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E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:02 PM
H F H F is offline
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Oh man Oh man.. total bmw boner Man i wish i could persuade you in to At least poly rear bushings

that is literally what i did to the 540, just used Bs Hd's and all poly all around.. its on rails..

your car is going to be on rails.. your going to need to invest in cross drilled rotors and sport pins all the way around.. The car is going to be faster

Oh.. and something i never thought id say (considering Ive done my own alignments on different shops hunter racks through out the years)

consider a factory alignment, its steep $ but i think the overall result is worth it on a brand new suspension

I mean i never had a bad alignment my tires always ware good, drives strait.. but when i let the factory do it, It came out a whole-nother level

zeroed across the board, Just a thought from when i was where your at
Well ,, actually to be honest. During my search for the part nubmers . I did look at them , two piece ones . And did think ,, burning is gonna love this ...
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...5-E53-E60.html

Okay ,, my thoughts ..
The rear swing arms don't take the beating as the front control arms do . Evidence is in my total mileage . And on second bushings in the front , And originals on the swing arms don't look too bad, besides a little separation on the sleeve and outer circumference ..

So i would expect at least 100,000 on the lemfs ... and I do think there is much more flex in the oem's vs power flex bushings .

In the fronts , there is more than one directional force that I think wears out the center sleeve on power flex bushings , to where oem's are more forgiving , but they dont last ..

The rear swing arms basically is only one directional force ,, up and down . Has less force than up and down left ,right directions , as in the fronts ..

My problem with poly is separation from the or rusty sleeve ,, ob longing of the center hole and the dolphin mating calls .. Then having to re grease them bastards ... Also ive read about poly bushings cracking due to their hardness . And my buddy with a sand rail confirms this .. Tells me he breaks them quite often .... ... But to be devils advocate look at the oems , they crack and separate and have a short life span ..

The second part of my thinking on the rears is would it be a bad thing for the poly to lets say slip some as it rides rotates on the center sleeve .. With a two piece i posted looks like that will happen and next thing you know ill have have squealing coming out of my rear end driving me batty .. LOL !

So ,,convince me ,, if you can .. lol ,, Im willing to listen ...

A dealer alignment is in order . Ive only had one alignment and she drive's straight as an arrow at 100 mph .. Done at the dealer .. And I don't have wear issues . Alls I do,, is off wheel side to side rotate . My tires have worn evenly for 10 years ...

So yes i agree ,,dealer alignment is at another level ..


Here is a vid i saw on poly swing arm bushings , not sure I like it ,,, lets talk about it ..

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Old 09-23-2018, 03:07 PM
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The ball joints , and swing arm bushing .
I think this is what my rear suspension looks like as well. That looks like worn way beyond specs. I'm surprised you didn't feel the rear sway outward when hitting slight bumps in turns.

I have begun collecting all parts for complete overhaul as well.

Won't go with KW V3 though as they are beyond my budget.

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  #28  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:21 PM
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That link you posted.... that link leads to race car...

your right though.. after another 100k it's not really going to matter..

bmws get that ass wobble @ top speed... (with miles) the poly rear makes it first day solid every day from then on

I haven't had any dolphin calls, (*maybe years ago only when it got wet, when they where brand new) Or have I had to re-grease and ive never even seen ob-longed urethane center holes.. (lol and that comment dates back to 1996.. HONDA DAYS)

I was brought up with a bunch of drivers.. dirt, track, woods... you name it.. 2 stroke, 4 stroke, woods, ice, sand.. Riding is riding.. doesnt matter what your ripping...

IM a driver dude.. Ive drive everything and anything.. when it comes to my personal preference of my own equipment factoring in my whole life being a maintenance guy (having to fix every body elese's problem) The first time i dropped the extra on the polyurethane *energy suspension I knew from that point on.. that every bushing or wear item on anything i was working on.. was going to get that little upgrade..

I didnt understand that upgrade till years later, when i worked for PolyOne.. it wasnt really till then that i took a little deeper dive in to polymers and plastics, Which encompasses rubbers


regardless.. your doing the right thing.. your car is going to feel amazing... I cant wait to i get to this a 2nd time around.. The 540 and 550 are almost the same damn car..


