest, fastest thing BMWNA could do to create the "loyal bimmer owner" is to cut the price of the OE extended warranties in half. That would, in turn drive systemic changes from engineering, through sales (fewer leases), all the way through to the repair floor.
Excellent post. We don't owe loyalty to BMW. BMW owes loyalty to us. We are the customers and the company needs to please us.

Lexus has partially proved that a luxury car with lots of high tech can still be reliable (I say partially as Lexus does tend to trail the Germans in high tech). I think your suggestion is a good one...if the extended warranties started costing BMW money, it would require its engineers to figure out how to make the cars more reliable.

Forums like this tend to be filled with "loyal" customers. The fact that so many of us have complained bitterly about the new, ugly, hideous grills and that BMW ignores them tells me that BMW doesn't care about its "loyal" customers...it would rather chase new ones.

So we can chase new car companies as well.
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  #72  
Old 02-19-2020, 07:30 AM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
No such thing as a "loyal bimmer owner." Smart folk at this price-point gravitate towards acceleration, cornering, utility, and total cost of ownership (TCO). Greenwashing is just a nice-to-have, especially since oil fell to $60/barrel.

BMW is losing the acceleration and cornering game to Telsa (among others), and they've lost the TCO game to pretty much anybody with a better warranty than BMWNA - which is pretty much every other foreign competitor in North America, plus many offerings by FCA and (especially) Ford. Then there's the new Corvette Z06 & Z01 pair, which smoke even the BMW Alpinas in all three categories.

I'm driving a '16 BMW, and still here talking about it. But I bought a non-BMW in 2018. And I will likely buy another non-BMW in 2020. I've already become something other than a "loyal BMW owner." Frankly, I don't think they exist. I'd believe in Bigfoot in 2020 before I believe in the "loyal bimmer owner" in 2020.

They'd better figure it out in Woodcliff Lake.

I have often told my kids that "if your target market is wealthy stupid people, then you won't be in business very long." That's because the wealthy tend not to be stupid, and the stupid tend not to stay wealthy. That simple fact makes one's cost of new-customer acquisition stratospheric.

Honestly, the biggest, fastest thing BMWNA could do to create the "loyal bimmer owner" is to cut the price of the OE extended warranties in half. That would, in turn drive systemic changes from engineering, through sales (fewer leases), all the way through to the repair floor.
I'd also wager that a large portion of BMW's customer base (and this goes for Mercedes as well) are buyers who are coming into the brand for image. Some of those are driven by their work realities as they need to have some respectable when interacting with clients and some is just people wanting to appear as if they are punching higher then they are. A good point here is the number of very wealthy people driving very reliable cars with low TCOs.

Tesla has become the car to be seen in and that's not something BMW can easily overcome. But I think at a minimum they need to, like you said cut OE Extended Warranty costs to help bolster their reliability image and retain owners for longer, and they need to really step up the luxury they are offering.

They don't have it easy in a world that is increasingly becoming hostile to cars in general.
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  #73  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:26 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is offline
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
...people wanting to appear as if they are punching higher than they are. A good point here is the number of very wealthy people driving very reliable cars with low TCOs...
Yep. Those are UAWs vs. PAWs, according to the Millionaire Next Door by Stanley & Danko. At least for cars, it's every bit as true today as it was back in 1996. With the advent of today's "Instagram model" and "influencers," the authors' findings might even be more relevant now.

Last edited by guyinacar; 02-19-2020 at 08:45 AM.
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  #74  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:19 PM
giminey giminey is offline
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Originally Posted by yellowbird172 View Post
As serial BMW owner since 1982, I was curious & got to test drive a Tesla Model S last month.

What an experience....it out accelerates a Porsche Carrera but looks like a Toyota Camry (a mid sized sedan here in Australia). Finish & fit was good but with the instruments & controls, I missed the BMW ergonomics. Charging would be an issue for me ......few charging stations & half my life the car would be parked in the street. Maybe a long extension cable!

I note many European cities are planning for EVs only - no ICE or even PHEVs. Might help save the planet or does it simply move carbon production from exhaust pipe to the power generator?
I agree with many of the other posters here. I owned my beemers for very specific reasons. And loved them for the look, the feel, the driving experience, the stick and the third pedal. Never, in fact, have I ever owned anything other than a manual until this Tesla. Even my diesel pickup has a stick and a clutch that wants to push me out the back window. I have always loved the control and the connection, and the ability to manipulate at a very basic level.

It wasnít until I actually sat in, and drove, the Tesla till I fell in love. And it was instantaneous. I instantly realized all my old attachments and affinities were old school. We are on the cusp of a paradigm shift. Whoís still driving a horse and buggy? There are certainly still features and feel in my beemer I love. Just like Iím occasionally nostalgic for my high school girlfriend and our summers at the beach. Ahh, those golden hued days of yesteryear...

As for carbon shift, I agree, it is an important consideration. I am very fortunate that the shift for me is from the tailpipe to the solar cell fabrication facility, and that for my neighbors itís primarily to wind and hydro power. Some places it is still a switch to the coal plant. Those plants are in denial of the power paradigm shift. Letís get the gasoline out of our garages, and the coal plants out of our back yards, counties and countrysides. Acid rain and smog I will never feel nostalgic for, despite the sometimes incredible sunsets they contribute to.

Overall our infrastructure will change to meet the new demand. There are still occasional hitching posts out front of old time saloons. Soon too there will be occasional petrol stops. The electrical charging options will soon be as ubiquitous as the current pumping station.

Iíll miss my beemer. Until I get that i8. :-D
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  #75  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:03 PM
guyinacar guyinacar is offline
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I feel about a Tesla the way I feel about a pontoon boat. Both are more fun when it's somebody else's "investment" - you participate with friends (and participate rarely, and only by invitation).
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