Im literally repeating the same steps i did with the 540, but now on the 550.. some little tweaks some little changes.. but two v8's glutten for punishment?
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  #29  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by oldiegoodie View Post

Won't go with KW V3 though as they are beyond my budget.

Bilstien Heavy Dutys... All day long brahh



had me hooked on my e30 many moons ago..

Hd's for life All of them.. e30, e36, e39, 383, e60

keep the factory feel.. but add a performance daily feel to the mix
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by oldiegoodie View Post
I think this is what my rear suspension looks like as well. That looks like worn way beyond specs. I'm surprised you didn't feel the rear sway outward when hitting slight bumps in turns.

I have begun collecting all parts for complete overhaul as well.

Won't go with KW V3 though as they are beyond my budget.

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Nope ,, i was amazed at how she handles with 4 struts leaking , and those rear ball joints .

The boots obviously were gone ,, but,, the ball joint itself was still good . There was no play , just not as tight as lets say new ones ..

She felt really cushie though ,, like I was driving a lexus lol !
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
That link you posted.... that link leads to race car...

your right though.. after another 100k it's not really going to matter..

bmws get that ass wobble @ top speed... (with miles) the poly rear makes it first day solid every day from then on

I haven't had any dolphin calls, (*maybe years ago only when it got wet, when they where brand new) Or have I had to re-grease and ive never even seen ob-longed urethane center holes.. (lol and that comment dates back to 1996.. HONDA DAYS)

I was brought up with a bunch of drivers.. dirt, track, woods... you name it.. 2 stroke, 4 stroke, woods, ice, sand.. Riding is riding.. doesnt matter what your ripping...

IM a driver dude.. Ive drive everything and anything.. when it comes to my personal preference of my own equipment factoring in my whole life being a maintenance guy (having to fix every body elese's problem) The first time i dropped the extra on the polyurethane *energy suspension I knew from that point on.. that every bushing or wear item on anything i was working on.. was going to get that little upgrade..

I didnt understand that upgrade till years later, when i worked for PolyOne.. it wasnt really till then that i took a little deeper dive in to polymers and plastics, Which encompasses rubbers


regardless.. your doing the right thing.. your car is going to feel amazing... I cant wait to i get to this a 2nd time around.. The 540 and 550 are almost the same damn car..


Im literally repeating the same steps i did with the 540, but now on the 550.. some little tweaks some little changes.. but two v8's glutten for punishment?
Send me a link for the swing arm poly's you're talking about ,, and ill take a look at them ..
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:03 PM
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https://powerflexusa.com/BMWE605SeriesSaloon03-10.aspx

front numbers 1 and 2

rear 11, 12,13
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  #33  
Old 09-23-2018, 04:04 PM
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I just looked at this site yesterday ...
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:14 PM
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I didn't see one for the swing arm on that site unless I missed it .
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:36 PM
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I had a little bit of a problem in trying to get that integral link bearing out . So I had to modify the receiver cup . Due to the carrier housing getting in the way of the receiver cup squaring up against the wheel bearing carrier . To pull the bearing out straight . So this is what I did to get passed this little obstacle .. Used a die grinder , hack saw a zaws all and a file ..

In the third picture you can see the receiver cup was cocked and hitting the carrier . And wasn't allowing me to press the bushing out ..

Also there wasn't enough space between the top outer edge of the bearing and thickness of the cup ...

Picture 8 and 9 you see what the fix did and the last picture .. once modified , the receiver cup sat on the carrier nice and flat and I got that bad bear outta there ..
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  #36  
Old 09-23-2018, 04:37 PM
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I didn't see one for the swing arm on that site unless I missed it .
If you look at the schematic, it lists all locations for the bushings with reference numbers for the product. I have been to this site few times as well.
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2018, 04:40 PM
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I had a little bit of a problem in trying to get that integral link bearing out . So I had to modify the receiver cup . Due to the housing getting in the way of the receiver cup squaring up against the wheel bearing carrier . To pull the bearing out straight . So this is what I did to get passed this little obstacle ..
Looks like you're getting around unforeseen obstacles like a true hacker!
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:48 PM
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Nope ,, i was amazed at how she handles with 4 struts leaking , and those rear ball joints .

The boots obviously were gone ,, but,, the ball joint itself was still good . There was no play , just not as tight as lets say new ones ..

She felt really cushie though ,, like I was driving a lexus lol !
The last statement is exactly what I'm trying to describe as rubbery feel or slight swing.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:52 PM
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bmws get that ass wobble @ top speed... (with miles) the poly rear makes it first day solid every day from then on
Are you 100% on this statement? I want to get rid of the wobble and swing and if those polyurethane bushings improve the ride, I'm going to order them soon. I'm still going with mono ball front control arm bushings though!
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:42 PM
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https://powerflexusa.com/BMWE605SeriesSaloon03-10.aspx

front numbers 1 and 2

rear 11, 12,13
https://powerflexusa.com/howtochoose.aspx
Quote:
About Powerflex Bushings and Durometers
Powerflex Bushings Are Available In Two Great
Ranges To Suit Your Exact Requirements

Powerflex Street (Yellow: 70A or Purple: 80A) - Replacement Performance Suspension Bushings

Performance
Durability
Safety

Powerflex Black Series (Race: 95A) - Ultimate Performance Bushings Offering The Most Precise And Accurate Alignment

Designed For The Track
Ready To Race

*Powerflex Lifetime Warranty Available On All Bushings

Powerflex polyurethane bushings are designed to decrease the amount of deflection in your car's suspension which improves handling, driver feedback, and tire wear. We use our own premium polyurethane formulation to provide minimal NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) and increased longevity over stock rubber bushings.

Powerflex is a truly engineered product, not just a copy of the stock part in a different material. Redesigned to address common factory failure parts, Powerflex bushings allow the articulation required to maintain control of movement for increased performance while far outlasting the stock parts they are replacing. Additionally, Powerflex Engineering Line products for some fitments include unique features like polyurethane monoballs and offset geometry to provide ultimate performance without the harshness of metallic race parts. Powerflex polyurethane engine/drivetrain mounts and reinforcements are available for some fitments to reduce movement for better throttle response and more power to the wheels.

Bushings are produced in one of three durometers Yellow (70A, approximately 25% stiffer than stock), Purple (80A, approximately 30% stiffer than stock), and Black (95A, approximately 80% stiffer than stock). Unlike other brands using only one urethane grade for all applications, Powerflex design engineers choose the correct hardness to allow for the specific movement or rigidity required for each location while minimizing unwanted NVH.

Powerflex urethane hardness is standardized per fitment and location. This takes out the guess work, so when you choose Street, you know our design engineers have selected the optimal polyurethane hardness for your specific application. Select parts are also available in an optional stiffer urethane (Black Series) for track and autocross performance where NVH is less important.

Powerflex bushing offerings are very thorough, and they are sold per location to fit each customer's specific needs. An automobile's bushings and mounts wear at different rates making "complete-kit" bushing sets unnecessary for most buyers. Replacing only the weak links in your car's suspension is a great way to tighten handling without stressing the budget.

Powerflex copper-based grease is supplied with every bushing set and is the only lubrication we recommend - standard "anti-seize" or white lithium grease traditionally used with urethane bushings are not as effective. Bushings will rarely need re-lubing due to the unique grooves and knurls cast into the material to hold the lubricant.
So ,, in your experience ,, black is the way to go with 80% stiffer ride ? Which obviously increases rigidity and less deflection .. Which is a plus gassing out of the apex in the snakes..

I do like the lifetime warranty ..

Also ,, Im thinking ,, with mono balls up front over the stock bushings Ive increased rigidity .Not sure what that percentage is but my guess would be at least 80% stiffer .. Which would mean I could be unbalanced between front and rear on a rigidity scale .. Between swing arm and and front control arm .. Hmmm , this has me thinking ..

And to be completely honest , I dont really like the front side oem replacement bushing on the swing arm . its different than the original and I think its a weak design . https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lagerung-Le...9WeDZt&vxp=mtr

I think on the integral link or swing arm mono ball bearing I'm good with ... And I expect it to be as firm as any new ball joint ...
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:07 PM
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https://powerflexusa.com/howtochoose.aspx


So ,, in your experience ,, black is the way to go with 80% stiffer ride ? Which obviously increases rigidity and less deflection .. Which is a plus gassing out of the apex ..

I do like the lifetime warranty ..

Also ,, Im thinking ,, with mono balls up front over the stock bushings Ive increased rigidity .Not sure what that percentage is but my guess would be at least 80% stiffer .. Which would mean I could be unbalanced between front and rear on a rigidity scale .. Between swing arm and and front control arm .. Hmmm , this has me thinking ..

And to be completely honest , I dont really like the front side oem bushing on the swing arm ,, I think its a weak design . https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lagerung-Le...9WeDZt&vxp=mtr

I think on the integral link or swing arm mono ball bearing I'm good with ... And I expect it to be as firm as any new ball joint ...
In my understanding, rigidity at this point has been increased to 100% because it's a completely solid connection. There will be absolutely no deflection at the mono ball bushing, if I've understood everything, I read on the mono ball bushings, correctly. With that said, the only viable choice, again in my opinion, would be track bushings (black).
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:00 AM
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street is purple.. black is race

Ive used both.. and ive mixed and matched both..

purple inner upper and lower on dront,

black front control arms purple rear control arm inner..

Im not trying to sell you guys anything you dont want, but im telling you that a lot or the internet hype about the sounds and blah blah blah.. will be forgotten after you come out of the first set of hard turns,



that ball joint install in the rear is known for breaking when pushing the new ball joint back it.. destroying the carrier
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:55 AM
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Ive wondered about that myself actually . Reckon its not suitable for race conditions vs street ...
Read about this once. M division back in the day; when they were perfecting the e60 for the M5 version decided against using ARS. If i remember correctly the guy in charge was quoted saying "we dont believe in gimmicks". Sounds alien that somebody from M division FROM BMW saying that about their own technology, but back then M-division was given a lot of freedom with their cars (including engines, think V10). But back then with cars like the e46 M3, it was all about purity. My car has ARS, and i love it, i wouldn't buy an e60 without it. But i guess i do understand where that guy was getting what he said from. ARS does remove a bit of the feel, even though its been proven very effective on multiple tests vs non-ARS. Good old maniac M-division days.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:35 AM
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New technology not tested in a production car. I can understand why they omitted it.

Has anyone considered poly subframe bushings? I'm considering doing this to the wagon in the rear to reduce roll.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:14 AM
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street is purple.. black is race

Ive used both.. and ive mixed and matched both..

purple inner upper and lower on dront,

black front control arms purple rear control arm inner..

Im not trying to sell you guys anything you dont want, but im telling you that a lot or the internet hype about the sounds and blah blah blah.. will be forgotten after you come out of the first set of hard turns,



that ball joint install in the rear is known for breaking when pushing the new ball joint back it.. destroying the carrier
I know your sold on poly , and can appreciate your diligence and persistence ..

One thing is ,, Im not ,, is a key board troll . I fully research things before I make a decision .. Gotcha on the control arms , but , I'm looking at focusing on the swing arm bushings .

According to my long time buddy who has a twin turbo LS1 sand rail . he breaks them all the time on his swing arms and says they do squeak . But not a big deal cause his rail is wickedly loud and you cant hear it ..

But the forces on his swing arms are tremendous with 900 HP doing wheelies and getting sideways in the sand .. So ill be no where near those generated forces carving the back canyon roads ..

So im re thinking this .. because i don't like one of the two replacement Lemf bushings .
and I want to get more rigidity from the rear swing arm , to have equal rigidity between the front thrust arm and rear swing arm .. So I'm beginning to contemplate poly swing arm bushings ...
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:19 AM
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Read about this once. M division back in the day; when they were perfecting the e60 for the M5 version decided against using ARS. If i remember correctly the guy in charge was quoted saying "we dont believe in gimmicks". Sounds alien that somebody from M division FROM BMW saying that about their own technology, but back then M-division was given a lot of freedom with their cars (including engines, think V10). But back then with cars like the e46 M3, it was all about purity. My car has ARS, and i love it, i wouldn't buy an e60 without it. But i guess i do understand where that guy was getting what he said from. ARS does remove a bit of the feel, even though its been proven very effective on multiple tests vs non-ARS. Good old maniac M-division days.
Ya,, they didnt want to stray from a traditional sway bar .. I love my ARS and think its the best option our cars have . I couldn't imagine not having it ..
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:45 AM
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I know your sold on poly , and can appreciate your diligence and persistence ..

One thing is ,, Im not ,, is a key board troll . I fully research things before I make a decision .. Gotcha on the control arms , but , I'm looking at focusing on the swing arm bushings .

According to my long time buddy who has a twin turbo LS1 sand rail . he breaks them all the time on his swing arms and says they do squeak . But not a big deal cause his rail is wickedly loud and you cant hear it ..

But the forces on his swing arms are tremendous with 900 HP doing wheelies and getting sideways in the sand .. So ill be no where near those generated forces carving the back canyon roads ..

So im re thinking this .. because i don't like one of the two replacement Lemf bushings .
and I want to get more rigidity from the rear swing arm , to have equal rigidity between the front thrust arm and rear swing arm .. So I'm beginning to contemplate poly swing arm bushings ...
Considering that there aren't many options available, I would give a shot to poly bushings in swing arms. They are relatively affordable and I would imagine, much better than stock bushings.

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Old 09-24-2018, 03:01 PM
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New technology not tested in a production car. I can understand why they omitted it.

Has anyone considered poly subframe bushings? I'm considering doing this to the wagon in the rear to reduce roll.
yeah The old school M division of bmw were the elite

back in the 80's and 90's when bmw and audi came to trans-am race'n



as far as breaking bushings @ 900hp... Ive got nothing i can add to that.. Id imaging that your friend is probably telling you the truth

Im more of a very high speed daily racer I do 100+ 120+ every day, the roads i travel are regular 85mph crushing


I mean i can pass people @ 100 every morning to work, vans trucks pos cars you name it.. (which is scary in it self.. because i know my performance level and i see/pass cars that i know are about to fall apart and they are doing 90?!)


Im gonna quit with the sale on that though, all i can tell you is that 100k later on the inside trailing arms of the e39 (the same thing about) purple bushings are tight, no noise or any kind of play.. ball joints are still tight, on the outter upper arms.. if i have to replace a bushing, Ill go with purple again

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  #49  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:38 PM
oldiegoodie oldiegoodie is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 988
Mein Auto: 2007 550i 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt_ View Post
New technology not tested in a production car. I can understand why they omitted it.

Has anyone considered poly subframe bushings? I'm considering doing this to the wagon in the rear to reduce roll.
If you check newer M cars, none of them have Active Roll Stability, be it F10 M5, F90 M5, F80 M3, F82 M4 and so on. In my opinion, ARS is a compromise between comfort and sporty suspension aspiration. If you take a look at the diameter of ARS equipped sway bars, they are much thinner than those in conventional setups. Keep in mind that ARS hardware adds substantial weight as well.


-oldiegoodie

Last edited by oldiegoodie; 09-24-2018 at 07:17 PM.
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  #50  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:57 PM
oldiegoodie oldiegoodie is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Earth
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 988
Mein Auto: 2007 550i 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
yeah The old school M division of bmw were the elite

back in the 80's and 90's when bmw and audi came to trans-am race'n



as far as breaking bushings @ 900hp... Ive got nothing i can add to that.. Id imaging that your friend is probably telling you the truth

Im more of a very high speed daily racer I do 100+ 120+ every day, the roads i travel are regular 85mph crushing


I mean i can pass people @ 100 every morning to work, vans trucks pos cars you name it.. (which is scary in it self.. because i know my performance level and i see/pass cars that i know are about to fall apart and they are doing 90?!)


Im gonna quit with the sale on that though, all i can tell you is that 100k later on the inside trailing arms of the e39 (the same thing about) purple bushings are tight, no noise or any kind of play.. ball joints are still tight, on the outter upper arms.. if i have to replace a bushing, Ill go with purple again

How easy are the polyurethane bushings to install? I would assume that they won't require as much press force as OEM or mono ball bushings. Correct?

I'm thinking of doing some poly upgrades on my 5er, but before I do I need to know more facts and information.


-oldiegoodie
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